This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom

[empirestate]

Here's something odd, though it's kind of a human construct.  I don't know who decided this, but the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is completely in the eastern time zone except for the counties that border Wisconsin.  I don't know why they didn't put the boundary along the state line, but they put it one county into Michigan instead.  For that reason, as I took a trip to the Porcupine Mountains last July, my buddy and I sat outside and watched the sunset over Lake Superior after reaching our hotel--just after 10pm.

Of course, that's also a function of just being so far north. Even down in Western NY, the July twilight lasts well after 9pm. But nothing prepared me for the effects of this when I visited the UK and Ireland–although I had seen the late summer sun in places like Alaska, I found it very striking when it happens in a place that isn't geographically remote. Going about my business in bustling cities with daylight still plentiful until well past 10:00 was confusing to me, especially combined with the relatively early closing hours of most businesses there.

[Chris]

Summer evenings are pleasant in Scandinavia because the sun sets so late, if it sets at all. I was driving through southern Norway in 2014, and even though I was like 500 miles south of the Arctic Circle, the sky never turned completely dark.

Due to high latitude, northern places in Norway are very far east in longitude. Vardø in northern Norway is farther east than Istanbul. Norway is only 700 miles from Canada, from Svalbard to Ellesmere Island.

Europeans are also often not aware how large Svalbard is. It is twice the area of Belgium and only somewhat smaller than Ireland. It is also farther north than people realize (if they are aware of it at all), it's 660 kilometers from the North Cape. And people actually live on Svalbard, the capital of Longyearbyen has a population of 2,000, which is located 850 kilometers north of the North Cape.

[paulthemapguy]

Here's something odd, though it's kind of a human construct.  I don't know who decided this, but the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is completely in the eastern time zone except for the counties that border Wisconsin.  I don't know why they didn't put the boundary along the state line, but they put it one county into Michigan instead.  For that reason, as I took a trip to the Porcupine Mountains last July, my buddy and I sat outside and watched the sunset over Lake Superior after reaching our hotel--just after 10pm.

Those western counties have closer economic ties to Milwaukee and Minneapolis/St. Paul than to Detroit, hence the different time zone.

Highly debatable...but I won't debate it.

Of course, that's also a function of just being so far north. Even down in Western NY, the July twilight lasts well after 9pm. But nothing prepared me for the effects of this when I visited the UK and Ireland–although I had seen the late summer sun in places like Alaska, I found it very striking when it happens in a place that isn't geographically remote. Going about my business in bustling cities with daylight still plentiful until well past 10:00 was confusing to me, especially combined with the relatively early closing hours of most businesses there.

Yep yep!

Summer evenings are pleasant in Scandinavia because the sun sets so late, if it sets at all. I was driving through southern Norway in 2014, and even though I was like 500 miles south of the Arctic Circle, the sky never turned completely dark.

Due to high latitude, northern places in Norway are very far east in longitude. Vardø in northern Norway is farther east than Istanbul. Norway is only 700 miles from Canada, from Svalbard to Ellesmere Island.

Europeans are also often not aware how large Svalbard is. It is twice the area of Belgium and only somewhat smaller than Ireland. It is also farther north than people realize (if they are aware of it at all), it's 660 kilometers from the North Cape. And people actually live on Svalbard, the capital of Longyearbyen has a population of 2,000, which is located 850 kilometers north of the North Cape.

This actually made my brain flip out a little bit.  The northern reaches are around 70°N latitude.  After fooling around a bit with google maps, I found that a degree from east to west at 70°N latitude is only about 24 miles.  Mercator projection messes with your mind and yet we just take it as based fact of what the world looks like.

[bulldog1979]

Here's something odd, though it's kind of a human construct.  I don't know who decided this, but the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is completely in the eastern time zone except for the counties that border Wisconsin.  I don't know why they didn't put the boundary along the state line, but they put it one county into Michigan instead.  For that reason, as I took a trip to the Porcupine Mountains last July, my buddy and I sat outside and watched the sunset over Lake Superior after reaching our hotel--just after 10pm.

