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Palm Springs area roads

Started by skluth, March 09, 2019, 05:58:42 PM

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skluth

Quote from: Desert Man on October 01, 2019, 01:25:12 PM
A new bridge on Vista Chino may be the last major road to have an all-weather bridge in the Coachella Valley. In the 1970s-80s, there were 5 of them: Ramon, Date Palm, Bob Hope, Washington and Indio Blvd., plus 3 more in Monroe, Jackson and Golf Center to connect with I-10. The Indian Canyon and Gene Autry roads crosses 3 miles of the Whitewater river flood area.

Vista Chino will be the next bridge across the Whitewater Wash, expected to open in 2023. There are currently no plans to build bridges on Gene Autry and Indian Canyon, both of which could really use one.

Avenue 44 in Indio just reopened this week.
There are plans to build an Avenue 44 bridge soon, but it's Indio so it may take longer than they plan.

Cathedral City also plans a bridge over the wash on Cathedral Canyon Drive which is still on schedule and should open next year. No idea if there are plans for Frank Sinatra Drive.


Max Rockatansky

Quote from: skluth on October 02, 2019, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 01, 2019, 08:51:30 AM
Quote from: skluth on October 01, 2019, 03:34:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 30, 2019, 03:21:09 PM
Speaking of Whitewater, how come traffic can no longer cross the 1923 Whitewater Bridge?  There is a security guard posted there now telling people the road is closed to traffic but there is zero signage indicating it is closed nor a private road.  I recall years ago people would actually do stupid things like try to get in the River there or access the windmill farms uphill. 

Edit:  Seems the BLM ordered the closure of public access to Whitewater Canyon.  Now some of the things the guy was saying at the bridge make more sense:

https://www.wildlandsconservancy.org/preserve_whitewater.html

At minimum I was able to get a couple photos of the bridge and early concrete alignment of US 60/70/99.

People were swimming in the water illegally. Two people died last year when a kid got swept away in the water and his father tried to save him. That wasn't enough to deter others from going into the river. After repeated warnings, they finally had to close it off.

So the BLM closed access off for the entire river and shuttered a Wildlands Conservatory Preserve because of that?  Wouldn't it have easier just to put a gate and fence at the bridge and let the Wildlands Conservancy manage their own Preserve?  That seems kind of excessive considering some of the stuff people do out in Joshua Tree National Park that ended up getting them killed there.  As far as I know the only thing that can be accessed on the opposite side of the Whitewater Bridge is the windmill farm anyways.  The Wildlands Conservancy seems to do a pretty good job at managing wilderness areas, or at least I thought so with San Emigdio Canyon in the Wind Wolves Preserve.

Two separate closures. The Whitewater Preserve and road leading to it suffered a lot of damage from the Valentine's Day storm like many other local roads. The road is not a high priority as it only has a couple homes on it besides Preserve buildings and those homes are fairly close to the old main road. There's a little more info on the site, but that's basically the story. 

Sorry for the confusion.

I guess the question is then, was there structural damage to the 1923 Whitewater Bridge?  That would certainly explain why the BLM doesn't want a lot of vehicles on it considering it is a main access roads to it the windmill farm.  The last bridge report I read on the structure it actually was pretty sound, it would be a shame to see it replaced by some bland modern cookie cutter span.

skluth

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm assuming by the 1923 bridge you are talking about the old main highway bridge east of the rock seller. That's the area closed off because of idiots swimming in the water. I doubt there is much, if any, damage to the bridge. I went down there about a month after the big February storm and was able to cross it with no trouble. They started restricting access when the weather warmed up and people would go to the river to cool off. I don't know how long they'll continue to restrict access; it will probably be restricted during warmer days even after the preserve reopens. The county doesn't want any more people dying.

The bridge is only a secondary access for the windmills. The primary access roads are off CA 62 behind all the crazies who live just west of the highway. The road east of the bridge could be closed with little problem.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: skluth on October 03, 2019, 02:07:27 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm assuming by the 1923 bridge you are talking about the old main highway bridge east of the rock seller. That's the area closed off because of idiots swimming in the water. I doubt there is much, if any, damage to the bridge. I went down there about a month after the big February storm and was able to cross it with no trouble. They started restricting access when the weather warmed up and people would go to the river to cool off. I don't know how long they'll continue to restrict access; it will probably be restricted during warmer days even after the preserve reopens. The county doesn't want any more people dying.

