Fed sher is known for his road geek videos in the Buenos Aires area. One of his videos also includes freeways/tollways in Buenos Aires.
It's like you knew I'm here. Craziest thing I've noticed so far is how prominent the lateral stripes are approaching a toll plaza and then the presence of actual speed bumps. On a freeway.
Other notes: Av 9 de Julio is the world's widest street. You feel like you're looking across a river at the other side. Found a quadruple left turn: https://maps.app.goo.gl/fp5cBLC9Su58DyD6A
Old street signs abound - porcelain - mainly for street names and tiny one-way arrows. And there's a neat reversible lane system on what's normally a 10-lane one way road - do you know of any wider one laners? https://maps.app.goo.gl/TvokhzsUKhXtxzzo8
Another note: The first several hundred km of RN14 are a superstreet, in essence. For all Argentina reminds me of Texas, this is something different and better. By removing all cross streets in favor of U-turns, there are many fewer opportunities for traffic conflicts while inconveniencing only a few locals.
President Macri announced plans to reconstruct major highways in Argentina as a PPP project. It includes a number of corridors to be upgraded to autopista, semi-autopista or other improvements. This is in line with much of South America, a large proportion of road upgrades are funded through tolls. The entire program includes over 7500 kilometers of roads to be upgraded.
Official website: https://ppp.vialidad.gob.ar/
Several concessions were awarded in 2018:
· Corredor vial A: Consorcio: Paolini, Vial Agro, INC.
(https://i.imgur.com/JzVgppB.jpg)
· Corredor vial B: Consorcio: China Construction America, Green SA.
(https://i.imgur.com/i9nVqbF.jpg)
· Corredor vial C: Consorcio: Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles SA.
(https://i.imgur.com/0MrVhJF.jpg)
· Corredor vial E: Consorcio: Helport, Panedile, Eleprint, Copasa.
(https://i.imgur.com/OFvUjJx.jpg)
· Corredor vial F: Consorcio: Helport, Panedile, Eleprint, Copasa.
(https://i.imgur.com/DbvlCnE.jpg)
· Corredor vial SUR: Consorcio: Rovella Carranza, JCR SA, Mota - Engil.
(https://i.imgur.com/Zz2CtP5.jpg)
So this happened. Public post, cool photos. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2580663065301435&id=161728560528243&ref=page_internal&__tn__=%2Cg
Well, Paseo del Bajo just opened. Nice.
New Video from Fed sher (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFtp5UQvvD8)
Yes, Paseo de Bajo was open to trucks when I was in BA and I saw them using it.
I just traveled half a new freeway today! NR 19 east of Córdoba is open WB with traffic on the old road EB. Still being extended to ultimately connect as autovia all the way to Santa Fe, albeit with side connections (not a true freeway).
I found the most boring road in Argentina and possibly the world. RP10 west of Telen. It's over 100 km of grassland scrub and straightaways. The longest one is 17 miles. I had so much time on my hands I converted from metric in my head just for fun (I believe it was 27.7 km). There were 3 road junctions in that distance. I started hallucinating faces in the sky. I cheered the appearance of a bird or another vehicle because it was something to look at. Seriously, I-80 in Nebraska is charging compared to this.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cTC3WsNBtY)
Very nice video. It's amazing to me that so many of the wider and busier streets have speed bumps.
Quote from: mrsman on July 11, 2019, 06:07:55 PM
Very nice video. It's amazing to me that so many of the wider and busier streets have speed bumps.
Dude, pretty much every road except freeways has them! Throughout the country!
Quote from: Alps on July 11, 2019, 07:32:11 PM
Quote from: mrsman on July 11, 2019, 06:07:55 PM
Very nice video. It's amazing to me that so many of the wider and busier streets have speed bumps.
Dude, pretty much every road except freeways has them! Throughout the country!
Never having been there, it is interesting to note the differences to the USA. It's an interesting idea in traffic planning to say the least. I guess it improves interaction between pedestrians and motor traffic. But on the downside, it likely will push more traffic onto the freeways (just like badly timed traffic signals does in many parts of the USA).
Quote from: mrsman on July 12, 2019, 12:19:11 PM
Quote from: Alps on July 11, 2019, 07:32:11 PM
Quote from: mrsman on July 11, 2019, 06:07:55 PM
Very nice video. It's amazing to me that so many of the wider and busier streets have speed bumps.
Dude, pretty much every road except freeways has them! Throughout the country!
