Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[SignBridge]

US41, there is nothing actually wrong with the "shared signal" configuration shown in your graphic. That arrangement is still permitted by the Manual as long as the doghouse is not directly over, or in-front-of the left-turn lane. It should be over the lane-line separating the left-turn lane and the left-thru lane.

I have to add that the rules in the Manual are confusing. It seems to also say (Sec. 4D-20.01-E) that the doghouse can be over the left-turn lane as long as all heads in the display simultaneously show the same circular indication. This effectively prohibits "Dallas Phasing".

The flashing-left-arrow replaces having the doghouse directly over the left-turn lane as shown in the animation. It also replaces the left-turn head used in "Dallas-Phasing". The reason for the flashing yellow-arrow requirement is that too many idiot drivers thought that a circular-green directly over the left-turn lane meant the same as a green left-turn arrow.

[roadfro]

I have to add that the rules in the Manual are confusing. It seems to also say (Sec. 4D-20.01-E) that the doghouse can be over the left-turn lane as long as all heads in the display simultaneously show the same circular indication. This effectively prohibits "Dallas Phasing".

That section describes a "shared" signal head, in which the circular indications in the doghouse must display the exact same as any adjacent circular indications. Support in Sec 4D.17-10-A states that such a signal head should be positioned over or slightly to the right of the left turn lane line.

[jakeroot]

The reason for the flashing yellow-arrow requirement is that too many idiot drivers thought that a circular-green directly over the left-turn lane meant the same as a green left-turn arrow.

I swear I've seen left turn lanes without an arrow but protected. It seems like a ridiculous idea, but I'm so sure I've seen it. It wouldn't follow the manual, but a lot of things in the US don't follow the manual, so it wouldn't be that surprising.

The signal, when in protected phase, looked like:

[GREEN BALL] [RED BALL] [RED BALL]

[Mr_Northside]

What exactly is the problem with this design? Flashing yellow arrows may not be confusing to us, but to the average driver a flashing yellow means go, not yield.

The average driver didn't learn it properly then... green means go, flashing yellow means proceed with caution.

Yes... flashing yellow = green + "proceed with caution".....
But "proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield".

[jakeroot]

What exactly is the problem with this design? Flashing yellow arrows may not be confusing to us, but to the average driver a flashing yellow means go, not yield.

The average driver didn't learn it properly then... green means go, flashing yellow means proceed with caution.

Yes... flashing yellow = green + "proceed with caution".....
But "proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield".

"Proceed with caution" is something every driver should do at all times, regardless of the situation at hand. The flashing amber left turn arrow means "Yield to oncoming traffic, then proceed with caution".

[US 41]

What exactly is the problem with this design? Flashing yellow arrows may not be confusing to us, but to the average driver a flashing yellow means go, not yield.

The average driver didn't learn it properly then... green means go, flashing yellow means proceed with caution.

Yes... flashing yellow = green + "proceed with caution".....
But "proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield".

"Proceed with caution" is something every driver should do at all times, regardless of the situation at hand. The flashing amber left turn arrow means "Yield to oncoming traffic, then proceed with caution".

Which is dumb. The 5 light signal head should be used. Everyone knows what that means. Left Turn Yield on Green is a lot simpler than flashing yellow arrows. I obviously am not confused by the flashing yellow arrow, but all the idiots on the road that don't pay attention (mostly women on their phones) will just go.

[SignBridge]

You might be right US41; time will tell.

The more I read about the flashing yellow-arrow concept, the more I've come to realize that it seems to have evolved as a solution to the problems of Dallas Phasing, an odd practice used in Texas.

For those not familiar with it, in Dallas Phasing the thru lanes may be displaying a red-ball, while the left-turn signal displays a circular-green or green-ball. It meant that left turns could be made while yielding to opposing traffic, even though parallel thru traffic in the same direction was stopped. But too many drivers apparently took that green-ball to mean the same as a green-arrow.

