New Jersey

[jeffandnicole]

Maybe it'll make for an interesting piece of fodder for a day, but I'll hardly call it an embarrassment or a story people will remember for any period of time.

[mrsman]

I've mentioned this many pages back & I will state such again: the currently-proposed direction cardinal changes for the stretch of I-95 that will become I-295 makes absolutely no sense; and, mark my words & bet your bottom dollar, once signs start popping up that read "295 NORTH Philadelphia" news organizations will broadcast such to literally embarrass the decision-makers regarding such.

If 295 is to be used: the solution is obvious; keep the PA stretch as north-south and make the NJ stretch between the PA border & US 1 as east-west but continue the mile marker/interchange numbers as if the direction cardinals don't change.  Since the road in this area acts like a beltway; there is precedence for to do such.

Otherwise & as others (myself included) have suggested; redesignate the 95 stretch as separate 3di (I-695 would be my choice).  Such would actually eliminate any need for NJDOT to alter the mile-markers/interchange numbers along that particular stretch.  Since many are already used to the highway changing numbers at the US 1 interchange (since 1994); resigning I-95 south as I-695 west would likely not be a big deal.

Historical side note: prior to the Interstate system, this highway was originally planned as NJ 129 (saw this on an old 1957 layout plan for Trenton-Mercer Airport (TTN)) & such probably would've been signed as an east-west road had the Interstate Highway Act not happened.

It's interesting that NJDOT's including changes to the I-195/295 & US 206 interchange numbers as well.  Such are independent of the I-95/295 stretch and IMHO should've been 1A-B-C-D from the get-go.

Totally agree and I know that I've said similar on some post in a relevant thread several years ago.  I also like I-695, since I see this as being very similar tot the situation in the SFO Bay area.  I-280 is a N-S interstate on the west side of the Bay (SF-San Jose), that curves around and then at US 101 becomes another N-S interstate on the east side of the Bay area that is numbered I-680 (Cordelia-San Jose).

Here, it would be nice, but not critical if I-95 had a northbound control city of NYC from Philly to I-276.  At the PA Tpk interchange, NYC must be the control for I-95 north and Trenton/Princteton should be the control for I-695 north.  From US 1, US 1 should have the control of Morrisville/Trenton and I-695 should have the control of Princeton. As the road rounds the corner and continues as I-295 south of US 1, the new control should be Camden as is the current practice.

[jeffandnicole]

295 South's control is Delaware and/or Del. Mem. Br., not Camden.

[Alps]

295 South's control is Delaware and/or Del. Mem. Br., not Camden.

Should be Camden until Camden, then Wilmington to match NJTP.

[jeffandnicole]

295 South's control is Delaware and/or Del. Mem. Br., not Camden.

Should be Camden until Camden, then Wilmington to match NJTP.

The NJ Turnpike should've matched 295 since they were first with the control points, current rules notwithstanding.

[Alps]

295 South's control is Delaware and/or Del. Mem. Br., not Camden.

Should be Camden until Camden, then Wilmington to match NJTP.

The NJ Turnpike should've matched 295 since they were first with the control points, current rules notwithstanding.

They did it right, they did it from scratch, and if 295 is breaking the rules, that's NJDOT's problem.

[PHLBOS]

295 South's control is Delaware and/or Del. Mem. Br., not Camden.

One known exception.

[jeffandnicole]

295 South's control is Delaware and/or Del. Mem. Br., not Camden.

One known exception.

When they built the missing 295 link, and Route 29, they all specified Camden, as if that would become the new control city.  Even the signs on 195 and 29 for 295 South point to Camden as well.  Yet, when they did a sign replacement on 295, they maintained Delaware/DMB as the control city/cities on every other pull-thru sign. 

[bzakharin]

295 South's control is Delaware and/or Del. Mem. Br., not Camden.

One known exception.

Last time I was there, Camden was the only control point signed up until Camden. It wasn't signed very frequently (though I could have sworn there was at least one more somewhere). In most places no control point was provided at all. Del Mem Br is signed somewhat more frequently south of Camden.

As for NJTP, I'm not sure why Camden is "right". NJTP is a long-distance road, while Camden is a local destination. 295 is the relatively local route, so Camden is fine there.

[jeffandnicole]

295 South's control is Delaware and/or Del. Mem. Br., not Camden.

One known exception.

Last time I was there, Camden was the only control point signed up until Camden. It wasn't signed very frequently (though I could have sworn there was at least one more somewhere). In most places no control point was provided at all. Del Mem Br is signed somewhat more frequently south of Camden.