Also, in the days when we had a later start time for Sunday alcohol sales in the state, the statewide start time was 12 noon Eastern Time. That meant the four UP counties on Central Time could legally sell alcohol on Sunday mornings at 11 a.m. local time, or the same start time as Wisconsin. (In the past few years, the state has moved to allow Sunday morning alcohol sales if local municipalities don't disapprove and the liquor license holder buys an additional permit for such sales.)

[SteveG1988]

Did you know that in the UK there are days when it never goes from twilight to night. The sun has to be 18 degrees below the horizon before "night" happens in an astronomical way. the UK is northern enough to where it doesn't happen

[english si]

^^ Yes

At 3am last night, I realized the time when the light through the window was enough to notice. It hadn't got fully dark, but it did get fairly dark (partially due to cloud cover) so when nautical twilight started just before 3am (partially due to cloud cover).

In the US, you will get it in Alaska (and more), and should get it at the 49th on midsummers. Seattle has night-proper every night, but Vancouver has a month where the sun doesn't go below 18 degrees.

[Max Rockatansky]

^^ Yes

At 3am last night, I realized the time when the light through the window was enough to notice. It hadn't got fully dark, but it did get fairly dark (partially due to cloud cover) so when nautical twilight started just before 3am (partially due to cloud cover).

In the US, you will get it in Alaska (and more), and should get it at the 49th on midsummers. Seattle has night-proper every night, but Vancouver has a month where the sun doesn't go below 18 degrees.

I'm fairly certain that also applied to Bellingham up in Washingto right on the British Columbia border. 

[english si]

I'm fairly certain that also applied to Bellingham up in Washingto right on the British Columbia border.

Yes, but it doesn't get that far south of the 49th parallel. Bellingham has 2 weeks (14th to 27th of June) without night-proper, but Victoria, BC has at least 40 minutes of night-proper every day.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Back when Yemen was split, South Yemen reached farther North than North Yemen.

[hbelkins]

West Liberty, Ky., is actually well northeast of Liberty, Ky.

[tckma]

West Liberty, Ky., is actually well northeast of Liberty, Ky.

In Massachusetts, the towns of Marlborough, Westborough, Southborough, and Northborough are not, geographically speaking, in those places.  The whole area used to be part of Marlborough.  I think Westborough broke off first, at which point it was indeed west, but is now mainly south, of Marlborough.  I used to know more about this when I actually lived there.

Also, to quote the cover a live touring album from a particular Canadian band I enjoy: "Canada is a big country.  St. John's[, NL] is closer to Paris than [it is to] Victoria[, BC]."

[kalvado]

Also, to quote the cover a live touring album from a particular Canadian band I enjoy: "Canada is a big country.  St. John's[, NL] is closer to Paris than [it is to] Victoria[, BC]."

Russian second biggest city, Leningrad, is closer to Bangor, ME than easternmost russian cities - Vladivostok or Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LED-PKC,+LED-VVO,+LED-bgr,+LED+-JFK

[Big John]

Also, to quote the cover a live touring album from a particular Canadian band I enjoy: "Canada is a big country.  St. John's[, NL] is closer to Paris than [it is to] Victoria[, BC]."

Russian second biggest city, Leningrad, is closer to Bangor, ME than easternmost russian cities - Vladivostok or Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LED-PKC,+LED-VVO,+LED-bgr,+LED+-JFK

They changed it back to St. Petersburg in the 90s.

[Duke87]

I'm fairly certain that also applied to Bellingham up in Washingto right on the British Columbia border.

Yes, but it doesn't get that far south of the 49th parallel. Bellingham has 2 weeks (14th to 27th of June) without night-proper, but Victoria, BC has at least 40 minutes of night-proper every day.

I'm thinking that with the Arctic Circle at about 66.5 degrees north, the latitude above which nights where the sun does not get more than 18 degrees below the horizon can occur would logically be 66.5 - 18 = 48.5. So there's a strip of the continental US about 30 miles wide that fits the bill.

[jwolfer]

Also, to quote the cover a live touring album from a particular Canadian band I enjoy: "Canada is a big country.  St. John's[, NL] is closer to Paris than [it is to] Victoria[, BC]."

