"STATE LINE" as a "Control City"

[webny99]

William → Wm
Charles → Chas
Dorothy → Dy
Francis → Fs
James → Jas
John → Jn
Mary → My
Robert → Robt

Eek. My eyes are bleeding.

[NWI_Irish96]

Why, on mileage signs, do some states show mileage to a city in another state, acknowledge the name of the state, choose to abbreviate it, but not use the standard postal abbreviation? 

"CA" is not an abbreviation - it is a postal code.

This is the answer, plain and simple.

In a few cases, the postal code is a true abbreviation:
– VA / Va.
– NM / N. M.

But, in most cases, nobody would naturally abbreviate a word like that:
– Who would naturally abbreviate "Mississippi" as "Ms."?
– Who would naturally abbreviate "Arizona" as "Az."?

Adding to this, some of the postal codes (and traditional abbreviations, even!) don't make a whole lot of sense. I never naturally abbreviate anything with the first and last letter, for instance. I know Virginia is VA (or Va.) because I've seen it a million times, but absent any knowledge, I'd be apt to abbreviate it as "Virg.", "Vir.", VI, or VR. Likewise, Maryland would probably become "Mary.", MR, or MY.

The problem with VI is that it had been in use for Virgin Islands for a long time before the post office created their codes.

[kphoger]

William → Wm
Charles → Chas
Dorothy → Dy
Francis → Fs
James → Jas
John → Jn
Mary → My
Robert → Robt

Eek. My eyes are bleeding.

??  Huh  ??

Were you unaware of any of those?

My eldest son's name is William, and I've always abbreviated it as "Wm".

Heck, Chas/Chaz is even a common nickname for Charles.

[hotdogPi]

William → Wm
Charles → Chas
Dorothy → Dy
Francis → Fs
James → Jas
John → Jn
Mary → My
Robert → Robt

Eek. My eyes are bleeding.

??  Huh  ??

Were you unaware of any of those?

My eldest son's name is William, and I've always abbreviated it as "Wm".

Heck, Chas/Chaz is even a common nickname for Charles.

I've never heard of any of these at all.

[kphoger]

Wow!  You guys must not look at historic documents very much.
The signatures below are all from the Declaration of Independence:

Fra^s Hopkinson


Fran^s Lewis


Ja^s Smith


Rich^d Stockton


Rob^t Morris


Rob^t Treat Paine


Sam^l Adams


Sam^el Huntington


Tho^s Heyward, Jun^r


Tho^s Nelson, Jr.


Tho^s Stone


W^m Floyd


W^m Hooper


W^m Paca


W^m Whipple


W^m Williams

[Scott5114]

I am aware of those abbreviations (specifically Wm., Chas., and Robt.; the rest I would consider obscure) but they are relatively little-used in the present day. The only context I am aware of where new first-and-last letter abbreviations are used regularly is in open-source software development; "internationalization" is abbreviated to "i18n", since 18 letters are dropped from the middle of the word.

[ethanhopkin14]

Why, on mileage signs, do some states show mileage to a city in another state, acknowledge the name of the state, choose to abbreviate it, but not use the standard postal abbreviation? 

"CA" is not an abbreviation - it is a postal code.

This is the answer, plain and simple.

In a few cases, the postal code is a true abbreviation:
– VA / Va.
– NM / N. M.

But, in most cases, nobody would naturally abbreviate a word like that:
– Who would naturally abbreviate "Mississippi" as "Ms."?
– Who would naturally abbreviate "Arizona" as "Az."?

As has been mentioned, true abbreviations are more easily identified by those unfamiliar with postal codes.

Imagine being an out-of-state traveler in northern Wisconsin, not knowing whether MI referred to Michigan or Minnesota, not knowing whether MN referred to Michigan or Minnesota.

Imagine being a tourist from another country, traveling in the Northeast, not knowing whether MA referred to Maryland or Massachusetts.

