Interstate 11 alignment, though Vegas and points north

[mgk920]

" For [ I-11 ] / FOLLOW [ US 95 ] to Carson City /(and/or) Reno "

Mike

[US 395]

So I saw another I-11 sign assembly on current 515. It is between Russell Road (65) and Galleria (64B) going southbound. I pointed it out to my wife and she said the shield can be changed to 11 but Vegas people will call it 95 regardless (she's from Vegas).

Nice! That one wasn't there on March 17 when I was last in the area.

I would say it was installed within the past month or so. There have been some overhead sign replacements so I think they went ahead and changed out the shield on that assembly.

[cl94]

When the legislature is in session the Vegas legislators themselves pile up the frequent flier miles on Southwest Airlines, which runs up to about 10 round trips a day between Reno and Las Vegas.

And that's a stupidly cheap route. 1 hour flight vs 7 hour drive isn't a big decision for most people, especially when that flight is $100 round trip.

[pderocco]

How exactly do you remove a gravel road when the unimproved ground surface in an area is basically gravel? It seems like, short of running a barrier of some kind over it, it would be pretty difficult to avoid people making their own RIRO access point if they really wanted one there.

That's what r/w fencing is for.

I thought it was mostly to keep animals out.

[pderocco]

I have never heard anybody locally argue that we need a freeway connection down to Vegas.  If a politician proposed that the political value would be to their opponent who would deride it as a colossal waste of money.

If it was in California, they'd be proposing a bullet train.

[cl94]

I have never heard anybody locally argue that we need a freeway connection down to Vegas.  If a politician proposed that the political value would be to their opponent who would deride it as a colossal waste of money.

If it was in California, they'd be proposing a bullet train.

I mean, high-speed rail has been proposed as a better way to link the two than a freeway...but via the Central Valley. The Nevada State Rail Plan included such a possibility last I checked.

[triplemultiplex]

How exactly do you remove a gravel road when the unimproved ground surface in an area is basically gravel? It seems like, short of running a barrier of some kind over it, it would be pretty difficult to avoid people making their own RIRO access point if they really wanted one there.

That's what r/w fencing is for.

I thought it was mostly to keep animals out.

In most cases, it's to keep people out.  After all, deer can easily leap the standard r/w fencing you see in most places.
Now there are exceptions.  Some western states put taller fences along interstates in areas where they're trying to funnel migrating elk thru undercrossings.  But for the most part, the r/w fence is intended as a barrier for humans and their vehicles, be they road-legal or of the off-road variety.

[Scott5114]

How exactly do you remove a gravel road when the unimproved ground surface in an area is basically gravel? It seems like, short of running a barrier of some kind over it, it would be pretty difficult to avoid people making their own RIRO access point if they really wanted one there.

That's what r/w fencing is for.

I thought it was mostly to keep animals out.

A driver is a type of animal.

[roadfro]

I-11 new signage is appearing almost like they can only produce five shields a week and they throw darts at a dartboard in the NDOT conference room to decide where they'll go.

I kinda agree with this. It doesn't really seem like they're being very comprehensive with their replacements.

I was in Vegas a few days ago for a work event which took me out southeast along I-515, so I took a bit of time after the event to do some I-11 shield hunting. Folks have already reported in this thread some of the one-off installations along the mainline. But what I found interesting was side street treatments. 

At every interchange from Galleria Drive north through Flamingo Road, they have replaced the entire Freeway Entrance sign packages with new sign packages that include I-11 shields instead of I-515 shields. However, they have only replaced the freeway entrance sign packages at ramp entrances—any other shield assemblies at the interchanges, BGSs on the side street approaches, or traffic signal street name signs at the ramp terminals still show I-515. So that resulted in oddities like at the Tropicana interchange where the sign package on the left had an I-11 shield but the one in the median still has an I-515 shield.

Nothing had been replaced at Boulder Highway. Some signs had been replaced at Charleston, due to the interchange reconstruction project there. The Eastern exit was closed when I went through, so didn't get to check that one. Las Vegas Blvd had no changes when I went through a few days prior. I also didn't see anything changed at Sunset.


Semi-related:

• Several overhead signs on the freeway mainline have been replaced, especially along the stretch between Charleston & Russell. The BGSs approaching Tropicana Ave making reference to McCarran Airport have been updated to Harry Reid Airport instead.
• Found some I-515-related signage on northbound Stephanie St approaching Russell Road (that could get forgotten about during the changeover, since it's a bit away from the freeway). This includes a rare instance (for Nevada, at least) of an incorrect shield—in this case, a green sign directing traffic to "US 515".

