The Clearview thread

[Dirt Roads]

The follow-on posts after your comment did catch me off-guard.  After researching the differences between Clearview 5-W and Clearview 5-W-R, I am quite surprised that there was any notion that either of those fonts are comparable in width to FWHA Series E.  I do think that there is an overabundance of use of Clearview 5-W-R when 5-W should have been applied.  Just looking at the two biggest users of Clearview here in the Southeast, I've noticed that both Virginia and Georgia have replaced older signs with narrow ones — not just the border width is narrowed but also the text.   The first time I saw the "new"  Clearview signs on I-95 for (then) Exit 9 and Exit 10 (now exits 42 and 49) for Darien, I was shocked at how narrow that name appears on the sign compared to the old signs.

This is the first time I've ever read a post about Clearview being in GA! When did they first use it down there? Unless you're confusing it with SC, which also has lots of Clearview freeway signs itself, because throughout the past few decades I've seen Series D on the majority of GA's signs (although they've reverted back to E(M) in certain places, most of all Atlanta and its suburbs).

Folks often confused Georgia D with Clearview.

My bad.  Looks like my reference to a previous post in this thread already addresses this.  Neither of these look like FHWA Series D, probably because of the schmushed kerning.  GDOT started changing over to these along I-95 right about the rollout of Clearview.  Many of these "new" signs on I-95 were replaced or relocated during the widening projects back in the early-to-late 2000s.

I don't have any pictures I've taken, but here's an unfortunately-grainy image from Google Street View from NB I-95 at I-16. It doesn't look quite like Series C or Series D to me.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=32.069884,-81.248059&spn=0.027929,0.066047&z=15&layer=c&cbll=32.069966,-81.248019&panoid=tgudlPnXjr5vaW6mru4TAw&cbp=12,42.22,,0,-24.44

Here's a picture of that same sign bridge from the AARoads' Gallery...


Here's my recreation of the signs in the photo above using the Roadgeek Series D fonts...

I'd say I got it pretty close although I did have to tinker with the inter-character spacing a little bit.

the Georgia signs definitely use a thinner stroke ... and also, some glyphs are narrower.  the "n" is especially narrow on the photo compared to the mockup.

I do not know whether this means Georgia deviates from FHWA standard, or if Roadgeek does.

[machias]

I know this deviates from the topic at hand a little, but here's a comparison of three different "Series D" lettering styles:

- FHWA Series D (TrueType Font)
- "Georgia D", derived from Page Studio Graphics HGDxymbols Mac font from 1998
- Roadgeek Series D

It might help a little bit at differentiating between the various Series D and Clearview's equivalent. All of the letters on my example are 48 point font, using Sketch on a Mac.  I say "almost" with the Georgia D because the letter spacing is slightly off and GDOT often used a squared off "D" instead of the typical "D" seen here. Back in the late 1970s, Syracuse NY used the exact same lettering, albeit with dotted Is and Js, for their street name blades. I don't know if this was an unofficial official mixed cased Series D that wasn't really sanctioned back then or not. The "Georgia D"/Page Studio Graphics version still shows up on road signs all over the place. I don't know which version of Series D is suppose to be the official. I always thought the FHWA version was for plans and illustrations and the dotted/not squared "D" version of "Georgia D" was suppose to be the actual lettering used on signs.

[Scott5114]

What you have as FHWA Series D is the vanilla version of the lowercase characters found in the Standard Highway Signs book; this is the official set of lowercase characters specified by the federal government. The other set of lowercase characters, which you used for Georgia D, is the unofficial "chocolate" set, which probably predates Page Studio Graphics by a few decades (I remember seeing those glyphs in the early 90s, for instance). More info

[Henry]

I wonder exactly how many states have gone back to using the FHWA fonts after the original IA was rescinded? As I see it, Clearview continues to be used in many different places today.

[Pink Jazz]

I wonder exactly how many states have gone back to using the FHWA fonts after the original IA was rescinded? As I see it, Clearview continues to be used in many different places today.

ADOT has chosen not to use Clearview, but is using Enhanced E Modified for freeway signs, Series D for regular roads, and Series C for street blades.

[machias]

I wonder exactly how many states have gone back to using the FHWA fonts after the original IA was rescinded? As I see it, Clearview continues to be used in many different places today.

ADOT has chosen not to use Clearview, but is using Enhanced E Modified for freeway signs, Series D for regular roads, and Series C for street blades.

IDOT and ISHTA have been sticking to Series E(m) or Series EE(m) on all of their signing projects in the Chicago area. The Clearview signs are starting to look outdated.

[tylert120]

I wonder exactly how many states have gone back to using the FHWA fonts after the original IA was rescinded? As I see it, Clearview continues to be used in many different places today.

PA switched back to Clearview right after it was reinstated.