It's second nature to you only because you're already very familiar with state postal codes.  But most people out there don't know the postal codes for states other than the one they live in, possibly a handful of other ones.  My co-worker is always asking me what state a given postal code refers to as she processes applications.  And the drivers who need directions the most are more likely than you to not know other states' postal codes.

Agreed, but the same argument could be said for Ark.  If you are not from here, or not aware, do you really know if that's short for Arkansas?  If it's trying to cut don on confusion, I got a great idea.  How about write Arkansas, which is short for Arkansas?

[hbelkins]

William → Wm
Charles → Chas
Dorothy → Dy
Francis → Fs
James → Jas
John → Jn
Mary → My
Robert → Robt

Eek. My eyes are bleeding.

??  Huh  ??

Were you unaware of any of those?

My eldest son's name is William, and I've always abbreviated it as "Wm".

Heck, Chas/Chaz is even a common nickname for Charles.

I've never heard of any of these at all.

William, Charles, and Robert are the only ones of those listed above with which I am familiar. Also Jos. for Joseph.

[kphoger]

But there are other abbreviations that use either the first letter or the first few letters, plus the last letter.

For example, this one.

I also imagine you guys aren't thrown off by these:
Court – Ct
Road – Rd
Mount – Mt
Port – Pt

Not to mention VMSes abbreviating "Left" and "Right" to "LT" and "RT" respectively.

[1995hoo]

William → Wm
Charles → Chas
Dorothy → Dy
Francis → Fs
James → Jas
John → Jn
Mary → My
Robert → Robt

Eek. My eyes are bleeding.

??  Huh  ??

Were you unaware of any of those?

My eldest son's name is William, and I've always abbreviated it as "Wm".

Heck, Chas/Chaz is even a common nickname for Charles.

I've never heard of any of these at all.

William, Charles, and Robert are the only ones of those listed above with which I am familiar. Also Jos. for Joseph.

I've seen Jn and Jas because in college I minored in religious studies and the New American Bible uses those abbreviations for the Gospel (and Epistles) of John and the Epistle of James. I can't say I've ever seen either of those abbreviations used anywhere else, however.

In citations to British statutes–which are cited by regnal year and monarch's name–"James" is abbreviated as "Jac." The reason for that is that "Jac." is short for "Jacobus," the Latin form of the name "James."

[US 89]

But there are other abbreviations that use either the first letter or the first few letters, plus the last letter.

For example, this one.

I also imagine you guys aren't thrown off by these:
Court – Ct
Road – Rd
Mount – Mt
Port – Pt

Not to mention VMSes abbreviating "Left" and "Right" to "LT" and "RT" respectively.

To me, "Pt" means "point".

[kphoger]

To me, "Pt" means "point".

Either way, it's the first and last letters of the word being abbreviated.

[Scott5114]

The difference with those is that they are all relatively short words where last letter happens to have stress on it/be an "important" letter in the word when pronounced. In "Virginia", the R and the G sounds are more prominent to me than the A at the end, so VR and VG would be more natural abbreviations to me than VA. 

[kkt]

I'm familiar with:
William → Wm
Charles → Chas
James → Jas
John → Jn
Robert → Robt

(Sorry for the girl's names!)

Back in the day before typewriters, carbon paper, and such, scriveners would do just about anything to save a few letters in a word that was used frequently.

And I've heard of Jno -> Jonathan, but I'm still trying to figure out how it got that way.

[roadman65]

If you're talking literally about the words "STATE LINE"  only (without mentioning the state), I don't think I've ever seen that listed as a destination on a mileage sign.

But I have seen at least a couple of examples here in Pennsylvania (here's one) where something like "NJ State Line"  was included on a post-interchange mileage sign. And most state borders are commonly included now on VMSes within 20-30 miles of a border, although I don't think that is what you were looking for.

