Illinois notes

[Revive 755]

For one thing, the mining company shouldn't just get to "have it." Their mining shouldn't have affected the road in the way it did, so there should be some sort of compensation to IDOT for the land the road sits on.

Just hope we never see anything similar happen to the similar stretch of I-80/I-294.

[Rick Powell]

Just hope we never see anything similar happen to the similar stretch of I-80/I-294.

It's held up ever since I was a kid, and I'm an old man now, so there's that.

[Joe The Dragon]

For one thing, the mining company shouldn't just get to "have it." Their mining shouldn't have affected the road in the way it did, so there should be some sort of compensation to IDOT for the land the road sits on.

Just hope we never see anything similar happen to the similar stretch of I-80/I-294.

They have the funds to keep it up.

[inkyatari]

For one thing, the mining company shouldn't just get to "have it." Their mining shouldn't have affected the road in the way it did, so there should be some sort of compensation to IDOT for the land the road sits on.

Just hope we never see anything similar happen to the similar stretch of I-80/I-294.

Makes me wonder if the ISTHA has a contingency plan in case something does happen.

[rte66man]

Steel rebar showing doesn't indicate structural deficiencies. It's a normal part of everyday wear and tear and salt corrosion. It looks like the concrete was chipped off - pretty commonplace, in preparation for a patch. The bridge is only 33 years old.

Definitely prep work. Spalling doesn't generally happen in such a linear manner. 

[edwaleni]

You can see the closed road at https://goo.gl/maps/8mLztLQUi442

At what point can we declare the road unsalvageable and just let the quarry have the roadway and limestone underneath it?

--

The Death of Joliet Road
January 26, 2001

Three years ago, workers for the Illinois Department of Transportation spotted strange cracks in one stretch of Joliet Road, a major spoke through Chicago's southwestern suburbs. For reasons that are (or aren't) a mystery, the cracks grew into dangerous dips and buckles. By May of 1998, IDOT had no choice but to close that mile-long stretch and push almost 20,000 drivers a day onto side streets that remain choked by all the traffic.

It will eventually collapse.  It's clear that rain water has breached the base under the road, regardless of depth. Vulcan will get the materials. Mix the slightly acidic rain with subterranean limestone and it causes it to dissolve and settle.

There are many quarries in and around Chicago where the owner was allowed to scrape too closely to an adjoining ROW.  Several railroads are also at risk.  ISTHA doesn't allow material companies to scrape so close.

I don't know how much Vulcan donates to political parties in Illinois (many road contractors and suppliers do) but if IDOT plays their cards right, they could make Vulcan supply the aggregate for a replacement span for free to compensate for the limestone they took underneath.

Just to show you how non-plussed IDOT is about the issue, they had the traffic signals removed at Joliet and 55th Street going NE and you will notice that all the sodium vapor lights have had their fixtures removed for recycling. 

This won't resolve until it finally comes down. That could be next year, it could be in 20 years.

[inkyatari]

Well, now there's this...

Des Plaines River Bridge On I-80 Found Structurally "˜Intolerable'

CHICAGO (CBS)— A day after a cracked beam was discovered in a Lake Shore Drive bridge, CBS 2 investigated another bridge in desperate need of repair.

Last spring, inspectors found the Des Plaines River bridge on I-80 in Joliet in such bad shape, it may need to close.

Several months later, nothing has been done to repair the issues.


More than 42,000 drivers drive across Des Plaines River bridge everyday, and the most recent inspection reports reveal serious safety concerns.

Will Pruitt, a resident who lives near the I-80 bridge, is concerned. After years of noticing cracks and other deterioration, he stopped using the bridge.

"With all the trucks and stuff up there, it could be any minute,"  Pruitt said.

He is not the only one who feels this way.

Miguel works near the bridge. He said between the pot holes and slick conditions, he takes alternative routes.

An inspection in April confirmed their fears.

The westbound bridge was found structurally "intolerable"  and the bridge's span was listed in "critical condition and may require closure."  The bridge earned a sufficiency rating of 6 out of 100.

