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Author Topic: Missouri  (Read 39304 times)

MikieTimT

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #200 on: January 17, 2022, 12:03:07 PM »

https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/politics/2022/01/11/buc-ees-travel-center-headed-springfield-council-debates-incentive/9124629002/

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Once built, the superstore will be located just northeast of Springfield at the intersection of I-44 and Mulroy Road. Beard said the chain hopes to break ground sometime this year and finish construction 12 to 15 months after that.

Looks like I'll be making a trip down to Springfield when this opens :biggrin:.

Should make Springfield's tourism industry even stronger.  This likely puts a nail in anything around Joplin for Buc-ees for the foreseeable future, though, unless they are wanting several stores in a general area for ease of distribution purposes.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #201 on: January 17, 2022, 01:06:22 PM »

Does Bucee's have something against Oklahoma? They put a location in Springfield before OKC? They expand to Arkansas and now Missouri before Oklahoma?  :pan:
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Scott5114

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #202 on: January 17, 2022, 01:39:29 PM »

Does Bucee's have something against Oklahoma? They put a location in Springfield before OKC? They expand to Arkansas and now Missouri before Oklahoma?  :pan:

Who wants to compete against OnCue and QuikTrip if they don't have to?

Personally, I'm fine with there not being any Buc-ee's around here. They seem like the sort of place that's great when you're on a road trip and looking for a place to stop and stretch your legs, but would be a pain in the ass if it was your everyday fill-up station.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 01:42:11 PM by Scott5114 »
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #203 on: January 17, 2022, 01:49:45 PM »

Does Bucee's have something against Oklahoma? They put a location in Springfield before OKC? They expand to Arkansas and now Missouri before Oklahoma?  :pan:

Who wants to compete against OnCue and QuikTrip if they don't have to?

Personally, I'm fine with there not being any Buc-ee's around here. They seem like the sort of place that's great when you're on a road trip and looking for a place to stop and stretch your legs, but would be a pain in the ass if it was your everyday fill-up station.
I'd love for a couple around the metro just to be able to stop and grab some goodies every once in awhile.
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MikieTimT

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #204 on: January 17, 2022, 02:20:32 PM »

Does Bucee's have something against Oklahoma? They put a location in Springfield before OKC? They expand to Arkansas and now Missouri before Oklahoma?  :pan:

Who wants to compete against OnCue and QuikTrip if they don't have to?

Personally, I'm fine with there not being any Buc-ee's around here. They seem like the sort of place that's great when you're on a road trip and looking for a place to stop and stretch your legs, but would be a pain in the ass if it was your everyday fill-up station.

Ingress and egress tends to be a hassle around them.  That's why they have to do so much roadwork around them as part of the project.
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ozarkman417

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #205 on: January 19, 2022, 08:35:39 PM »

If they are going to build a Buc-ee's in Missouri, why not put it in Gotham City?  :bigass:

https://www.instagram.com/dam_up_bucees/ <-- an Instagram account arguing against the Springfield Buc-ee's construction

I've never been to a Buc-ee's, so I'm not sure what my city has to gain from this.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #206 on: January 20, 2022, 12:00:38 AM »

If they are going to build a Buc-ee's in Missouri, why not put it in Gotham City?  :bigass:

https://www.instagram.com/dam_up_bucees/ <-- an Instagram account arguing against the Springfield Buc-ee's construction

I've never been to a Buc-ee's, so I'm not sure what my city has to gain from this.
You mean the million dollars of tax revenue? I mean what kind of Mickey Mouse logic are you using the question what your city has to gain from it in order to justify it being built? Pft.
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ozarkman417

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #207 on: January 20, 2022, 04:39:38 PM »

Of course there's tax revenue to be had.. eventually. It's gonna take some time (not sure how long) to create net positive revenue for the city as a result of it spending $8.5 million that include tax incentives/reimbursement, as well as improvements to the area. Additionally, the 150 or so new employees will be bringing in money to the Springfield metro from outside. 88% of Buc-ee's customers come from >20 miles away.