As for NJTP, I'm not sure why Camden is "right". NJTP is a long-distance road, while Camden is a local destination. 295 is the relatively local route, so Camden is fine there.

Here's the overhead signage on 295 South approaching Rt. 70.  The problem using Camden as a pull-thru to I-76 is cases like there, where Rt. 70's destination cities also include Camden: https://goo.gl/maps/utyyyqyZP4z . The route is definitely shorter.  Congestion-wise can be a tossup, as both 70 and 295 are often congested at the same time.

[bzakharin]

You could also take the 73 exit to 38 or even the 38 exit for Camden, depending on congestion, so not signing Camden on 295 Pull-thrus beginning with Exit 40 is probably a good idea. Kind of like how they switch from Trenton to Princeton Northbound at the NJ 29 exit despite US 1 and US 206 (and I think some other exits in between) go to Trenton as well.

[jp the roadgeek]

I would say to have the SB control city change from Camden to Wilmington (Delaware, and especially Del Mem Br as control cities aren't MUTCD compliant) for Exit 34 (NJ 70).  70 is the most direct route into Camden, so that would be the best point. NB, it should be Camden/Trenton from the turnpike up to I-76, then Trenton only north of there.

Here is another crude representation on how to make SB signage MUTCD compliant:

[jeffandnicole]

You could also take the 73 exit to 38 or even the 38 exit for Camden, depending on congestion, so not signing Camden on 295 Pull-thrus beginning with Exit 40 is probably a good idea.

While true, the actual difference is NJDOT physically signs Camden for Rt. 70.  Exit 38 is simply signed for Moorestown.  If Camden was a pull-thru destination, it wouldn't be smart to make it disappear at an interchange where it's not signed for the exit.

I would say to have the SB control city change from Camden to Wilmington (Delaware, and especially Del Mem Br as control cities aren't MUTCD compliant) for Exit 34 (NJ 70).  70 is the most direct route into Camden, so that would be the best point. NB, it should be Camden/Trenton from the turnpike up to I-76, then Trenton only north of there.

Here is another crude representation on how to make SB signage MUTCD compliant:

The Del Mem logo isn't MUTCD compliant.

[mrsman]

295 South's control is Delaware and/or Del. Mem. Br., not Camden.

One known exception.

Last time I was there, Camden was the only control point signed up until Camden. It wasn't signed very frequently (though I could have sworn there was at least one more somewhere). In most places no control point was provided at all. Del Mem Br is signed somewhat more frequently south of Camden.

As for NJTP, I'm not sure why Camden is "right". NJTP is a long-distance road, while Camden is a local destination. 295 is the relatively local route, so Camden is fine there.

Here's the overhead signage on 295 South approaching Rt. 70.  The problem using Camden as a pull-thru to I-76 is cases like there, where Rt. 70's destination cities also include Camden: https://goo.gl/maps/utyyyqyZP4z . The route is definitely shorter.  Congestion-wise can be a tossup, as both 70 and 295 are often congested at the same time.

An interstate highway does not need to go into the control city, it just needs to get toward the control city, so long as there is adequate signage for the control city.

Here, good controls IMO for I-295 are Camden, Trenton, Princeton.  In fact, I-295 goes to none of them.  These are well-known mid-sized cities for NJ and are thus good control for I-295.  You can use I-295 to get toward Camden, Trenton, and Princeton - but you also have to take another highway to actually reach those cities.

As stated by others, I-295 north to Camden and then take I-76 the rest of the way.  I-295 north to Trenton and then take NJ 29 the rest of the way.  I-295 north to Princeton and then take US 1 (or US 206) the rest of the way.

[jeffandnicole]

At the base of the Delaware Memorial Bridge, 295 North is signed for Camden/Trenton.  https://goo.gl/maps/dWsNY4oeXSw .  However, that should link you to a GSV from a few years ago.  For the past year or more, that BGS has gone missing for some unknown reason.   The one before it still exists, and still says Camden/Trenton.

After that though, the next pull-thru sign is at Exit 14, where the road is shared by I-295/US 130, with Westville & Trenton as control cities.  Westville has a population of 4,200 people.  US 130 enters Camden.  So go figure...

The next pull-thru sign: At around Exit 21...where it's Camden/Trenton again. 

Westville is signed on the Exit 23 for US 130..  Camden is on the pull-thru sign, taking you to Exit 26. 

I've ranted my hatred for magic acts when it comes to Control Cities in other threads.  NJDOT has it down to an art form though.

[PHLBOS]

At the base of the Delaware Memorial Bridge, 295 North is signed for Camden/Trenton.  https://goo.gl/maps/dWsNY4oeXSw .  However, that should link you to a GSV from a few years ago.  For the past year or more, that BGS has gone missing for some unknown reason.   The one before it still exists, and still says Camden/Trenton.