Anything below 80 is considered "deficient."

"It's very threatening,"  John Greuling, president and CEO of the Will County Center for Economic Development, said.

Greuling said state and local entities have been aware of the structural problems for years as the county has experienced unprecedented growth in the freight industry.

IDOT has proposed rebuilding the Des Plaines River Bridge, but Grueling says they've been told actual funding and construction of that project could take decades.

"What we don't want is a bridge failure,"  Greuling he said. "What we don't want is loss of life."

Greuling is part of the I-80 Coalition Committee, which includes dozens of state and local stakeholders who are trying to expedite the process of funding a rebuild. The committee is pushing for federal funding and even asking the Illinois State Toll Highway Authority to take over.

"If it takes an incident like the Lake Shore Drive bridge failure so be it,"  he said. "Thank god nobody was hurt or killed but that clearly our clarion call right now."

IDOT told CBS 2 they are still in the study phase for the project that will involve rebuilding the bridge. In the meantime, IDOT started performing inspections every 6 months and a maintenance project is tentatively scheduled to start this spring. That would include structural steel repairs.

[Henry]

SMH...another reason I'm glad I moved out of Chicagoland.

[csw]

Notice how they wait until the END of the article to mention that IDOT is on a 6-month inspection cycle and will be doing repairs shortly....it's not an excuse for not replacing the bridge, but the way the article is written, you'd think IDOT is ignoring the problem completely.

And the quote from the local resident..."it could be any minute." As an engineering student, I absolutely hate it when engineers think they're higher and mightier than everyone else...but this guy is by no means an authority to be ruling on the state of the bridge. Sure, cracks are never good, but I would trust IDOT's engineers to have it under control. And if they don't, then it's a shame and the whole profession is harmed. I guess my point is, the article could have been written better.

Here come the "IDiOT" comments.

[paulthemapguy]

The condition of the I-80 bridge is a big topic of conversation here at Will County.  For context, we act urgently to replace a bridge on our system if it falls below a sufficiency rating of 30.  The rating of the I-80 bridge is SIX.

Also, for context, the city of Joliet created an emergency task force to plan how to best respond to a collapse of the bridge.

Unfortunately for those of us involved with Joliet or Will County agencies, we can't fix the bridge.  We have no power over it.  It's the state's property and we can't touch it.

This article also dropped recently: IDOT insists I-80 bridge is safe.  If IDOT is going to stand by this claim, they had better be able to back it up.  A repair project is scheduled for the spring--will it be enough?  Has anyone seen any plans for this, seen in bid lettings or elsewhere?

Also--this is a big point of contention for me, as I take this bridge to work every day.

[Brandon]

Notice how they wait until the END of the article to mention that IDOT is on a 6-month inspection cycle and will be doing repairs shortly....it's not an excuse for not replacing the bridge, but the way the article is written, you'd think IDOT is ignoring the problem completely.

Problem is, this is a bandage for a problem that IDOT has been told about for decades.  So yes, IDOT has been ignoring the problem.

[ET21]

*just waiting for the first one to collapse* 

[Revive 755]

Unfortunately for those of us involved with Joliet or Will County agencies, we can't fix the bridge.  We have no power over it.  It's the state's property and we can't touch it.

Not quite in agreement with this assessment.  IL 19 in Streamwood is IDOT property, yet Streamwood has a project to widening it on the March 2019 Letting.  Previously Kane County widened IL 25 between the two Stearns Road intersections, and the City of McHenry upgraded the eastern IL 31/IL 120 intersection along with widening IL 31 north of that intersection.  There's a precedent for other agencies touching IDOT's roadways.

A repair project is scheduled for the spring--will it be enough?  Has anyone seen any plans for this, seen in bid lettings or elsewhere?

There are two separate contracts mentioning the Des Plaines River bridges on IDOT's March 2019 Letting, Item 33, Contract 62H35 and Item 125, Contract 62H68.