The reason why I said I wasn't sure how much is to be gained was not about economics (although clearly I poorly worded my statement). Instead, I was referring to the establishment itself. I'm simply not sure if Buc-ee's is worth all the hype or if its just another overrated establishment.. though I suppose in the end that is just a matter of opinion, and I'll be finding that out in the somewhat near future provided everything goes as planned.

An additional note regarding its location is that some, but certainly not all, Branson-bound travellers will pass very near the store. If it were located on the west side of US 65, it would simply be out of the way. For the reasons I've listed, I'm personally looking forward to seeing this new growth, though as seen in my previous post, there is a sizable amount of those around here that clearly oppose it strongly.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 04:48:43 PM by ozarkman417 »
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skluth

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #208 on: February 16, 2022, 06:21:32 PM »

MoDOT is taking another look at the I-70/US 54 interchange at Kingdom City:  https://www.modot.org/KingdomCityInterchange
MODOT is now taking public comment for those interested.
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edwaleni

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #209 on: February 16, 2022, 10:59:28 PM »

Of course there's tax revenue to be had.. eventually. It's gonna take some time (not sure how long) to create net positive revenue for the city as a result of it spending $8.5 million that include tax incentives/reimbursement, as well as improvements to the area. Additionally, the 150 or so new employees will be bringing in money to the Springfield metro from outside. 88% of Buc-ee's customers come from >20 miles away.

The reason why I said I wasn't sure how much is to be gained was not about economics (although clearly I poorly worded my statement). Instead, I was referring to the establishment itself. I'm simply not sure if Buc-ee's is worth all the hype or if its just another overrated establishment.. though I suppose in the end that is just a matter of opinion, and I'll be finding that out in the somewhat near future provided everything goes as planned.

An additional note regarding its location is that some, but certainly not all, Branson-bound travellers will pass very near the store. If it were located on the west side of US 65, it would simply be out of the way. For the reasons I've listed, I'm personally looking forward to seeing this new growth, though as seen in my previous post, there is a sizable amount of those around here that clearly oppose it strongly.

The average Bucees increases the sales tax revenue for the locals from 15-20%.  The average Bucees costs $17 million to build. Some 80% of Bucees revenue is classified as "out of town" or a "pass through".

Bucees growth has been done on borrowed money. The founder of Bucees admits they have a lot of loans funding their expansion. He admitted that as long as interest rates stay low (they aren't in the near term) he will keep going.

So when his cost of funds goes up, I would expect them to slow down on the build outs.

What should people look for in future Bucees? After 100 gas pumps and a massive store, what else is there? EV chargers. It gives people a reason to come inside while their EV "fills up".

Margins on retail gas is around 1.8%. Margins on retail goods is around 25-30%. Margins on Bucee branded anything is closer to 40%.

By making it more destination like, people are inclined to purchase Bucees stuff (tshirts, bumper magnets, etc)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 11:01:29 PM by edwaleni »
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skluth

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #210 on: February 17, 2022, 12:36:11 PM »

The average Bucees increases the sales tax revenue for the locals from 15-20%.  The average Bucees costs $17 million to build. Some 80% of Bucees revenue is classified as "out of town" or a "pass through".
Not arguing for or against Bucees. Just pointing out that increasing the local sales tax percentage is highly dependent on the size of the tax district and useless without knowing the actual amount. Increasing the sales tax revenue 15-20% is a big deal if Springfield. It's a lot less impressive in a small town.
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MikieTimT

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #211 on: February 17, 2022, 12:37:42 PM »

The average Bucees increases the sales tax revenue for the locals from 15-20%.  The average Bucees costs $17 million to build. Some 80% of Bucees revenue is classified as "out of town" or a "pass through".
Not arguing for or against Bucees. Just pointing out that increasing the local sales tax percentage is highly dependent on the size of the tax district and useless without knowing the actual amount. Increasing the sales tax revenue 15-20% is a big deal if Springfield. It's a lot less impressive in a small town.

How many small towns has Bucees set up in?
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mvak36

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #212 on: February 17, 2022, 12:55:47 PM »

https://www.modot.org/node/25137

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Kansas City, Mo. Ė The Missouri Department of Transportation is hosting two, in-person public meetings as part of an Interstate 70 Environmental Study Re-evaluation between The Paseo to U.S. 40. The previous study was completed nearly five years ago and conditions have likely changed so public input is necessary. A National Environmental Policy Act re-evaluation of the project area is needed to gain a current understanding of those changes. The re-evaluation is scheduled to be complete by the end of March 2023.

