New Jersey Turnpike

[roadman65]

If the toll gantry is placed between each exit gap, a flat rate won't increase the rate. Think of the mainline I-476 toll between Keyser Avenue and the PA 315 exchange on the NE Extension. Those between Wyoming Valley and  Clarks Summit whether straight through or one exit only paid the same cash rate.  Those continuing to Clark's Summit paid extra at former endpoint toll plaza, but if you got off at Keyser for gas and re entered the roadway, the toll was the same.  Each barrier charged for miles traveled between each interchange as would a ticket system would.

The issue with the NJ Turnpike is, they penalize you for re entering the Turnpike to get off and back on with an extra toll. That may play into factor when conversation.

[jeffandnicole]

My complete guess is that the Turnpike will replace gantries in-location when all is said and done. I would imagine a study would be done first, but consider that they have all the infrastructure set up at each interchange to power the gantries and handle the information transfer. Why spend more to set all that up at new locations and abandon what you've got set up already? Parkway may or may not go the same route, as there is some opportunity to rethink which ramps are still free given one-way tolling.

I was surprised how far away Maryland put their open road tolling system from the existing plazas. On 95, it's about a mile away, closer to the river. On 50, it's several miles away, on the other fricking side of the river!

Since they are single location tolls, instead of entry/exit points for ticket systems, perhaps they found it cheaper to build the completely separate gantry in a new location, then demolish the entire plaza. Or, possibly, it was better for traffic flow during the project?  Dunno...

The 95 gantry makes some sense.  It's on a rise from the river, so traffic often goes a little slower, and reducing speeds to capture a tag read, or a license plate take, usually helps. It's not really done elsewhere so I'm not sure if it was truly needed, but it seems to be the only justification for where it's located.

The US 50 tolling point?  Yeah, it's definitely well removed from the demolishing of the current plaza, that's for sure.  That seems to be the only justification there.

[vdeane]

Disruptions to traffic when installing gantries/removing toll plazas definitely does factor into gantry locations.  Such is the reason why the Thruway is not entirely a virtual ticket system and has fixed-price gantries in some spots of the former ticket system (which is really annoying for billing, as they don't put them all together into a single charge like MA does).  Work zone traffic configuration is also the reason why the toll crossing the Tappan Zee is now on the Rockland side of the river instead of the Westchester side (such was intended to be temporary until the Thruway was in its final traffic configuration, but then they decided it was simpler to keep the toll there rather than install yet another gantry).

Regarding the New Jersey Turnpike, it's worth noting that the 18E gantries are wide enough for three lanes.  They might be considering keeping them after an AET conversion, though I wonder how hard removing that curb and barrier would be.

[Alps]

My complete guess is that the Turnpike will replace gantries in-location when all is said and done. I would imagine a study would be done first, but consider that they have all the infrastructure set up at each interchange to power the gantries and handle the information transfer. Why spend more to set all that up at new locations and abandon what you've got set up already? Parkway may or may not go the same route, as there is some opportunity to rethink which ramps are still free given one-way tolling.

I was surprised how far away Maryland put their open road tolling system from the existing plazas. On 95, it's about a mile away, closer to the river. On 50, it's several miles away, on the other fricking side of the river!

Since they are single location tolls, instead of entry/exit points for ticket systems, perhaps they found it cheaper to build the completely separate gantry in a new location, then demolish the entire plaza. Or, possibly, it was better for traffic flow during the project?  Dunno...

The 95 gantry makes some sense.  It's on a rise from the river, so traffic often goes a little slower, and reducing speeds to capture a tag read, or a license plate take, usually helps. It's not really done elsewhere so I'm not sure if it was truly needed, but it seems to be the only justification for where it's located.

The US 50 tolling point?  Yeah, it's definitely well removed from the demolishing of the current plaza, that's for sure.  That seems to be the only justification there.

With US 50, it may be a case that the existing plaza did not really have the ITS infrastructure one would need for AET, so even if there was a convenient power drop and potentially a data supply, it would have to be completely redone anyway such that a new location was not at a significant disadvantage.