The bridge is only a secondary access for the windmills. The primary access roads are off CA 62 behind all the crazies who live just west of the highway. The road east of the bridge could be closed with little problem.

Yes, the old US 60/70/99 bridge.  I'm starting to think the security guy might have misunderstood me or vice versa.  He was mostly on about no parking (which there are plenty of signs) and not going in the River.  Either way I got the photos I wanted and moved on.  Kind of surprising the county even wants to keep the bridge open if they are so worried about people trying to test the theory of Darwinism in the River. 

skluth

Escorts will no longer be needed between Hemet and Mountain Center on CA 74 as of yesterday. There will still be some delays with flagging around work zones. No word on when work is expected to be complete.

Unfortunately, Caltrans has changed their announced reopening of CA 243 next month and instead it remains closed until further notice.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: skluth on October 04, 2019, 04:12:46 PM
Escorts will no longer be needed between Hemet and Mountain Center on CA 74 as of yesterday. There will still be some delays with flagging around work zones. No word on when work is expected to be complete.

Unfortunately, Caltrans has changed their announced reopening of CA 243 next month and instead it remains closed until further notice.

They actually had 243 closed to all but local traffic south of Banning.  The Quickmap had it open about five miles uphill, suffice to say I was disappointed I couldn't drive uphill a little. 

Max Rockatansky

Found an article in the July/August 1953 Department of Public Works Guide which features an article called "US 99 Progress" which has the recently replaced 1923 Whitewater Bridge pictured.

https://archive.org/details/californiahighwa195455calirich/page/n259

Max Rockatansky

Finished the Gribblenation Blog Post on the 1923 Whitewater Bridge.

This past month I visited the 1923 Whitewater Bridge northwest of Palm Springs.  The 1923 Whitewater Bridge was part of Southern National Highway and Atlantic & Pacific Highway before the US Route era.  By 1926 the initial path of US 99 was aligned over the 1923 Whitewater Bridge which was joined by US 60 in 1932 followed by US 70 in 1934.  The 1923 Whitewater Bridge was replaced by a new expressway alignment to the south in 1954 which essentially the present path of I-10.  1923 Whitewater Bridge is a tee beam structure and there is concrete on the western approach span which appears to be of the era that would have been used by US 99/60/70.  In the past traffic could cross the 1923 Whitewater Bridge but it appears the structure is presently closed due to a death in the White Water River earlier this year.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/10/former-us-routes-607099-on-1923.html

skluth

Out of nowhere, Caltrans announced they will be opening up CA 243 between Banning and Idyllwild today. It was announced Tuesday evening, but I couldn't find a local mention of it so I pulled this from an LA station. Lots of folks are going to be happy about this. It's the last major route reopened that was closed by the February 14 storm that caused all sorts of damage both around Mt San Jacinto and in the Coachella Valley.

No idea why KTLA calls CA 74 a freeway in this article. It's not even limited access for a short stretch of an interchange.

skluth

Palm Springs is converting Indian Canyon Road to two-way traffic this week. They have been working on this for a couple months now and the final restriping the street and reconfiguring the stop lights will happen during the night over the next few days.

I normally wouldn't include a local road here, but Indian Canyon is one of the two main N-S streets through downtown. Up until this week, Palm Canyon has been southbound and Indian Canyon northbound. Indian Canyon is literally the only northbound through street through Palm Springs to I-10 from the V/Ace/Saguaro Hotel district west of Sunrise (I believe it's the original NB CA 111 routing), so it's usually busy. Palm Canyon will continue to be one-way SB, but Indian Canyon will be two-way by Friday. Be alert for these changes if you are familiar with driving through the Western Coachella Valley.

ClassicHasClass

I guess they want it as a bypass of the downtown? Get some of the traffic off?

skluth

Quote from: ClassicHasClass on January 06, 2020, 01:53:30 PM
I guess they want it as a bypass of the downtown? Get some of the traffic off?

A big problem is the frequent closing of Palm Canyon for events, leaving only a NB route through the area. Southbound traffic must use either Bellardo or Calle Encilla which have stop signs at most intersections. Bellardo has a bunch of old hotels and new boutique hotels with a lot of guests who walk to downtown, so it's a nightmare every Thursday evening. There are several parades down Palm Canyon (Veteran's, Pride) and it's closed every Thursday evening for Village Fest. It's not so much a bypass of downtown as making sure traffic keeps moving.