So the flashing yellow-arrow is meant to replace that green-ball in the left-turn signal. In addition the Manual now mandates that all circular lights in the same direction, show the same indication simultaneously, effectively outlawing Dallas Phasing.

At least that's my take on this. If anyone knows something different, please correct me or add to what I've said. 

[mrsman]

Yes, it is a replacement for Dallas phasing.  In my opinion, most drivers are programmed to believe that when they see a yellow light, opposing traffic also sees a yellow light and so they will complete a left turn, even though in reality the opposing traffic does not have a yellow light leading to red.  Hence, the yellow trap.

But I don't believe the flashing yellow  helps in this regard, because so many drivers are programmed to wait in the middle of the intersection to make their left turn and will turn as soon as they see adjacent traffic coming to a stop (and mistakenly concluding that opposing traffic also is coming to a stop), irrespective of what the signal may be saying.

I prefer the approach for lead/lag signals of having either a) protected only lead - protected only lag or b) protected only lead - protected/permissive lag.  Even though this may hurt left turn throughput, it is far safer and avoids the yellow trap completely.

Other safe possiblities are lead/lead and lag/lag using either doghouses (protected/permissive) or red arrows (protected only).

[Revive 755]

So the flashing yellow-arrow is meant to replace that green-ball in the left-turn signal. In addition the Manual now mandates that all circular lights in the same direction, show the same indication simultaneously, effectively outlawing Dallas Phasing.

Minor nitpick:  The 2009 MUTCD still allows right turn signals to deviate from that requirement for the red ball indication if those right turn signals are visibility restricted or have a 'right turn signal' sign (Section 4D.05, Paragraph 11)

I prefer the approach for lead/lag signals of having either a) protected only lead - protected only lag or b) protected only lead - protected/permissive lag.  Even though this may hurt left turn throughput, it is far safer and avoids the yellow trap completely.

Unfortunately for Option B, many jurisdictions object or seem to object to having one direction protected only while the opposing direction is protected-permitted.

Other safe possiblities are lead/lead and lag/lag using either doghouses (protected/permissive) or red arrows (protected only).

Permissive-protected lag-lag can still bring about the yellow trap if one direction receives the left turn arrow before the other.  Lead/lead and lag/lag still don't usually provide as good of coordination as lead/lag can.

[tradephoric]

This was taken from an OTREC Webinar about the FYA. 

Q: What degree does the FYA solve the "yellow trap"  problem. And does Washington County lead the protected interval at FYA or lead/lag to benefit coordination?

A: The FYA completely solves the yellow trap problem, because now the left turn lane has its own display.  There is still the potential of the "perceived yellow trap"  which is when the driver in the left lane sees the adjacent through go solid yellow and thinks that the FYA is also ending.  It is called perceived, because the driver should focus on their own lane's signal control. Washington County prefers to lead the protected interval at FYA so if the protected left isn't needed then it can be skipped.  In a coordinated system we will lead or lag whichever benefits the coordination. (SS)

The FYA does solve the "yellow trap" problem.  A lot of the recent comments in this thread seem to be describing a "perceived yellow trap".  Apparently, Washington County prefers to lead their protected lefts at FYA's to prevent (or at least drastically reduce) the "perceived yellow trap".  However, leading lefts present their own safety problems.  Drivers are more prone to get "stuck" in the middle of the intersection and are forced to clear at the end of the permissive phase (just as opposing through traffic may be running their red light).

From a safety standpoint, it's hard to tell which type of FYA operation is actually safer (leading vs. lagging).  Arguments can be made from both sides.

[thenetwork]

The MUTCD specifically prohibits straight-ahead red arrows, which is why those are uncommon.

How about a red U-Turn Arrow?  Is there any place that uses them regularly and are They MUTCD compliant?  I have an intersection with a "temporary" red U-Turn arrow lens as the traffic light was installed before the new roadway was built.  I need to get a photo of it.  Bing nor Google have yet to update this intersection in Grand Junction.