Project Website: https://www.modot.org/improvei70kc

There is a project tentatively scheduled for Fiscal Year 2024 in the STIP (Job 4I3448) for corridor improvements from 27th St to US40. This would fix the Jackson curve and other bridges along the stretch.
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edwaleni

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #213 on: February 17, 2022, 05:14:54 PM »

The average Bucees increases the sales tax revenue for the locals from 15-20%.  The average Bucees costs $17 million to build. Some 80% of Bucees revenue is classified as "out of town" or a "pass through".
Not arguing for or against Bucees. Just pointing out that increasing the local sales tax percentage is highly dependent on the size of the tax district and useless without knowing the actual amount. Increasing the sales tax revenue 15-20% is a big deal if Springfield. It's a lot less impressive in a small town.

Totally agree. Springfield is too large to have that big of an impact.  That is an average based on their current footprint.

With such a large contribution, there must be some small to medium size towns that host a Bucees.
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rte66man

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #214 on: February 18, 2022, 10:08:45 AM »

The average Bucees increases the sales tax revenue for the locals from 15-20%.  The average Bucees costs $17 million to build. Some 80% of Bucees revenue is classified as "out of town" or a "pass through".
Not arguing for or against Bucees. Just pointing out that increasing the local sales tax percentage is highly dependent on the size of the tax district and useless without knowing the actual amount. Increasing the sales tax revenue 15-20% is a big deal if Springfield. It's a lot less impressive in a small town.

Totally agree. Springfield is too large to have that big of an impact.  That is an average based on their current footprint.

With such a large contribution, there must be some small to medium size towns that host a Bucees.

Madisonville, TX comes to mind although I do not know if their Bucees is with the city limits
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ozarkman417

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #215 on: March 29, 2022, 07:10:56 PM »

Based on the following news article, MoDOT is trying for a grant to widen I-44 through Springfield.
https://www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/local-news-local-news/springfield-city-council-members-consider-i-44-expansion/
Update on this effort: https://sgfcitizen.org/economy-growth/springfield-transportation/i-44-expansion-gets-county-support/
Should this come to pass, I-44 between MO-13 (Kansas Expressway) and US-65 (Schoolcraft Freeway) will be six-laned. Very much needed, given the amount of truck traffic that travels between those two exits, which serve as the fastest route between KC and Memphis.
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mvak36

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #216 on: March 29, 2022, 07:53:46 PM »

Based on the following news article, MoDOT is trying for a grant to widen I-44 through Springfield.
https://www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/local-news-local-news/springfield-city-council-members-consider-i-44-expansion/
Update on this effort: https://sgfcitizen.org/economy-growth/springfield-transportation/i-44-expansion-gets-county-support/
Should this come to pass, I-44 between MO-13 (Kansas Expressway) and US-65 (Schoolcraft Freeway) will be six-laned. Very much needed, given the amount of truck traffic that travels between those two exits, which serve as the fastest route between KC and Memphis.
I found this for the INFRA Grant Application: https://www.ozarkstransportation.org/fix-i-44-infrastructure-for-rebuilding-america-infra-grant-application
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Revive 755

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #217 on: March 29, 2022, 10:31:32 PM »

I found this for the INFRA Grant Application: https://www.ozarkstransportation.org/fix-i-44-infrastructure-for-rebuilding-america-infra-grant-application

There's a link on the site for a study to redo the MO 13/I-44 interchange:  https://www.ozarkstransportation.org/north13study.  The alternatives shown:

1) The DDI gets widened, the Norton Road intersection goes to a T-intersection with the stem to the west, and a new T-intersection is added near the current Farm Road 413/Wentchell Road intersection to provide access to the east.

2) The current DDI is converted to a conventional diamond with all but NB to EB, NB to WB, and SB to WB having dual turn lanes.  The Norton Road intersection is removed, and a new four way intersection is constructed north of the the curve on MO 13.

3) The current DDI is replaced with a SPUI.

