Apologies if this is on the forum somewhere but I searched around and found nothing, plus Interstate Guide doesn't have this either...
In 1970, the GAO looked into the approval of several interstate segments outside the traditional scoring process.
Only I-180 was judged to fail the smell test.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=ien.35556021153556&view=1up&seq=1&skin=2021
Shows Illinois wanted to make this part of I-55 (using current I-155 plus more freeway). Nobody else was on board...
I-180 hate is justified and government approved!
Would a two-lane highway along the 180 corridor have been sufficient? Or should there have been no road at all?
(Correct me if I'm wrong about any of this) I'm pretty sure it was made for a steel mill... which closed shortly after it was built. Even if the steel mill was still open, it probably wouldn't of had enough traffic to support an interstate anyway though. There's also a big interchange with Highway 29, which was also a big waste. I think I remember hearing that they wanted to tear it down a few years ago, but it seems like that fell through. So overall just a big waste of money that could have gone to funding much more important interstates.
It's a fun road to drive though.
And it's a fascinating creature for road geeks and Illinois politics.
I had wanted to do a 180 thread so thanks. It also fits well with Illinois Freeway history.
The report mentions the first routing of 39. It went by Dixon then right through the steel plant to what is now 155 and down 121 to Decatur.
The more well known supplemental freeway system that included a 180 extension was a cover from Illinois to FHWA to avoid the above report.
Illinois tried to use it for the CKC but it would only save 10 miles off the current route.
The Peoria Chicago study found it longer than 74 55.
IDOT came up with a local justification in 2009 but all they have is the EIS on the website
Oh well it's endless gun for road geeks.
Quote from: Mapmikey on August 17, 2021, 09:14:05 PM
Shows Illinois wanted to make this part of I-55 (using current I-155 plus more freeway).
Likely also IL-6
I-180 is most interesting freeway in Illinois outside of Chicago. Total bore to drive until you find out it's strange history.
That's how the sausage gets made.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 17, 2021, 10:13:09 PM
Would a two-lane highway along the 180 corridor have been sufficient? Or should there have been no road at all?
It would have been cheaper to build it as a 4-lane divided expressway with at-grade intersections and the old IL-71 bridge across the Illinois River at Hennepin would have been due for replacement eventually, though IMO a 2-lane bridge with wide shoulders would have sufficed. There's been proposals over the years to upgrade IL-29 from IL-6 north of Peoria to I-180 to expressway standards, though nothing has come of it.
Looks like a palm or two was greased back in the day. That is rich that they were willing to realign I-55 to the area just for this steel mill.
The EIS IDOT did said IL 6 has independent utility and there was no justification to connecting to 180. But that was over a decade after they got 180 . Then months nineties there was a failed push for a Peoria Chicago road. Then they tried Illinois 29 . I think that was to appease Ray LaHood. With his fall from grace it has gone nowhere.
I wonder about the obsession with one steel plant in an era of lots of manufacturing.
I have that company's annual report from 1973. They thought the skyscraper boom was just beginning and thought their was a huge need. I wonder if the state thought this would be a location for even more steel.
Quote from: Jac_00b on August 17, 2021, 10:19:40 PM
(Correct me if I'm wrong about any of this) I'm pretty sure it was made for a steel mill... which closed shortly after it was built.
That mill opened and closed several times between the completion of I-180 and now. I think it really is only the portion east of the directional Y interchange that was 'justified' by the presence of the steel plant. The rest was a toe-hold for a freeway corridor along the Illinois River down to Peoria, as others have stated.
So when people say I-180 was built "just for the steel mill" that's imprecise.
I-180 is two different boondoggles stitched together; an indirect, redundant highway corridor for Peoria-Chicago and a big handout to a private company to get a little spur across the river.
The only positive about the over-capacity bridge is there was a need to replace the narrow, old cantilever bridge for IL 26 with something better. Of course, I-180 was way overkill, but I suppose it was part of the rationale.
I imagine in the future as the overpasses for I-180 reach the end of their life spans, the interchanges and grade separations will be torn out and the facility downgraded. They would also be justified in abandoning one of the carriageways and turn it into a two-lane highway and naturally, retiring the interstate designation. The abandoned carriageway might make an interesting bike trail under this scenario.
The report said it was for the steel mill. It was the FHWA that used a redundant road to Peoria as a fig leaf. FHWA just told IDOT that some sort of 4 lane would suffice noting it was 4 lanes to Chillicothe at the time.
This report puts everything in order.
Except why Kerner was so obsessed with the steel mill. He did end up in jail ....so...