[famartin]

Just noticed this new sign showing up on GSV...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8458195,-74.018014,3a,75y,180.4h,88.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSD739HnjKm5rp72ON4TlYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I get the point, I do... I just find it vaguely amusing that NJTA is going to pretend the Eastern Spur isn't 95 here by not even signing a route number with it.

[jeffandnicole]

Just noticed this new sign showing up on GSV...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8458195,-74.018014,3a,75y,180.4h,88.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSD739HnjKm5rp72ON4TlYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I get the point, I do... I just find it vaguely amusing that NJTA is going to pretend the Eastern Spur isn't 95 here by not even signing a route number with it.

It's an unusual situation. This has a case for an x95 or a 95x.

When giving directions, how do you tell someone to take 95 to 15E or 16W? How would that be described in normal route terms?

Just another unique situation that really doesn't come into play elsewhere. Even if someone disagrees with a route number, at least there's a route number to follow.

[vdeane]

Even though I'm not really a fan of suffixed interstates, this is really the perfect place for them.  Arguably the southern portion of Turnpike too.  Since Texas is insisting on bringing them back, may as well use them to resolve some numbering abnormalities on the NJ Turnpike!

[jmacswimmer]

If I'm not mistaken, this is also a subtle change from how the area used to be signed...the Western Spur has always been signed as I-95 for traffic coming from the GWB, but for traffic coming from I-80 & US 46 I thought the Eastern Spur was signed as I-95 (and the older signage closer to the split, which still exists as of that streetview, seems to confirm that).

[Alps]

If I'm not mistaken, this is also a subtle change from how the area used to be signed...the Western Spur has always been signed as I-95 for traffic coming from the GWB, but for traffic coming from I-80 & US 46 I thought the Eastern Spur was signed as I-95 (and the older signage closer to the split, which still exists as of that streetview, seems to confirm that).

The intent of the older signage was to ultimately balance traffic between alignments (Easterly and Westerly Alignments, not Spurs).

[famartin]

If I'm not mistaken, this is also a subtle change from how the area used to be signed...the Western Spur has always been signed as I-95 for traffic coming from the GWB, but for traffic coming from I-80 & US 46 I thought the Eastern Spur was signed as I-95 (and the older signage closer to the split, which still exists as of that streetview, seems to confirm that).

The intent of the older signage was to ultimately balance traffic between alignments (Easterly and Westerly Alignments, not Spurs).

We're using the NJTA terminology, not NJDOT. NJDOT calls them alignments (since to them, it is exactly that) but NJTA refers to them as spurs (since they both feature separate termini of the ticket system). Though, you probably know that.

[akotchi]

If I'm not mistaken, this is also a subtle change from how the area used to be signed...the Western Spur has always been signed as I-95 for traffic coming from the GWB, but for traffic coming from I-80 & US 46 I thought the Eastern Spur was signed as I-95 (and the older signage closer to the split, which still exists as of that streetview, seems to confirm that).

The intent of the older signage was to ultimately balance traffic between alignments (Easterly and Westerly Alignments, not Spurs).

We're using the NJTA terminology, not NJDOT. NJDOT calls them alignments (since to them, it is exactly that) but NJTA refers to them as spurs (since they both feature separate termini of the ticket system). Though, you probably know that.

Sorry, but Alps is right . . . the Authority's design manuals and drawings refer to them as Alignments.  The term Spur, I think, is used more on traffic reports and by the general public.

[famartin]

If I'm not mistaken, this is also a subtle change from how the area used to be signed...the Western Spur has always been signed as I-95 for traffic coming from the GWB, but for traffic coming from I-80 & US 46 I thought the Eastern Spur was signed as I-95 (and the older signage closer to the split, which still exists as of that streetview, seems to confirm that).

The intent of the older signage was to ultimately balance traffic between alignments (Easterly and Westerly Alignments, not Spurs).

We're using the NJTA terminology, not NJDOT. NJDOT calls them alignments (since to them, it is exactly that) but NJTA refers to them as spurs (since they both feature separate termini of the ticket system). Though, you probably know that.

Sorry, but Alps is right . . . the Authority's design manuals and drawings refer to them as Alignments.  The term Spur, I think, is used more on traffic reports and by the general public.