4) A new connection is built between MO 13 and I-44 west of the current interchange.  The I-44 is a modified semi-directional T, a half interchange is provided with current MO 13.  The existing DDI appears to have some sort of ramp modifications.  Could be C-D roadways between the two interchanges. 

5) SB to EB gets a flyover.  Norton Road is grade separated from MO 13, with access provided by way of a pair of right-in/right out intersections north of Norton Road.

I am guessing the following alternatives are intended to be combined with some of the interchange alternatives.

6) The MO 13/Farm Road 94 intersection becomes a J-turn.

7) The MO 13/Farm Road intersection is converted to a right-in/right out only on both sides of MO 13.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #218 on: March 30, 2022, 03:45:31 PM »

Are DDIs falling out of favor or are they something that canít handle larger traffic loads?
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Scott5114

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #219 on: March 30, 2022, 04:10:33 PM »

Are DDIs falling out of favor or are they something that canít handle larger traffic loads?

DDIs are still gaining traction (Oklahoma has a bunch of them proposed) but it sounds like this particular interchange has a number of characteristics that are causing it to not perform as well as it should. One problem that can happen with a DDI is that it processes traffic so quickly that it ends up causing backups at adjacent intersections (like the one at Norton Road), the tailback of which then back up into the DDI. In addition it seems like this one has a lot of left-turning (SB to EB) traffic, which a SPUI might be able to handle better.

I imagine the best solution might be Alternative 1 since that would remove some of the conflict points at Norton Road. What I would do is go a little bit further and close the Norton Road intersection entirely and route all of those movements through a full intersection where the Alternative 1 map shows access to Farm Road 143.
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SkyPesos

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #220 on: March 30, 2022, 04:31:53 PM »

Are DDIs falling out of favor or are they something that canít handle larger traffic loads?
Nope, MoDOT is still building new ones, including an interesting partial one w/ grade seperation at one of the crossings of the sides at MO 364/94 and Muegge Rd that Iím keeping up with.

Though if MoDOT proceeds with removing the I-44 and MO 13 DDI, I think itís the second DDI in the US thatís been removed, after one in Utah (forgot the exact interchange).
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 04:34:40 PM by SkyPesos »
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ozarkman417

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #221 on: March 30, 2022, 04:46:52 PM »

Are DDIs falling out of favor or are they something that canít handle larger traffic loads?
Nope, MoDOT is still building new ones, including an interesting partial one w/ grade seperation at one of the crossings of the sides at MO 364/94 and Muegge Rd that Iím keeping up with.

Though if MoDOT proceeds with removing the I-44 and MO 13 DDI, I think itís the second DDI in the US thatís been removed, after one in Utah (forgot the exact interchange).
While MoDOT is still building new DDIs, there are more roundabout-based interchanges being built by the agency than anything else.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 04:52:52 PM by ozarkman417 »
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Stephane Dumas

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #222 on: April 01, 2022, 07:10:02 PM »

Alternative #4 will be more useful for long distance truckers and travellers but it might be more costly as well.
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Revive 755

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #223 on: April 02, 2022, 10:35:02 PM »

Alternative #4 will be more useful for long distance truckers and travellers but it might be more costly as well.

I think Alternate 4 is not going to be chosen, but is the best for future considerations.  The last few times I've driven MO 13 the road seemed to get busy enough approaching Springfield to warrant eventual upgrading to a full freeway.
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mvak36

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Re: Missouri
« Reply #224 on: April 26, 2022, 10:05:10 AM »

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article260666987.html

Quote
Kansas City leaders say itís finally time to build a park atop Interstate 670 in the heart of downtown. Local and federal officials gathered Friday to announce official plans for a $160 million deck over downtownís south loop. Few details about financing were provided, but officials said a $5 million donation from the Loews Kansas City Hotel will kickstart design and planning efforts. That phase is expected to take between 12 and 18 months, according to a news release from the city.

...

City manager Brian Platt said heís not sure how much Kansas City would need to pitch in for the project ó in fact, the total cost is not yet known. But he said the city is backed by federal, state and local stakeholder support. Platt said the city has applied for a $25 million RAISE grant from the U.S. Department of Transportation.
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