Welcome to Gridlock Louisville and environs. Other than the Kennedy this is the worst thing for the Louisville area. I-65 and I-265 will be backed up for miles.
http://www.whas.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=283307%3Ffeed%3D283307&article=9090398
Post Merge: December 31, 1969, 06:59:59 PM
Duh the shortcut is I-265 to I-65 to I-64 if eastbound and switched for westbound. Oh my, my major problems and to think some folks are still fighting for no new bridges.
Post Merge: December 31, 1969, 06:59:59 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110909/NEWS01/309090090/Sherman-Minton-Bridge-closed-indefinitely-due-to-crack?odyssey=mod|breaking|text|Home
Hm....maybe they can start work on the East End Bridge this weekend. Louisville just better hope that this doens't become like the SR 912 Bridge situation in Northwest Indiana. That one has yet to open and its been close for about a year.
Heard it's a crack on a load bearing part of the bridge. Ouch, ouch and more ouch..........I'm not a Enigneer and didn't stay at a Hotel but this could be months.
my brother works near Louisville and head back to St. Louis on weekends - and avoids Louisville at all costs by taking that bridge in Brandenburg to cross the Ohio on his way to Elizabethtown.
IN-135 is actually pretty quiet south of Corydon.
I live just off the part of I-65 that is getting all this extra traffic. Went to the riverfront (IN side) for lunch today and noticed a long backup on I-65 southbound at midday on Saturday, so I can't imagine what a rush hour is going to be like.
If you have to cross at Louisville and it's too far out of the way to reroute to another crossing, I'd highly recommend timing your trip to avoid rush hour.
I'm thinking TRIMARC should post Riverfields Phone Number with the travel times on the message boards Monday.
Thought this today with all traffic blocked at I-265. What a time to finish a bit of paving with no traffic in the way.
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 10, 2011, 01:36:05 PM
If you have to cross at Louisville and it's too far out of the way to reroute to another crossing, I'd highly recommend timing your trip to avoid rush hour.
How bad do you think Tuesday at 3PM will be. I'll be heading through at that time.
Won't know till Monday or Tuesday. Will have to get a guage on people's commuting patterns. If you don't know much about Louisville there will be one basic overwhelming problem. Only one major river crossing (Kennedy) right now. The Kennedy is already at or past capacity and now add 80K to it and you see the problem. The Clark Memorial is there but only four lanes and will be converted to 3 in and 1 out. It will back up quickly also. On first glance I would say if your going east 3pm isn't horrible but coming west it will be ugly as people will start leaving early from work (I'm thinking rush hour will be much more spread out with different companies staggering work times).
I'm actually heading through north to south on 65. Been through Louisville many times, I've always enjoyed the drive.
UPDATE:
http://www.wdrb.com/story/15433563/jeffersonville-announced-detour-plans-from-bridge-closure
is reporting the bridge will be out for at least 6 months. Back ups with stop and go, bumper to bumper, traffic of over 9 miles are expected to happen during the work week.
If you are planning on traveling on either of these interstate highways you may wish to rethink you route. Long delays should be expected if you choose to take these interstate highways.
IF traveling E-W consider rerouting to I-70 through Indianapolis, IN, or to I-24 or I-40 through Nashville, TN. If traveling N-S consider I-57 through Illinios or I-75 through Cincinnati, OH.
spread the word to truckers or travelers that pass through Louisville but don't have to stop there.
^ Traffic is that bad on the two bypass routes of Louisville that using I-65 to the parkways is not a good option?
The I-64 closure should really back up the case to constuct one or two of the proposed new bridges in the Louisville area.
Quote from: InterstateNG on September 11, 2011, 01:10:34 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 10, 2011, 01:36:05 PM
If you have to cross at Louisville and it's too far out of the way to reroute to another crossing, I'd highly recommend timing your trip to avoid rush hour.
How bad do you think Tuesday at 3PM will be. I'll be heading through at that time.
As of 6am this morning, it was taking an hour to travel the 6-7 miles from I-265 to the end of the bridge. It won't be that bad at 3pm, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took you 30+ minutes.
Unless your destination is right on or very close to I-65, using I-57 or I-75 is probably going to be quicker.
I am heading to West Memphis, essentially, and the plan was from Indy to go 65->Western Kentucky Parkway->24->Purchase Parkway->51->155->55.
How is US-41 from Terre Haute to Evansville? That would add only 6 miles to my route. I ask because I've heard that the cops downstate on 57 in Illinois are pretty bad, or is that not true?