Interesting, but the NJTA definitely uses  "SPUR" in press releases...
https://www.njta.com/newsroom/eastern-spur-weekend-closure

[storm2k]

If I'm not mistaken, this is also a subtle change from how the area used to be signed...the Western Spur has always been signed as I-95 for traffic coming from the GWB, but for traffic coming from I-80 & US 46 I thought the Eastern Spur was signed as I-95 (and the older signage closer to the split, which still exists as of that streetview, seems to confirm that).

The intent of the older signage was to ultimately balance traffic between alignments (Easterly and Westerly Alignments, not Spurs).

We're using the NJTA terminology, not NJDOT. NJDOT calls them alignments (since to them, it is exactly that) but NJTA refers to them as spurs (since they both feature separate termini of the ticket system). Though, you probably know that.

Sorry, but Alps is right . . . the Authority's design manuals and drawings refer to them as Alignments.  The term Spur, I think, is used more on traffic reports and by the general public.

Interesting, but the NJTA definitely uses  "SPUR" in press releases...
https://www.njta.com/newsroom/eastern-spur-weekend-closure

At this point, the "spur" terminology is very ingrained in the public consciousness, thanks to decades of traffic reports and other news reports about the roadway, but officially, it very much is the Easterly and Westerly alignments. IIRC, at one time, the eastern one was considered 95 and the western one was considered 95W by the Authority.

[famartin]

If I'm not mistaken, this is also a subtle change from how the area used to be signed...the Western Spur has always been signed as I-95 for traffic coming from the GWB, but for traffic coming from I-80 & US 46 I thought the Eastern Spur was signed as I-95 (and the older signage closer to the split, which still exists as of that streetview, seems to confirm that).

The intent of the older signage was to ultimately balance traffic between alignments (Easterly and Westerly Alignments, not Spurs).

We're using the NJTA terminology, not NJDOT. NJDOT calls them alignments (since to them, it is exactly that) but NJTA refers to them as spurs (since they both feature separate termini of the ticket system). Though, you probably know that.

Sorry, but Alps is right . . . the Authority's design manuals and drawings refer to them as Alignments.  The term Spur, I think, is used more on traffic reports and by the general public.

Interesting, but the NJTA definitely uses  "SPUR" in press releases...
https://www.njta.com/newsroom/eastern-spur-weekend-closure

At this point, the "spur" terminology is very ingrained in the public consciousness, thanks to decades of traffic reports and other news reports about the roadway, but officially, it very much is the Easterly and Westerly alignments. IIRC, at one time, the eastern one was considered 95 and the western one was considered 95W by the Authority.

I'm not doubting that internally those terms are used. But they were "alignments" since the day they were both first open, since neither was a "spur" at inception or since then. Since the name "spur" has always been meaningless, for all intents and purposes, but that's what even the NJTA calls them publicly, its a little silly to quibble over it.

[fwydriver405]

Just noticed this new sign showing up on GSV...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8458195,-74.018014,3a,75y,180.4h,88.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSD739HnjKm5rp72ON4TlYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I get the point, I do... I just find it vaguely amusing that NJTA is going to pretend the Eastern Spur isn't 95 here by not even signing a route number with it.

Unfortunately I did not get any pictures of this when I was down there, but coming back from NYC to Woodbridge Twp via the Eastern Spur/Alignment on 29 Dec 2021, I saw these two signs that were also replaced as well, reflected in the latest GSV update. I don't know if the Western Spur/Alignment signs at this location were replaced as well. The I-95 North at US Route 46 exit was also replaced as well. (GSV doesn't show them as up, but they were installed on the gantry and not activated sometime at the end of December).

Warning for diverge ahead in ½ mile (0.8 km)
At car only (inner) and truck, bus, and car (outer) carriageway diverge (you can see the older sign here behind)



Are these sets of signs at the southern end of the East/West diverge, as well as the ones approaching the Interstate 80 interchange from the south (example) going to eventually replaced with more modern, electronic versions of these signs similar to what was observed at other locations recently? I also wonder what set of messages the I-80 interchange and US Route 46 displayed as well...