Indian Canyon was one-way, four-lanes plus parking on each side, so it's not like there wasn't room to convert it. I think most locals like the idea. I'm not sure how bad traffic might get on Indian Canyon after this conversion, but traffic is often light except during events and some drivers drive 40-50 down it when there are a lot of pedestrians in the area. Downtown already crosses Indian Canyon at Arenas and Tahquitz Canyon, and with the Agua Caliente Tribe planning a new arena next to the casino there will be even more pedestrian traffic crossing Indian Canyon so traffic does need to slow down.

Anyone bypassing downtown should really use Sunrise, Farrell, or the current CA 111 along Gene Autry. If anything, slower travel times on Indian Canyon should force even more through traffic away from downtown entirely.

Max Rockatansky

Personally I've always found Indian Canyon to be way under capacity to really need to be a one way road anyways.  It definitely will help aid trying to get around downtown and all those speed tables on Palm Canyon. 

sparker

Reconfiguring both Palm and indian Canyons for two-way traffic should certainly help in the navigation of downtown Palm Springs; the former CA 111 couplet was instituted in the late '60's as a way to accommodate both local and through traffic on the state highway -- something that hasn't been needed since the CA 111 reroute (in reality made moot by the relinquishments through La Quinta and neighboring towns) by the airport.  At this point, the city may as well restore the pre-1968 configuration; at least that should go a long way to obviating the need to circle multiple blocks looking for parking spaces!

skluth

Quote from: sparker on January 07, 2020, 06:33:58 PM
Reconfiguring both Palm and indian Canyons for two-way traffic should certainly help in the navigation of downtown Palm Springs; the former CA 111 couplet was instituted in the late '60's as a way to accommodate both local and through traffic on the state highway -- something that hasn't been needed since the CA 111 reroute (in reality made moot by the relinquishments through La Quinta and neighboring towns) by the airport.  At this point, the city may as well restore the pre-1968 configuration; at least that should go a long way to obviating the need to circle multiple blocks looking for parking spaces!

Only Indian Canyon will be two-way. Palm Canyon will remain one-way.

sparker

Quote from: skluth on January 09, 2020, 09:14:09 AM
Quote from: sparker on January 07, 2020, 06:33:58 PM
Reconfiguring both Palm and indian Canyons for two-way traffic should certainly help in the navigation of downtown Palm Springs; the former CA 111 couplet was instituted in the late '60's as a way to accommodate both local and through traffic on the state highway -- something that hasn't been needed since the CA 111 reroute (in reality made moot by the relinquishments through La Quinta and neighboring towns) by the airport.  At this point, the city may as well restore the pre-1968 configuration; at least that should go a long way to obviating the need to circle multiple blocks looking for parking spaces!

Only Indian Canyon will be two-way. Palm Canyon will remain one-way.

Now that seems pointless; if the idea is to restore maximum flexibility in access to downtown businesses -- and for all intents & purposes through traffic now is avoiding downtown -- retaining one street as a single-direction limits block-by-block movement.  I've seen situations where a main commercial street was two way, and flanked by a one way couplet (pre-freeway, 4th Street in Sacramento was like that; 5th was one-way NB and 3rd one-way SB;both hosted old SSR 16 and SSR 24).  Something like that would be considerably more workable than a single unidirectional thoroughfare.

TheStranger

Quote from: sparker on January 09, 2020, 04:17:56 PM
I've seen situations where a main commercial street was two way, and flanked by a one way couplet (pre-freeway, 4th Street in Sacramento was like that; 5th was one-way NB and 3rd one-way SB;both hosted old SSR 16 and SSR 24).  Something like that would be considerably more workable than a single unidirectional thoroughfare.

The example that comes to mind here from San Francisco is where US 101 runs on Van Ness Avenue; Franklin Street is the northbound parallel one-way street and Gough serves that purpose southbound.  (Both also directly linked to the 1956-1989 northern segment of the Central Freeway, while Van Ness only directly intersects the Central Freeway at the border of the Mission and South Of Market districts)  One block away, Polk Street is two-way and flanked with many restaurants and businesses too, with Hyde (southbound) and Larkin (northbound) as the parallel one-way streets up to about California Street.
Chris Sampang

mrsman

#67
It seems to me that it would be best to direct thru traffic over to the 2-way Indian Canyon and leave Palm Canyon as a 2-way street that discourages thru traffic.  To the extent feasible, traffic should be minimized on PC, perhaps with the addition of bike lanes and the like.

The final block south of Ramon, of PC should probably still be one-way southbound, in order to not create conflicts at the 5-way intersection at Cam. Parocela.

