2013 Wichita Road Meet, July 20

[okroads]

I made it back home tonight after driving 535 miles total yesterday, and 807 miles today. I drove to Garden City yesterday after the road meet (through some rain east of Kinsley that was so hard that I pulled off onto the shoulder for a few minutes to let it pass), then today I drove all over west Kansas and the Texas Panhandle, collecting 10 new counties (7 in Kansas, 3 in Texas) on my way back home.

It was great to meet those who I had not met before and to reconnect with those who I had previously met at other road meets.

[J N Winkler]

West of US 160, online maps and my GPS identify K-2 as K-14. I had planned my route to use K-14 but figured out pretty quickly that the route is signed as K-2. Was it ever K-14?

I am not aware that it has ever been.  My earliest memory is of K-2 as the route from Wichita to US 281 at the Oklahoma state line via Harper, Anthony, and Kiowa (birthplace of Auntie Mae!).  However, about a decade ago the route was pruned back at the north end to the K-42 junction near Norwich.  Previously it had followed K-42's current routing to both routes' terminus at US 54 (Edwards Ave./Southwest Blvd. interchange).  This pruning removed what used to be called a "useless multiplex" in MTR days, and it is the reason K-42 shields are still misaligned on I-235 interchange sequence signs in Wichita.  There is still an interchange sequence sign on I-235 northbound, I think just past the MacArthur interchange, which has a now-erroneous K-2 shield.

Since then K-42 itself has been pruned within the I-235 loop; this is why the advance guide and exit direction signs for Meridian/Edwards have empty greenspace at the top with vaguely sunflower-shaped imprints.

[NE2]

K-14 uselessly overlapped K-2 from Harper to Oklahoma until the mid-1990s.

[J N Winkler]

K-14 uselessly overlapped K-2 from Harper to Oklahoma until the mid-1990s.

Thanks for this--I checked and it seems both of the K-2 overlaps (K-14 south of Harper and K-42 to Wichita) disappeared between the 1993-94 and 1995-96 editions of the official state transportation map.  A check of the rural resolutions website suggests these changes were made, possibly through the same instrument, with a signature date of 1994-12-21, but I can't confirm right now because the relevant documents are not loading for me.

Sources conflict as to when K-42 was dropped along Southwest Blvd. within the I-235 loop.  It is shown on the 1997-1998 state map, but not the 1999-2000 one.  The only resolution the rural resolutions website lists for K-42 in Sedgwick County has a signature date of 1994-12-21, which suggests K-42 was pruned at the same time the useless overlaps of K-2 were removed, but I remember K-42 continued to be signed at the Meridian/Edwards exit for a time after the K-2 shields were removed.

[hbelkins]

Can anyone link to scans of maps showing when K-96 was signed, and the numbering schemes pre-US 400?

[J N Winkler]

Can anyone link to scans of maps showing when K-96 was signed, and the numbering schemes pre-US 400?

KDOT's past editions of the official state transportation map:

http://www.ksdot.org/burtransplan/maps/historicstatemaps.asp

KDOT's rural resolutions website (rural resolutions are how the KDOT secretary executes his or her power under Kansas law to designate or vacate state highways):

http://kdotapp2.ksdot.org/RuralResolutions/RuralResolutions.aspx

[NE2]

KDOT's site is currently down.

[apeman33]

I had fun yesterday and then the *real* fun began.

I mentioned that on my way out I had seen some funky K-58 signs on the detour between Iola and Yates Center. One had a strange font for the "58" and one at Yates Center had a small 58 in a 3dk shield. Nothing else unusual about the trip out, though.

After I left the meet Saturday, I headed out to meet my friend in Ponca City, OK. I headed south on Tyler to MacArthur, then went east to Broadway and continued south on U.S. 81, getting some gas in Wellington and looping around a little downtown. There's a new roundabout where U.S. 81 southbound (A St.) meets U.S. 160 as it comes in from the east. One of the roads going into the roundabout is one way northbound coming from the south.

At South Haven, I joined U.S. 177 for the first time ever. The quality of the pavement declined abruptly at the state line but it wasn't nearly as bad as I'd see later on.