[jmacswimmer]

Was also in Vegas late last week as part of a larger roadtrip, and noticed the same scattered replacements that have been discussed the past few pages. All signage on I-15 southbound approaching exit 42 has been updated to I-11, but none northbound. Meanwhile along I-515, I was noticing the same thing with some shield assemblies randomly updated to I-11 here & there but others still remaining as I-515 (for now).

A few quick pics approaching exit 42 southbound (I missed getting this ramp signage from the mainline, but the replacements have I-11 shields for both directions which might be the first signed reference to I-11 continuing across I-15?):

[Sub-Urbanite]

NDOT posted the contract for the I-11 signing. A few notes:

1. There appears to be no "End 11" shield northbound past Kyle Canyon Road. There's a North 11/95 shield past the SR 157 onramp.

2. CONTROL CITIES GONE WILD. NDOT's ongoing cacophony of control cities for I-11 continues. Southbound, you'll find Las Vegas, Henderson, Boulder City, Phoenix and Needles all listed on overhead signs. (Get a little further south, past this project, and Kingman is also a control city – 6 cities in a 40 mile stretch.) Northbound, Las Vegas, Tonopah and Reno all make appearances, sometimes in combination, sometimes on their own. (Ely also appears on some NB 93 signs.)

I don't necessarily blame NDOT, but the FHWA guidance to go to only one control city per sign when possible really screws things up, when clearly there is a need for 2 for most of southbound I-11 past downtown Las Vegas.

[vdeane]

2. CONTROL CITIES GONE WILD. NDOT's ongoing cacophony of control cities for I-11 continues. Southbound, you'll find Las Vegas, Henderson, Boulder City, Phoenix and Needles all listed on overhead signs. (Get a little further south, past this project, and Kingman is also a control city – 6 cities in a 40 mile stretch.) Northbound, Las Vegas, Tonopah and Reno all make appearances, sometimes in combination, sometimes on their own. (Ely also appears on some NB 93 signs.)

I don't necessarily blame NDOT, but the FHWA guidance to go to only one control city per sign when possible really screws things up, when clearly there is a need for 2 for most of southbound I-11 past downtown Las Vegas.

Do they really need all those control cities?  Henderson probably shouldn't be there, given how local it is.  Boulder City is questionable as well, but has some value for tourists heading to the Hoover Dam.  Of two minds about Kingman; it's minor, but it's also the I-40 junction.  Las Vegas and Phoenix are obvious.  Needles should definitely NOT be there as I-11 is the primary route, not US 95.  If they want to put in Henderson and Needles, that's what supplemental signage and mileage signs are for.

[DenverBrian]

At Exit 42, they managed a single control city. Phoenix southbound; Reno northbound. Makes the most logical sense.

[roadfro]

NDOT posted the contract for the I-11 signing. A few notes:

1. There appears to be no "End 11" shield northbound past Kyle Canyon Road. There's a North 11/95 shield past the SR 157 onramp.

2. CONTROL CITIES GONE WILD. NDOT's ongoing cacophony of control cities for I-11 continues. Southbound, you'll find Las Vegas, Henderson, Boulder City, Phoenix and Needles all listed on overhead signs. (Get a little further south, past this project, and Kingman is also a control city – 6 cities in a 40 mile stretch.) Northbound, Las Vegas, Tonopah and Reno all make appearances, sometimes in combination, sometimes on their own. (Ely also appears on some NB 93 signs.)

I don't necessarily blame NDOT, but the FHWA guidance to go to only one control city per sign when possible really screws things up, when clearly there is a need for 2 for most of southbound I-11 past downtown Las Vegas.

NDOT Contract 4511 if anyone is curious. I just spent the last hour looking at the signing plans.

They're basically replacing a lot of the signage in kind. It seems like for the most part they may be working off of as-built drawings, with minor alterations to existing designs only to accommodate the shield changes and other minor updates in standards (e.g. using full size diagonal up arrows in an exit only panel instead of the shorter arrows NDOT has used in the past, which appears to be NDOT SOP now) or fixes to decrease ambiguity (e.g. change to arrow type or placement). So with that, they are perpetuating all the wackiness with control cities that has come over the years. That's too bad, as this is really a good opportunity to unify some of that.

