Twice yesterday on my bike ride, I got into a left turn lane, signaled left (as required by law) and waited for a gap in traffic to make my turn–exactly as I would in my car, the only difference being an outstretched left arm serving as a turn signal inst

[cl94]

It's illegal in New York, but a lot of people do it, especially in Western New York. Person who waves is partially liable and waving/blindly following a wave on a road test is grounds for immediate failure. Blocking the box is illegal as well, though that is also rarely followed/enforced around here.

Typically, I never wave people out and I never stop in an intersection, much to the annoyance of other drivers. Only time I will wave is in a merge situation if there is heavy traffic and a person in motion at a similar speed is attempting to merge into my lane due to a blockage/lane drop.

[SD Mapman]

People do it all the time in South Dakota (yours truly among them). I haven't seen any accidents yet.

I also get waved when I'm running; it's kinda nice.

I have no idea if it's illegal here. Nobody said anything in Driver's Ed, and no one cares.

[empirestate]

The worst is the left turn across opposing lanes on a four lane road, where one lane is clear and the car on the inside lane does the wave, and you have no idea if somebody is flying down the outside lane that will hit you.

Heck, I've seen the accident happen for that very reason. Four-lane road, somebody on the inside did the wave, little Geo Metro starts to turn left and gets spun around 360 into the grass by somebody coming through on the outside. I saw it unfolding, knew exactly what was going to happen, and then it happened.

So for that reason, I never do the wave in that situation, and I almost* never accept it. Usually I'll either pretend not to see the guy waving at me, or if I really have to communicate my intention not to proceed, the gesture I've adopted is to take both hands off the wheel in a hands-up, "surrender" type of pose.

(*Once in a great while, I will accept the wave once I've seen that all conflicting lanes have yielded to me, but that usually happens when congestion is such that it really becomes their duty not to block the box at that point.)

Another scenario where I dislike "the wave" is if I'm waiting to enter a main road from a side street, and someone on the main road is waiting to turn left into my street. Once traffic has cleared for their left turn, sometimes they'll "wave me out" in front of them instead of taking their turn ahead of me, as is their right-of-way. Problem is, their visibility of oncoming traffic isn't necessarily the same as mine; they may know they're clear to turn off but I can't yet see whether I'm clear to pull out–and by the time I realize they're not making the turn I assumed they were, it has become too late for me to make mine anyway. (And on top of that, my vision is such that I need to allow a bigger buffer of time when pulling out: I don't judge distance quite as well as the average person so I err on the side of caution; my wife is always saying, "You totally could have made that.")

This used to happen to me a lot in Pittsburgh, not so much around New York (even Upstate). It's particularly infuriating when they're the only car I even need to wait for; there's tons of space behind them, and if they'd just hurry up and get on with their movement, we could all just go about our day with no problem!

[admtrap]

Exact situation happened to me yesterday.  The oncoming SUV in the #1 lane 'waved' me through into a shopping center parking lot.  But because of his size, I could not see traffic in the #2 or #3 lanes.  He had room to proceed past the driveway I wanted to turn into, but refused out of misguided politeness.  I refused to turn out of a desire to live (the limit in the area is 45, and people regularly do 10 over in the far right trying to bypass slowed traffic on the left.)

If he'd just moved instead of trying to be polite, I could have made it easily (turns out there was no traffic in the #2 or #3 lane).  Instead he delayed me several minutes for the next traffic break (and delayed himself not-at-all). 

I don't mind people trying to be nice, but they need to be situationally aware first.

[jeffandnicole]

People do it all the time in South Dakota (yours truly among them). I haven't seen any accidents yet.

I also get waved when I'm running; it's kinda nice.

I have no idea if it's illegal here. Nobody said anything in Driver's Ed, and no one cares.

It's illegal.  Basically, one is supposed to remain stopped at a stop sign until other traffic has passed.  A motorist does not have any legal right to suddenly decide that someone can go through a stop sign with other traffic present.

And just because you don't hear about accidents caused by this doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  Unless you're informed of every accident and everyone's story of how it happened, of course you're not going to hear about it!

[davewiecking]

http://wtop.com/anne-arundel-county/2015/08/police-angry-md-motorist-beats-cyclist-throws-bike-tire-into-woods/
Similar to what's being discussed-bicyclist waved motorist around, which escalated into bicycle being hit, bicyclist assaulted, and (according to the crack reporting) "bicycle tire" being thrown into the woods.

