New Jersey

[famartin]

So now we have the first signs in NJ besides the Parkway and Turnpike without the black backplate.  Anyone know if this is an aberration or if all new signs going forward will omit the backplate?  Is this done to confirm to MUTCD mandates?  Will NJ be replacing more BGS's?

Actually, NJDOT has gone backplate-less for a few years now on nearly all BGSs, as evidenced by this GSV from 2016. https://goo.gl/maps/1VMMZxTD3cdEnVt58 .  They've done a state-wide milepost installation on state roads, and they are without backplates as well.

All new signs are backplate-less, and the trend will continue.  There was a small green sign near me I noticed was replaced in this same manner just within the past month.

There were a handful of road sections where the new mileposts DID have backplates.  I believe NJ 495's mileposts have backplates, and a portion of 322's do too.  Here's one of the 322 ones.

[storm2k]

The left ramp for 202 & 206 needs to not steel all the through lanes (or is that changed at least?) as two lanes for the exit and only a single lane for the main line.  A lot of folks who drove that for the first time got confused and thought it was unusual to say the least.

The right exit for I-287 SB to US 22 EB can be done as both roads run parallel to each other there and before Foothill Road just have it depart cross over US 22 WB and its wide median to cross the EB lanes and merge from the right into a c/d roadway for the Finderne Avenue exit to stop weaving.  Though the overpass over US 22 EB for the SB I-287 would need to be widened and replaced as like you said that left EB US 22 exit for I-287 is a problem and needs a lot to fix it to put it on the right. 

The big thing is now the weave to Chimney Rock Road as the ramp departs US 22 EB right after the merge from 287 SB there.  IMO it should have a curb on both sides of US 22 there to defer it.

Actually I was referring to the NB exit from 287 to 22WB. I meant to say 14B instead of A. My mistake.

The 22 entrance ramp is mostly fine. The right lane of it flows into the exit only lane at 13 there. The middle lanes merge kind of awkwardly, but it's not the absolute worst. It starts on the left from 22, but does merge on the right onto 287 and there's usually enough room to speed up and merge in without much issue.

[storm2k]

Here's a random thought that has been on my mind. Why does NJDOT continue to do signs to both the Parkway and Turnpike entrances by using either "GS Parkway", "Garden State Pkwy" or "NJ Turnpike" as the "control cities" on those signs, instead of just relying on their shields to do the job? The NJTA has moved onto doing that, for the most part (even if the TA is weird about not just putting "New York" on all their NB signs at various places, or most pullthrus at exits). I also know that having some official control cities for the Parkway is a newer thing, but I still would like to see them sign exits to both with the standard practice of the route shield and actual control cities instead of what they do now. Just a thought on my part.

[Alps]

Here's a random thought that has been on my mind. Why does NJDOT continue to do signs to both the Parkway and Turnpike entrances by using either "GS Parkway", "Garden State Pkwy" or "NJ Turnpike" as the "control cities" on those signs, instead of just relying on their shields to do the job? The NJTA has moved onto doing that, for the most part (even if the TA is weird about not just putting "New York" on all their NB signs at various places, or most pullthrus at exits). I also know that having some official control cities for the Parkway is a newer thing, but I still would like to see them sign exits to both with the standard practice of the route shield and actual control cities instead of what they do now. Just a thought on my part.

Depends on whether the sign was done in-house, in which case it's likely to just copy the old legend blindly, or done as part of a contract, in which case it's up to the competency of the consultant and the engineer who reviews the plans.

[storm2k]

The last one with Paramus was already taken down and replaced with a full width BGS using Paterson and 3 down arrows (like at 105), likely for the construction at Exit 145. Using Paramus was a suggestion I made years ago here because the GSP actually goes there and have major junctions with other roadways...... unlike Paterson. Somebody clearly listened.

Apparently north of there the GSP can use Albany, but it hasn't been signed yet.

Drove up the Parkway to 145 the other day, so I got a picture of the replacement pullthru showing Paterson and not Paramus.

Also, the only place I've seen Albany is on a distance mileage sign that's near Exit 166 or so NB.

[PHLBOS]

Is there a reason why that GSP NORTH legend isn't properly aligned with the Paterson legend, let alone not centered with respect to the panel?

[roadman65]

Because this is New Jersey!


To answer your question it most likely has to do with carbon copying of when the Parkway first opened.  It was a road unique from the rest so being tolled they did not want to be accused of suckering people to use the new freeways of the time.  That is why in Keyport the places like The Amboys and New York are still signed on NJ 35 rather than the Parkway to this day (unless it changed since the last time I was there which jeff and alps will lecture me on posting things that are no longer true) .

Anyway, yes the Parkway in Woodbridge has side by side signs for the Turnpike and Parkway from US 9 and the Turnpike now has real cities over the "NJ Turnpike" signs while the Parkway North signs still have the redundant "GS Parkway" signs.   Its odd that the Parkway waited till now to finally go with the flow and even started to sign mileage signs which in the past never have done except for the ACE at the Raritan Toll Plaza and at 50 miles out in Brick Township. 

