Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[JMAN_WiS&S]

Completely random sidenote, but the Wisconsin video was filmed by me, I have a nicer camera now, would any of you like me to try to obtain some better footage of the two FYA doghouse setups in Eau Claire? The 3 videos I have were filmed with my phone.

I intended to give you credit, but I could not remember or find your username. Was hoping you might spot me sharing the video. I remember you mentioning the video on a comment on one of my YouTube videos, which is how I found it.

Would definitely like to see some new video! Those older videos are definitely a little shaky. Try and find a small tripod. I have one with magnets on the legs, and I stick it sideways onto various poles.

I have a tripod that I use for my other hobby of recording outdoor warning sirens, and I recently purchased a Canon PowerShot camera, so I hope to get some nice footage when I am home from college next. I would change my username on here, however I have not figured out how to do so.

[jakeroot]

Completely random sidenote, but the Wisconsin video was filmed by me, I have a nicer camera now, would any of you like me to try to obtain some better footage of the two FYA doghouse setups in Eau Claire? The 3 videos I have were filmed with my phone.

I intended to give you credit, but I could not remember or find your username. Was hoping you might spot me sharing the video. I remember you mentioning the video on a comment on one of my YouTube videos, which is how I found it.

Would definitely like to see some new video! Those older videos are definitely a little shaky. Try and find a small tripod. I have one with magnets on the legs, and I stick it sideways onto various poles.

I have a tripod that I use for my other hobby of recording outdoor warning sirens, and I recently purchased a Canon PowerShot camera, so I hope to get some nice footage when I am home from college next. I would change my username on here, however I have not figured out how to do so.

Great to hear. Definitely looking forward to some new videos.

Contact an administrator. They can change your username. I had mine lengthen from "jake" as there was already a very well-known Jake on here, who did not use that username, but was none-the-less referred to by his first name.

[kphoger]

there was already a very well-known Jake on here, who did not use that username, but was none-the-less referred to by his first name.

Sorry if I still do refer to him as Jake.  Might get confusing.

[jakeroot]

there was already a very well-known Jake on here, who did not use that username, but was none-the-less referred to by his first name.

Sorry if I still do refer to him as Jake.  Might get confusing.

I've come to accept it. His contributions far outweigh any of mine! Never mind that he's been friends with the older bunch on here for as long as I've been alive.

[Amtrakprod]

One of the few (if only) FYA left turn signals in NYC that functions as a true protected/permissive signal.

The signal on the mast arm has a modified doghouse setup for what is probably a clearance issue

320 E 57th St

https://goo.gl/maps/D347hTc4uG32

A double left too! I don't believe FYAs are allowed where the second left turn is an option lane, but I've seen Seattle use them for this purpose before: https://goo.gl/85DcUs

Looks like it was a protected left before?

Aren't shared left turn lanes are supposed to use Doghouses.

[jakeroot]

One of the few (if only) FYA left turn signals in NYC that functions as a true protected/permissive signal.

The signal on the mast arm has a modified doghouse setup for what is probably a clearance issue

320 E 57th St

https://goo.gl/maps/D347hTc4uG32

A double left too! I don't believe FYAs are allowed where the second left turn is an option lane, but I've seen Seattle use them for this purpose before: https://goo.gl/85DcUs

Looks like it was a protected left before?

Aren't shared left turn lanes are supposed to use Doghouses.

Basically any type of "yield on green" signal, but yes. In practice it seems to work okay. The Seattle example did replace a 4-section yield on green signal about 7 years ago.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

One of the few (if only) FYA left turn signals in NYC that functions as a true protected/permissive signal.

The signal on the mast arm has a modified doghouse setup for what is probably a clearance issue

320 E 57th St

https://goo.gl/maps/D347hTc4uG32

A double left too! I don't believe FYAs are allowed where the second left turn is an option lane, but I've seen Seattle use them for this purpose before: https://goo.gl/85DcUs

Looks like it was a protected left before?

Aren't shared left turn lanes are supposed to use Doghouses.

I think so.

But the intersection has changed again, protected only dual left turn lanes

301 E 57th St
https://goo.gl/maps/Z1mEK7Gj9Fr

[Amtrakprod]

One of the few (if only) FYA left turn signals in NYC that functions as a true protected/permissive signal.