[Brandon]

I've had it happen to me where I've been the victim of such a wave.

I was in the left turn lane on Western Avenue in Chicago, slowing down for a red light when I saw a car all of the sudden pop out from between two vehicles, too close to stop at the speed I was traveling (about 5 mph).  I hit her front bumper and tore it partially off.  We both got out an looked at it, and she then proceeded to scream at me, "you was speedin'!".  I tried to explain to her that I obviously could not be speeding as I had to slow down for a red light.  It was in vain.  Well, a City of Chicago police office showed up and looked at the accident.  He asked me my story, and then asked her hers.  As it turned out, the drivers of the vehicles she came out from in front of waved her out so she could make a left onto Western Avenue.  He said she went as soon as they waved her.  The police officer then turned to her and said, "lady, you know you're supposed to look first."  Her jaw hit the pavement about that time.  Needless to say, she got a ticket for it, and her insurance picked up my repairs 100%.

I do not wave people out at all.  If I stop before an intersection, or a driveway, as far as I'm concerned, you're on your own to stop and look.

[1995hoo]

I don't usually wave people out.  That said, on my morning commute there's a section of roadway where I'm routinely waiting for a long light.  It's three lanes wide in my direction, and if the queue ends at the edge of a driveway when I get there, I'll often stop at the other end.  There's usually a few people that turn left into the driveway from the other direction, so if I see that nobody's approaching on the other two lanes, I'll wave them through.

I largely feel similar. I never block the box at an intersection, regardless of whether there's a traffic light or stop sign or nothing at all–even if I don't have a stop sign, I see no reason to pull out into the box because I don't see the point in blocking people on the other street even if nobody's there when I pull up. (Of course, I've been burned once or twice when a large dump truck or the like came along, pulled out to turn, but then stopped in front of me due to traffic coming the other way.) Some people become absolutely infuriated if you don't block the box, though. I've been honked at, given the finger, and seen people pull around so they can cut back in front of me to block the box. I don't understand that attitude. (Being given the finger makes me all the less likely to move, of course.)

Yesterday I accidentally blocked a busy driveway exiting a Metrorail parking garage when the guy in front of me, who I thought was going to pull all the way up, instead left almost a full carlength in front of him when he stopped. I felt bad for blocking the guy exiting the garage but felt better when he ultimately pulled in behind me instead of going two lanes over. (I use that garage regularly and I know how hard it is to exit there....so I use a different exit!)

Sunday afternoon Ms1995hoo got annoyed when I waved a guy out of a gas station. He wanted to go the same direction we were going and I was in the right thru lane, but there was a right-turn-only lane to my right. When I waved him out, I couldn't see the car coming down the turn lane behind me. Ms1995hoo thought I should have gone because of that car. Of course he saw the car coming and waited. But you know what, the delay was a whole ten seconds, so who cares. I think there is a very big difference between waving someone out to go the same way as you versus waving someone out to cross several lanes of traffic to turn left (which in this case was not an option due to a median).

I've declined to go multiple times when people have waved me across to make a left turn near our neighborhood. In every case it's been because I could see traffic coming in the other two lanes. When that happens, I usually point to the other lane and give a "what can I do" gesture. Never gotten an annoyed reaction from anyone in the manner some other people in this thread have described.

[Brandon]

http://wtop.com/anne-arundel-county/2015/08/police-angry-md-motorist-beats-cyclist-throws-bike-tire-into-woods/
Similar to what's being discussed-bicyclist waved motorist around, which escalated into bicycle being hit, bicyclist assaulted, and (according to the crack reporting) "bicycle tire" being thrown into the woods.

Neither one of those is in the right, and both deserve tickets, and one should be arrested for the beating.

[Rothman]

This used to happen to me a lot in Pittsburgh, not so much around New York (even Upstate). It's particularly infuriating when they're the only car I even need to wait for; there's tons of space behind them, and if they'd just hurry up and get on with their movement, we could all just go about our day with no problem!

Exact thing happened to me just a couple of days ago where I was waiting my turn to turn left from a side street onto Central Avenue in Albany.  Someone wanting to turn left into the side street from Central waved me out instead of just turning left like he should have.

It is indeed frustrating the time wasted by all the attempts to communicate by hand gesture.