Quote from: InterstateNG on September 12, 2011, 10:23:12 AM
I am heading to West Memphis, essentially, and the plan was from Indy to go 65->Western Kentucky Parkway->24->Purchase Parkway->51->155->55.
How is US-41 from Terre Haute to Evansville? That would add only 6 miles to my route. I ask because I've heard that the cops downstate on 57 in Illinois are pretty bad, or is that not true?
I've not travelled either stretch in a while, but 57 is an interstate, so even if the cops force you to stick to the speed limit I'd think it would be quicker.
If you are going between Nashville and Chicago, 41 would be the shortest route if you aren't using 65. The route is all four-laned and well designed. The only delays you will likely encounter are some stop lights at Henderson, KY, and some stop lights at Terre Haute, and some other isolated locations in western Indiana, possibly Sullivan, IN, etc.
Depending on the time of day, the US 41 strip in Henderson, KY can clog up pretty badly.
What I would suggest? Coming south on I-65, take I-265 west to I-64 west and get off at Corydon, then take IN 135 south. It becomes KY 79. From there, you can either follow KY 79 and hit the WK Parkway at Caneyville, or if you prefer a more modern route, work your way over to US 31W from Brandenburg and then hit the WK.
For east-west I-64 traffic, a good detour would be a variation of that route. I-265 or I-264 around to US 31W, then head south and follow one of the Kentucky state routes or US 60 and some combination of routes to KY 79 and cross the river, then follow IN 135 north to Corydon.
Hopefully this as painful as it is. It will get the Bridges Project rolling. The dirty little secret is that the Kennedy itself is in bad shape and in need of a new deck.
The ramp from westbound I-64 to I-65 is closed at Spaghetti Junction. The KYTC-recommended detour for westbound I-64 through traffic is I-265 north to I-71 south to I-65, but I would recommend I-264 to I-71 instead.
If it's true and the Sherman must go this is going to cost the whole area.
Good Pics.................
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=B2&Dato=20110910&Kategori=EXTRAS18&Lopenr=309100064&Ref=PH
Since my ultimate destination is to the west (Austin, writing this in Marion, AR) I decided to just avoid Louisville entirely and go over to 57. Certainly not the most interesting drive, but when you have drives of 730 and 650 miles on back to back days with a housecat in the car, it isn't wise to sit in traffic. Thanks for all the advice.
I noted that VMS signs in Indy, Mt. Vernon, IL and at the I-55/155 interchange all had messages telling drivers about I-64 being closed.
MoDOT posted messages on Highway 40 in St. Louis with the such message as well. However, the local media is not talking about it.
INDOT making a very dangerous curve. I-265 west ramp to I-64 east in Floyd County has been widened to 2 lanes. INDOT did it on the cheap and didn't add any lane width but took all the shoulder. It's a blind curve with river bluff's in the way. If you have a flat or any break down and have to break down in the travel lane it's very, very dangerous. Imagine a Tractor Trailer coming around the turn at 55mph or more. INDOT I know it's a pain but don't risk people lives for the sake of convience and cheapness.
See the last pic to give you ideal of the curve and the disaster waiting.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=B2&Dato=20110913&Kategori=EXTRAS18&Lopenr=309130115&Ref=PH
In that series of 13 pictures, the first nine are labelled as the 265/64 intersection, while the last four are labelled as the 265/65 intersection, yet I'm about 99.9% certain that all 13 pictures are from the 265/64 intersection.
Yes they are...........I'm scared of that curve already. Big Trucks won't be able to stop due to lack of visability going around the corner.
i swear they just did an emergency restriping that MoDOT loves to do to alternate routes prior to some major road construction project
Quote from: kharvey10 on September 14, 2011, 11:26:51 PM
i swear they just did an emergency restriping that MoDOT loves to do to alternate routes prior to some major road construction project
Like what they did to I-44 (and I guess I-70 as well) when I-64 was closed in STL a couple of years ago.
And they also did this to I-640 and some of its interchanges with I-40 in Knoxville when I-40 was closed through downtown for the SmartFix 40 project.
*BUT* TDOT had the good sense to use new pavement in those areas where the restriping occurred, making the transition more seamless.
Something else TDOT also did during that project was drape temporary BGS "tarps" over the existing overhead BGS's that officially detoured I-40 onto I-640 and declared I-40 to be for local traffic only. I wonder if INDOT and KTC would consider similar temporary signage changing measures. Might cut down on what I'm assuming is a shortage of portable VMS's in the area, and also relieve the TRIMARC overhead message boards so they might be able to display traffic conditions for other parts of Louisville-area freeways.