[jeffandnicole]

At car only (inner) and truck, bus, and car (outer) carriageway diverge (you can see the older sign here behind)

So what's interesting here...those new signs show both "Cars Only" and "Trucks, Buses (& Cars)" as white on green, similar to exit or guidance signage.  But south of Interchange 6, the "Cars Only" sign is black on white, which is regulatory, and designed to lawfully exclude trucks & buses from entering the inner roadway. https://goo.gl/maps/joE6tr1ENNzKJtNa6  In fact, a very quick sample seems to show this is the only location where black on white signage was used when only cars can use the inner roadway.

Are these sets of signs at the southern end of the East/West diverge, as well as the ones approaching the Interstate 80 interchange from the south (example) going to eventually replaced with more modern, electronic versions of these signs similar to what was observed at other locations recently? I also wonder what set of messages the I-80 interchange and US Route 46 displayed as well...

Not for nothing, but you can literally see the construction going on for the new signage at these locations.

[Alps]

If I'm not mistaken, this is also a subtle change from how the area used to be signed...the Western Spur has always been signed as I-95 for traffic coming from the GWB, but for traffic coming from I-80 & US 46 I thought the Eastern Spur was signed as I-95 (and the older signage closer to the split, which still exists as of that streetview, seems to confirm that).

The intent of the older signage was to ultimately balance traffic between alignments (Easterly and Westerly Alignments, not Spurs).

We're using the NJTA terminology, not NJDOT. NJDOT calls them alignments (since to them, it is exactly that) but NJTA refers to them as spurs (since they both feature separate termini of the ticket system). Though, you probably know that.

Sorry, but Alps is right . . . the Authority's design manuals and drawings refer to them as Alignments.  The term Spur, I think, is used more on traffic reports and by the general public.

Interesting, but the NJTA definitely uses  "SPUR" in press releases...
https://www.njta.com/newsroom/eastern-spur-weekend-closure

At this point, the "spur" terminology is very ingrained in the public consciousness, thanks to decades of traffic reports and other news reports about the roadway, but officially, it very much is the Easterly and Westerly alignments. IIRC, at one time, the eastern one was considered 95 and the western one was considered 95W by the Authority.

I'm not doubting that internally those terms are used. But they were "alignments" since the day they were both first open, since neither was a "spur" at inception or since then. Since the name "spur" has always been meaningless, for all intents and purposes, but that's what even the NJTA calls them publicly, its a little silly to quibble over it.

I'm amused that you're disputing someone who directly works with the NJTA and can firsthand vouch for the correct names. But you do you.

[famartin]

If I'm not mistaken, this is also a subtle change from how the area used to be signed...the Western Spur has always been signed as I-95 for traffic coming from the GWB, but for traffic coming from I-80 & US 46 I thought the Eastern Spur was signed as I-95 (and the older signage closer to the split, which still exists as of that streetview, seems to confirm that).

The intent of the older signage was to ultimately balance traffic between alignments (Easterly and Westerly Alignments, not Spurs).

We're using the NJTA terminology, not NJDOT. NJDOT calls them alignments (since to them, it is exactly that) but NJTA refers to them as spurs (since they both feature separate termini of the ticket system). Though, you probably know that.

Sorry, but Alps is right . . . the Authority's design manuals and drawings refer to them as Alignments.  The term Spur, I think, is used more on traffic reports and by the general public.

Interesting, but the NJTA definitely uses  "SPUR" in press releases...
https://www.njta.com/newsroom/eastern-spur-weekend-closure

At this point, the "spur" terminology is very ingrained in the public consciousness, thanks to decades of traffic reports and other news reports about the roadway, but officially, it very much is the Easterly and Westerly alignments. IIRC, at one time, the eastern one was considered 95 and the western one was considered 95W by the Authority.

I'm not doubting that internally those terms are used. But they were "alignments" since the day they were both first open, since neither was a "spur" at inception or since then. Since the name "spur" has always been meaningless, for all intents and purposes, but that's what even the NJTA calls them publicly, its a little silly to quibble over it.

I'm amused that you're disputing someone who directly works with the NJTA and can firsthand vouch for the correct names. But you do you.

That is totally not at all what I said. I acknowledged that NJTA may indeed call them alignments internally.  However, as far as publicly, the press releases speak for themselves.