[empirestate]

It is indeed frustrating the time wasted by all the attempts to communicate by hand gesture.

That's a problem at multi-way stop signs, too, whether people are waving you on and disrupting the right-of-way order, or even when there's genuine confusion as to whose turn it is.

[Mrt90]

This used to happen to me a lot in Pittsburgh, not so much around New York (even Upstate). It's particularly infuriating when they're the only car I even need to wait for; there's tons of space behind them, and if they'd just hurry up and get on with their movement, we could all just go about our day with no problem!

Exact thing happened to me just a couple of days ago where I was waiting my turn to turn left from a side street onto Central Avenue in Albany.  Someone wanting to turn left into the side street from Central waved me out instead of just turning left like he should have.

It is indeed frustrating the time wasted by all the attempts to communicate by hand gesture.

I live on a side street that is just off of a main street, and when I return home I typically have to make a left turn from the main street onto that side street.  If there is a car parked near the corner on the side of the street that I'm turning into (or even worse, both sides) and someone is trying to make a left from that side street onto the Main Street, I stop and waive them to go.  I either do that, or I turn onto my street and stop behind a parked car and wait for the guy making a left out of my street to go, because there is no room to go through.  I don't know if this describes your situations but that is why I sometime stop on the main street and waive out a car from a side street.

[SidS1045]

In addition to everything else that's been said about this practice, it also ticks me off that someone will stop, holding up a line of drivers all of whom have the right-of-way, because they think they're being "polite" by letting someone else (who doesn't have the right-of-way) turn left or pass a STOP sign when the intersection isn't clear.  That someone has no regard for all of those drivers behind him/her, but only sees what's in front of them.

My motto:  "Give up the right-of-way when it's ONLY yours to give up."

[jakeroot]

My motto:  "Give up the right-of-way when it's ONLY yours to give up."

Yeah, but what's the point then? The only reason you'd give someone else the right-of-way is because traffic is shit and you feel bad for them. If you're the only one there, they can just pull out after you.

Because I don't think I've mentioned it yet, if there's a car pulling out of a side-street or driveway, I will make a gap. If they want to go, they are certainly welcome to (but I won't wave). If they do, usually I'll motion for them to go if I see that it's clear. However, I won't stop well before the next car in my lane to let someone out. I will only leave a gap if moving forward would block the car from pulling out.

[sdmichael]

NEVER... I REPEAT NEVER "wave" someone out, EVER. You aren't in control of the situation, you don't control traffic. STOP pretending to be a traffic cop. I'm missing 15 minutes of my life as I cannot remember it at all plus feeling in part of my face because of some asshole that was "just being nice" and waved someone else out in front of me. NEVER do it.

[Pete from Boston]

NEVER... I REPEAT NEVER "wave" someone out, EVER. You aren't in control of the situation, you don't control traffic. STOP pretending to be a traffic cop. I'm missing 15 minutes of my life as I cannot remember it at all plus feeling in part of my face because of some asshole that was "just being nice" and waved someone else out in front of me. NEVER do it.

No.

As has been mentioned, there are plenty of places where roads are fully congested to the point where all side roads will cease to function without their traffic either forcing its way in, or someone allowing them to enter.

I periodically sit in such stopped traffic on a route I travel routinely in the rush hour.  If traffic starts to move and I'm stopped right before such a street, I'll let someone in.

I've considered the pros and cons and the value if time, and I'm not really that concerned about the five seconds of my time and others' that this costs.  I don't owe anyone the preservation of a handful of their seconds.  Leave the house earlier.

Society depends on give and take, particularly in crowds and broken systems like overwhelmed roads full of traffic.  There are assholes in the subway, too, that insist no one get in the pack until they barrel through, and there's a special place in hell for them, too.

[Brandon]

^^ There's politeness, and then there's being a jerk to all of those behind you.  Stopping short of a driveway or intersection is common courtesy.  Stopping in the traffic flow when the signal is green just to wave someone out, and you and all those behind you can go through at speed, is being a jerk.

[cl94]

NEVER... I REPEAT NEVER "wave" someone out, EVER. You aren't in control of the situation, you don't control traffic. STOP pretending to be a traffic cop. I'm missing 15 minutes of my life as I cannot remember it at all plus feeling in part of my face because of some asshole that was "just being nice" and waved someone else out in front of me. NEVER do it.