Quote from: ShawnP on September 14, 2011, 03:31:59 PM
See the last pic to give you ideal of the curve and the disaster waiting.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=B2&Dato=20110913&Kategori=EXTRAS18&Lopenr=309130115&Ref=PH
They must be writing those cutlines in California. "The I-265" and "the I-64?"
Just saw in Indy today on 465 a VMS that was directing "Lexington/Atlanta" traffic to go thorugh Cincinnati on 74 and 75. Probably the only time I'm ever going to see "Atlanta" on a highway sign in Indianapolis.
Having grown up and lived much of my life in Northern Indiana/Chicago/Michigan, and having made several trips to Georgia/Florida, I had it pounded into my head from a very young age that the Indianapolis-Chattanooga segment of the trip is 40 miles shorter via I-65/24 than via I-74/75. I'm sure that the same applies to many people from the Upper Midwest, so yeah, having signs posted in Indy to warn people is probably a productive thing.
Quote from: InterstateNG on September 12, 2011, 10:23:12 AM
I ask because I've heard that the cops downstate on 57 in Illinois are pretty bad, or is that not true?
My uncle is a Greyhound bus driver and he once told me to slow down while going through Union County, IL. If you get a ticket there, they won't allow you to mail in your fine. You have to physically go back there and pay it on your court date. Supposedly, the thinking behind this is the county gets revenue when people stay at hotels or spend money at other local establishments.
I know this is getting away from the OP, so carry on...
Today's featured article on Wikipedia is rather fitting, I would say.
I got a photo of a VMS in Mt. Vernon on 57 that warned of the bridge being closed - they put it right next to the IL 15/Broadway exit in the southbound lanes - as that exit has several truck stops (3 of them) and several hotels.
Even the main page for Travel Midwest (Chicagoland, Madison, Milwaukee, and other nearby areas) http://www.travelmidwest.com/ has information about the bridge being closed.
It's costing millions per day in economic activity. Louisville as a metro area is now paying for decades of talk and inaction. I feel sorry for those plants that work on just in time inventory. Those plants are going to have major problems if their suppliers are from the west and north of Louisville.
seems like Rep. Yarmuth is acting like he got an about face to the whole situation, he opposed the Ohio River Bridges Project somewhat openly prior to this closure. It seems like he is the only politician that has woke up and faced the music so far. Rand Paul and McConnell been very silent about it, and T. Young is acting like he's holding his opinion for the time being.
KYTC has a website up with detour information and other info:
http://transportation.ky.gov/sherman-minton-bridge/
Quote from: hbelkins on September 16, 2011, 09:22:15 PM
KYTC has a website up with detour information and other info:
http://transportation.ky.gov/sherman-minton-bridge/
Way for KYTC to make their own maps! :ded:
I'm amazed that nobody has updated OSM yet. I've rectified that. ;)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/9320834
Kentucky doing better than INDOT. INDOT still seems in shock from a 50 year old bridge with bad steel having cracks. INDOT should still rebuild those shoulders on the ramps as they are dangerous and having a extra lane will help even if the Sherman Minton gets fixed soon.
Given with INDOT on the hook for that bridge, just wait for that shock wears off and they face reality. The only thing Kentucky has to do is send the funds.
Any engineers or Holiday Inn folks have any ideals?
http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Sherman-Minton-Bridge-welds-vertical-cracks-concern-engineers-130146593.html
Worst case scenario- the bridge cannot be repaired due to the number of cracks, where they are located, and the welded construction method. How to replace it? To save money, the piers certainly could be reused, just as is being done upstream at Madison IN. Widen them, to accommodate a wider roadway, and you still save money over the total cost of a whole new bridge from bedrock up. But if it can be repaired, how can one be certain of the safety of the span then? You still have the same issues- aging steel, welded construction which precludes bolting in a replacement part. Either way, I think the oddsmakers will say the East End project will be open before the Sherman Minton will be...
^ I'd expect the opposite, with the opposition to the East End bridge. From my understanding, the double tied arch section is the part that forced closure of the whole bridge; the approach spans are still usable (correction me if I'm wrong). One of the states could always demolish the current tied arches and float in a couple of new ones in about a year, which would be a lot faster than excavating for new piers and building all of the approach spans and roadways for the East End bridge.
It could be quicker but at this point do you think quicker or 30 years down the road. A total rebuild with C&D lanes for New Albany and Watterson exits could do wonder for future traffic flow. This is the once in a lifetime oppurtunity to do it right with C&D lanes and elimination of left hand entrance and exit ramps.