Going under I-35, I noted the difference in how Oklahoma signs a junction at an interstate as compared to Kansas. I continued through the small town of Braman and went on into Blackwell. I was planning to turn east on OK-11 but decided to see what the downtown looked like and I was glad I did. Three of the downtown intersections have a traffic signal set up I've never seen before.



So then back to OK-11 and on to U.S. 77 at Kildare. Then south to Ponca City where I met my friend. We ate dinner, then took an extensive tour of the area. Saw Ponca Lake and then we went up to Newkirk where he works. It doesn't look like much coming in from the south but then after a couple of turns you get a better idea of what the town is like. Coincidentally, Newkirk has recently absorbed the Braman district and was building a new high school. It's supposed to open in a month but doesn't have a parking lot (not even grading) and doesn't have a gym, which means the volleyball team and basketball teams will have to continue playing at the civic center downtown. They can't use the old high school because it's on the verge of being condemned. Last winter, snow would get into the building through all sorts of cracks.

After leaving, I had a hell of a time. The thunderstorms that came through Kay County and Cowley County, Kansas, were quite severe even though there weren't any warnings issued. The rain was coming down hard enough to make it difficult to see the lines on the road (although for the most part, this part of U.S. 77 in Oklahoma was quite awful). Lightning was coming down at an alarming rate and the winds were gusting up to 60 MPH. I decided that I didn't need to keep driving since any way I went from either Arkansas City or Winfield would probably involve a 60-plus mile trip before the next opportunity to stop for the night.

Sunday morning I loaded my stuff into my car and was greeted by this:


That's water on the floorboard of the passenger side of the back of the Neon. I've had this happen once before but it happened on the driver's side. There are gaps just wide enough that if the car is standing still, the wind is blowing just right and it's raining hard enough, this will happen. However, the vacuum at the car wash took care of the problem.

I left Winfield via K-360, then headed west on U.S. 160. At Cambridge, I came across this:


A mixed-case city limit sign on a non-interstate highway in Kansas. A first for me. (The one on the east side of the city has not been replaced and so remains all caps.)

I continued on 160 to U.S. 75, headed south to "58 Road," which leads to Independence Community College, then south on 10th Street (as its known in Independence) down to U.S. 166. After having a bad meal at Taco Mayo, I went through the new 166/169 interchange, then headed east on 166. I took brief looks at a few small towns and dove down for a look at Chetopa before doubling back because of 166 being closed east of there. I went back up to Oswego, discovered a nice city park by the Neosho River, then went east to Columbus.

The first sign on the east side of the 69-160 & K-7 junction is new with mixed case but still lists Carthage as a destination (32 miles) even though there's no official state designation of any sort anymore for former K-96 between Crestline and the Missouri state line.

I ducked down and looked at several small towns along the way. I think I may have found an alignment of U.S. 160 that went through Elk City at one point. I didn't know if it ever has officially so I might have to investigate that. Also, since this was just the second or third time I've been on 160 between Winfield and Independence, I'd forgotten how scenic it is between K-99 and Elk City.

And that's all I got.

[agentsteel53]

I have the entire route except that portion west of Grand Junction. Colo.

you're missing a segment (San Rafael Swell) which I think even outdoes the Glenwood Canyon section in terms of scenic value.  well recommended.

[J N Winkler]

KDOT's site is currently down.

It has now come back up.  A quick inspection of multiple resolutions dated 1994-12-21 shows that a large number (probably nearly all) useless overlaps were removed on that date, through multiple instruments (K-14 overlapping mileage in Barber and Harper counties handled by one instrument, K-2 overlapping mileage in Sedgwick and Sumner counties handled by another).

The one dealing with K-2 and K-42 in Sedgwick County is actually quite unclear as to what was to be done with the existing eastern terminus of K-42 in Sedgwick County.  It can be found here:

http://idmweb.ksdot.org/publiclib/publicdoc.asp?ID=003710819:1

The existing condition, before approval of this instrument, was that K-2 and K-42 overlapped on Southwest Boulevard all the way to the US 54 interchange.  The instrument hints that its sole purpose is to remove the useless K-2 overlap (". . . with the provision that the existing road shall remain on the State Highway System designated solely as K-42"), but it also contains language that references the "western city limits of Wichita," which on the K-42/Southwest Boulevard corridor are at the I-235 interchange.