[ethanhopkin14]

I wonder exactly how many states have gone back to using the FHWA fonts after the original IA was rescinded? As I see it, Clearview continues to be used in many different places today.

PA switched back to Clearview right after it was reinstated.

Of course.  Pennsylvania and Texas both would since it's their little pet.

[stevashe]

I wonder exactly how many states have gone back to using the FHWA fonts after the original IA was rescinded? As I see it, Clearview continues to be used in many different places today.

PA switched back to Clearview right after it was reinstated.

Of course.  Pennsylvania and Texas both would since it's their little pet.

Anyone know if any other states are using it these days? I seem to remember there was mention that Kentucky was planning on it previously in this thread.

[OracleUsr]

I don't think South Carolina will drop it any time soon.

[J N Winkler]

Anyone know if any other states are using it these days? I seem to remember there was mention that Kentucky was planning on it previously in this thread.

We had an earlier discussion as to whether Michigan DOT was going back to the FHWA Series.  I thought they might be, based on the typefaces shown in one plans set, but a local observer expressed doubt that was the case, and indeed nearly every signing sheet I have extracted (up to March 2020) has shown legend in Clearview.

I have varied in how closely I have kept track of the various state DOTs involved, but I think it is pretty definite that North Dakota, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Ohio, Delaware, and Maryland--Clearview users all--have returned to the FHWA Series.  Vermont is still using Clearview for destination legend on freeways; generic words on freeway signs appear in FHWA Series, as does all legend on conventional-road guide signs.  For Virginia, Wyoming, and West Virginia, all of which also used Clearview at one point or another, I don't have enough signing sheets in hand to come to a clear conclusion.

I don't think South Carolina will drop it any time soon.

I am not so sure about that.  In May 2020 or thereabouts, SCDOT opened bids on a sign replacement covering I-77 in Lexington and Richland Counties.  Series E Modified is used throughout.

[OracleUsr]

Anyone know if any other states are using it these days? I seem to remember there was mention that Kentucky was planning on it previously in this thread.

We had an earlier discussion as to whether Michigan DOT was going back to the FHWA Series.  I thought they might be, based on the typefaces shown in one plans set, but a local observer expressed doubt that was the case, and indeed nearly every signing sheet I have extracted (up to March 2020) has shown legend in Clearview.

I have varied in how closely I have kept track of the various state DOTs involved, but I think it is pretty definite that North Dakota, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Ohio, Delaware, and Maryland--Clearview users all--have returned to the FHWA Series.  Vermont is still using Clearview for destination legend on freeways; generic words on freeway signs appear in FHWA Series, as does all legend on conventional-road guide signs.  For Virginia, Wyoming, and West Virginia, all of which also used Clearview at one point or another, I don't have enough signing sheets in hand to come to a clear conclusion.

I don't think South Carolina will drop it any time soon.

I am not so sure about that.  In May 2020 or thereabouts, SCDOT opened bids on a sign replacement covering I-77 in Lexington and Richland Counties.  Series E Modified is used throughout.

That would be a welcome change. 

[vtk]

I can confirm, OhioDOT hasn't (to my knowlege) put up new Clearview signage in a few years.

[SkyPesos]

I can confirm, OhioDOT hasn't (to my knowlege) put up new Clearview signage in a few years.

Can confirm that too
Over the past few months, I've seen fresh installs for all BGS between Red Bank (exit 9) and Reagan (exit 14) on I-71, can't remember if Ridge/562 got replaced SB too, but NB is still using the button copy. They're all in the FHWA font, opposed to the Clearview I've seen on sign installations 5 years ago.

[ethanhopkin14]

A side game:

If you live in a state that is religiously Clearveiw, what is the most recent FHWA installation you can think of? 

I live in Texas who is madly in love with Clearveiw, but there are still signs at the I-35-US-290/SH-71 interchange that are in FHWA and that intersection was completed (and new sign installation with it) in 2006.  In the Austin area at least, that's the newest signs I can think of that have FHWA font on them. Me thinks it's because they were ordered before the Clearveiw stuff happened and were sitting in the warehouse that long. 

[PurdueBill]

I can confirm, OhioDOT hasn't (to my knowlege) put up new Clearview signage in a few years.

Can confirm that too
Over the past few months, I've seen fresh installs for all BGS between Red Bank (exit 9) and Reagan (exit 14) on I-71, can't remember if Ridge/562 got replaced SB too, but NB is still using the button copy. They're all in the FHWA font, opposed to the Clearview I've seen on sign installations 5 years ago.

ODOT did put up "new" Clearview signs in Akron in the last year at the Main/Broadway project on I-76/77, including negative contrast full panels in Clearview for things like LANE ENDS 1/2 MILE (ugh) and Clearview in EXIT ONLY fields, but they were designed before the changeover.  Projects like I-76 in Norton/Barberton ended up all FHWA, thank goodness.