The I-180 over the IL River is being rehabbed as we speak with a new deck. They are putting in those tall slanted barrier walls, still 4 lanes, and still with fairly narrow shoulders so that it's not really overkill and could potentially be converted to a 2-lane with wide shoulders at some point. The J&L plant was shuttered and then removed after several failed attempts, but its traffic has been somewhat replaced by the large Marquis ethanol plant just to the north.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 18, 2021, 11:45:40 AM
Quote from: Jac_00b on August 17, 2021, 10:19:40 PM
(Correct me if I'm wrong about any of this) I'm pretty sure it was made for a steel mill... which closed shortly after it was built.
That mill opened and closed several times between the completion of I-180 and now. I think it really is only the portion east of the directional Y interchange that was 'justified' by the presence of the steel plant. The rest was a toe-hold for a freeway corridor along the Illinois River down to Peoria, as others have stated.
So when people say I-180 was built "just for the steel mill" that's imprecise.
I-180 is two different boondoggles stitched together; an indirect, redundant highway corridor for Peoria-Chicago and a big handout to a private company to get a little spur across the river.
The only positive about the over-capacity bridge is there was a need to replace the narrow, old cantilever bridge for IL 26 with something better. Of course, I-180 was way overkill, but I suppose it was part of the rationale.
I imagine in the future as the overpasses for I-180 reach the end of their life spans, the interchanges and grade separations will be torn out and the facility downgraded. They would also be justified in abandoning one of the carriageways and turn it into a two-lane highway and naturally, retiring the interstate designation. The abandoned carriageway might make an interesting bike trail under this scenario.
In that scenario I-180 would probably become a rerouted IL-29, an extension of IL-71 or IL-180 if the existing IL-180 is renumbered.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 18, 2021, 12:34:28 AM
I-180 is most interesting freeway in Illinois outside of Chicago. Total bore to drive until you find out it's strange history.
How is it a bore? Very hilly scenery along with IL71.
It's not a bore. At one time during lockdown the only congestion showing in state was the bridge work Rick Powell pointed out.
For Chicago area road geeks you could saw drive to 180 to Peoria. Maybe the 24 junction because that is the road being 4 laned...maybe do it when that starts and go back 74 55 to compare time and distance yourself.
Quote from: Crash_It on August 18, 2021, 04:56:17 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 18, 2021, 12:34:28 AM
I-180 is most interesting freeway in Illinois outside of Chicago. Total bore to drive until you find out it's strange history.
How is it a bore? Very hilly scenery along with IL71.
Just having a few hills doesn't automatically make a road scenic or memorable.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2021, 05:31:50 PM
Just having a few hills doesn't automatically make a road scenic or memorable.
Agreed. A little scenic perhaps, but that's not the opposite of 'boring'.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2021, 05:31:50 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on August 18, 2021, 04:56:17 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 18, 2021, 12:34:28 AM
I-180 is most interesting freeway in Illinois outside of Chicago. Total bore to drive until you find out it’s strange history.
How is it a bore? Very hilly scenery along with IL71.
Just having a few hills doesn't automatically make a road scenic or memorable.
More than a few hills.
https://youtu.be/eyA8zXxOiis
Plus I filmed further down IL71 which will be released in a future video. Didn't film the 180 section yet but I will be sure to do so the next time I'm in that area. It is very scenic.
EDIT: here's an I180 video from another YouTuber until I can get out there
https://youtu.be/4iPWc449_68
I saw that at one point, a proposal was made to reroute I-55 through Peoria and Hennepin instead of following the then-existing US 66 corridor. I'm thinking it would've had to make an awkward turn back east just to make it to Chicago, and an I-55W split ending at I-80 would've made more sense.
Compared to the rest of central Illinois, I-180 is scenic as hell!
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 19, 2021, 11:33:28 AM
Compared to the rest of central Illinois, I-180 is scenic as hell!
For scenery, I'm partial to Route 3.
https://goo.gl/maps/qESxnxRn9rvBRH6eA
https://goo.gl/maps/cuVajgL9o48e9kAo9
https://goo.gl/maps/TNmQb5L1Nu7pwasU7
https://goo.gl/maps/Wv8A7mZx5K5VZbFR9
https://goo.gl/maps/6T2CSvQpjTWEkTsp8
https://goo.gl/maps/xtUgfxeX75pKgt8g8
https://goo.gl/maps/i2KQRhFDmKqQq1mM8
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 19, 2021, 11:33:28 AM
Compared to the rest of central Illinois, I-180 is scenic as hell!
It wouldn't be central Illinois since it runs through Bureau and Putnam Counties. Those are still considered part of Northern Illinois.