[Big John]

^^ A red U-turn arrow is MUTCD complaint.

[wisvishr0]

The average driver didn't learn it properly then... green means go, flashing yellow means proceed with caution.

While I'm sure you're right, as a new driver in Maryland, I was told (by a driver's ed instructor) that flashing yellow means "slow down and proceed with caution, but DO NOT STOP unless you have to -- you have the right of way." That's exactly what the instructor told us, and it's what I had in my notes. My dad concurred, saying that you need to proceed with caution because other people might turn in front of you and cut you off, but you have the right of way.

They probably teach it differently in other states, but I think the ambiguity is with the word "proceed" -- if they qualified it, (e.g. "proceed when there is no conflicting traffic") it would mean you didn't have the right of way, but otherwise, I have to agree that it doesn't make sense, unless you put a "Yield when flashing yellow" sign.

I guess that's why they banned them in Maryland. Here, we use a flashing red arrow to achieve the same thing, which I think is less ambiguous. Here, flashing red has ALWAYS meant: "stop, and give way IF anyone else doesn't have flashing red lights, or treat it like an all-way stop IF everyone else has flashing red lights." I would post a picture of an intersection with a flashing red arrow, but GSV hasn't updated the imagery there yet.

In general, I think the MUTCD better has to make a distinction between yielding, stopping and yielding, stopping and taking turns, and having the right of way. A flashing red sometimes means you yield, and sometimes means you take turns and go yourself if you got there quicker (as in a 4-way stop). A flashing yellow sometimes means you have the right of way, and sometimes means you don't. There has to be a better way to signpost these things...

ETA: I found this video of it in MD, although I'm not sure whether it allows for turns when there's no green for people going straight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ2jZ62dLlY

[jeffandnicole]

The average driver didn't learn it properly then... green means go, flashing yellow means proceed with caution.

While I'm sure you're right, as a new driver in Maryland, I was told (by a driver's ed instructor) that flashing yellow means "slow down and proceed with caution, but DO NOT STOP unless you have to -- you have the right of way." That's exactly what the instructor told us, and it's what I had in my notes. My dad concurred, saying that you need to proceed with caution because other people might turn in front of you and cut you off, but you have the right of way.

Technically, this is how a green light works as well.  You definitely have the right of way on green, but if someone or something is in the middle of the intersection, you may want to consider hitting the brakes!

[wisvishr0]

Technically, this is how a green light works as well.  You definitely have the right of way on green, but if someone or something is in the middle of the intersection, you may want to consider hitting the brakes!

You're right. So is there actually a difference between a flashing yellow orb and a green light, other than the fact that cross traffic is allowed to go straight or turn left? Why not use a flashing green light for this, and let flashing yellow mean "give way without stopping," and flashing red mean "stop and give way"? Flashing yellow arrows wouldn't be ambiguous then, and I would be more comfortable with their implementation in MD. That's a major MUTCD shift, though, so I guess it should go in the "Daydreaming" threads.

I guess that's slightly off-topic. Sorry about that...

[Big John]

^^ That would be confusing to visiting Canadian drivers, where a flashing green arrow means it is safe to turn as it is a protected phase there..

[wisvishr0]

I meant that flashing green orbs should be used instead of flashing yellow orbs, and flashing yellow orbs should mean "yield." So you wouldn't use a flashing green arrow (which would mean you had the right of way), but a flashing yellow arrow, but it would be more consistent with flashing yellow orbs.

[froggie]

Looks like Mississippi is joining the ranks of states using the Flashing Yellow Arrow, with several installations planned in Madison County.

[Billy F 1988]

Yes... flashing yellow = green + "proceed with caution".....
But "proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield".

Hey, US 41. Let me ask you something. "Proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield" is a notion I don't quite understand and I've been in Missoula all my life. I know what each full red/yellow/green color means but I am new to the FYA situation since Missoula now has an FYA phase at Dore Lane and Brooks Street. Please explain and clarify to the community this: Why do you think that "Proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield"?