EDITED TO ADD:

I did a little more internet research on this to find out that the project is now complete.  The design they chose leave PC as a 3 lane SB street, and converts IC to a 2-way street, with 2 lanes NB, 1 lane SB, and a left turn lane.  While this is not what I would have done, I can see the wisdom of this.  For all intents and purposes, especially for timing of the signals should local authorities so desire, you still have a 1-way couplet for traffic driving through.  Yes, IC is now 2-way, so you have to watch out at left turns, but unless PC is closed for a street fair, there will be very little SB traffic on it.  This configuration should help calm traffic and maintain on-street parking.

Anybody in the area should let us know their opinions, but in my mind this seems like a well thought out plan.  Hopefully, it will achieve its goals.

After this, I believe PC should be narrowed in the area to 2 lanes instead of 3, but kept one-way SB.

mrsman

Quote from: skluth on January 06, 2020, 12:43:07 PM
Palm Springs is converting Indian Canyon Road to two-way traffic this week. They have been working on this for a couple months now and the final restriping the street and reconfiguring the stop lights will happen during the night over the next few days.

I normally wouldn't include a local road here, but Indian Canyon is one of the two main N-S streets through downtown. Up until this week, Palm Canyon has been southbound and Indian Canyon northbound. Indian Canyon is literally the only northbound through street through Palm Springs to I-10 from the V/Ace/Saguaro Hotel district west of Sunrise (I believe it's the original NB CA 111 routing), so it's usually busy. Palm Canyon will continue to be one-way SB, but Indian Canyon will be two-way by Friday. Be alert for these changes if you are familiar with driving through the Western Coachella Valley.

No apologies for including local road news.  I tend to find the changes to local streets, even when I'm not familiar with them, to be even more interesting than changes to highways.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: mrsman on January 10, 2020, 12:36:18 PM
It seems to me that it would be best to direct thru traffic over to the 2-way Indian Canyon and leave Palm Canyon as a 2-way street that discourages thru traffic.  To the extent feasible, traffic should be minimized on PC, perhaps with the addition of bike lanes and the like.

The final block south of Ramon, of PC should probably still be one-way southbound, in order to not create conflicts at the 5-way intersection at Cam. Parocela.

I'd argue that traffic on Palm Canyon is already discouraged with all the currently present pedestrian features.  Bottlenecking traffic further by way of reducing lanes would enhance what is already present on Palm Canyon.

skluth

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 10, 2020, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: mrsman on January 10, 2020, 12:36:18 PM
It seems to me that it would be best to direct thru traffic over to the 2-way Indian Canyon and leave Palm Canyon as a 2-way street that discourages thru traffic.  To the extent feasible, traffic should be minimized on PC, perhaps with the addition of bike lanes and the like.

The final block south of Ramon, of PC should probably still be one-way southbound, in order to not create conflicts at the 5-way intersection at Cam. Parocela.

I'd argue that traffic on Palm Canyon is already discouraged with all the currently present pedestrian features.  Bottlenecking traffic further by way of reducing lanes would enhance what is already present on Palm Canyon.

I agree. Palm Canyon is mostly stop-and-go as it is. I and many other locals often use Bellardo, the street west of PC, instead. You still hit all the stops, but at least it's just four way stops and not another light with a mass of pedestrians. PC is fine until Tahquitz Canyon, but it's usually quicker (and less aggravating) to jog a block over and take Bellardo until you get south of Tahquitz Creek itself.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: skluth on January 12, 2020, 08:53:23 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 10, 2020, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: mrsman on January 10, 2020, 12:36:18 PM
It seems to me that it would be best to direct thru traffic over to the 2-way Indian Canyon and leave Palm Canyon as a 2-way street that discourages thru traffic.  To the extent feasible, traffic should be minimized on PC, perhaps with the addition of bike lanes and the like.

The final block south of Ramon, of PC should probably still be one-way southbound, in order to not create conflicts at the 5-way intersection at Cam. Parocela.

I'd argue that traffic on Palm Canyon is already discouraged with all the currently present pedestrian features.  Bottlenecking traffic further by way of reducing lanes would enhance what is already present on Palm Canyon.

I agree. Palm Canyon is mostly stop-and-go as it is. I and many other locals often use Bellardo, the street west of PC, instead. You still hit all the stops, but at least it's just four way stops and not another light with a mass of pedestrians. PC is fine until Tahquitz Canyon, but it's usually quicker (and less aggravating) to jog a block over and take Bellardo until you get south of Tahquitz Creek itself.

