New Jersey Turnpike

[jeffandnicole]

I only get 511 alerts for my normal commuting time, so this is the first one I've seen for the new dual-dual section. It's a good one though!

[02 Park Ave]

I heard about this delay on KYW even at 2:30.  Why were the outer lanes closed for costruction?  They were just opened a few months ago.

[ixnay]

I heard about this delay on KYW even at 2:30.  Why were the outer lanes closed for costruction?  They were just opened a few months ago.

Is buckling pavement possible even when the temp is in the upper 40s?  Randy Chappigan on KY' was saying at 5:43 last night that it was emergency construction on the new truck lanes.

ixnay

[jeffandnicole]

I heard about this delay on KYW even at 2:30.  Why were the outer lanes closed for costruction?  They were just opened a few months ago.

Is buckling pavement possible even when the temp is in the upper 40s?  Randy Chappigan on KY' was saying at 5:43 last night that it was emergency construction on the new truck lanes.

ixnay

It's hardly 'emergency' construction...it was actually in the NJ Turnpike's widening forecasted lane closures: http://www.njturnpikewidening.com/pdf/road%20and%20lane%20closures%20effective%2011-03-2014.pdf   KYW may still do traffic on the 10s, but their accuracy is far from what it was many years ago.

When I first saw this, I will admit that I thought it was a misprint and that for Thursday and Friday, the alert should've said 10*pm* to 4am, not 10am to 4am.  I guess it was right though!

Being that it was a 16 hour shutdown, there's probably some significant work that needs to be done.  Especially at the northern merge/diverge points, they had to lay asphalt down to allow traffic to safely move between the two roadways at highway speeds.  Now, they need to go back, remove that asphalt, and reslope the highway to properly discharge water, add guardrail, etc. It will take a few months to get everything completed, and some of that work is weather/temperature dependent (meaning, get it done now before it gets cold).  I think there's some minor signage work to take care of as well.

[vdeane]

That's what happens when you construct a permanent roadway for a temporary traffic pattern.  NYSDOT usually uses cheap pavement and orange wooden construction signage that's easy to remove.

[jeffandnicole]

That's what happens when you construct a permanent roadway for a temporary traffic pattern.  NYSDOT usually uses cheap pavement and orange wooden construction signage that's easy to remove.

How often has New York expanded a 2 roadway, 6 lane highway to a 4 roadway, 12 lane highway?  And of those highways, how many have an ADT of over 100,000 vehicles?

Did you say none?  OK then.  Come back to us when you have a more relevant example.  I'm sure a few days of traffic congestion is worth the price to pay for 5 years of road construction which barely impeded normal travel.

[cl94]

That's what happens when you construct a permanent roadway for a temporary traffic pattern.  NYSDOT usually uses cheap pavement and orange wooden construction signage that's easy to remove.

How often has New York expanded a 2 roadway, 6 lane highway to a 4 roadway, 12 lane highway?  And of those highways, how many have an ADT of over 100,000 vehicles?

Did you say none?  OK then.  Come back to us when you have a more relevant example.  I'm sure a few days of traffic congestion is worth the price to pay for 5 years of road construction which barely impeded normal travel.

That's a bit harsh. The question is why you'd need to expand so much so quickly. No other road in the world has the same exact setup, but you're forgetting about the LIE and Northern State Parkway/Grand Central Parkway, which effectively function the same way with a combined AADT of well over 300,000 at parts.

Again, New York (and most other places in North America) uses other methods to increase capacity that are lower in cost. The New Jersey Turnpike method does little more than separate cars and trucks, in effect creating two lanes out of six that are for slow drivers instead of one and trapping people if an accident occurs. Yeah, one roadway will move freely, but the impacted one will come to a standstill if 2 lanes are closed. Funneling 3 lanes into 1 does more damage than having all 6 lanes merge into two. That's just traffic flow theory. And what if something happens on the truck lanes? They can't even get around a mess.

It would be one thing if the inner lanes were express lanes. But they aren't. New York has several highways with an AADT of well over 100,000 and there are quite a few upstate. The NJTA might have their reasons for doing things, but there's a reason why the rest of the world doesn't use separate truck-car carriageways (or jughandles, if we include NJDOT).

[NE2]

It would be one thing if the inner lanes were express lanes. But they aren't.

Sure they are. The outer lanes are also express lanes. The Turnpike has few enough interchanges that it has no need for local lanes.

[roadman65]

That's what happens when you construct a permanent roadway for a temporary traffic pattern.  NYSDOT usually uses cheap pavement and orange wooden construction signage that's easy to remove.