[hobsini2]

Honestly, the I-80 bridges need to be taken down and completely redone with 4 lanes (3 thru lanes and 1 exit/entrance lane) each way including a standard shoulder. Yes it will be a nightmare for the next 2 years but with the amount of traffic that those bridges carry, it is needed now. And I-80 should get 3 lanes each way between US 30 and I-55 thru Joliet at a minimum.

[Brandon]

Honestly, the I-80 bridges need to be taken down and completely redone with 4 lanes (3 thru lanes and 1 exit/entrance lane) each way including a standard shoulder. Yes it will be a nightmare for the next 2 years but with the amount of traffic that those bridges carry, it is needed now. And I-80 should get 3 lanes each way between US 30 and I-55 thru Joliet at a minimum.

A minimum.  I'd extend the six lane section out to IL-47 in Morris.  As for the bridge, I'd personally like something distinctive, not a boring beam POS.  An arch, a cable-stayed, a new truss, anything but a beam bridge.

[Rick Powell]

I'd extend the six lane section out to IL-47 in Morris.  As for the bridge, I'd personally like something distinctive, not a boring beam POS.  An arch, a cable-stayed, a new truss, anything but a beam bridge.

Everything from MP 115 to MP 123 is set up for six-laning, all they need to do is add a shoulder. The 2002 pavement had continuous reinforcing steel installed in what is now the shoulder so that it could be converted later. I disagree with a truss as a replacement bridge - they are notoriously more difficult to inspect and maintain than other types, and that's what we are trying to get away from with the current bridge. Whatever the Coast Guard allows as a horizontal navigation clearance will determine what IDOT replaces it with. Over 500' will likely not be a plate girder, and would probably be a cable stayed or maybe a tied arch.

[mgk920]

How close, would anyone say, are IDOT engineers to ordering that bridge to be closed?

Mike

[edwaleni]

Honestly, the I-80 bridges need to be taken down and completely redone with 4 lanes (3 thru lanes and 1 exit/entrance lane) each way including a standard shoulder. Yes it will be a nightmare for the next 2 years but with the amount of traffic that those bridges carry, it is needed now. And I-80 should get 3 lanes each way between US 30 and I-55 thru Joliet at a minimum.

I took a look superficially at the I-80/Des Plaines River Bridge from the underneath.

While rusty girder beams are mostly a cosmetic item and not structural, I can't tell from here if the joints on the approaches are fatigued.

However, rebar expansion damage on many of the support pylons are everywhere. It looks like IDOT did a major rebar damage effort about 5 years ago, but all of the refacing is cracking again.  There is also rebar expansion damage on the undersides of some of the pavement segments.  According to the bridge directory it was built in 1965 and was redecked in 1998.

[inkyatari]

Another couple accidents on I-80 in the Joliet area today.

When the HELL is this stretch of road going to be taken seriously?

Widen Laraway to a six lane limited access facility, widen the HELL out of 80, and rebuild the SHIT out of the Des Plaines bridge!

EDIT: Widening 80 to six lanes is no longer adequate. Gotta be 8 lanes now.

[paulthemapguy]

Honestly, the I-80 bridges need to be taken down and completely redone with 4 lanes (3 thru lanes and 1 exit/entrance lane) each way including a standard shoulder. Yes it will be a nightmare for the next 2 years but with the amount of traffic that those bridges carry, it is needed now. And I-80 should get 3 lanes each way between US 30 and I-55 thru Joliet at a minimum.

This is a great take.  I totally agree with this assessment.

Another couple accidents on I-80 in the Joliet area today.

When the HELL is this stretch of road going to be taken seriously?

Widen Laraway to a six lane limited access facility, widen the HELL out of 80, and rebuild the SHIT out of the Des Plaines bridge!

EDIT: Widening 80 to six lanes is no longer adequate. Gotta be 8 lanes now.

Laraway is never going to be a freeway lol.  But plans are already in motion to widen the entire thing to 4 or 5 lines from US52 all the way east to Harlem.