INDOT website up yesterday........
http://www.in.gov/indot/projects/2347.htm
If you try to drastically widen the footprint of I-64 in the Ohio River area, the project would be tied up for years in NEPA/Environmental Hell. If it is a bridge replacment, keep it as similar to the exisitng size as possible just to get it built ASAP.
This is a bold faced lie if you ask me. That steel will only age and get more and more brittle with time. INDOT will only be chasing cracks from now on with this bridge. Now is the time to replace it as Construction rates will never be lower than now. INDOT you are being penny wise to be pound foolish.
http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=38645&information_id=77457&type=&syndicate=syndicate
Quote from: ShawnP on September 23, 2011, 12:57:26 PM
This is a bold faced lie if you ask me. That steel will only age and get more and more brittle with time. INDOT will only be chasing cracks from now on with this bridge. Now is the time to replace it as Construction rates will never be lower than now. INDOT you are being penny wise to be pound foolish.
http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=38645&information_id=77457&type=&syndicate=syndicate
I don't get your point. The bridge will have to be replaced, but in the normal course. If nothing else, get the I-265 bridge built before this bridge is replaced. That and there certainly is not money allocated to do both projects no matter what the construction costs are today. If they decided to replace it now, it would be at least a couple of years of traffic mess that affects the economy of that entire region.
This really calls into the question of the professional standards and qualifications of INDOT as a public agency. 50 years and they never spotted the crack. Either it was a) pure laziness by choosing not to cut viewing spots for visual inspections or b) they didn't know to inspect at said spots. Either way they put millions of people at risk for decades. In the Navy as I was for 20 years we call this "Gun Decking" ie falsification of reports. Gundecking like this in the Navy would get you reduced in rank and kicked out. Some people INDOT have some big time splaing to do.
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110923/EXTRAS18/309230071/Bridge-crack-repaired-inspections-continue?odyssey=mod|mostview
Quote from: ShawnP on September 23, 2011, 11:15:59 PM
This really calls into the question of the professional standards and qualifications of INDOT as a public agency. 50 years and they never spotted the crack. Either it was a) pure laziness by choosing not to cut viewing spots for visual inspections or b) they didn't know to inspect at said spots. Either way they put millions of people at risk for decades. In the Navy as I was for 20 years we call this "Gun Decking" ie falsification of reports. Gundecking like this in the Navy would get you reduced in rank and kicked out. Some people INDOT have some big time splaing to do.
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110923/EXTRAS18/309230071/Bridge-crack-repaired-inspections-continue?odyssey=mod|mostview
Ditto with the Cline Avenue (IN-912) Bridge up this way. Built in the 1980s and now closed due to cracks? WTF!?!
Once is occurance and Twice is a trend. So it's now established without a doubt that INDOT isn't inspecting it's bridges properly. I think they need to outsource it and fire some inspectors.
Oh this gets even better, the MLK Jr. St. Bridge over the Borman in Northwest Indiana has to be rebuilt, and that was constructed in 2004.
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/gary/article_3ff52228-5d51-5999-8b30-59d5ce505429.html
I guess construction isn't completely over on the Borman afterall.
Quote from: tdindy88 on September 24, 2011, 12:36:15 PM
Oh this gets even better, the MLK Jr. St. Bridge over the Borman in Northwest Indiana has to be rebuilt, and that was constructed in 2004.
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/gary/article_3ff52228-5d51-5999-8b30-59d5ce505429.html
I guess construction isn't completely over on the Borman afterall.
It's the Borman. It's
never over. :ded: :banghead: X-(
The Sherman Minton was outsourced. It was a consultant inspecting that bridge for INDOT that found the cracks. They were found in the midst of maintenance work on that bridge. From my understanding, there had been more than one firm working on that bridge.
Keep in mind that the bridge never collapsed. The inspectors, whoever they were, did find cracks and had the bridge closed before anybody was hurt. Somebody did their job and found a problem in time. I don't know who to blame, if anybody. Time will tell on that issue, as we find out more information.
But I am going to give INDOT some credit for finding the problem before the bridge fell down, whether it should had been found sooner or not.
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on September 24, 2011, 09:28:42 PM
The Sherman Minton was outsourced. It was a consultant inspecting that bridge for INDOT that found the cracks. They were found in the midst of maintenance work on that bridge. From my understanding, there had been more than one firm working on that bridge.
Keep in mind that the bridge never collapsed. The inspectors, whoever they were, did find cracks and had the bridge closed before anybody was hurt. Somebody did their job and found a problem in time. I don't know who to blame, if anybody. Time will tell on that issue, as we find out more information.