Never having been there, it is interesting to note the differences to the USA. It's an interesting idea in traffic planning to say the least. I guess it improves interaction between pedestrians and motor traffic. But on the downside, it likely will push more traffic onto the freeways (just like badly timed traffic signals does in many parts of the USA).
There are no freeways outside Buenos Aires.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8Evu9ZUvWQ)
Quote from: Alps on July 12, 2019, 12:21:25 PM
There are no freeways outside Buenos Aires.
Not even on others major Argentine cities like Rosario, Cordoba, San Juan and Mendoza?
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on July 14, 2019, 09:37:18 AM
Quote from: Alps on July 12, 2019, 12:21:25 PM
There are no freeways outside Buenos Aires.
Not even on others major Argentine cities like Rosario, Cordoba, San Juan and Mendoza?
Nope. Check the map. They've got side streets, driveways, turnarounds.
The autopista from Rosario to Córdoba doesn't seem too bad, except for the last couple km to Córdoba. Most of the at-grades seen unofficial, at least in street view, and there is a gas station or two acting like a turnpike service area.
Another interesting thing to note from some of these videos is the lack of stop/yield signs at many 4-way intersections. It seems like, unless you are crossing a multi-lane street or you face a signalized intersection, every intersection is treated as an all-way yield. First come, first served.
No city in the US would ever have that. Even in rural areas, unless it is really secluded, you will see traffic control signs.
Many suburban T-intersections in the US don't have traffic control, but I'm sure there is a law that unsigned T-intersections force a yield on the street that ends.
Quote from: mrsman on August 09, 2019, 04:24:13 PM
Another interesting thing to note from some of these videos is the lack of stop/yield signs at many 4-way intersections. It seems like, unless you are crossing a multi-lane street or you face a signalized intersection, every intersection is treated as an all-way yield. First come, first served.
No city in the US would ever have that. Even in rural areas, unless it is really secluded, you will see traffic control signs.
I live in the middle of a city whose population is nearly 400,000. My house is between two uncontrolled intersections.
Quote from: mrsman on August 09, 2019, 04:24:13 PM
Many suburban T-intersections in the US don't have traffic control, but I'm sure there is a law that unsigned T-intersections force a yield on the street that ends.
This is the kind of thing that would vary from state to state. I recall that being the law in Illinois, but I am unable to find such a law in the Uniform Vehicle Code.
Quote from: kphoger on August 09, 2019, 05:42:57 PM
Quote from: mrsman on August 09, 2019, 04:24:13 PM
Another interesting thing to note from some of these videos is the lack of stop/yield signs at many 4-way intersections. It seems like, unless you are crossing a multi-lane street or you face a signalized intersection, every intersection is treated as an all-way yield. First come, first served.
No city in the US would ever have that. Even in rural areas, unless it is really secluded, you will see traffic control signs.
I live in the middle of a city whose population is nearly 400,000. My house is between two uncontrolled intersections.
Such is quite rare east of the Mississippi, and especially in the Eastern time zone.
You may remember our discussion several months ago; I didn't even know such a thing existed until you posted some examples. I'll bet most people I know from this area and east would find it weird to have an uncontrolled intersection and wouldn't even know how it's supposed to function.
Quote from: webny99 on August 09, 2019, 08:25:55 PM
Such is quite rare east of the Mississippi ... You may remember our discussion several months ago
That discussion in which I said "it only took about three or four tries to find an uncontrolled four-way intersection in the Chicago area"? Yep, I remember. From 1999 to 2000, I attended a university in River Forest (from which suburb you can literally throw a rock into Chicago city limits); there are uncontrolled four-way intersections a mere one block away from college campus there. From about 2002 to 2006, I lived in a 6-flat apartment building in Wheaton (suburban Chicago) that is situated at the corner of an uncontrolled T intersection. At the same time, my wife (who was not yet my wife) was a live-in nanny in Naperville (also suburban Chicago), and that family's house is situated on a cul-de-sac that had an uncontrolled intersection with the street it connected to.
Look, I'm not saying uncontrolled intersections aren't rare in the eastern USA. I just couldn't stomach the assertion "No city in the US would ever have that" when, off the top of my head, I could name multiple uncontrolled intersections in the third-largest metro area in the US. A city which, by the way, is decidedly east of the Mississippi.
Heck, there are even a few in the Rochester suburbs that I never noticed because the intersections were so familiar that the abnormality never entered my mind.