How often has New York expanded a 2 roadway, 6 lane highway to a 4 roadway, 12 lane highway?  And of those highways, how many have an ADT of over 100,000 vehicles?

Did you say none?  OK then.  Come back to us when you have a more relevant example.  I'm sure a few days of traffic congestion is worth the price to pay for 5 years of road construction which barely impeded normal travel.

That's a bit harsh. The question is why you'd need to expand so much so quickly. No other road in the world has the same exact setup, but you're forgetting about the LIE and Northern State Parkway/Grand Central Parkway, which effectively function the same way with a combined AADT of well over 300,000 at parts.

Again, New York (and most other places in North America) uses other methods to increase capacity that are lower in cost. The New Jersey Turnpike method does little more than separate cars and trucks, in effect creating two lanes out of six that are for slow drivers instead of one and trapping people if an accident occurs. Yeah, one roadway will move freely, but the impacted one will come to a standstill if 2 lanes are closed. Funneling 3 lanes into 1 does more damage than having all 6 lanes merge into two. That's just traffic flow theory. And what if something happens on the truck lanes? They can't even get around a mess.

It would be one thing if the inner lanes were express lanes. But they aren't. New York has several highways with an AADT of well over 100,000 and there are quite a few upstate. The NJTA might have their reasons for doing things, but there's a reason why the rest of the world doesn't use separate truck-car carriageways (or jughandles, if we include NJDOT).

Actually the big question is why does not any other state follow New Jersey's lead. 

All right the dual carriageway configuration is a problem when one roadway is shut down or narrowed down completely due to an accident, but all it really needs is some crossovers at certain intervals to allow traffic to go between the two roadways.  Sort of like the GSP has in Holmdel between the two roadways of the Parkway.

Now with the dual configuration going for quite some distance it keeps you on the one roadway for several miles as you have to go from Exit 6 to Exit 14, so if an accident happens right after the split in Mansfield where its just less than a mile after the split you have all 6 lanes of traffic on the one 3 lane roadway for more than 50 miles.  Most of that stretch is done post accident as well.  If you had crossovers at regular intervals the cars and trucks/ busses can split again and you have your regular flow.

[02 Park Ave]

One could do a "drive-through" at a service area to change carriageways.

[vdeane]

Actually the big question is why does not any other state follow New Jersey's lead.

A few reasons I can think of:
-The current Smart Growth emphasis
-Environmental and urban justice groups making it harder to build infrastructure than in the past
-ROW costs
-Increasing emphasis on preserving existing infrastructure rather than expanding capacity
-The fact that most states haven't had all their municipalities blend together into a sea of suburban sprawl

Anyways, the tendency of NJ to use permanent infrastructure for temporary traffic patterns seems to be a statewide thing - this isn't the only project I've seen it on.  Seems to be a waste of money to me.  Why build something that would last for 50 years if you're only going to use it for a tiny fraction of that time?

[roadman65]

Actually the jug handles are really smart when you think about it.  It keeps the slow traffic to the right and the left lane for traveling freely.  With left turn breaks in median allowing left turns and traffic to enter from the left creates slowdowns in both lanes and the need to switch lanes constantly!  I only wish Florida would use them it would make traffic a lot easier especially on Orange Blossom Trail.

There is one jug handle movement that makes no sense which is in Laurence Harbor, NJ on EB Laurence Parkway where it branches into a one way couplet at NJ 35.  No left turns are permitted onto NJ 35 NB which makes no sense being that there is another signal on the WB Laurence Parkway and NJ 35 intersection that would stop vehicles from crossing paths with WB Laurence Parkway. So there is no conflict there, however NJDOT wants you to go across NJ 35 and then go one block ahead to turn left so that you go one block over to WB Laurence Parkway and then turnabout back to NJ 35 and then turn right to go north. Somewhat like a Michigan Left, but with side streets.

Also you have some jug handles on two lane roads as well.  US 40 WB approaching NJ 47 in Malaga. To stay on US 40 one must go past the intersection and loop around in a reverse jug handle to turn left onto the NJ 47 SB/ US 40 duplex.  Then NJ 94 in La Fayette has a reverse jughandle where NB NJ 94 leaves SB NJ 15 where the NJ 15/ NJ 94 duplex is also two lanes.  I am sure there are others, but on two lane roads the need for a set up like this is totally useless.

[PHLBOS]

Southbound Turnpike Lanes are now open for business on the Turnpike between Exits 6 and 9!