But I am going to give INDOT some credit for finding the problem before the bridge fell down, whether it should had been found sooner or not.
That is correct. In the interviews, INDOT said the Sherman Minton inspections were always outsourced because the bridge is so complex. There are only two such bridges in the US - the other is in California.
FWIW, the NY engineering firm said the system worked exactly like it was supposed to.
Quote from: ShawnP on September 24, 2011, 10:10:53 AM
Once is occurance and Twice is a trend. So it's now established without a doubt that INDOT isn't inspecting it's bridges properly. I think they need to outsource it and fire some inspectors.
So they inspect bridges, find problems that could cost lives before catastrophe occurs, and that is bad? I would say inspectors are doing their job - and some INDOT inspections are contracted out from what was said on the news. From what I remember, Wisconsin has had at least two issues with Mississippi River bridges that required closures.
Quote from: tdindy88 on September 24, 2011, 12:36:15 PM
Oh this gets even better, the MLK Jr. St. Bridge over the Borman in Northwest Indiana has to be rebuilt, and that was constructed in 2004.
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/gary/article_3ff52228-5d51-5999-8b30-59d5ce505429.html
I guess construction isn't completely over on the Borman afterall.
INDOT found cracks in the MLK bridge and are suing the contractor, Superior Construction. I believe Superior Construction was also the contractor involved with building the now closed section of Cline Avenue. That bridge was built in the early 80s. Superior also did the I-65 widening from 53rd Avenue north and that pavement does not look real good for as new as it is.
Quote from: ShawnP on September 19, 2011, 05:31:51 PM
Any engineers or Holiday Inn folks have any ideals?
http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Sherman-Minton-Bridge-welds-vertical-cracks-concern-engineers-130146593.html
I am learning about structural engineering in my profession, so don't take my word as gospel truth, but for starters, why do they have a politician trying to explain an engineering problem? What about a structural engineer that is more familiar with what's going on here? Secondly, all of the members are not welded together; you can clearly see in the close-up shots that some of the members are bolted together. Even though it does make things harder to replace if members are welded together, welds are typically stronger than bolts are. especially groove welds or complete penetration welds.
One news conference had the the expert engineer brought in from New York and one had the INDOT's chief bridge engineer. In all honesty, the real engineers need to be working on the problem anyway, and that was said at least once. I agree mayors, senators, and congressmen need not be on all the time, but it is appropriate to have the DOT commissioners (who are engineers) from both states. As INDOT maintains the bridge, I am surprised that they didn't cover the INDOT commissioner's last news conference where he announced the bridge need not be replaced, but they had full video of the conference with all the politicians and bureaucrats having nothing to do with INDOT. That was held shortly after the significant announcement and turned into a rally for the second stimulus.
True about the stimulus as it turns this bridge is not about bad infrastructure but bad inspections.
I wouldn't be so quick to condemn the inspections. Apparently they knew the crack was there but prior to this time, it was deemed to not be a problem. Not unlike a doctor noticing an unusual mole but deciding not to order a biopsy or its removal unless something changes with it.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 27, 2011, 10:18:40 AM
I wouldn't be so quick to condemn the inspections. Apparently they knew the crack was there but prior to this time, it was deemed to not be a problem. Not unlike a doctor noticing an unusual mole but deciding not to order a biopsy or its removal unless something changes with it.
But surely the inspectors figured that the crack would get bigger over time? I don't know what, if anything, could have been done to keep the crack from growing bigger.
I do think the inspectors did their job well in this situation. They found the crack and recommended the bridge closure before anyone was injured or killed. It is inconvenient for many, but the alternative could have been much, much worse.
If I had to place blame here I would blame the INDOT maintenance crew for not keeping the bridge maintained so that things like this could have been prevented.
Quote from: codyg1985 on September 27, 2011, 10:26:14 AM
If I had to place blame here I would blame the INDOT maintenance crew for not keeping the bridge maintained so that things like this could have been prevented.
The facts will come out, but that judgement is currently premature. If there is blame - keep in mind the bridge has reached its design life, it could lie with:
- INDOT inspectors if they didn't follow procedures (if they even inspected this bridge)
- the contractors hired by INDOT if they didn't follow procedures (if contractors did the inspections which is what was said)
- FHWA bridge inspection procedures or requirements could have been lacking
It could be any of the four, a combination, or something else completely. Eventually, any bridge or structure will deteriorate so it could simply be a symptom of age.
If anyone has facts, they can assess blame. Otherwise, it is guesswork at best.