The instrument, in fact, is so unclear and so badly worded that I think the K-2 signs were taken down right away but it was not realized until much later (perhaps as much as a year or two later) that the intent was also to move the K-42 terminus out to the Wichita city limits.

[kphoger]

(through some rain east of Kinsley that was so hard that I pulled off onto the shoulder for a few minutes to let it pass)

That doesn't sound like you...

[WichitaRoads]

I had fun yesterday and then the *real* fun began.

I mentioned that on my way out I had seen some funky K-58 signs on the detour between Iola and Yates Center. One had a strange font for the "58" and one at Yates Center had a small 58 in a 3dk shield. Nothing else unusual about the trip out, though.

After I left the meet Saturday, I headed out to meet my friend in Ponca City, OK. I headed south on Tyler to MacArthur, then went east to Broadway and continued south on U.S. 81, getting some gas in Wellington and looping around a little downtown. There's a new roundabout where U.S. 81 southbound (A St.) meets U.S. 160 as it comes in from the east. One of the roads going into the roundabout is one way northbound coming from the south.

At South Haven, I joined U.S. 177 for the first time ever. The quality of the pavement declined abruptly at the state line but it wasn't nearly as bad as I'd see later on.

Going under I-35, I noted the difference in how Oklahoma signs a junction at an interstate as compared to Kansas. I continued through the small town of Braman and went on into Blackwell. I was planning to turn east on OK-11 but decided to see what the downtown looked like and I was glad I did. Three of the downtown intersections have a traffic signal set up I've never seen before.



So then back to OK-11 and on to U.S. 77 at Kildare. Then south to Ponca City where I met my friend. We ate dinner, then took an extensive tour of the area. Saw Ponca Lake and then we went up to Newkirk where he works. It doesn't look like much coming in from the south but then after a couple of turns you get a better idea of what the town is like. Coincidentally, Newkirk has recently absorbed the Braman district and was building a new high school. It's supposed to open in a month but doesn't have a parking lot (not even grading) and doesn't have a gym, which means the volleyball team and basketball teams will have to continue playing at the civic center downtown. They can't use the old high school because it's on the verge of being condemned. Last winter, snow would get into the building through all sorts of cracks.

After leaving, I had a hell of a time. The thunderstorms that came through Kay County and Cowley County, Kansas, were quite severe even though there weren't any warnings issued. The rain was coming down hard enough to make it difficult to see the lines on the road (although for the most part, this part of U.S. 77 in Oklahoma was quite awful). Lightning was coming down at an alarming rate and the winds were gusting up to 60 MPH. I decided that I didn't need to keep driving since any way I went from either Arkansas City or Winfield would probably involve a 60-plus mile trip before the next opportunity to stop for the night.

This morning I got loaded my stuff into my car and was greeted by this:


That's water on the floorboard of the passenger side of the back of the Neon. I've had this happen once before but it happened on the driver's side. There are gaps just wide enough that if the car is standing still, the wind is blowing just right and it's raining hard enough, this will happen. However, the vacuum at the car wash took care of the problem.

I left Winfield via K-360, then headed west on U.S. 160. At Cambridge, I came across this:


A mixed-case city limit sign on a non-interstate highway in Kansas. A first for me. (The one on the east side of the city has not been replaced and so remains all caps.)

I continued on 160 to U.S. 75, headed south to "58 Road," which leads to Independence Community College, then south on 10th Street (as its known in Independence) down to U.S. 166. After having a bad meal at Taco Mayo, I went through the new 166/169 interchange, then headed east on 166. I took brief looks at a few small towns and dove down for a look at Chetopa before doubling back because of 166 being closed east of there. I went back up to Oswego, discovered a nice city park by the Neosho River, then went east to Columbus.

The first sign on the east side of the 69-160 & K-7 junction is new with mixed case but still lists Carthage as a destination (32 miles) even though there's no official state designation of any sort anymore for former K-96 between Crestline and the Missouri state line.