It was the Kerner curve. It's months report. It was one of the extremes he went to to get that steel mill . The report notes Illinois has made a commitment from Kerner to the company.
So many parts of Illinois Highway history converge omnibus road. Btw Hennipen is one of the few towns with a population increase in Illinois this census.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on August 18, 2021, 09:03:11 AM
Looks like a palm or two was greased back in the day. That is rich that they were willing to realign I-55 to the area just for this steel mill.
The I-55 realignment idea was to put Peoria on a direct Chicago-Springfield interstate. The I-180 being built to serve the LTV plant was just a part of the puzzle and a side benefit. After skimming the GAO report it is apparent that the I-180 spur that would serve the LTV plant and provide a future possible link between I-80 and Peoria was a compromise offered by FHWA after they quashed the idea of the Kerner curve I-55 relocation. I would note that the construction of I-180 also beat Nixon and Congress' enactment of the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) of 1969 which would have required a more transparent establishment of purpose and need for the project. I recall some of the old timer retirees from IDOT talking about the road being built before it was completely designed, in hurry-up fashion. The GAO report said that the hurry-up caused more problems and resulted in delays and expenditures, which is not surprising.
Quote from: 3467 on August 19, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Btw Hennipen is one of the few towns with a population increase in Illinois this census.
Among other things, Hennepin has a year-round indoor swimming pool that was partially funded with taxes on the LTV plant. I took my kids there several times each year when the weather turned cold.
Quote from: Crash_It on August 19, 2021, 10:01:39 AM
Plus I filmed further down IL71 which will be released in a future video. Didn't film the 180 section yet but I will be sure to do so the next time I'm in that area. It is very scenic.
That's perfectly fine if you want to see I-180 as scenic. I drove it and I think it's unremarkable at best, but that's my opinion.
Quote from: Crash_It on August 19, 2021, 10:01:39 AM
It is very scenic.
Still can't get it through your head that [scenic] beauty is in the eye of the beholder?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 19, 2021, 01:40:03 PM
I drove it and I think it's unremarkable at best, but that's my opinion.
Totally legit.
This is kind of like how, just within the past month or so, I've seen one member describe the lonely highways of southeastern Colorado as scenic, and another member describe them as "suck".
People tend to forget the political angle.
Everett Dirksen, former Speaker of the House and elected from the Illinois 16th District, which includes both Putnam and Hennepin Counties was from down the road in Pekin, Illinois.
He was later re-elected to serve as one of the 2 senators from Illinois and was the Senate Majority Whip when the highway spending bill came through.
It was said in his time as speaker, he wielded an incredible amount of power over Way & Means and that power carried over into his term as an Illinois Senator.
He helped get Dan Rostenkowski on the House Ways & Means committee in 1964, a role he maintained and became chair of. But when he was forced to resign in 1994, that was the end of power for Illinois in Congress.
As for Otto Kerner, even today many law firms find Kerner's conviction as unfair and politically motivated. Had he lived longer it would have been overturned.
Kerner had a pretty good relationship with Dirksen during the time their service overlapped.
The Department of Energy had awarded a huge contract to build what is now the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory (Fermilab) in the western suburbs of Chicago.
Kerner also began reforms of health care in Illinois. (I know personally about this) which led to Medicaid and hospital justification planning.
During the late 1960's, Illinois carried incredible levels of political weight in both the House & Senate and many projects of Federal pork therefore came its way. (you would be shocked just how much pork Illinois got in the 1960's until the oil shock in 1973 and later when Rostenkowski left.
The point is, Illinois had 4 large political chair legs holding up the immense amount of pork headed their way in the mid to late 60's. So I-180 was really just another favor.
Somewhere there is an IDOT report showing their new justification system for interstate highway building, and when they run I-180 through that system it fails miserably. (Only I-72 to Quincy is worse)
Today I-180 is the least traveled highway with an interstate name in the nation.
Great description of the political situation at the time.Ed. The Kerner curve was the original 39. on the first map of the freeway plan in 1965. There a junction of that plus 74 and US 24 at the current 155 jct. Near but not on top of Dirksens Pekin.
Dirksen, as US Senate majority leader in '67-68 during the formulation of what would become the final batch of chargeable Interstate additions, pushed hard for the original section of I-72 through his adopted home town of Decatur (and the home of one of his principal campaign contributors, ADM). Part of the corridor was the direct link up IL 47 and over IL 10 to Champaign/Urbana -- intended not only to potentially siphon off some I-74 traffic, but to serve as an "accessway" from Decatur to his U of I alma mater. If you look up "clout" in the dictionary, don't be surprised if a picture of Dirksen is next to the entry!