From US 9 in Woodbridge it should be "Newark" for the Parkway North and also with that aspect, "Newark" should be removed from Exit 130 and replaced with "Woodbridge" instead as you left that city just a while ago.  Ditto on I-287 nearby as posting Newark and Trenton in the shadow of the Turnpike there is crazy nowadays as well.  Though Trenton is iffy being the Turnpike really does not go there, but indirectly via I-195 and NJ 29.

[PHLBOS]

To answer your question it most likely has to do with carbon copying of when the Parkway first opened.

No offense but your carbon-copy/match-in-kind reasoning reply doesn't seem to apply for this particular application.

That pull-through BGS is very recent.  This Nov. 2018 GSV shows a properly arranged pull-through BGS (w/out down-arrows) listing Paramus as its control city.  This Paramus BGS was erected sometime in 2016.

Going further back to a Oct 2013 GSV shows an old-school yellow THRU TRAFFIC pull-through sign with three down-arrows.

Very odd.

[bzakharin]

Just saw a new ground-mounted reassurance assembly westbound on the Atlantic City Expressway around MP 14. It says WEST (white on blue) / TOLL (black on yellow)  / [ACE logo]. I don't think I've seen anything like it on the ACE before.

[jeffandnicole]

Just saw a new ground-mounted reassurance assembly westbound on the Atlantic City Expressway around MP 14. It says WEST (white on blue) / TOLL (black on yellow)  / [ACE logo]. I don't think I've seen anything like it on the ACE before.

Like this: https://goo.gl/maps/fUCHhAo1i7QE79eU8 ? This is the only one I've seen, for direction *to* the Expressway, but haven't seen one *on* the Expressway!

[storm2k]

Because this is New Jersey!


To answer your question it most likely has to do with carbon copying of when the Parkway first opened.  It was a road unique from the rest so being tolled they did not want to be accused of suckering people to use the new freeways of the time.  That is why in Keyport the places like The Amboys and New York are still signed on NJ 35 rather than the Parkway to this day (unless it changed since the last time I was there which jeff and alps will lecture me on posting things that are no longer true) .

Anyway, yes the Parkway in Woodbridge has side by side signs for the Turnpike and Parkway from US 9 and the Turnpike now has real cities over the "NJ Turnpike" signs while the Parkway North signs still have the redundant "GS Parkway" signs.   Its odd that the Parkway waited till now to finally go with the flow and even started to sign mileage signs which in the past never have done except for the ACE at the Raritan Toll Plaza and at 50 miles out in Brick Township. 

From US 9 in Woodbridge it should be "Newark" for the Parkway North and also with that aspect, "Newark" should be removed from Exit 130 and replaced with "Woodbridge" instead as you left that city just a while ago.  Ditto on I-287 nearby as posting Newark and Trenton in the shadow of the Turnpike there is crazy nowadays as well.  Though Trenton is iffy being the Turnpike really does not go there, but indirectly via I-195 and NJ 29.

It's the Turnpike Authority is the better answer for this situation. It's why you still see Metuchen signed as the control city for 287 NB at Exit 10, even though NJDOT has had Morristown and Mahwah as 287's control cities since the early 90s. It's a relic of when the current Exit 10 was built in the 60s and 287 didn't extend past 27 at that time. The TA has very little desire to update some of those things. Having actual control cities for the Turnpike and Parkway was almost as big of a change as actual MUTCD-like signage on the Turnpike.

[roadman65]

Yes Metuchen is also an odd pick, but Somerville was never even considered later on as that was the main control up till the early 90's when Morristown and Mahwah were both made the primary cities.

You figure being I-287 is the truck bypass of NYC from I-95 to I-87 it would be signed better.  Even the Parkway at 127 should really use Morristown (as Mahwah is better served by staying on the Parkway there) instead of Raritan Center (formerly Industrial Avenue) or even no control cities.

Yes the MUTCD forced the NJTA to conform to many standards hence the change in old large on sign exit numbers that made sort of a trademark.   However some of it is welcome like finally realizing the existence of NJ 495 at 16E and even signing I-95 with NJ Turnpike shields in many places.

I grew up in New Jersey and was always fascinated why the Turnpike and Parkway had their own signs, but made me more into roads as I always dreamed about what control cities should really be.  Even on free interstates which NJDOT never really signed them on ramps, but I have been seeing more and more of actual cities being used now since I left NJ in 1990.  I-78 has signs in Watchung on CR 531 at the parclo with I-78 showing Clinton and Newark finally. 

I guess I got more into roads because of NJDOT's lack of what other states have been doing as it gave me a chance to dream about what such changes would be made.  Though one still, as NJ Interstate mileage signs are signed like local highways with township names instead of familiar names {Hence Ewing over Trenton on I-295} where I would use (if I were an engineer assigned to handling that) larger freeway types of signs and would sign Camden and Trenton instead of Bellmawr and Ewing from its southern end.   Where north of the Del. Mem. Br.  I would first use Bridgeport (where US 322 meets is better than Paulsboro as the sign there first lists), Camden, and Trenton.  Then follow up after US 322 with Paulsboro as next first city with Camden and Trenton and then after Paulsboro use Westville with Camden and Trenton.  I basically would have more signs and more first listed places along the way including Cherry Hill north of the current I-295 construction at NJ 42/ I-76 project.