I'd classify I-80 as "destroyed" from Briggs St. west to the Minooka exit.  I'd urge caution to anyone driving that stretch.

[inkyatari]

Honestly, the I-80 bridges need to be taken down and completely redone with 4 lanes (3 thru lanes and 1 exit/entrance lane) each way including a standard shoulder. Yes it will be a nightmare for the next 2 years but with the amount of traffic that those bridges carry, it is needed now. And I-80 should get 3 lanes each way between US 30 and I-55 thru Joliet at a minimum.

This is a great take.  I totally agree with this assessment.

Another couple accidents on I-80 in the Joliet area today.

When the HELL is this stretch of road going to be taken seriously?

Widen Laraway to a six lane limited access facility, widen the HELL out of 80, and rebuild the SHIT out of the Des Plaines bridge!

EDIT: Widening 80 to six lanes is no longer adequate. Gotta be 8 lanes now.

Laraway is never going to be a freeway lol.  But plans are already in motion to widen the entire thing to 4 or 5 lines from US52 all the way east to Harlem.

I'd classify I-80 as "destroyed" from Briggs St. west to the Minooka exit.  I'd urge caution to anyone driving that stretch.

Laraway should have been upgraded 20 years ago.

[paulthemapguy]

Maybe you're thinking of the Illiana? That could have and should have happened. And that would have occurred along the Wilmington-Peotone corridor. Idk how one gets the idea to take a 2-lane country road parallel with a nearby freeway corridor and upgrade it to its own separate freeway. In that situation, the obvious solution is to add lanes to the existing freeway, barring some colossal obstacles to that option.

SM-G930P

[Revive 755]

Maybe you're thinking of the Illiana? That could have and should have happened. And that would have occurred along the Wilmington-Peotone corridor. Idk how one gets the idea to take a 2-lane country road parallel with a nearby freeway corridor and upgrade it to its own separate freeway. In that situation, the obvious solution is to add lanes to the existing freeway, barring some colossal obstacles to that option.

1) I-80 is an important enough corridor it needs a backup/redundant route in case of an incident that requires a long term closure.  As of now the only all freeway alternatives involve going inward/north on I-55 or going down to I-74.  At the very least there should be an expressway route somewhere to the south of I-80 that could be used in the event of a major incident.

2) Will County had been growing decently enough that a new freeway would not be in the country for too long.

[ilpt4u]

Maybe you're thinking of the Illiana? That could have and should have happened. And that would have occurred along the Wilmington-Peotone corridor. Idk how one gets the idea to take a 2-lane country road parallel with a nearby freeway corridor and upgrade it to its own separate freeway. In that situation, the obvious solution is to add lanes to the existing freeway, barring some colossal obstacles to that option.

1) I-80 is an important enough corridor it needs a backup/redundant route in case of an incident that requires a long term closure.  As of now the only all freeway alternatives involve going inward/north on I-55 or going down to I-74.  At the very least there should be an expressway route somewhere to the south of I-80 that could be used in the event of a major incident.

2) Will County had been growing decently enough that a new freeway would not be in the country for too long.

Would not the official detour be 355 to 55? Or even 294 to 55?

Heck, depending on destination, 355 or 294 to 88 to the Quad Cities works too

If the Illiana were ever to be a thing, it would either already be constructed or at least being constructed. Does IDOT and/or ISTHA even have a protected corridor for a potential Illiana?

[Revive 755]

2) Will County had been growing decently enough that a new freeway would not be in the country for too long.

Would not the official detour be 355 to 55? Or even 294 to 55?

That would be fine, if I-55 was not starting to have capacity issues outside of peak hour, particularly the stretch between I-355 and IL 53.

If the Illiana were ever to be a thing, it would either already be constructed or at least being constructed.

Disagree - just because a highway is not currently being built does not mean it couldn't be built someday.  How many years was there talk about taking the Elgin O'Hare east of I-290 before it was finally started?