I seem to recall using Calle Encilla quite a bit for the same purpose on business trips.  My hotel was located near Ramon Road and Indian Canyon which made access and egress kind of difficult if I stuck to then main roadways.  When I went to go eat in downtown I usually would just walk to my destination rather than trying to find parking on a southward backtrack on Palm Canyon.  With a two way configuration one would have an easier time trying to get parking facilities (of getting a second shot at them) in places like La Plaza. 

skluth

Oh joy. I can't find any details, but it looks like a series of annoying little projects through the San Gorgonio Pass on I-10 is planned for the next 2-3 years. Because traffic through the pass doesn't suck enough already.

Text from article. Source: z1077fm.com, but it was also mentioned on KESQ TV in Palm Springs this morning.

Quote
CALTRANS BEGINS I-10 "TUNE-UP"  CONSTRUCTION PROJECT MONDAY

Commuters who travel on Interstate 10 between Banning and Highway 111 in Palm Springs, brace yourselves for construction projects for the next two to three years. CalTrans has announced that preliminary work on the project, called the I-10 Tune-Up, will start Monday night, February 3. The paving operation will begin on eastbound I-10 and will include repaving lanes number 3 and 4, slab replacement in lanes number 1 and 2, upgrading various on- and off-ramps to make them ADA compliant, and upgrading the guardrail systems.

In addition, from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. on Tuesday and Wednesday, February 4-5, eastbound I-10 will experience lane and ramp closures from Fields Road to Main Street in Cabazon. Work will be done on the right shoulder, the number 4 lane, and the eastbound I-10 on-ramp from Morongo Trail.

To stay on top of roadwork, go to Caltrans District 8 and sign up for commuter alerts. To assist in planning your commute, view live traffic conditions and planned lane closures using the QuickMap link below.

http://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/

skluth

More on the previous post. The KESQ-3 Palm Springs now has an article on the I-10 project through the pass. Article here. Caltrans website shows the project timeline, but doesn't have the details contained in the news article.

Quote
Caltrans anounces $210 million Interstate 10 improvement project

Traffic was flowing smoothly on the 10 freeway Wednesday morning.

But, slow downs and possibly major backups could be happening over the next two to three years because of the $210 million "I-10 Tune Up" project announced at the CHP office in Beaumont.

"With the reduced speed limit and people paying attention and not driving distracted, and following the law we should be fine," said Caltrans spokesperson Terri Kasinga.

The improvements for the I-10 will cover a span of the highway running from the 60 freeway eastward to Highway 111.

A timeline shows work will be completed in three stages, and could take as long as two to three years.

The work on both bides will focus on medians, repaving the number three and four lanes, and "slab replacement" in lanes one and two.

"Will truck traffic and people driving at night see the construction work, yes and they might see some minor delays," said Kasinga.

Caltrans says most of the work will be completed during night-time hours with work stopping for weekends and holidays, and during major events like Coachella and the Stagecoach Country Music Festival.

Some initial stages of the work are already underway and more signifcant stages of the project are set to begin in March.

Caltrans and the CHP both have real concerns about the project on the 10.

If a major incident such as a car accident, wildfire or law enforcement situation occur, the traffic backup could turn into a nightmare scenario.

That's because of limited frontage roads in some areas along the ten where the work is being performed.

In some stretches of the freeway lanes will be reduced from 12 feet wide to eleven feet in width.

During some nighttime hours traffic will be reduced to one lane in each direction.

"There are parts of the 10 that there is no diversion, There is no side streets and there are no alternate routes and so our position is that we are going to clear the highway as fast as possible whether it be a minor traffic collision or a major incident," said CHP Commander Mike Alvarez.

The speed limit in the construction areas will be reduced to 60 miles an hour and Commander Alvarez says his officers will be peforming "aggressive enforcement".

Fines in the construction zone are also doubled.

Caltrans has set up a website and is offering a hot line for updated information on the project, including information on closures and traffic advisories.

Link: i10TuneUp.com

Hotline: (833) i10-TUNE (410)-8863

skluth

I know there's not much travel going on right now. But Palm Springs has completely closed a couple blocks of Palm Canyon Drive through downtown for the rest of the year for restaurants to have outdoor dining, as indoor dining is not allowed for the time being. The closure has been in effect for a couple weeks, but it may actually be useful now that it's no longer 120° at sunset. Map of the affected area.

There had been a closure every Thursday evening for Villagefest from Amado to Ramon until March. No word on when that might return.



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