Even the owner of this forum chuckled on how NJDOT used little green all caps signs for mileages along the way when he photographed I-295.  NJ, IMO had its own unique way of doing things I liked while ironically liked to see it conform to the other 49 states ( I assumed at that time all 49 were doing) way of doing it.

[NJRoadfan]

Some South Jersey notes. NJ-55 is getting new gantries and overheads installed, so if you like button copy, you only got about a week until its gone. The new signs on the side of the road awaiting install are sans backplated shields too. Was NJDOT running some kind of signing test when they originally built NJ-55? Just about every interchange features "JCT" text next to the shield on the signs. Not something you usually see elsewhere. NJ-347 didn't receive upgraded mile markers, no surprise as its county maintained.

Traffic patterns on a weekday morning in the Philly suburbs are opposite of what I expect. I-295 was backed up northbound in the morning (at least from NJ-73 down to I-76). I was expecting more southbound traffic.

[jeffandnicole]

Some South Jersey notes. NJ-55 is getting new gantries and overheads installed, so if you like button copy, you only got about a week until its gone. The new signs on the side of the road awaiting install are sans backplated shields too. Was NJDOT running some kind of signing test when they originally built NJ-55? Just about every interchange features "JCT" text next to the shield on the signs. Not something you usually see elsewhere. NJ-347 didn't receive upgraded mile markers, no surprise as its county maintained.

Traffic patterns on a weekday morning in the Philly suburbs are opposite of what I expect. I-295 was backed up northbound in the morning (at least from NJ-73 down to I-76). I was expecting more southbound traffic.

NJDOT has a large signing project going on where they're replacing numerous signs and gantries on 55, 295 and other highways.

The JCT was just part of how they signed interchanges at the time.

295 traffic...and the region in general...has a lot of county-county commuting. On 295 traffic jams northbound going away from Philly in the morning, and is heavily congested going Southbound in the afternoon. However, the opposite direction is usually just a minor accident away from congestion every day. And the congested period is longer than one may expect for a suburban area. On days like Friday, I hit the afternoon rush hour congestion on 295 South at 42 at 1pm...and it probably began closer to noon.

Rt. 55 Northbound has increasingly seen congestion approaching Rt. 42 every weekday afternoon as well.

[Zeffy]

Sorry for the garbage dash-cam photos, but I saw these lying around heading into PA on the Scudders Falls Bridge. They've actually made a fair amount of work in the past couple of months.

[storm2k]

I don't like the North 295 to West 295 thing. Leave that off and just use the To South 95, or just 295 North Philadelphia.

[kevinb1994]

I don't like the North 295 to West 295 thing. Leave that off and just use the To South 95, or just 295 North Philadelphia.

Nice idea, but a directional change is something that should be pointed out on any BGS.

[roadman65]

I don't like the North 295 to West 295 thing. Leave that off and just use the To South 95, or just 295 North Philadelphia.

Nice idea, but a directional change is something that should be pointed out on any BGS.

Just say West I-295 To South I-95.

[kevinb1994]

I don't like the North 295 to West 295 thing. Leave that off and just use the To South 95, or just 295 North Philadelphia.

Nice idea, but a directional change is something that should be pointed out on any BGS.

Just say West I-295 To South I-95.

Yeah, that's a fair compromise.

[famartin]

I don't like the North 295 to West 295 thing. Leave that off and just use the To South 95, or just 295 North Philadelphia.

Nice idea, but a directional change is something that should be pointed out on any BGS.

Really? I've never seen such signed anywhere.

[kevinb1994]

I don't like the North 295 to West 295 thing. Leave that off and just use the To South 95, or just 295 North Philadelphia.

Nice idea, but a directional change is something that should be pointed out on any BGS.

Really? I've never seen such signed anywhere.

It's quite rare, but it can work should the need arise.

[jeffandnicole]

I don't like the North 295 to West 295 thing. Leave that off and just use the To South 95, or just 295 North Philadelphia.

Nice idea, but a directional change is something that should be pointed out on any BGS.

Just say West I-295 To South I-95.

Yeah, that's a fair compromise.

But you're not on 295 West at this point. You're on 295 North, with at least 1 or 2 exits to go.

[kevinb1994]

I don't like the North 295 to West 295 thing. Leave that off and just use the To South 95, or just 295 North Philadelphia.

Nice idea, but a directional change is something that should be pointed out on any BGS.

Just say West I-295 To South I-95.

Yeah, that's a fair compromise.

But you're not on 295 West at this point. You're on 295 North, with at least 1 or 2 exits to go.

If they had built the Somerset Freeway, this wouldn't have even been an issue in the first place.

[vdeane]

I don't see why the direction change needs to be pointed out on the BGS.  They don't point it out for any other road with such a change, why this one?

[famartin]

I don't see why the direction change needs to be pointed out on the BGS.  They don't point it out for any other road with such a change, why this one?

Only reason it needs pointing out is because, thanks to NJDOT, the direction change  happens in a completely illogical place, but I digress...