I ducked down and looked at several small towns along the way. I think I may have found an alignment of U.S. 160 that went through Elk City at one point. I didn't know if it ever has officially so I might have to investigate that. Also, since this was just the second or third time I've been on 160 between Winfield and Independence, I'd forgotten how scenic it is between K-99 and Elk City.

And that's all I got.

That's one hell of a trip! BTW, where was this old alignment of 160 at Elk City? I drove 160 so often for a while I fleshed out a lot of its route history. Maybe I can confirm it for ya.

ICTRds

[Big John]

^^

The traffic signal setup is unusual since it is not MUTCD compliant.  MUTCD calls for a 8' minimum separation for signals performing the same function.

[apeman33]

<my stuff snipped for brevity>

That's one hell of a trip! BTW, where was this old alignment of 160 at Elk City? I drove 160 so often for a while I fleshed out a lot of its route history. Maybe I can confirm it for ya.

ICTRds

As it appeared to me, the main north-south street, Montgomery Ave., appeared to be it. I only went south though, but the way it curved at the south city limits made me think it could have been. But I've had an opportunity to look at maps since then and the problem with this thought is that Montgomery -- or any other city street -- doesn't exit out of town to the north. And the way other roads leave the town don't make sense for a former 160 alignment unless 160 jogged east at Hickory Street to get back to its current alignment. So I'm thinking now that my assumption was incorrect.

Was 4th St. in Longton ever a part of 160? I drove that as well.

[NE2]

Montgomery used to exit to the north; this can be seen on aerials.

In 1936, US 160 entered Elk City from the east on Hickory and turned north on Montgomery. It doesn't seem to have used Montgomery south of Hickory.

http://www.ksdot.org/burtransplan/maps/PastPublishedCounty.asp (Montgomery County)

[WichitaRoads]

<my stuff snipped for brevity>

That's one hell of a trip! BTW, where was this old alignment of 160 at Elk City? I drove 160 so often for a while I fleshed out a lot of its route history. Maybe I can confirm it for ya.

ICTRds

As it appeared to me, the main north-south street, Montgomery Ave., appeared to be it. I only went south though, but the way it curved at the south city limits made me think it could have been. But I've had an opportunity to look at maps since then and the problem with this thought is that Montgomery -- or any other city street -- doesn't exit out of town to the north. And the way other roads leave the town don't make sense for a former 160 alignment unless 160 jogged east at Hickory Street to get back to its current alignment. So I'm thinking now that my assumption was incorrect.

Was 4th St. in Longton ever a part of 160? I drove that as well.

NE2 kinda beat me to it on Elk City. Perhaps the southern portion of Montgomery St and the curve was part of an older alignment (pre-1936) of 160, as the road the shoots east does meet up with the old 160/K-38 alignment, prior to Elk City Lake. North of town, you can see in ariel view the cuts and old openings of the road as it used to go out of town, now obliterated by a dike. It went north to what is now 5600 Rd, then went west, curving and stair-stepping to the current alignment just beyond the county line.

As for Longton, it came in on Fourth Street, then turned south on Kansas, and then west on Sixth. From there, the road (now 183, or Explorer Rd), went west until a curve to the south. From there, it stair-stepped, on to 9 Rd, then on to 141 Rd. It proceeded west until just south of Elk Falls, where it turned north on to 7th St in Elk Falls. From there, it went to Montgomery Street, turned west, and then out of town, stair-stepping again until hitting the current alignment.

A lot of Montgomery Streets in there, eh?

ICTRds

[hbelkins]

Home at last, home at last, thank God Almighty, I'm home at last!

Yesterday turned out a lot better than I expected. I slept in a bit, got everything organized in my rental to make sure that the transition back to my vehicle was quick and easy, then headed over to the Chevy garage, arriving there about 10:30 local time. I had been told the belt wouldn't be there until 11, so I had my iPad and figured I'd do some surfing while I waited. When I checked in at the service desk, they told me, "We've got your paperwork ready, let me get your keys." The belt had come earlier than expected and the work was already done!

I had some issues with my 12v adapters. I don't know if they have blown fuses in the plugs or what, but I couldn't get them to power on to fuel all my electronics. I finally found a splitter that worked, and was able to power my GPS (to see how long it would take me to get home and give me a time to beat; I already knew the route), my iPad (to log the trip with Every Trail) and my V-1 radar detector (so I could get home even faster.) I had batteries so I didn't worry about my camera.