[I-35]

A side game:

If you live in a state that is religiously Clearveiw, what is the most recent FHWA installation you can think of? 

I live in Texas who is madly in love with Clearveiw, but there are still signs at the I-35-US-290/SH-71 interchange that are in FHWA and that intersection was completed (and new sign installation with it) in 2006.  In the Austin area at least, that's the newest signs I can think of that have FHWA font on them. Me thinks it's because they were ordered before the Clearveiw stuff happened and were sitting in the warehouse that long.

NTTA's signage on Dallas North Tollway is fairly recent (<10 years) and some is in FHWA E Mod, esp. south of Belt Line.  They have been slowly replacing across the network with Clearview, though.

[wanderer2575]

A side game:

If you live in a state that is religiously Clearveiw, what is the most recent FHWA installation you can think of? 

I live in Texas who is madly in love with Clearveiw, but there are still signs at the I-35-US-290/SH-71 interchange that are in FHWA and that intersection was completed (and new sign installation with it) in 2006.  In the Austin area at least, that's the newest signs I can think of that have FHWA font on them. Me thinks it's because they were ordered before the Clearveiw stuff happened and were sitting in the warehouse that long.

in Michigan, FHWA signs went up a few years ago as part of the reconstruction of I-75 near Pontiac.  There also were several individual FHWA replacement signs in various locations in the past two or three years.   I suspect Michigan very briefly switched back to FHWA and then back again to Clearview the instant it was reinstated, as J N Winkler noted above.

[hbelkins]

In Kentucky, and I suspect West Virginia as well, new signage seems to be dependent on when the plans were drawn up relative to FHWA's changes on Clearview policy. Signs that were designed to be Clearview prior to rescission of the interim approval stayed Clearview. But now that Clearview is back in favor, there are still some Standard Alphabet signs going up that were designed while Clearview was verboten.

West Virginia installed new Clearview replacement signs along I-79 between Charleston and Clay. Last time I was up that way, which was after Clearview had been reinstated, new replacement signs had been erected between Clay and Flatwoods. They were in the FHWA font. They must have been designed while Clearview was disallowed.

[SkyPesos]

I can confirm, OhioDOT hasn't (to my knowlege) put up new Clearview signage in a few years.

Can confirm that too
Over the past few months, I've seen fresh installs for all BGS between Red Bank (exit 9) and Reagan (exit 14) on I-71, can't remember if Ridge/562 got replaced SB too, but NB is still using the button copy. They're all in the FHWA font, opposed to the Clearview I've seen on sign installations 5 years ago.

ODOT did put up "new" Clearview signs in Akron in the last year at the Main/Broadway project on I-76/77, including negative contrast full panels in Clearview for things like LANE ENDS 1/2 MILE (ugh) and Clearview in EXIT ONLY fields, but they were designed before the changeover.  Projects like I-76 in Norton/Barberton ended up all FHWA, thank goodness.

I think ODOT a few years ago was trying to get rid of its clearview stock, so they were (at least in my area) replacing signs that didn't seem to need a replacement this early with clearview ones. Thankfully, that is over.

But with the new sign installs in Ohio, I like seeing the larger exit tabs along with the return of FHWA font. Looks similar to and as clean as Minnesota's and Missouri's to me (think both MN and MO were heavy dancing arrow users like OH in the past too, at least in Kansas City for MO). Now all Ohio needs is to use APL signs a bit more, don't think I've seen any in the state outside of Toledo.

Also does anyone have photos of the new I-270, I-670 and Easton/Morse/161 signs since a new NB 270 C/D lane was added last year? The old signs were some of my least favorite in the state, interested to see how Ohio did the new ones.

[Pink Jazz]

Here in Queen Creek, they have seemed to go back and forth on the policy.  Some new Clearview street blades went up in late 2018 and early 2019 alongside some FHWA signs, but all new 2020 installs seem to be FHWA.

[machias]

I wonder exactly how many states have gone back to using the FHWA fonts after the original IA was rescinded? As I see it, Clearview continues to be used in many different places today.

ADOT has chosen not to use Clearview, but is using Enhanced E Modified for freeway signs, Series D for regular roads, and Series C for street blades.

I noticed the new EE(m) signs along I-10 during my recent trip to Tucson (our relocation is at the end of March) and it looks really good. Honestly, when it comes to Clearview, Arizona and Texas are the only two states (in my experience, and I've been in all 50 states) that seem to do Clearview well. I have no issue with the way either state uses Clearview. Michigan and Illinois (outside of Chicago) also do quite well with Clearview.

But the EE(m) signs in Arizona look fantastic. Are other states adopting Enhanced E Modified?

[seicer]

Examples of EE(m) signs?

[bing101]

Here is a Cool video on the 2 fonts.

[machias]

Examples of EE(m) signs?

I took a photo of this one on Wednesday. I snapped the photo quickly when I realized it was EE(m).