On the size of the crack, didn't they say it has been there since 1962, and they don't know if it grew over time? I personally have no idea, but it will be interesting to hear what the results of further testing will be.
Quote from: tdindy88 on September 09, 2011, 07:38:07 PM
Hm....maybe they can start work on the East End Bridge this weekend. Louisville just better hope that this doens't become like the SR 912 Bridge situation in Northwest Indiana. That one has yet to open and its been close for about a year.
I thought that was closed permanently?
Govs. Daniels and Beshear and Victor Mendez from FHWA are having a press conference today. I expect them to announce repair plans.
20 million and six months of misery............stay away from Louisville folks. Wonder if they get smart and paint it while it's closed.
http://www.whas.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=283307%3Ffeed%3D283307&article=9187286
Its all in the way you look at it. In addition to the obvious - no collapse, no injuries, in 21 days, they:
- identified the problem and defined a fix that is relatively inexpensive (~$20M)
- are putting it out for bid ASAP (2 weeks or less)
- have approvals from both states, FHWA, and two engineering firms
- have supposedly already ordered the new steel
- gotten funding in place
- will have the bridge in use in months instead of years as a replacement would have required
- will extend the life of bridge for at least 20 years
I'd call this pretty amazing.
I'm thinking they knew about it earlier. I'm thinking July 1st as a target date. I would hate to see them cheap it and avoid painting just torture people a few years down the road. The time is now and it will never be as easy. As far as money you just find it and if you don't have extra money for just this reason then shame on KYTC and INDOT.
Slap and patch..........no painting just slap some patching on already aging steel. Cheap fix to cheap maintenance thru the decades that lead to a closed Interstate.
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20111018/BUSINESS/310180028/1008/NEWS01/Louisville-firm-chosen-repair-Sherman-Minton-Bridge-says-can-done-by-early-March?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CLocal%20News
Cracks misclassified on Sherman Minton Bridge before shutdown (http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20111209/EXTRAS18/312090089/Cracks-misclassified-on-Sherman-Minton-Bridge-before-shutdown?odyssey=tab%7Cmostpopular%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE) (from Louisville Courier-Journal)
So the bridge inspectors definitely were contractors.
Ahhhhhhhhh the contractors did it. Nope still under INDOT's perview. In the Navy we have saying. You can delegate the work but never the responsibility. So INDOT's still on the hook in my book.
QuoteBut according to the federal memo, the cracks were caused by hydrogen being caught in the metal during the welding process.
I wonder if they used a large-sized weld that is prone to lots of heat to be discharged?
QuoteIndiana and federal officials said this week that the cracks weren't severe enough to warrant closing the bridge. But the discovery that the cracks were "critical" – a trigger for additional inspections or other immediate action – prompted the work that found a separate, hidden crack on the bridge, resulting in its Sept. 9 closure.
At least INDOT saw that the cracks affected critical members which eventually led to the closure of the bridge. I still say a larger disaster was averted and it could have been much, much worse.
Quote from: ShawnP on December 11, 2011, 02:15:05 PM
In the Navy we have saying. You can delegate the work but never the responsibility. So INDOT's still on the hook in my book.
So true. When I was an Air Force officer, in any type of training environment someone would eventually remind those present that "you can delegate authority but not responsibility." I've said it myself many times when training others (even in civilian life).
Words to live by if ever there were.
Interesting offer from the Casino. Pictures and Video also.........
http://www.wdrb.com/story/16324231/only-on-wdrb-hall-construction-speaks-out-on-sherman-minton-bridge-repairs
Sherman Minton Bridge likely to open 'days' before deadline (http://www.courier-journal.com/article/2012301250107) (from courier-journal.com)
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120214/NEWS01/302140035/Sherman-Minton-Bridge-reopening
http://www.wdrb.com/story/16961749/sherman-minton-bridge-re-opens
Midnight tonight!
Partially open...........they will close lanes to paint the new steel.
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 17, 2012, 03:53:17 PM
http://www.wdrb.com/story/16961749/sherman-minton-bridge-re-opens
And it's now open once again. Off to update OSM if nobody else beats me to it.
Kinda, sorta open. They will have major lane closures as they have to paint the new steel. INDOT could be have some very mad folks if traffic still backs up. My theory all along has been to close it and do all painting, decking and other work that would be needed to keep the bridge around 30 plus more years. Indiana has almost 2 billion extra dollars in the bank so it could "find" the money. Perfect chance for INDOT to make a BOLD statement to folks that they can take a bad situation and turn it around. Instead it went with the cheapest route and we have a bridge that still needs repair work.