As of last night (Nov. 9) there's still only two lanes open along the outer southbound roadway between Exit 9 and the Molly Pitcher Service Plaza.  The additional lane has not yet been striped as such; it still looks like a very large breakdown lane/shoulder. 

I was taken back a bit when I still saw the RIGHT LANE ENDS 1200 FT. BYS along the road.  I originally thought the sign was left erected/not covered up by mistake.

I'm hoping that the outer southbound roadway between Exit 9 and Molly Pitcher will be restriped to 3 full lanes soon.  I'll be using it again on Nov. 30.

How far south of Exit 6 does the Turnpike reduce back to a conventional 6-laner?  There's no signs indicating such for the through-southbound Turnpike traffic at the interchange itself.  Typically, I never use the Turnpike south of Exit 6.

[Zeffy]

How far south of Exit 6 does the Turnpike reduce back to a conventional 6-laner?  There's no signs indicating such for the through-southbound Turnpike traffic at the interchange itself.  Typically, I never use the Turnpike south of Exit 6.

Just by looking at the satellite view on Google Maps, I want to say near the overpass of CR 543.

[vdeane]

Southbound Turnpike Lanes are now open for business on the Turnpike between Exits 6 and 9!

As of last night (Nov. 9) there's still only two lanes open along the outer southbound roadway between Exit 9 and the Molly Pitcher Service Plaza.  The additional lane has not yet been striped as such; it still looks like a very large breakdown lane/shoulder. 

I was taken back a bit when I still saw the RIGHT LANE ENDS 1200 FT. BYS along the road.  I originally thought the sign was left erected/not covered up by mistake.

I'm hoping that the outer southbound roadway between Exit 9 and Molly Pitcher will be restriped to 3 full lanes soon.  I'll be using it again on Nov. 30.

Make me wonder if this house (made famous by Looking for America on the New Jersey Turnpke - they even had a yard before the truck lanes were built; now they're just four feet from the sound wall) has anything to do with that.

[PHLBOS]

Make me wonder if this house (made famous by Looking for America on the New Jersey Turnpke - they even had a yard before the truck lanes were built; now they're just four feet from the sound wall) has anything to do with that.

Unless you were joking when you made that post, I don't think so for several reasons:

1.  The fore-mentioned 2-lane stretch runs for miles (essentially the length of the earlier 1985-90 alteration that extended the dual-carriageways down to Molly Pitcher in the first place).

2.  There are already newly erected permanent signs along that strech prohibiting trucks & busses from using the left lane.  Such signs aren't erected when there's only two lanes of travel.

3.  The addtional paving work is already done.  The location of the associated sound walls were likely located in a manner that would accomodate the extra lanes when such was originally erected during the fore-mentioned 1985-90 alteration.

My guess is that the NJTA wanted to finish off the area where the dual carriage lanes previously merged first prior to opening up & striping that additional southbound lane.

[Alps]

Southbound Turnpike Lanes are now open for business on the Turnpike between Exits 6 and 9!

As of last night (Nov. 9) there's still only two lanes open along the outer southbound roadway between Exit 9 and the Molly Pitcher Service Plaza.  The additional lane has not yet been striped as such; it still looks like a very large breakdown lane/shoulder. 

I was taken back a bit when I still saw the RIGHT LANE ENDS 1200 FT. BYS along the road.  I originally thought the sign was left erected/not covered up by mistake.

I'm hoping that the outer southbound roadway between Exit 9 and Molly Pitcher will be restriped to 3 full lanes soon.  I'll be using it again on Nov. 30.

How far south of Exit 6 does the Turnpike reduce back to a conventional 6-laner?  There's no signs indicating such for the through-southbound Turnpike traffic at the interchange itself.  Typically, I never use the Turnpike south of Exit 6.

I had been assuming they would stripe for 3 lanes this past weekend. They certainly want/need it done by Thanksgiving, so that means sometime within the next week most likely, weather dependent.
As for how far south of Exit 6, there's a good mile and a half before you get to the merge. Exit 6 is MP 52, and the merge hovers around MP 50.

[mtantillo]

That's what happens when you construct a permanent roadway for a temporary traffic pattern.  NYSDOT usually uses cheap pavement and orange wooden construction signage that's easy to remove.

How often has New York expanded a 2 roadway, 6 lane highway to a 4 roadway, 12 lane highway?  And of those highways, how many have an ADT of over 100,000 vehicles?

Did you say none?  OK then.  Come back to us when you have a more relevant example.  I'm sure a few days of traffic congestion is worth the price to pay for 5 years of road construction which barely impeded normal travel.