YEah, I was looking for just "STATE LINE" with no reference to the state, but still that one is a rare bird. 
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If you're talking literally about the words "STATE LINE"  only (without mentioning the state), I don't think I've ever seen that listed as a destination on a mileage sign.

But I have seen at least a couple of examples here in Pennsylvania (here's one) where something like "NJ State Line"  was included on a post-interchange mileage sign. And most state borders are commonly included now on VMSes within 20-30 miles of a border, although I don't think that is what you were looking for.

YEah, I was looking for just "STATE LINE" with no reference to the state, but still that one is a rare bird. 

In Oklahoma on the US 59 & US 69 concurrency north of I-44 and US 60, you have State Line on the mileage sign.  However, being that both routes head into Kansas after Oklahoma, that is ambiguous as well as confusing.  Both routes do not travel the same distance and only one could be correct.  In fact when US 66 was around, it would be three locations as US 66 used to concur here as well.  It might be for defunct US 66 as that was the main road at the time, especially of Oklahoma likes to copy information on signs when replaced.

[GaryV]

And I've heard of Jno -> Jonathan, but I'm still trying to figure out how it got that way.

I've seen Jno on old docs, like census forms or wills, while doing genealogical research.  Wasn't sure what it stood for.  I thought maybe Jonas, but again not sure how that would be derived.

[1995hoo]

And I've heard of Jno -> Jonathan, but I'm still trying to figure out how it got that way.

I've seen Jno on old docs, like census forms or wills, while doing genealogical research.  Wasn't sure what it stood for.  I thought maybe Jonas, but again not sure how that would be derived.

One source I found just now said "Jno" is short for "John" and "Joh" is short for "Jonathan." This begs the question of why it would be necessary to abbreviate a four-letter word to three letters other than, perhaps, in computer databases or similar.

[kphoger]

Although I have found no actual evidence to support the theory...

It's possible that "Jhohannes" in Latin was abbreviated as Jho., then that spelling fell out of favor (leaving only "Johannes" in use), and then the ascender on the letter "h" ended up being dropped.

Thus:   Jhohannes/Jho. → Johannes/Jho. → Johannes/Jno. → John/Jno.

[hobsini2]

I actually prefer the older abbreviations to be used on signs for states. A lot of them make sense.

Ill, Ind, Mich, Minn, Neb & Wis are all recognizable.

[Scott5114]

"Ill." can be kind of problematic, if used in mixed case, since it just looks like three vertical bars at a glance and the meaning may not be readily apparent on a sign ("Rockford III? Where's Rockford, Jr.?"). All-capital IL works better on a sign.

[kphoger]

"Ill." can be kind of problematic, if used in mixed case, since it just looks like three vertical bars at a glance and the meaning may not be readily apparent on a sign ("Rockford III? Where's Rockford, Jr.?"). All-capital IL works better on a sign.

Clearview helps.
(That sign uses 'Il' as the abbreviation instead of 'Ill', though.)

[Scott5114]

It does, but it's still not as readable as if they used a capital L.

[1995hoo]

It does, but it's still not as readable as if they used a capital L.

That particular sign still looks like a Roman numeral to me in the image linked above. Not as pronounced as it would be using Gothic, true, but it still looks like it's advertising the sequel to something called Nashville.

[rarnold]

"Ill." can be kind of problematic, if used in mixed case, since it just looks like three vertical bars at a glance and the meaning may not be readily apparent on a sign ("Rockford III? Where's Rockford, Jr.?"). All-capital IL works better on a sign.

Clearview helps.
(That sign uses 'Il' as the abbreviation instead of 'Ill', though.)

If Clearview is the answer, how dumb is the question?

[kphoger]

If Clearview is the answer, how dumb is the question?

If the question is 'Why would a sign font choose to make lowercase "l" look almost identical to uppercase "I"', then...

Seriously.  Back when Clearview was just being approved by the FHWA, I was already putting little tails on my lowercase els on hitchhiking signs.  I also can't stand computer fonts that make the two look the same on screen.