[Scott5114]

Not every road agency has H.B. Elkins as their public relations officer. I would imagine most of the PR people care little about official terminology and probably don't even talk to the people that would know it.

[jeffandnicole]

Not every road agency has H.B. Elkins as their public relations officer. I would imagine most of the PR people care little about official terminology and probably don't even talk to the people that would know it.

There are certain officials that will use the absolute correct terminology, and others that use people-speak.  Some NJTA press releases will inform us of road work on the "inner roadway", "Cars only roadway", or use both.  Then there's ones with NJDOT that will inform us there's construction on I-76 North & South. 

The important thing to know...most people will never read them.  But the agency did its due diligence.

[famartin]

Not every road agency has H.B. Elkins as their public relations officer. I would imagine most of the PR people care little about official terminology and probably don't even talk to the people that would know it.

There are certain officials that will use the absolute correct terminology, and others that use people-speak.  Some NJTA press releases will inform us of road work on the "inner roadway", "Cars only roadway", or use both.  Then there's ones with NJDOT that will inform us there's construction on I-76 North & South. 

The important thing to know...most people will never read them.  But the agency did its due diligence.

While signed East-west, I-76 is mileposted, essentially, north-south (MP 0 is at 295, not the PA line). The SLD lists it north-south, too. It's not too unlike truck 1/9, which is signed north-south, but the SLD and in fact, the mileposts, depict an east-west route.

[jeffandnicole]

Not every road agency has H.B. Elkins as their public relations officer. I would imagine most of the PR people care little about official terminology and probably don't even talk to the people that would know it.

There are certain officials that will use the absolute correct terminology, and others that use people-speak.  Some NJTA press releases will inform us of road work on the "inner roadway", "Cars only roadway", or use both.  Then there's ones with NJDOT that will inform us there's construction on I-76 North & South. 

The important thing to know...most people will never read them.  But the agency did its due diligence.

While signed East-west, I-76 is mileposted, essentially, north-south (MP 0 is at 295, not the PA line). The SLD lists it north-south, too. It's not too unlike truck 1/9, which is signed north-south, but the SLD and in fact, the mileposts, depict an east-west route.

The SLD, while a pretty cool thing to look at, is for amusement only and shouldn't be relied on as anything official.

[ixnay]

Not every road agency has H.B. Elkins as their public relations officer. I would imagine most of the PR people care little about official terminology and probably don't even talk to the people that would know it.

There are certain officials that will use the absolute correct terminology, and others that use people-speak.  Some NJTA press releases will inform us of road work on the "inner roadway", "Cars only roadway", or use both.  Then there's ones with NJDOT that will inform us there's construction on I-76 North & South. 

The important thing to know...most people will never read them.  But the agency did its due diligence.

While signed East-west, I-76 is mileposted, essentially, north-south (MP 0 is at 295, not the PA line). The SLD lists it north-south, too. It's not too unlike truck 1/9, which is signed north-south, but the SLD and in fact, the mileposts, depict an east-west route.

The SLD, while a pretty cool thing to look at, is for amusement only and shouldn't be relied on as anything official.

"SLD?" 

[fwydriver405]

Not every road agency has H.B. Elkins as their public relations officer. I would imagine most of the PR people care little about official terminology and probably don't even talk to the people that would know it.

There are certain officials that will use the absolute correct terminology, and others that use people-speak.  Some NJTA press releases will inform us of road work on the "inner roadway", "Cars only roadway", or use both.  Then there's ones with NJDOT that will inform us there's construction on I-76 North & South. 

The important thing to know...most people will never read them.  But the agency did its due diligence.

While signed East-west, I-76 is mileposted, essentially, north-south (MP 0 is at 295, not the PA line). The SLD lists it north-south, too. It's not too unlike truck 1/9, which is signed north-south, but the SLD and in fact, the mileposts, depict an east-west route.

The SLD, while a pretty cool thing to look at, is for amusement only and shouldn't be relied on as anything official.

"SLD?" 

Maybe NJDOT's Straight Line Diagrams?
https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/sldiag/

[Rothman]

Not every road agency has H.B. Elkins as their public relations officer. I would imagine most of the PR people care little about official terminology and probably don't even talk to the people that would know it.

*starts to mutter about his office's PR guy but catches himself*