The signal on the mast arm has a modified doghouse setup for what is probably a clearance issue

320 E 57th St

https://goo.gl/maps/D347hTc4uG32

A double left too! I don't believe FYAs are allowed where the second left turn is an option lane, but I've seen Seattle use them for this purpose before: https://goo.gl/85DcUs

Looks like it was a protected left before?

Aren't shared left turn lanes are supposed to use Doghouses.

I think so.

But the intersection has changed again, protected only dual left turn lanes

301 E 57th St
https://goo.gl/maps/Z1mEK7Gj9Fr

A Flashing Yellow Arrow face (FYA) shall not be used if any of the following conditions exist:
The left turn has a lane shared with other movements (including a single-lane approach).
The permissive left turn must cross more than one stream of traffic.
The permissive left turn follows an unusual path.
Inadequate sight distance.
It is desired to protect a pedestrian phase from permissive left turns.

Example from the MUTCD
Screen Shot 2018-11-09 at 9.17.03 PM by Petru Sofio, on Flickr

[SignBridge]

Can you advise the section number where you found those rules about not using an FYA. I'm looking in my Manual but I don't see it.

[roadfro]

A Flashing Yellow Arrow face (FYA) shall not be used if any of the following conditions exist:
The left turn has a lane shared with other movements (including a single-lane approach).
The permissive left turn must cross more than one stream of traffic.
The permissive left turn follows an unusual path.
Inadequate sight distance.
It is desired to protect a pedestrian phase from permissive left turns.

Can you advise the section number where you found those rules about not using an FYA. I'm looking in my Manual but I don't see it.

I'm fairly certain Amtrakprod's statement does not appear in the national MUTCD. Trying to search for elements of the quoted text in Chapter 4D, my browser only found three instances of "stream" in the entire page (two as part of the word "downstream" and one in the section about preemption) and two instances of "unusual" (both in reference to allowing an option for flashing red arrows at places with unusual geometry). That said, such statements might be a local jurisdiction's policy or guidance...

Edited to fix quoting

[jeffandnicole]

A Flashing Yellow Arrow face (FYA) shall not be used if any of the following conditions exist:
The left turn has a lane shared with other movements (including a single-lane approach).
The permissive left turn must cross more than one stream of traffic.
The permissive left turn follows an unusual path.
Inadequate sight distance.
It is desired to protect a pedestrian phase from permissive left turns.

Can you advise the section number where you found those rules about not using an FYA. I'm looking in my Manual but I don't see it.

I'm fairly certain Amtrakprod's statement does not appear in the national MUTCD. Trying to search for elements of the quoted text in Chapter 4D, my browser only found three instances of "stream" in the entire page (two as part of the word "downstream" and one in the section about preemption) and two instances of "unusual" (both in reference to allowing an option for flashing red arrows at places with unusual geometry). That said, such statements might be a local jurisdiction's policy or guidance...


[/quote]

I was wondering about that myself, especially the last statement. Most permissive left turns are done when pedestrians have the right of way to walk across the intersection.

[jakeroot]

I was wondering about that myself, especially the last statement. Most permissive left turns are done when pedestrians have the right of way to walk across the intersection.

With "yield on green" signals, yes. It's somewhat common in some Seattle-area suburbs for the red arrow to stay lit during the pedestrian phase, and is one of the specific advantages of the FYA.

[Amtrakprod]

I was wondering about that myself, especially the last statement. Most permissive left turns are done when pedestrians have the right of way to walk across the intersection.

With "yield on green" signals, yes. It's somewhat common in some Seattle-area suburbs for the red arrow to stay lit during the pedestrian phase, and is one of the specific advantages of the FYA.

I did find it on a yellow trap website, so it may not be reliable and the last one is a quote from another sentence I did not mean to add. It's found from this website: https://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/fyacorct.htm

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

I was wondering about that myself, especially the last statement. Most permissive left turns are done when pedestrians have the right of way to walk across the intersection.

With "yield on green" signals, yes. It's somewhat common in some Seattle-area suburbs for the red arrow to stay lit during the pedestrian phase, and is one of the specific advantages of the FYA.

I did find it on a yellow trap website, so it may not be reliable and the last one is a quote from another sentence I did not mean to add. It's found from this website: https://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/fyacorct.htm

Yeah, that's just this guy's opinion, not MUTCD guidance. He has some pretty wacky ideas if you look through his website (he opposes left lane laws and thinks everyone on a highway should travel at the same speed [nope, can't forsee any issues with that] and has a weird vendetta against cyclists).