After that though, the next pull-thru sign is at Exit 14, where the road is shared by I-295/US 130, with Westville & Trenton as control cities.  Westville has a population of 4,200 people.  US 130 enters Camden.  So go figure...

The next pull-thru sign: At around Exit 21...where it's Camden/Trenton again. 

Westville is signed on the Exit 23 for US 130..  Camden is on the pull-thru sign, taking you to Exit 26. 

I've ranted my hatred for magic acts when it comes to Control Cities in other threads.  NJDOT has it down to an art form though.

I believe the use of Westville on that I-295/US 130 North pull-through BGS at Exit 14 is due to such being the next city along US 130 after it exits off I-295 (at Exit 23).  IMHO, the use of such along w/Trenton is appropriate since it's treating I-295 & US 130 as two separate routes despite sharing the same corridor for a short distance; granted, one could argue that Westville/Camden combo at this location could also be used.

[jeffandnicole]

At the base of the Delaware Memorial Bridge, 295 North is signed for Camden/Trenton.  https://goo.gl/maps/dWsNY4oeXSw .  However, that should link you to a GSV from a few years ago.  For the past year or more, that BGS has gone missing for some unknown reason.   The one before it still exists, and still says Camden/Trenton.

After that though, the next pull-thru sign is at Exit 14, where the road is shared by I-295/US 130, with Westville & Trenton as control cities.  Westville has a population of 4,200 people.  US 130 enters Camden.  So go figure...

The next pull-thru sign: At around Exit 21...where it's Camden/Trenton again. 

Westville is signed on the Exit 23 for US 130..  Camden is on the pull-thru sign, taking you to Exit 26. 

I've ranted my hatred for magic acts when it comes to Control Cities in other threads.  NJDOT has it down to an art form though.

I believe the use of Westville on that I-295/US 130 North pull-through BGS at Exit 14 is due to such being the next city along US 130 after it exits off I-295 (at Exit 23).  IMHO, the use of such along w/Trenton is appropriate since it's treating I-295 & US 130 as two separate routes despite sharing the same corridor for a short distance; granted, one could argue that Westville/Camden combo at this location could also be used.

Actually, it's a Borough.  Sure, it's the next *municipality* on 130 after it splits off from 295, but that's all.

And to note the inconsistency compared to the Southbound direction: When 130 South meets 295 South, the signs on 295 state "295 South TO 130 South", even though it's actually 295/130 South.  And the Control Cities: Delaware/Del Mem Br.  No mention of a control city for 130 South.

[PHLBOS]

Actually, it's a Borough.  Sure, it's the next *municipality* on 130 after it splits off from 295, but that's all.

And such is all that's needed.  Let's be honest: barring an accident-related closure/jam-up along 295 or needing to make a stop in the Westville area; most heading to Camden from this area are going to stay on I-295 until I-76 West to pick up US 130 North rather than following it further south.

And to note the inconsistency compared to the Southbound direction: When 130 South meets 295 South, the signs on 295 state "295 South TO 130 South", even though it's actually 295/130 South.  And the Control Cities: Delaware/Del Mem Br.  No mention of a control city for 130 South.

I agree & will give you that one.  Bridgeport should've been used for the US 130 southbound control destination where it multiplexes w/I-295.

[Pete from Boston]

Big, broad, open ended question: with the recent structural emergency on the Newark Bay Bridge, what's the general consensus about this bridge's lifespan?  Lots of other truss bridges in the New York area, some admittedly older, are being scrapped in favor of modern, safer alternatives.  Is this even on anyone's radar?

[Alps]

Big, broad, open ended question: with the recent structural emergency on the Newark Bay Bridge, what's the general consensus about this bridge's lifespan?  Lots of other truss bridges in the New York area, some admittedly older, are being scrapped in favor of modern, safer alternatives.  Is this even on anyone's radar?

This is a new development, so I don't think there is a consensus. There have been options on the table to rehab this bridge and keep it with a parallel span (or spans), and there have been options to replace it entirely. The fact that rehab is on the table suggests it can continue to have a useful life, but unless major work is done, I don't think anyone would argue, it's at the end of its life just based on age, design parameters, and how often those parameters are exceeded by multiple hundreds of percent (traffic volumes more than triple design, vehicle weights and overweights more than double design, etc.).
How does this development affect things? Short and long answer is, we need to wait and see. Is this getting worse, is it systematic, is it easily curable? This will take months to suss out.