I did get a photo of the arrow-per-lane signs on US 60 eastbound at US 65. Made four stops along the way -- food and restroom somewhere along US 60 east of US 63, gas and restroom at the Flying J at Charleston, restroom and a snack at the WK Parkway service area near Beaver Dam, and gas and restroom at the Speedway in Versailles at the end of the BG Parkway.

Had no weather issues, and only one gnarly construction slowdown (milling and paving on I-24 at Paducah.) Got photos of all the new signage along I-69.

I averaged about 75 mph along US 60 and 80 mph on the Kentucky parkways, except for the construction zones where I slowed down.

The new interchange at the WK Parkway and the Ring Road extension west of Elizabethtown should be open very soon. Looks like final paving has been done on the ramps and the signposts are in place for the exit signage. There is also a major pavement rehab taking place on the BG Parkway along its run through Washington County, and this is badly needed as that road has been rough for 35 years.

My goal was to be off the BG Parkway by dark to minimize my chances of hitting a deer a long way away from home, and I realized that goal. It had just gotten dark (helped along by some cloud cover) when I reached the mess that is the US 60 pavement rehab project between Versailles and Lexington, but the lateness of the hour meant traffic was at a minimum. A full moon emerged from behind the clouds east of Lexington, and there were no issues on my way home. I arrived around 11 p.m. EDT.

The GPS wanted me to take I-44 out of Springfield and it took awhile for it to realize I wasn't going to go that way before it put me on US 60. Interestingly enough, it wanted me to continue on I-57 past Charleston and go to Mt. Vernon and take I-64, but as soon as I got off to follow US 60, it routed me along 60 into Kentucky and chopped about a half-hour from the trip. I don't have it set to prefer interstates, so sometimes I marvel at the "logic" that goes into its routing decisions.

I'm looking forward to going through my photos of the trip. I actually enjoyed my forays into rural Kansas and Oklahoma. Those areas of the country are only boring if  you're on the interstate (except the Kansas Turnpike between Emporia and Wichita, which I found to be really interesting).

[route56]

Sources conflict as to when K-42 was dropped along Southwest Blvd. within the I-235 loop.  It is shown on the 1997-1998 state map, but not the 1999-2000 one.  The only resolution the rural resolutions website lists for K-42 in Sedgwick County has a signature date of 1994-12-21, which suggests K-42 was pruned at the same time the useless overlaps of K-2 were removed, but I remember K-42 continued to be signed at the Meridian/Edwards exit for a time after the K-2 shields were removed.

I read the 1994 resolution as dealing with Rural mileage only, and the City Connecting link segment of K-42 was handled with a amended CCL resolution.

Likewise, since Southwest Blvd. inside I-235 is within the Wichita city limits, the removal of the K-42 designation would have been made via a CCL resolution

[J N Winkler]

I read the 1994 resolution as dealing with Rural mileage only, and the City Connecting link segment of K-42 was handled with a amended CCL resolution.

Likewise, since Southwest Blvd. inside I-235 is within the Wichita city limits, the removal of the K-42 designation would have been made via a CCL resolution

This makes sense.  Unfortunately, the CCL agreements on the KDOT website (at least in the case of Wichita) only describe the current condition and normally don't say when CCL mileage was added to or removed from a given state route.

[apeman33]

Interesting, the whole 160 thing in Elk City was the opposite of what I had suspected, unless that southern curve is part of an older alignment than the maps show.

And when I look at old maps like that and see how many turns a road like U.S. 160 took, I'm amazed. I suppose if I looked the the Elk and Cowley county maps and counted all those 90-degree turns and crazy curves, I'd end up thinking it must have taken 6 or 7 hours to get from Winfield to Independence in the mid 30s.

[okroads]

(through some rain east of Kinsley that was so hard that I pulled off onto the shoulder for a few minutes to let it pass)

That doesn't sound like you...

LOL...only other time I had ever done that was in August 2003; I was on I-64 in eastern Kentucky, and the skies opened up so much I exited off at KY 67 (Industial Parkway) and let the storm pass.