That's a bit harsh. The question is why you'd need to expand so much so quickly. No other road in the world has the same exact setup, but you're forgetting about the LIE and Northern State Parkway/Grand Central Parkway, which effectively function the same way with a combined AADT of well over 300,000 at parts.

Again, New York (and most other places in North America) uses other methods to increase capacity that are lower in cost. The New Jersey Turnpike method does little more than separate cars and trucks, in effect creating two lanes out of six that are for slow drivers instead of one and trapping people if an accident occurs. Yeah, one roadway will move freely, but the impacted one will come to a standstill if 2 lanes are closed. Funneling 3 lanes into 1 does more damage than having all 6 lanes merge into two. That's just traffic flow theory. And what if something happens on the truck lanes? They can't even get around a mess.

It would be one thing if the inner lanes were express lanes. But they aren't. New York has several highways with an AADT of well over 100,000 and there are quite a few upstate. The NJTA might have their reasons for doing things, but there's a reason why the rest of the world doesn't use separate truck-car carriageways (or jughandles, if we include NJDOT).

Actually the big question is why does not any other state follow New Jersey's lead. 

All right the dual carriageway configuration is a problem when one roadway is shut down or narrowed down completely due to an accident, but all it really needs is some crossovers at certain intervals to allow traffic to go between the two roadways.  Sort of like the GSP has in Holmdel between the two roadways of the Parkway.

Now with the dual configuration going for quite some distance it keeps you on the one roadway for several miles as you have to go from Exit 6 to Exit 14, so if an accident happens right after the split in Mansfield where its just less than a mile after the split you have all 6 lanes of traffic on the one 3 lane roadway for more than 50 miles.  Most of that stretch is done post accident as well.  If you had crossovers at regular intervals the cars and trucks/ busses can split again and you have your regular flow.

If this situation really occurred, they would likely shut down the roadway with the accident and then "rebalance traffic through attrition"...
-At the split, direct all traffic onto the roadway without the accident.
-If there is an interchange prior to the accident, all traffic entering from that interchange will be forced onto the roadway without the accident.
-Beyond the accident, all traffic entering from subsequent interchanges will be forced to take the roadway where the accident occurred. This means as you pass each interchange, some traffic gets off the "non accident" roadway, and any entering traffic enters the "accident" roadway downstream from the accident. Gradually volumes get re-balanced as you pass each interchange.
-Eventually you get to the point where volumes are balanced and normal operations can occur.
-The NJ Turnpike Authority has plenty of statistics for usage and probably has a good idea of how much traffic gets on and off at any given point at any given time. They can figure out how far away from the accident they need to "balance" things out by forcing all traffic into one roadway or another to essentially get things flowing normally again.

This is not to say there won't be bad traffic leading up to the accident (there always is on any roadway), but they actually seem to do a decent job of balancing traffic volumes most of the time.

I've actually seen where they do the opposite...really bad crash near the end of the dual-dual section, but they are able to get at least one lane by the crash. So you "starve" that roadway of traffic without closing it off completely.

Here are a few points to consider before mocking the design choices of those at the NJ Turnpike.
-The new design at the south end is a lot more favorable to having one roadway closed than the old design. I've been in situations where the car lanes are completely closed, and having to merge from 3 lanes into 2 to get into the diverge only to go back to 3 lanes was incredibly annoying. Now the new setup has it so all lanes form prior to the split, and there is no point where less than 3 lanes are available for all thru traffic coming north from Exit 5 to proceed onto one or the other roadway.
-When there is a crash, traffic is horrible, because lanes are ending suddenly in places where people aren't expecting it. In many cases, I'm convinced that having 3 "unaffected" lanes and 3 closed lanes on different roadways is better than having 4 open lanes and 2 closed lanes on the same roadway, where all traffic has to navigate past the incident scene. At least if some lanes are segregated, the people driving in those lanes will be directed by traffic control devices designed for permanent use by engineers, as opposed to ones randomly set up by incident responders.
-Incident responders get killed working in traffic on a regular basis. It is much safer for them to shut one of the roadways down. In addition to keeping responders safer, the responders can probably clear the crash a lot quicker since they don't have to worry about traffic control.
-Yes, it sucks to get stuck in a situation where you have a whole roadway shut down on the Turnpike. But I'm convinced that it helps them do construction and clear crashes faster, meaning that even though you got stuck, thousands of others after you won't be stuck. Likewise, if a crash happened hours ago, you won't have to suffer because they cleared it quickly.
-And finally, trucks and cars don't really get along very well sometimes. Cars don't like dealing with trucks, truck drivers don't like dealing with cars. On a road with a craptastic amount of trucks like the NJ Turnpike, the segregation is nice. On weekdays and overnights when trucks rule the road, trucks have one roadway, cars have the other (and car drivers would be stupid to use the truck lanes). On weekends when there are fewer trucks and lots of cars, those who don't mind driving with trucks can take the truck lanes for an easier ride.
-

[SignBridge]

Has anyone noticed that the new northbound split has different legend on the VMS's than the old split had?