[corco]

Yield means you don't have the right of way. Proceed with caution means you have the right of way, but be careful as you take advantage of that right of way. Until the FYA appeared, yellow lights always meant the latter.

[US 41]

Yes... flashing yellow = green + "proceed with caution".....
But "proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield".

Hey, US 41. Let me ask you something. "Proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield" is a notion I don't quite understand and I've been in Missoula all my life. I know what each full red/yellow/green color means but I am new to the FYA situation since Missoula now has an FYA phase at Dore Lane and Brooks Street. Please explain and clarify to the community this: Why do you think that "Proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield"?

Simple. When I approach an intersection and the light is flashing yellow, I go. A flashing yellow IMO is equivalent to a green. Either way you have to watch out for the occasional idiot that might pull out in front of you. You should proceed with caution at every intersection, but you shouldn't have to assume yield at every intersection.

[lordsutch]

Yield means you don't have the right of way. Proceed with caution means you have the right of way, but be careful as you take advantage of that right of way. Until the FYA appeared, yellow lights always meant the latter.

But the yellow hasn't changed meaning. When you're at a four-way intersection with a flashing yellow ball, if you turn left you have to yield to oncoming traffic. Of course the yellow ball doesn't inherently have the "yield" meaning; the fact you're turning across oncoming traffic is why you have to yield. And you'd have to yield even if there wasn't a flashing yellow ball; the flashing yellow ball is just to draw your attention to the fact that it's an intersection that requires more-than-ordinary caution.

Similarly the flashing yellow arrow indicates you can proceed through the intersection with caution, but since you're turning across oncoming traffic and it's not a protected turn with a solid green arrow, you have to yield (just as you'd have to yield on a left turn in any other permissive situation, e.g. solid green ball).

(Or tl;dr: flashing yellow is not an indication of any right-of-way relative to oncoming traffic, just right-of-way relative to traffic on cross-streets.)

[jakeroot]

The MUTCD specifically prohibits straight-ahead red arrows, which is why those are uncommon.

How about a red U-Turn Arrow?  Is there any place that uses them regularly and are They MUTCD compliant?  I have an intersection with a "temporary" red U-Turn arrow lens as the traffic light was installed before the new roadway was built.  I need to get a photo of it.  Bing nor Google have yet to update this intersection in Grand Junction.

There is a series of U-Turn arrows along 176 St near Puyallup, Wash:

[roadfro]

Yes... flashing yellow = green + "proceed with caution".....
But "proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield".

Hey, US 41. Let me ask you something. "Proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield" is a notion I don't quite understand and I've been in Missoula all my life. I know what each full red/yellow/green color means but I am new to the FYA situation since Missoula now has an FYA phase at Dore Lane and Brooks Street. Please explain and clarify to the community this: Why do you think that "Proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield"?

Simple. When I approach an intersection and the light is flashing yellow, I go. A flashing yellow IMO is equivalent to a green. Either way you have to watch out for the occasional idiot that might pull out in front of you. You should proceed with caution at every intersection, but you shouldn't have to assume yield at every intersection.

A flashing yellow (arrow or ball) allows you to cautiously enter the intersection to proceed (either in direction of the arrow or in any direction allowed by the circular indication), and you must yield to any pedestrians or other traffic already lawfully within the intersection. (paraphrased from MUTCD Sec 4D.03 p03-E)

Compare to the MUTCD meaning of a yield (Sec 2B.08 p02): "The YIELD sign assigns right-of-way to traffic on certain approaches to an intersection. Vehicles controlled by a YIELD sign need to slow down to a speed that is reasonable for the existing conditions or stop when necessary to avoid interfering with conflicting traffic."