Quote from: 3467 on August 18, 2021, 12:23:39 PM
The report said it was for the steel mill. It was the FHWA that used a redundant road to Peoria as a fig leaf. FHWA just told IDOT that some sort of 4 lane would suffice noting it was 4 lanes to Chillicothe at the time.
This report puts everything in order.
Except why Kerner was so obsessed with the steel mill. He did end up in jail ....so...
Illinois governors (regardless of party) always seem to end up in jail :hmmm:
Oh yeah, I clearly remember all the ads during Blago's campaign, touting him as the man to finally rid Illinois state politics of corruption. We are all so hopeful...
Quote from: kphoger on August 20, 2021, 07:23:35 PM
Oh yeah, I clearly remember all the ads during Blago's campaign, touting him as the man to finally rid Illinois state politics of corruption. We are all so hopeful...
End IL Corruption? Not in this state...
Seriously, my threshold to get a statewide office vote is who will keep the wheel greased to keep the machine rolling strong, which hasn't been going good the last 10-15ish years or so
I was going to do a post in Illinois Freeway History on the fate of each of the original segments .This was not one . The other one has been discussed by Rick Powell before Illinois. It was there but it's EIS put purpose and need to connect Indiana cities. The EPA pointed out US 41 was being 4 laned.
Once again the road is bizarre but it's great to have this document tossed behind the scenes. We don't get that often.
Quote from: kphoger on August 20, 2021, 07:23:35 PM
Oh yeah, I clearly remember all the ads during Blago's campaign, touting him as the man to finally rid Illinois state politics of corruption. We are all so hopeful...
Some of use were laughing our asses off at his pronouncement as we knew who he was connected to.
Of course, corruption has a very long history in this state, going all the way back to 1818. I could bring up governors like Duncan, Matteson (for whom Matteson, IL is named), and Small. The last of these, Len Small, was acquitted by a jury for corruption, and then hired some of the jurors for jobs. Hell, Chicago's original incorporation had a vote of 12-1 and it was later found out that 2 of the voters didn't live in Chicago, and then in the same year, a slate of trustees was chosen 28-1, and Chicago didn't even have 29 people at the time!
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 20, 2021, 07:52:27 PM
End IL Corruption? Not in this state...
I believe the phrase is, "That's unpossible!".
Quote from: Brandon on August 20, 2021, 09:52:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 20, 2021, 07:23:35 PM
Oh yeah, I clearly remember all the ads during Blago's campaign, touting him as the man to finally rid Illinois state politics of corruption. We are all so hopeful...
Some of use were laughing our asses off at his pronouncement as we knew who he was connected to.
Of course, corruption has a very long history in this state, going all the way back to 1818. I could bring up governors like Duncan, Matteson (for whom Matteson, IL is named), and Small. The last of these, Len Small, was acquitted by a jury for corruption, and then hired some of the jurors for jobs. Hell, Chicago's original incorporation had a vote of 12-1 and it was later found out that 2 of the voters didn't live in Chicago, and then in the same year, a slate of trustees was chosen 28-1, and Chicago didn't even have 29 people at the time!
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 20, 2021, 07:52:27 PM
End IL Corruption? Not in this state...
I believe the phrase is, "That's unpossible!".
But hey, Michael Madigan is gone at least, right?
Yes, I-180 should have never been built. It was totally a political favor. Funny how they were so eager to build this but not build US 51 between Bloomington and Decatur to a freeway.
I drove it one time and my first thought was where in the hell am I? My second thought was when the hell does this useless Interstate end? I'm dead serious.
Quote from: skluth on August 20, 2021, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: 3467 on August 18, 2021, 12:23:39 PM
The report said it was for the steel mill. It was the FHWA that used a redundant road to Peoria as a fig leaf. FHWA just told IDOT that some sort of 4 lane would suffice noting it was 4 lanes to Chillicothe at the time.
This report puts everything in order.
Except why Kerner was so obsessed with the steel mill. He did end up in jail ....so...
Illinois governors (regardless of party) always seem to end up in jail :hmmm:
Jim Edgar and James Thompson seemed to have come out ok. (Thompson was the lead prosecutor in the Otto Kerner conviction)
While Thompson was not afraid to deal with the Chicago Political Mafia, by putting together big deals that included them, Jim Edgar was much more pragmatic.
Edgar met with his rivals privately and for the most part worked out things outside of the press. Like he got the PSU's to agree to cap their raises which allowed Illinois to maintain a rational budget policy.
180 should be changed to IL route # and turned to at grade highway, when it is time to replace it.