Quote from: webny99 on August 09, 2019, 08:25:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 09, 2019, 05:42:57 PM
Quote from: mrsman on August 09, 2019, 04:24:13 PM
Another interesting thing to note from some of these videos is the lack of stop/yield signs at many 4-way intersections. It seems like, unless you are crossing a multi-lane street or you face a signalized intersection, every intersection is treated as an all-way yield. First come, first served.
No city in the US would ever have that. Even in rural areas, unless it is really secluded, you will see traffic control signs.
I live in the middle of a city whose population is nearly 400,000. My house is between two uncontrolled intersections.
Such is quite rare east of the Mississippi, and especially in the Eastern time zone.
You may remember our discussion several months ago; I didn't even know such a thing existed until you posted some examples. I'll bet most people I know from this area and east would find it weird to have an uncontrolled intersection and wouldn't even know how it's supposed to function.
I'm from New Jersey and my parents' house is between uncontrolled intersections. It's treated as a "go unless you see someone".
Quote from: vdeane on August 10, 2019, 09:50:40 PM
Heck, there are even a few in the Rochester suburbs that I never noticed because the intersections were so familiar that the abnormality never entered my mind.
Indeed. The town in CT where I grew up has a good number of uncontrolled T-intersections where the street at the stem of the T is a dead end or cul-de-sac.
Not the sort of thing I really notice if I'm not explicitly looking for it since I don't in practice actually treat these intersections any differently than I would ones with a physical stop sign - in my mind the presence of one is implied by the intersection geometry even if there is not one explicitly there.
Now yes, legally speaking if the intersection is uncontrolled you do not need to come to a stop, you only need to yield to other vehicles if any are present. But let's be honest, this is no different from typical driver response to an actual stop sign.
For a 4-way intersection, how is one supposed to know that it is uncontrolled on all sides? In the places where I've lived, the general rule was that if there was no sign control on the street you were one, there were controls of some sort for the cross-street (stop or yield) to clearly define the right of way.
What makes it different in other places? Is it the assumption that if you are driving 25 MPH or less that you can just basically stop if someone else is coming? Is it the assumption that certain rural and suburban areas have so little traffic that it is simply unlikely that two cars will be crossing at the same time?
I can tell you that the video from Argentina that I watched upthread, that generated this discussion, seemed to be in a relatively busy area and the sudden stops that were apparent shows that a lot of close calls can happen without adequate control. Perhaps they have different standards south of the border.
Quote from: mrsman on August 27, 2019, 02:19:34 PM
For a 4-way intersection, how is one supposed to know that it is uncontrolled on all sides? In the places where I've lived, the general rule was that if there was no sign control on the street you were one, there were controls of some sort for the cross-street (stop or yield) to clearly define the right of way.
What makes it different in other places? Is it the assumption that if you are driving 25 MPH or less that you can just basically stop if someone else is coming? Is it the assumption that certain rural and suburban areas have so little traffic that it is simply unlikely that two cars will be crossing at the same time?
I can tell you that the video from Argentina that I watched upthread, that generated this discussion, seemed to be in a relatively busy area and the sudden stops that were apparent shows that a lot of close calls can happen without adequate control. Perhaps they have different standards south of the border.
In low-speed neighborhoods, you should be keeping a careful enough eye on your surroundings to see a street coming up. Also, T's lend themselves better than +'s to uncontrol.
Quote from: kphoger on August 09, 2019, 05:42:57 PM
Quote from: mrsman on August 09, 2019, 04:24:13 PM
Another interesting thing to note from some of these videos is the lack of stop/yield signs at many 4-way intersections. It seems like, unless you are crossing a multi-lane street or you face a signalized intersection, every intersection is treated as an all-way yield. First come, first served.
No city in the US would ever have that. Even in rural areas, unless it is really secluded, you will see traffic control signs.
I live in the middle of a city whose population is nearly 400,000. My house is between two uncontrolled intersections.
I was dating someone in the Ocean View area of Norfolk in 1983, and the 4-way intersection down her street was uncontrolled. Not sure about now as I don't remember the name of the street.
Seemed dangerous to me, as at first I didn't know that there were no stop or yield signs, and that I couldn't assume that the lack of such on my street means that the other street has one.
Quote from: webny99 on August 09, 2019, 08:25:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 09, 2019, 05:42:57 PM
Quote from: mrsman on August 09, 2019, 04:24:13 PM
Another interesting thing to note from some of these videos is the lack of stop/yield signs at many 4-way intersections. It seems like, unless you are crossing a multi-lane street or you face a signalized intersection, every intersection is treated as an all-way yield. First come, first served.
No city in the US would ever have that. Even in rural areas, unless it is really secluded, you will see traffic control signs.