Closed again indefinitely
SM-G996U
Quote from: ibthebigd on July 30, 2023, 12:47:46 PM
Closed again indefinitely
SM-G996U
From the Bridge project site, posted Friday 28 July:
https://shermanmintonrenewal.com/friday-evening-i-64-bridge-update/
Quote from: ilpt4u on July 30, 2023, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: ibthebigd on July 30, 2023, 12:47:46 PM
Closed again indefinitely
SM-G996U
From the Bridge project site, posted Friday 28 July:
https://shermanmintonrenewal.com/friday-evening-i-64-bridge-update/
That reminds me of what happened with the I-40 bridge over the Mississippi in Memphis.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 30, 2023, 09:55:02 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on July 30, 2023, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: ibthebigd on July 30, 2023, 12:47:46 PM
Closed again indefinitely
SM-G996U
From the Bridge project site, posted Friday 28 July:
https://shermanmintonrenewal.com/friday-evening-i-64-bridge-update/
That reminds me of what happened with the I-40 bridge over the Mississippi in Memphis.
At least Metro Louisville has 2 other interstate-grade Ohio River crossings and a 3rd local crossing for vehicular traffic. Granted, the two other interstate (grade since I-265 still isn't fully approved and signed for the East End crossing) are toll crossings. The local/US 31 bridge into downtown Louisville is the only current remaining free crossing
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 30, 2023, 09:55:02 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on July 30, 2023, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: ibthebigd on July 30, 2023, 12:47:46 PM
Closed again indefinitely
SM-G996U
From the Bridge project site, posted Friday 28 July:
https://shermanmintonrenewal.com/friday-evening-i-64-bridge-update/
That reminds me of what happened with the I-40 bridge over the Mississippi in Memphis.
How many times did Arkansas & Tennessee have to close the I-40 bridge in Memphis?
This is the 2nd time in 12 years Indiana & Kentucky have had to close the I-64 bridge.
https://shermanmintonrenewal.com/i-64-bridge-update-3/
Update from Monday, 31 July
Basically, INDOT and KYTC are hoping/planning to have the bridge reopen to traffic by Monday 7 Aug AM Rush
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 01, 2023, 09:17:57 PM
https://shermanmintonrenewal.com/i-64-bridge-update-3/
Update from Monday, 31 July
Basically, INDOT and KYTC are hoping/planning to have the bridge reopen to traffic by Monday 7 Aug AM Rush
Update today is that the bridge will not reopen before the AM rush hour. The latest press release makes it sound less hopeful and that when it does reopen it will only be the lower deck. The upper deck will remain closed indefinitely. https://shermanmintonrenewal.com/crews-continue-repairs-on-kentucky-approach-bridge-throughout-the-weekend/
Good news. On Monday, after the completion of emergency repairs, KYTC and its contractor, Kokosing, reopened the lower deck of the bridge. (https://shermanmintonrenewal.com/i-64-lower-bridge-deck-reopened-in-eastbound-direction-westbound-to-follow-after-midnight/) The upper deck, which carries one westbound lane of traffic, will remain closed until a permanent repair completes.
The renewal project, which is expected to extend the service life of the bridge by 30 years, is costing about $140 million. To construct a completely new bridge would probably be in the ballpark of $2 billion. Pretty much a no-brainer to do the renewal.
If the Sherman Minton Bridge were ever completely reconstructed with a new bridge, I would imagine it would be reconstructed as a single-decked bridge instead of a double-decked bridge. Since the two decks opened in 1961 and 1962, how much service life might the existing bridge have before such a reconstruction is warranted?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 07, 2023, 08:24:13 PM
If the Sherman Minton Bridge were ever completely reconstructed with a new bridge, I would imagine it would be reconstructed as a single-decked bridge instead of a double-decked bridge. Since the two decks opened in 1961 and 1962, how much service life might the existing bridge have before such a reconstruction is warranted?
It's not so much the deck that determines when a bridge should be replaced. Decks can be rebuilt and modernized. It's the piers that tend to be more problematic. If they start to significantly deteriorate that's when talk usually begins about the need for a new bridge. The decks of the Sherman Minton are not particularly old, having been opened, as you note, in 1961 and 1962. The goal of the current renewal project is the extend the life of the bridge another 30 years. That means it should remain a viable structure to at least 2050, if not several years more.
The age of a bridge doesn't always determine its obsolescence. The Brooklyn Bridge, for example, is 140 years old. In Evansville, downriver from the Sherman Minton, the northbound span of the Twin Bridges is 91 years old. And that's the bridge they want to keep instead of the newer southbound span, which opened in 1965.