No.

As has been mentioned, there are plenty of places where roads are fully congested to the point where all side roads will cease to function without their traffic either forcing its way in, or someone allowing them to enter.

I periodically sit in such stopped traffic on a route I travel routinely in the rush hour.  If traffic starts to move and I'm stopped right before such a street, I'll let someone in.

I've considered the pros and cons and the value if time, and I'm not really that concerned about the five seconds of my time and others' that this costs.  I don't owe anyone the preservation of a handful of their seconds.  Leave the house earlier.

Society depends on give and take, particularly in crowds and broken systems like overwhelmed roads full of traffic.  There are assholes in the subway, too, that insist no one get in the pack until they barrel through, and there's a special place in hell for them, too.

^^ There's politeness, and then there's being a jerk to all of those behind you.  Stopping short of a driveway or intersection is common courtesy.  Stopping in the traffic flow when the signal is green just to wave someone out, and you and all those behind you can go through at speed, is being a jerk.

Agree with both of you. If I'm stopped, I'll let someone in, partially because it's illegal (at least around here) to block an intersection and I know that some of these people would wait for an hour if someone didn't wait 2 seconds for them to dart out immediately after the light changes.

When I refer to "waving out", I mean the idiots who will stop moving to let someone out or those who let someone make an opposing left turn in front of them. They're as bad as the assholes who speed past and try and squeeze into a turn/exit lane at the last possible moment (and the idiots who let them in, of course).

[Sam]

block the box

Are we making a distinction between left turns and going straight?

If I'm going straight, I won't enter the intersection if I can't get all the way through. When I'm making a left turn, though, I'll pull into the intersection and wait there for a break in oncoming traffic (which is what the NYS Drivers Manual says to do).

We also have a Tim Hortons/Wendy's combo with intersecting drive-thru lanes. When waiting in the Wendy's logjam, I leave a space for exiting Timmy's traffic to cross. Oh, the other Wendy's traffic hates that.

[cl94]

block the box

Are we making a distinction between left turns and going straight?

Yes. Stopping while in the process of making a permissive left turn is perfectly legal.

[1995hoo]

I seldom pull into the intersection to wait to turn left because in most cases I find it easier to see if I'm behind the stop bar, especially given the proliferation of large SUVs and minivans, and even more so if THEY pull out halfway. The only time anyone's ever honked at me for not pulling out was in Weston, Florida, and I'll concede the intersection there (somewhere on Bonaventure Boulevard) was a much larger space and here it probably wouldn't have had a permissive green.

There are also a couple of lights through which I pass regularly where the green arrow is at the end of the cycle, rather than the beginning, and the people who pull out to wait often can't see the light and don't know the green arrow is on until either they realize why the people going the other way stopped or someone honks. If they stopped behind the line, they could see the light.

But when I referred to blocking the box I was using the term in the New York City sense, or for that matter the British "box junction" sense, either of those being you do not enter the box unless you know you will be able to clear it. However, I view it as blocking the box if you are at an intersection that, on your street, is uncontrolled and you pull out and block traffic on the intersecting street. After all, you're preventing people on the other street from going anywhere when you do that.

[Pete from Boston]

NEVER... I REPEAT NEVER "wave" someone out, EVER. You aren't in control of the situation, you don't control traffic. STOP pretending to be a traffic cop. I'm missing 15 minutes of my life as I cannot remember it at all plus feeling in part of my face because of some asshole that was "just being nice" and waved someone else out in front of me. NEVER do it.

I'm re-reading this a little more carefully and now understand that you're getting at the fact that you were in an accident as a result of someone waving someone through.  I do not mean to sound like I'm putting down your suffering.  It was not initially clear to me from the indirect description.  The repeated all-caps "NEVER" admittedly took the bulk of my attention.  The "missing 15 minutes" was a little obtuse and sounded like a reference to time lost in traffic.

[sdmichael]

NEVER... I REPEAT NEVER "wave" someone out, EVER. You aren't in control of the situation, you don't control traffic. STOP pretending to be a traffic cop. I'm missing 15 minutes of my life as I cannot remember it at all plus feeling in part of my face because of some asshole that was "just being nice" and waved someone else out in front of me. NEVER do it.