[Steve D]

Big, broad, open ended question: with the recent structural emergency on the Newark Bay Bridge, what's the general consensus about this bridge's lifespan?  Lots of other truss bridges in the New York area, some admittedly older, are being scrapped in favor of modern, safer alternatives.  Is this even on anyone's radar?

This is a new development, so I don't think there is a consensus. There have been options on the table to rehab this bridge and keep it with a parallel span (or spans), and there have been options to replace it entirely. The fact that rehab is on the table suggests it can continue to have a useful life, but unless major work is done, I don't think anyone would argue, it's at the end of its life just based on age, design parameters, and how often those parameters are exceeded by multiple hundreds of percent (traffic volumes more than triple design, vehicle weights and overweights more than double design, etc.).
How does this development affect things? Short and long answer is, we need to wait and see. Is this getting worse, is it systematic, is it easily curable? This will take months to suss out.

I believe this bridge is the same age (1956) and type as the PA Turnpike connector bridge and that bridge was (is?) to be twinned for the completion of I-95, so obviously there is a belief it can last many more years.

[roadman65]

You could also take the 73 exit to 38 or even the 38 exit for Camden, depending on congestion, so not signing Camden on 295 Pull-thrus beginning with Exit 40 is probably a good idea.

While true, the actual difference is NJDOT physically signs Camden for Rt. 70.  Exit 38 is simply signed for Moorestown.  If Camden was a pull-thru destination, it wouldn't be smart to make it disappear at an interchange where it's not signed for the exit.

I would say to have the SB control city change from Camden to Wilmington (Delaware, and especially Del Mem Br as control cities aren't MUTCD compliant) for Exit 34 (NJ 70).  70 is the most direct route into Camden, so that would be the best point. NB, it should be Camden/Trenton from the turnpike up to I-76, then Trenton only north of there.

Here is another crude representation on how to make SB signage MUTCD compliant:

The Del Mem logo isn't MUTCD compliant.

Come to Florida and see Miami disappear just south of Melbourne as West Palm becomes the city.  Go NB on I-95 and Daytona Beach disappears after Sebastian.  So the mileage signs keep you hanging there as Jacksonville takes over.  The Daytona Beach 55 sign is gone in Titusville that used to be a follow up to SR 528 and Port St. John Parkway using that location as a control city.

Go to Missouri and see how I-70 changes from Columbia to either Booneville, Wentzville, or some other small city along the way.  True it has no pull through signs but the mileage signs change long before you reach Columbia.  Also to note St. Louis is used in KC EB, but after you leave the metro Columbia becomes it.

Then Kansas signs Des Moines on I-35 as soon as you reach Olathe going NB, yet Kansas City which is used as far back as Wichita is not reached by a long shot.  In fact I-435 at its southern junction with its parent signs I-35 NB heading inside the Beltway as Des Moines too. Considering I-435 is a bypass it should be more local to get motorists to stay on the loop to avoid the big city in between.  Even Missouri signs I-435 with other interstate control destinations to keep through traffic out of Downtown KS.  Yet KDOT signs not even a control city on their part of the I-435 loop anywhere.

[Alps]

Big, broad, open ended question: with the recent structural emergency on the Newark Bay Bridge, what's the general consensus about this bridge's lifespan?  Lots of other truss bridges in the New York area, some admittedly older, are being scrapped in favor of modern, safer alternatives.  Is this even on anyone's radar?

This is a new development, so I don't think there is a consensus. There have been options on the table to rehab this bridge and keep it with a parallel span (or spans), and there have been options to replace it entirely. The fact that rehab is on the table suggests it can continue to have a useful life, but unless major work is done, I don't think anyone would argue, it's at the end of its life just based on age, design parameters, and how often those parameters are exceeded by multiple hundreds of percent (traffic volumes more than triple design, vehicle weights and overweights more than double design, etc.).
How does this development affect things? Short and long answer is, we need to wait and see. Is this getting worse, is it systematic, is it easily curable? This will take months to suss out.

I believe this bridge is the same age (1956) and type as the PA Turnpike connector bridge and that bridge was (is?) to be twinned for the completion of I-95, so obviously there is a belief it can last many more years.

Night and day. The PA Tpk. bridge sees far less traffic.

[storm2k]

Wait, what? A new I-78 overpass misspells Pattenburg Road

Take Exit 11 off Interstate 78 in New Jersey, and you might be headed for Pattenburg. That's what the signs say.

But if you continue on by, you pass under "Pattenbug Road." That's what the other, misspelled signs say.

Quality control, am I right?

[Roadgeek Adam]

Complaining about misspelled signs on the side of bridges is silly enough. A news article is even dumber. I mean seriously, how many people are reading those little small signs on the side of bridges?