A few surprising things as I looked at the plans:

• Agreed on the lack of "End I-11" shields on northbound I-11 at Kyle Canyon interchange. But to be fair, I don't think NDOT has ever signed an interstate end except the old southbound end of I-515 at Railroad Pass...there's never been an end sign for I-515 north, and there's never been any end signage posted for I-580 in Reno or Carson City either.
• I-11 North being signed at the Kyle Canyon Rd interchange. The interstate ends there, so it makes no sense to sign I-11 north here at this time.
• There are several locations in the signing plans where an existing I-515/US-93/US-95 or US-95 side street sign assembly is being left undisturbed. I also noticed that several of the new assemblies that I mentioned in my last post are not shown in the plans at all. So I can only assume that the assemblies marked as "do not disturb" are going to be addressed by other projects.
• It seems like they are replacing some overhead BGSs that are not that old. (For example, these signs at the Kyle Canyon Interchange which I don't think are more than 5 years old and were clearly fabricated with I-11 shields covered up, are being completely replaced.) In some cases, these may be signs that are already peeling kinda badly.
• There's a few BGSs where the design shows the I-11 shield with cardinal direction to the right, and then the US 95 shield below. (e.g. I-11 North on one line then a 95 shield on the next line directly below the 11 shield—this is intended to direct to both I-11 and US 95 north.) This is a very odd design choice, especially when there is space to lay out the shields in a less ambiguous manner.

One other interesting observation: They are replacing a few BGSs on the freeway mainline that are not related to the I-11 changeover, primarily US 95 signs for the Rancho Dr and I-15 exits—a few of these are peeling badly so the replacement is needed. But it's interesting to note that there isn't any update to exit numbers on these signs. So that is indicating to me that NDOT has no immediate plans to update exit numbers or mileposts for I-11. It was a few years after completing I-580 before NDOT changed out the exit numbers on I-580 in Reno to reflect 580 mileage instead of US 395, so I'm guessing they'll do something like that here—but it seems like they really should have planned to do this all at once.

[roadfro]

2. CONTROL CITIES GONE WILD. NDOT's ongoing cacophony of control cities for I-11 continues. Southbound, you'll find Las Vegas, Henderson, Boulder City, Phoenix and Needles all listed on overhead signs. (Get a little further south, past this project, and Kingman is also a control city – 6 cities in a 40 mile stretch.) Northbound, Las Vegas, Tonopah and Reno all make appearances, sometimes in combination, sometimes on their own. (Ely also appears on some NB 93 signs.)

I don't necessarily blame NDOT, but the FHWA guidance to go to only one control city per sign when possible really screws things up, when clearly there is a need for 2 for most of southbound I-11 past downtown Las Vegas.

I don't think "Las Vegas" is used southbound, but you do see "Downtown LV" from US 95 and I-15 north.

Do they really need all those control cities?  Henderson probably shouldn't be there, given how local it is.  Boulder City is questionable as well, but has some value for tourists heading to the Hoover Dam.  Of two minds about Kingman; it's minor, but it's also the I-40 junction.  Las Vegas and Phoenix are obvious.  Needles should definitely NOT be there as I-11 is the primary route, not US 95.  If they want to put in Henderson and Needles, that's what supplemental signage and mileage signs are for.

Note that there is exactly one southbound pull-through sign on existing I-515, which is just south of the I-15 interchange (and it uses Phoenix). The next one you'll see is outside the Las Vegas Valley on the outskirts of Boulder City, erected as part of the I-11 Boulder City Bypass project at the split of US 93 BUS (this one uses Kingman). All the others you see are on side streets, or on the I-215/SR 546 (the only place Boulder City is used).

Similarly, northbound you'll only see one pull-through sign on I-515, and it's right in the I-15 interchange (Tonopah and Reno appear here).

With that said, I agree that all these different city uses are a bit much, and they're just perpetuating the issue with this sign replacement. Reno and Phoenix would be my suggestions. You could use "Downtown LV" and "Henderson" or "Boulder City" as supplementals depending on location.

[Plutonic Panda]

Hoover Dam, I-40, and Phoenix would be better control cities lol. How much of that traffic is going elsewhere?

[vdeane]

But it's interesting to note that there isn't any update to exit numbers on these signs. So that is indicating to me that NDOT has no immediate plans to update exit numbers or mileposts for I-11. It was a few years after completing I-580 before NDOT changed out the exit numbers on I-580 in Reno to reflect 580 mileage instead of US 395, so I'm guessing they'll do something like that here—but it seems like they really should have planned to do this all at once.

Yuck.  I can understand with I-580 since the exit numbers there were consistent even if they didn't start at I-580's mile 0, and changing them resulted in US 395 having two sets of numbers, but that doesn't apply here.  The physical roadway already has multiple sets of exit numbers, changing them for I-11 would make things more sane, and they already changed the numbers on former I-515 for I-11, so why wait?