Thread bump!
As noted in the Indiana Notes thread...
Quote from: 74/171FAN on March 08, 2024, 06:50:11 PM
Well that bridge is closed now. (https://www.wave3.com/2024/03/08/immediate-total-closure-ordered-sherman-minton-bridge/)
Quote from: ilpt4u on March 08, 2024, 08:42:44 PM
Thread bump!
As noted in the Indiana Notes thread...
Quote from: 74/171FAN on March 08, 2024, 06:50:11 PM
Well that bridge is closed now. (https://www.wave3.com/2024/03/08/immediate-total-closure-ordered-sherman-minton-bridge/)
Worse, this happens as the Clark Memorial Bridge -- the only other free crossing between Indiana and Louisville -- has one lane closed indefinitely southbound (https://www.whas11.com/article/traffic/replacement-steel-clark-memorial-bridge-timeline-repairs-traffic-impacts-louisville-kentucky-indiana/417-165a1dc7-22da-4f26-8e7e-d6f2b928b138) after a truck crash last week.
Quote from: JMoses24 on March 09, 2024, 02:40:03 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on March 08, 2024, 08:42:44 PM
Thread bump!
As noted in the Indiana Notes thread...
Quote from: 74/171FAN on March 08, 2024, 06:50:11 PM
Well that bridge is closed now. (https://www.wave3.com/2024/03/08/immediate-total-closure-ordered-sherman-minton-bridge/)
Worse, this happens as the Clark Memorial Bridge -- the only other free crossing between Indiana and Louisville -- has one lane closed indefinitely southbound (https://www.whas11.com/article/traffic/replacement-steel-clark-memorial-bridge-timeline-repairs-traffic-impacts-louisville-kentucky-indiana/417-165a1dc7-22da-4f26-8e7e-d6f2b928b138) after a truck crash last week.
They should suspend tolling on I-65 until at least one of the free bridges is fully open.
Here's the official INDOT update (https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/INDOT/bulletins/38fb15a) on the bridge closure, released earlier today. As noted in the update, prior to a section deck pour on the upper deck, it was discovered that a lateral beam (or beams) was out of alignment. I assume the inspections now underway are to determine why this issue occurred. This is fairly serious as a fixed steel beam just doesn't shift or deform on its own. They'll be looking at joints, other beams, all and everything. It may or may not be a simple fix.
as much as this bridge is closed or nearly closed for repairs, perhaps they should just build a new bridge...
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 09, 2024, 07:54:56 PM
as much as this bridge is closed or nearly closed for repairs, perhaps they should just build a new bridge...
After the 65 and the 265 bridges, I'm guessing a new 64 bridge would also be a toll bridge...
Quote from: ITB on March 09, 2024, 06:29:13 PM
Here's the official INDOT update (https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/INDOT/bulletins/38fb15a) on the bridge closure, released earlier today. As noted in the update, prior to a section deck pour on the upper deck, it was discovered that a lateral beam (or beams) was out of alignment. I assume the inspections now underway are to determine why this issue occurred. This is fairly serious as a fixed steel beam just doesn't shift or deform on its own. They'll be looking at joints, other beams, all and everything. It may or may not be a simple fix.
The crews were removing temporary bracing, so I'm thinking they may have over-braced or under-braced something and it moved out of spec. I am starting to wonder if they'll ever get the damn thing done. Seems like it's turning into a real money pit.
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on July 30, 2023, 10:50:29 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 30, 2023, 09:55:02 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on July 30, 2023, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: ibthebigd on July 30, 2023, 12:47:46 PM
Closed again indefinitely
SM-G996U
From the Bridge project site, posted Friday 28 July:
https://shermanmintonrenewal.com/friday-evening-i-64-bridge-update/
That reminds me of what happened with the I-40 bridge over the Mississippi in Memphis.
How many times did Arkansas & Tennessee have to close the I-40 bridge in Memphis?
This is the 2nd time in 12 years Indiana & Kentucky have had to close the I-64 bridge.
I'm starting to think that you have a point here.
Its open.
Turns out it was a issue with the lateral floor beams under the top deck..
So it could have been worse.
https://shermanmintonrenewal.com/i-64-bridge-reopens-to-traffic/
WDRB-TV in Louisville reported that the beams were misaligned by the construction rigging. I sort of thought that might have been it in my previous post, but wasn't sure until the news report confirmed it.
https://www.wdrb.com/in-depth/official-construction-gear-caused-concern-that-led-to-sherman-minton-bridge-shutdown/article_f033fb3c-e163-11ee-9207-3f0f9a871283.html