[jakeroot]

I was wondering about that myself, especially the last statement. Most permissive left turns are done when pedestrians have the right of way to walk across the intersection.

With "yield on green" signals, yes. It's somewhat common in some Seattle-area suburbs for the red arrow to stay lit during the pedestrian phase, and is one of the specific advantages of the FYA.

I did find it on a yellow trap website, so it may not be reliable and the last one is a quote from another sentence I did not mean to add. It's found from this website: https://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/fyacorct.htm

Yeah, that's just this guy's opinion, not MUTCD guidance. He has some pretty wacky ideas if you look through his website (he opposes left lane laws and thinks everyone on a highway should travel at the same speed [nope, can't forsee any issues with that] and has a weird vendetta against cyclists).

Oooh yeah, that does not look like a good website. Spouting a bunch of crap from the looks of it.

[US 89]

If FYA exists on a road with left turns in both directions, FYA faces must exist in BOTH directions.
Exception: When an FYA face is not allowed in one direction, an Exclusively-Protected left-turn face must be used instead.

Why is this a problem? There's even an example of it in Salt Lake City: https://goo.gl/maps/didWxn695X42

[jakeroot]

If FYA exists on a road with left turns in both directions, FYA faces must exist in BOTH directions.
Exception: When an FYA face is not allowed in one direction, an Exclusively-Protected left-turn face must be used instead.

Why is this a problem? There's even an example of it in Salt Lake City: https://goo.gl/maps/didWxn695X42

The guy obviously has no idea what he's talking about. I don't see why this is an issue either, although I don't see why you wouldn't install it anyways and just run it permissive-only.

[Amtrakprod]

If FYA exists on a road with left turns in both directions, FYA faces must exist in BOTH directions.
Exception: When an FYA face is not allowed in one direction, an Exclusively-Protected left-turn face must be used instead.

Why is this a problem? There's even an example of it in Salt Lake City: https://goo.gl/maps/didWxn695X42

He may have some good points, I do agree about the shared lane thing, but I definitely disagree with the FYA one direction rule and I do not like his haterd for bikes.

[JMAN_WiS&S]

I was in town today so I setup my tripod in the passenger seat and filmed this. Unfortunately I was unable to witness the protected phase from either direction and I had places to be so I couldn't wait forever. I will surely be back at some point though.

[roadfro]

^ Seems that it is not a true FYA operation and there is no protected phase. This is consistent with MUTCD policy because there is not a dedicated left turn lane to control separately. So really the FYA implementation here is rather pointless.

[plain]

That FYA in the doghouse looks bi-modal, and also there's a standard 4-section FYA signal side mounted on the left (with a red arrow during the red phase no less). I'm thinking if there was a vehicle in the left lane during the red phase then that might trigger the protected turn.

[jakeroot]

^ Seems that it is not a true FYA operation and there is no protected phase. This is consistent with MUTCD policy because there is not a dedicated left turn lane to control separately. So really the FYA implementation here is rather pointless.

The implementation shown in the video was installed to allow pro/per lead/lag phasing with option lanes. The protected phase was not activated in the video, but it does exist.

I know it seems like a rather complex setup for something that may not be necessary, but credit for creativity must be given. I'm sure plenty of agencies considered what was installed here impossible for a long time.

[Amtrakprod]

^ Seems that it is not a true FYA operation and there is no protected phase. This is consistent with MUTCD policy because there is not a dedicated left turn lane to control separately. So really the FYA implementation here is rather pointless.

The implementation shown in the video was installed to allow pro/per lead/lag phasing with option lanes. The protected phase was not activated in the video, but it does exist.

I know it seems like a rather complex setup for something that may not be necessary, but credit for creativity must be given. I'm sure plenty of agencies considered what was installed here impossible for a long time.

It does exist, it's been shown in other videos.

[Amtrakprod]

I also had an idea to add in a sign about a law that many motorists do not understand.
Screen Shot 2018-11-22 at 8.33.35 AM by Petru Sofio, on Flickr

[US 89]

I’m fairly certain waiting in the intersection is legal in almost every state. Waiting in the intersection is actually a good practice for traffic flow, since it guarantees two cars will be able to turn left on the yellow light, even in heavy oncoming traffic. In Salt Lake, you’ll probably get honked at if you don’t pull forward.