The signs at the old split said: TURNPIKE DIVIDES, 1 MILE AHEAD, ALL TRUCKS AND BUSSES, KEEP RIGHT.

The new signs change the word TURNPIKE to ROADWAY and omit the word ALL.

Minor changes, but I liked the old signs better. They had larger lettering and a more positive message.

[vdeane]

Make me wonder if this house (made famous by Looking for America on the New Jersey Turnpke - they even had a yard before the truck lanes were built; now they're just four feet from the sound wall) has anything to do with that.

Unless you were joking when you made that post, I don't think so for several reasons:

1.  The fore-mentioned 2-lane stretch runs for miles (essentially the length of the earlier 1985-90 alteration that extended the dual-carriageways down to Molly Pitcher in the first place).

2.  There are already newly erected permanent signs along that strech prohibiting trucks & busses from using the left lane.  Such signs aren't erected when there's only two lanes of travel.

3.  The addtional paving work is already done.  The location of the associated sound walls were likely located in a manner that would accomodate the extra lanes when such was originally erected during the fore-mentioned 1985-90 alteration.

My guess is that the NJTA wanted to finish off the area where the dual carriage lanes previously merged first prior to opening up & striping that additional southbound lane.

To be honest, I've been waiting for Google Maps to update the satellite imagery and street view in the area because I had no clue how they'd be able to fit another lane in while maintaining the shoulder width without tearing the neighborhood down.

[cl94]

Make me wonder if this house (made famous by Looking for America on the New Jersey Turnpke - they even had a yard before the truck lanes were built; now they're just four feet from the sound wall) has anything to do with that.

Unless you were joking when you made that post, I don't think so for several reasons:

1.  The fore-mentioned 2-lane stretch runs for miles (essentially the length of the earlier 1985-90 alteration that extended the dual-carriageways down to Molly Pitcher in the first place).

2.  There are already newly erected permanent signs along that strech prohibiting trucks & busses from using the left lane.  Such signs aren't erected when there's only two lanes of travel.

3.  The addtional paving work is already done.  The location of the associated sound walls were likely located in a manner that would accomodate the extra lanes when such was originally erected during the fore-mentioned 1985-90 alteration.

My guess is that the NJTA wanted to finish off the area where the dual carriage lanes previously merged first prior to opening up & striping that additional southbound lane.

To be honest, I've been waiting for Google Maps to update the satellite imagery and street view in the area because I had no clue how they'd be able to fit another lane in while maintaining the shoulder width without tearing the neighborhood down.

I've been waiting for everything Turnpike-related to update for a couple reasons:

• What was already stated
• GSV to see if they really are adopting MUTCD-standard signage

Having no reason to be anywhere near South Jersey, I really am curious as to how things are going. GSV has allowed me to see quite a few other projects, but everything over there is 2 years old.

[SignBridge]

The newly erected signs in the newly widened area (Exits 6 to 9) are not  MUTCD compliant having been designed before NJTA decided to go with MUTCD, as has been pointed out previously. But though they use the conventional NJT format,  they are the bright, reflective green and not the dark green used on the previous generation of NJT signs.

BTW you can see at least one display of new MUTCD signs northbound on the eastern leg at Exit-15X. 

[vdeane]

GSV to see if they really are adopting MUTCD-standard signage

[cl94]

GSV to see if they really are adopting MUTCD-standard signage

If the exit tabs were a couple inches to the leftt, they'd look just like NYSDOT/NYSTA signs. I never thought I'd see that in New Jersey.

[PHLBOS]

To be honest, I've been waiting for Google Maps to update the satellite imagery and street view in the area because I had no clue how they'd be able to fit another lane in while maintaining the shoulder width without tearing the neighborhood down.

Valerie, during the previous 1985-90 widening contract, the right-of-way to accomodate those additional 3 southbound lanes (plus the shoulder) was more than likely already established.  It was just only paved for 2 lanes plus the shoulder until the current widening contract.  Such was done in anticipation for a then-future widening and to avoid any additional (& more costly) land takings.

As I stated previously, the pavement widening for that additional lane has already taken place.  It just needs to be restriped for such.

Long story short, the neighborhood's not be torn down.