Russian second biggest city, Leningrad, is closer to Bangor, ME than easternmost russian cities - Vladivostok or Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LED-PKC,+LED-VVO,+LED-bgr,+LED+-JFK

They changed it back to St. Petersburg in the 90s.

I have They Might be Giants  "now it's Istanbul not Constantinople.." running thru my head

[mgk920]

I'm fairly certain that also applied to Bellingham up in Washingto right on the British Columbia border.

Yes, but it doesn't get that far south of the 49th parallel. Bellingham has 2 weeks (14th to 27th of June) without night-proper, but Victoria, BC has at least 40 minutes of night-proper every day.

I'm thinking that with the Arctic Circle at about 66.5 degrees north, the latitude above which nights where the sun does not get more than 18 degrees below the horizon can occur would logically be 66.5 - 18 = 48.5. So there's a strip of the continental US about 30 miles wide that fits the bill.

There are a few days every year when the International Space Station does not go into earth's shadow, its orbit goes sufficiently north and south (maximum 51.6442 degrees) that this improper night thing keeps it out of Earth's shadow and visible in overhead passes at local midnight in places where those extremes of its orbit are normally visible on the ground when it is in sunlight at other times of the night.

Mike

[empirestate]

^^ Yes

At 3am last night, I realized the time when the light through the window was enough to notice. It hadn't got fully dark, but it did get fairly dark (partially due to cloud cover) so when nautical twilight started just before 3am (partially due to cloud cover).

In the US, you will get it in Alaska (and more), and should get it at the 49th on midsummers. Seattle has night-proper every night, but Vancouver has a month where the sun doesn't go below 18 degrees.

Watching the news from Britain right now, and I'm struck that it's not yet 4:30 and nearly full daylight.

[english si]

Watching the news from Britain right now, and I'm struck that it's not yet 4:30 and nearly full daylight.

Yep. It started getting lighter here in the south at about 0340. The video from Sunderland in this article was live at about half 10 (it was rather dark here by then).

The Orkney results at 0006 BST were given 10 minutes after streetlights were turned on.

The presenter on the BBC just said "x is joining me early in the morning. Sorry, 7.30 on a June morning isn't early morning is it."

[dvferyance]

I think some people know Key West is closer to Havana then it is to Miami but most are unaware that Alert NU near the Northern tip of Canada is closer to Moscow than it is to Ottawa.

[dvferyance]

Prior to 2002, the Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints were in the NFC West.

While the Arizona Cardinals were in the NFC east.

[Max Rockatansky]

Prior to 2002, the Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints were in the NFC West.

While the Arizona Cardinals were in the NFC east.

Or the Bucs being in the NFC Central....  The Cowboys are still in the NFC East largely due to historic rivalries...

[SignGeek101]

Did you know that in the UK there are days when it never goes from twilight to night. The sun has to be 18 degrees below the horizon before "night" happens in an astronomical way. the UK is northern enough to where it doesn't happen

Not just the UK. Where I live, right now at least, there is no "night". In the winter, the sun only gets to 17 degrees at solar noon.

[jp the roadgeek]

Prior to 2002, the Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints were in the NFC West.

While the Arizona Cardinals were in the NFC east.

Or the Bucs being in the NFC Central....  The Cowboys are still in the NFC East largely due to historic rivalries...

And prior to 1995, the Braves and Reds were in the NL West, and the Cubs and Cardinals were in the NL East.

[SteveG1988]

[tckma]

Border straddling (of the US and Canada)!

Estcourt Station, Maine is far more easily accessible from Canada than it is from the US, but, it's only a few houses and a gas station.
Similarly, there is:

* The town of Hyder, Alaska
* The Northwest Angle of Minnesota
* Point Roberts, Washington
* and a few others I haven't mentioned here.


There's also Canusa Street, the centerline of which is part of the US-Canada border (i.e. the street is in both countries).  A similar situation occurs at the Haskell Free Library and Opera House, part of which is in Derby Line, Vermont, USA and part of which is in Stanstead, Québec, Canada.