I live in the middle of a city whose population is nearly 400,000. My house is between two uncontrolled intersections.
Such is quite rare east of the Mississippi, and especially in the Eastern time zone.
You may remember our discussion several months ago; I didn't even know such a thing existed until you posted some examples. I'll bet most people I know from this area and east would find it weird to have an uncontrolled intersection and wouldn't even know how it's supposed to function.
My internship involves checking every intersection in Massachusetts where at least one road is non-residential and filling in data. (I'm not the only one doing it, so I don't have to do the whole state). 4-way uncontrolled intersections are somewhat common.
What about priority to the right. Is it a thing in Argentina?
In Europe it is common to varying degrees, while 4-way / all-way STOP signs are virtually non-existent. What you guys describe as 'uncontrolled' (i.e. no priority or STOP signs) would be priority to the right in most of Europe. Maybe it's the same in Argentina, although they are not a signatory to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic.
Quote from: Chris on September 13, 2019, 01:32:16 PM
What about priority to the right. Is it a thing in Argentina?
In Europe it is common to varying degrees, while 4-way / all-way STOP signs are virtually non-existent. What you guys describe as 'uncontrolled' (i.e. no priority or STOP signs) would be priority to the right in most of Europe. Maybe it's the same in Argentina, although they are not a signatory to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic.
Perhaps you can explain a little how this works in Europe. Is the basic assumption that any intersection without signage one that must give priority to the right? Are the exceptions then signed with a yellow diamond, indicating that you indeed have right of way (despite who enters the intersection first) and that cross street traffic faces a stop or a yield?
I guess the basic question is whether it is clear who indeed has the right of way. In the areas where I have lived, admittedly within the boundaries of the largest cities (and suburbs) in the US, the assumption was that if you don't see a stop or a yield, you have the right of way. 4-way stops are common and a form of priority on right exists to handle the situation if two cars approach on cross streets at the same time.
Yet, there are other areas in the country (based on comments upthread) where this is not the case. There are plenty of completely uncontrolled intersections where both sets of cross streets have equal right of way (like a 4-way stop without stopping) and a priority on right system exists. These typically occur in rural areas and also in some suburban areas, generally on streets with low traffic volume and/or low traffic speed. Nothing anywhere as busy as the streets in Argentina shown on these videos.
The main question is how is a driver supposed to know the difference. How do you know whether or not you are on a road with priority over cross streets or on a road with equal priority to cross streets? It is surprising that in the US, there is no clear answer.
I'd say most intersections in Europe have some kind of priority indicated, usually for the main road. In the Netherlands nearly everything in residential areas is priority to the right, this is seen as a tool for 'traffic calming'. However in Spain, Germany, Italy or France almost every intersection has a priority and yield situation, except on very low speed roads (like parking lots).
I don't recall having ever entered an intersection that works on a first come, first go basis, like the all-way stops in North America.
For example, this sign means you have priority.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Spain_traffic_sign_p1.svg/120px-Spain_traffic_sign_p1.svg.png)
This sign means you have to yield to all conflicting traffic (left and right).
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Spain_traffic_signal_r1.svg/120px-Spain_traffic_signal_r1.svg.png)
And of course the stop sign, usually on locations where stopping is needed to get a clear view and safe passage (and you have to yield to all traffic until the road is clear).
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Spain_traffic_signal_r2.svg/120px-Spain_traffic_signal_r2.svg.png)
Quote from: Chris on September 20, 2019, 01:40:17 PM
I'd say most intersections in Europe have some kind of priority indicated, usually for the main road. In the Netherlands nearly everything in residential areas is priority to the right, this is seen as a tool for 'traffic calming'. However in Spain, Germany, Italy or France almost every intersection has a priority and yield situation, except on very low speed roads (like parking lots).
I don't recall having ever entered an intersection that works on a first come, first go basis, like the all-way stops in North America.
IMO, this is far better than what exists in the USA. It would be so much better if every intersection had one direction with a clear priority. The only time that priority should change would be at a traffic signal.
Here is a new freeway video by Fed Sher in Argentina.
Quote from: bing101 on December 01, 2019, 09:06:11 AM
Here is a new freeway video by Fed Sher in Argentina.
What does the "diamond-E" painted on (usually) the #2 lane mean? It's obviously not related to parking, but I'm otherwise stumped.
Like the use of signals on the near side of mast arms along many of the major streets.
Not liking the sudden loss of a left lane to accommodate a left turn lane in the reverse direction in several places. See 12:49 where the driver runs the red light for one example.