I think the confusion with the meaning of a flashing yellow comes from long-established use of red/yellow flash mode (i.e. "nighttime flash") where the major street gets a flashing yellow and the side street gets a flashing red. In this operation, drivers on the main street are assigned the right of way over other traffic (which has to come to a complete stop due to flashing red) but tend to treat the signal as a green light since there's usually little conflicting traffic to prompt the need for a complete stop. In those cases, a car on the main street facing the flashing yellow would still have to slow down and yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk or a side street vehicle that was already in the intersection. (If you think about it, if the red/yellow flash were replaced with stop and yield signs, traffic would operate the same way.)

The average driver didn't learn it properly then... green means go, flashing yellow means proceed with caution.

While I'm sure you're right, as a new driver in Maryland, I was told (by a driver's ed instructor) that flashing yellow means "slow down and proceed with caution, but DO NOT STOP unless you have to -- you have the right of way." That's exactly what the instructor told us, and it's what I had in my notes. My dad concurred, saying that you need to proceed with caution because other people might turn in front of you and cut you off, but you have the right of way.
(...snip...)
I guess that's why they banned them in Maryland. Here, we use a flashing red arrow to achieve the same thing, which I think is less ambiguous. Here, flashing red has ALWAYS meant: "stop, and give way IF anyone else doesn't have flashing red lights, or treat it like an all-way stop IF everyone else has flashing red lights." I would post a picture of an intersection with a flashing red arrow, but GSV hasn't updated the imagery there yet.

In general, I think the MUTCD better has to make a distinction between yielding, stopping and yielding, stopping and taking turns, and having the right of way. A flashing red sometimes means you yield, and sometimes means you take turns and go yourself if you got there quicker (as in a 4-way stop). A flashing yellow sometimes means you have the right of way, and sometimes means you don't. There has to be a better way to signpost these things...

The Maryland Driver's Manual (http://www.mva.maryland.gov/_resources/docs/DL-002.pdf) on page 13 simply states for a flashing yellow "You must slow down and proceed with caution." No mention of automatic right of way. That same manual for flashing red says to come to a complete stop, then yield the right of way to all other traffic and pedestrians (pretty much the same thing it describes for stop signs).

The MUTCD did not use a flashing red arrow (instead of flashing yellow arrow) for the permissive left turns because the red arrow requires each and every vehicle to come to a complete stop prior to making the turn. A yellow arrow allows the yield condition--permitting multiple vehicles to turn at once if the way is clear, but also compelling a stop if the way is not clear.

A flashing red is a stop sign. A flashing yellow is a "cautiously proceed" (basically a yield). The MUTCD is pretty clear about the meanings.

[roadfro]

Yes, it is a replacement for Dallas phasing.  In my opinion, most drivers are programmed to believe that when they see a yellow light, opposing traffic also sees a yellow light and so they will complete a left turn, even though in reality the opposing traffic does not have a yellow light leading to red.  Hence, the yellow trap.

But I don't believe the flashing yellow  helps in this regard, because so many drivers are programmed to wait in the middle of the intersection to make their left turn and will turn as soon as they see adjacent traffic coming to a stop (and mistakenly concluding that opposing traffic also is coming to a stop), irrespective of what the signal may be saying.

I prefer the approach for lead/lag signals of having either a) protected only lead - protected only lag or b) protected only lead - protected/permissive lag.  Even though this may hurt left turn throughput, it is far safer and avoids the yellow trap completely.

Other safe possiblities are lead/lead and lag/lag using either doghouses (protected/permissive) or red arrows (protected only).

If a driver is making a permissive left turn and has pulled into the intersection, they should not be bothered by what the adjacent traffic is doing or what that signal is displaying. They should be concentrating on the opposing traffic and the left lane signal that governs his/her own movement. That's what eliminates the yellow trap.

The lead/lag protected phasing with permitted lefts during the non-permitted phases tends to allow the most throughput when you have a coordinated arterial where dual-direction progression is desired. This was pretty much the impetus for developing Dallas Phasing to begin with. Lead/lead and lag/lag does not typically lend itself to good dual-direction progression unless the intersection is at an end of the coordinated corridor.