I'm re-reading this a little more carefully and now understand that you're getting at the fact that you were in an accident as a result of someone waving someone through.  I do not mean to sound like I'm putting down your suffering.  It was not initially clear to me from the indirect description.  The repeated all-caps "NEVER" admittedly took the bulk of my attention.  The "missing 15 minutes" was a little obtuse and sounded like a reference to time lost in traffic.

You must have missed the fact that I stated I was missing my memory of those fifteen minutes. The collision was in 2011. I still don't have full feeling in my face and I still have NO MEMORY of the event. Are you willing to accept that should your "waving" create that for another? You want to be kind to another, don't create a potentially life-threatening hazard where none existed before. They can wait and proceed when it is safe, not when you deem it safe. Obtuse? Try reading the post first before making light of someone else's ongoing pain. THAT is beyond RUDE.

[jakeroot]

NEVER... I REPEAT NEVER "wave" someone out, EVER. You aren't in control of the situation, you don't control traffic. STOP pretending to be a traffic cop. I'm missing 15 minutes of my life as I cannot remember it at all plus feeling in part of my face because of some asshole that was "just being nice" and waved someone else out in front of me. NEVER do it.

I'm re-reading this a little more carefully and now understand that you're getting at the fact that you were in an accident as a result of someone waving someone through.  I do not mean to sound like I'm putting down your suffering.  It was not initially clear to me from the indirect description.  The repeated all-caps "NEVER" admittedly took the bulk of my attention.  The "missing 15 minutes" was a little obtuse and sounded like a reference to time lost in traffic.

You must have missed the fact that I stated I was missing my memory of those fifteen minutes. The collision was in 2011. I still don't have full feeling in my face and I still have NO MEMORY of the event. Are you willing to accept that should your "waving" create that for another? You want to be kind to another, don't create a potentially life-threatening hazard where none existed before. They can wait and proceed when it is safe, not when you deem it safe. Obtuse? Try reading the post first before making light of someone else's ongoing pain. THAT is beyond RUDE.

Spare us the pitty, Michael. He apologized...move on. We've all been mis-understood many, many times on this forum; you're gonna need to get used to it.

If they stopped behind the line, they could see the light.

Or they could install side-mount signals. I've never caught onto the whole overhead-only signals fad. Why should I have to crane my neck to see the signal?

[Pete from Boston]

NEVER... I REPEAT NEVER "wave" someone out, EVER. You aren't in control of the situation, you don't control traffic. STOP pretending to be a traffic cop. I'm missing 15 minutes of my life as I cannot remember it at all plus feeling in part of my face because of some asshole that was "just being nice" and waved someone else out in front of me. NEVER do it.

I'm re-reading this a little more carefully and now understand that you're getting at the fact that you were in an accident as a result of someone waving someone through.  I do not mean to sound like I'm putting down your suffering.  It was not initially clear to me from the indirect description.  The repeated all-caps "NEVER" admittedly took the bulk of my attention.  The "missing 15 minutes" was a little obtuse and sounded like a reference to time lost in traffic.

You must have missed the fact that I stated I was missing my memory of those fifteen minutes. The collision was in 2011. I still don't have full feeling in my face and I still have NO MEMORY of the event. Are you willing to accept that should your "waving" create that for another? You want to be kind to another, don't create a potentially life-threatening hazard where none existed before. They can wait and proceed when it is safe, not when you deem it safe. Obtuse? Try reading the post first before making light of someone else's ongoing pain. THAT is beyond RUDE.

Actually I didn't make light of it.  As I said, the post I quoted didn't make it clear to me, and I responded to how it read to me, and then took the time to acknowledge that my post was based on a misapprehension (and to views held by many).  There's such a thing as graciously accepting someone's admission they made a mistake, you know.

I'm sorry for your suffering.  Not every experience applies to every situation, though, and in continually nearly-stopped traffic, side streets completely cease to function unless courtesy is shown by those in traffic (who are breaking the law in some cases by not allowing that traffic in).  Waiting for an opportunity to organically arise in these cases could take an hour or more, and will only drive people to even less-safe behavior.

I also don't expect someone to proceed beyond whatever space I allow without assuring any other way they cross is also safe to cross.

It's a mistake to think one's judgement is good enough for another driver to accept at face value.  It is also a mistake for that driver to accept your judgement at face value.  Neither fact means drivers can't exercise good judgement.