Quote from: Kniwt on December 01, 2019, 11:25:23 AM
Quote from: bing101 on December 01, 2019, 09:06:11 AM
Here is a new freeway video by Fed Sher in Argentina.
What does the "diamond-E" painted on (usually) the #2 lane mean? It's obviously not related to parking, but I'm otherwise stumped.
I had asked about this and I think it was related to emergency vehicles - if you see sirens, clear that lane for them.
Quote from: Alps on December 01, 2019, 01:42:31 PM
Quote from: Kniwt on December 01, 2019, 11:25:23 AM
Quote from: bing101 on December 01, 2019, 09:06:11 AM
Here is a new freeway video by Fed Sher in Argentina.
What does the "diamond-E" painted on (usually) the #2 lane mean? It's obviously not related to parking, but I'm otherwise stumped.
I had asked about this and I think it was related to emergency vehicles - if you see sirens, clear that lane for them.
This makes sense. It is somewhat similar to the fire Lanes in New York City. how many of the avenues and certain wider streets it isn't the left lane that is reserved for emergency vehicles or rather one of the central lanes. Perhaps, just like in America, the normal rule is to clear the left lane for emergency vehicles but there are certain exceptions where the second lane is preferred.
Nexus 5X
Quote from: Alps on December 01, 2019, 01:42:31 PM
Quote from: Kniwt on December 01, 2019, 11:25:23 AM
What does the "diamond-E" painted on (usually) the #2 lane mean? It's obviously not related to parking, but I'm otherwise stumped.
I had asked about this and I think it was related to emergency vehicles - if you see sirens, clear that lane for them.
Sure enough, that's it. Knowing the answer, I was able to do a better search, and I found it in the Buenos Aires drivers' manual:
https://www.buenosaires.gob.ar/sites/gcaba/files/manual_del_conductor_22_de_julio-comprimido_4.pdf
(https://i.imgur.com/Bv3M2tO.png)
Cool Tour of Buenos Aires as usual.
Quote from: Chris on September 13, 2019, 01:32:16 PM
What about priority to the right. Is it a thing in Argentina?
Checking the 2017 traffic signage manual now, but so far I only see the "Yield to oncoming traffic sign", though the user who digitized and uploaded that sign to Wikimedia Commons admits that Argentine road signage is one of his to-do projects because the amount of signage for Argentina that exists is incomplete.
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Argentina_MSV_2017_road_sign_R-29.svg (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Argentina_MSV_2017_road_sign_R-29.svg)>
If Argentina is anything like Latin America outside of Cuba, priority to the right is probably non-existent, at least as far as signage goes. One would have to check their driver's manuals.
I should add, though, before I continue, that our very own MikeTheActuary might be able to get in touch with the Argentine government:
(https://i.imgur.com/z33GuRc.png)
And why is this the case, you ask? Because it matches older specs they had from the '70s.
Another Street Tour on Argentina.
Just noticed from flying overhead today that there is an outer Buenos Aires beltway under construction, at least in the south. I noticed it built on both sides of a town, paved for part of the way, with a parclo on the north side of town, freeway on the south, and town between. Poor homeowners.
The western part of the beltway (between Acceso Oeste and Acceso Norte) opened in 1982.
The remainder of the beltway was started under the Kirchner government in 2011 as the 'Autopista Presidente Perón'. The project was continued under the Macri government, but was renamed the 'Camino Parque del Buen Ayre'. It seems that the name has now been reverted to Perón again.
The 7 kilometer segment between Virrey del Pino and Tristán Suárez has recently opened to traffic: 18 October 2021: https://elnacionaldematanza.com.ar/2021/10/20/virrey-del-pino-habilitaron-un-tramo-de-la-autopista-peron/
Quote from: Chris on December 24, 2021, 07:13:02 AM
The 7 kilometer segment between Virrey del Pino and Tristán Suárez has recently opened to traffic: 18 October 2021: https://elnacionaldematanza.com.ar/2021/10/20/virrey-del-pino-habilitaron-un-tramo-de-la-autopista-peron/
A beautiful new freeway in 2021 ... without hard shoulders?!
(https://elnacionaldematanza.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/au-peron-tr-ii-buenos-aires.jpg)
I bump this thread with that GSV of Highway-40, where the landscape have some more or less similarities with Route 66 in the west.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/F16XLhtx15G32Vbq5
If anyone's interested, here's TM's map of the system (minus a few unsigned routes): https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?rg=ARG