Also, I-172 and I-72 extension was to placate Western IL, who complain about being called "Forgotten-onia". Mean to "bring business", but is it?
How "forgotten" was the region of Forgottonia? Was this portion of Illinois really forgotten, or was this just whining on the part of this 16-county region?
Quote from: US20IL64 on September 07, 2021, 11:05:37 PM
180 should be changed to IL route # and turned to at grade highway, when it is time to replace it.
Also, I-172 and I-72 extension was to placate Western IL, who complain about being called "Forgotten-onia". Mean to "bring business", but is it?
I don't think anyone disagrees that I-180 could be decommissioned as a federal highway, but I am sure IDOT doesn't want to be on the hook for the cost of keeping up that bridge over the Illinois River.
So for all practical purposes it acts as a reliever in the event I-80 has a major problem east of Princeton. Can bypass a large amount of traffic over to I-39.
As for western Illinois and its "forgotten" status, that can be put to rest somewhat. With I-72/US36 now providing easy access to markets both east and west of Quincy/Hannibal, their growth is really in their own hands now. NAFTA did more damage to Quincy than any interstate can undo honestly as it lost a lot of its manufacturing to Mexico.
The CEO of Titan International in Quincy makes the most political noise (and contributions) and makes sure Springfield doesn't forget them.
As for why they are "forgotten" is mostly the result of geography and history.
Geography demanded the settlement of this area be at St Louis where the Mississippi/Missouri and Illinois all converge. Later the National Road (if it had stayed a straight east-west road) would have crossed at Quincy, but diverted southwest to reach St Louis.
The other ended being farther north at Rock Island. It was easier to cross the Mississippi at Rock Island. As Chicago grew, so did the desire of railroads to cross over at Rock Island. So the Quad Cities came to be.
I-72 and I-172 don't bother me as much as I-180 does. That part of the state was losing population and economic vitality, Quincy alone lost 12% of its population after I-72 was finished, most of that due to lost industry post NAFTA.
Here is more info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgottonia
"Forgottonia represented a protest against inequalities in state and federal funding of infrastructure (e.g. transportation), communications and economic development in the region after World War II."
It's the Quincy newspaper owner is one of the biggest . He sold his TV stations for 900 milion recently But it puts them in with DOT foods as the two richest downstate families..
Also a lot of work has been done on 67. The section in North Warren County is going from worst to best 2 lane. Really 34 feet of pavement .Plus gravel and turf shoulder .
34 and 24 are getting 4 lane section s too.
This newspaper report (carried by the AP) in 1970 describes the GAO findings: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/21731160/interstate-180-illinois/
I-705 in Tacoma is mentioned as being deferred in favor of funding I-180, which is funny because both are useless for different reasons.
I asked a retired highway engineer who is not from Illinois on the existence of I-180.
While he was aware of the circumstances of its creation, he said it will probably never get struck from the federal record because it crosses over a federal waterway.
It's very hard to get federally funded highways over federal waterways struck from the record regardless of their utility.
He recited a litany of waterways in the US that are still on the federal record and therefore subject to federal rules and designations. He then told me that many are worthless and haven't been used for navigation in ages, but the rules are there.
Something I had never thought of.
Quote from: edwaleni on September 18, 2021, 10:45:15 PM
I asked a retired highway engineer who is not from Illinois on the existence of I-180.
While he was aware of the circumstances of its creation, he said it will probably never get struck from the federal record because it crosses over a federal waterway.
It's very hard to get federally funded highways over federal waterways struck from the record regardless of their utility.
He recited a litany of waterways in the US that are still on the federal record and therefore subject to federal rules and designations. He then told me that many are worthless and haven't been used for navigation in ages, but the rules are there.
Something I had never thought of.
That's really interesting, and likely why none of the state and US highways running through Green Bay have been moved to the freeways bypassing the cities since the Fox River is a federal waterway up to the dam in De Pere.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 19, 2021, 10:27:42 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on September 18, 2021, 10:45:15 PM
I asked a retired highway engineer who is not from Illinois on the existence of I-180.
While he was aware of the circumstances of its creation, he said it will probably never get struck from the federal record because it crosses over a federal waterway.
It's very hard to get federally funded highways over federal waterways struck from the record regardless of their utility.
He recited a litany of waterways in the US that are still on the federal record and therefore subject to federal rules and designations. He then told me that many are worthless and haven't been used for navigation in ages, but the rules are there.
Something I had never thought of.
That's really interesting, and likely why none of the state and US highways running through Green Bay have been moved to the freeways bypassing the cities since the Fox River is a federal waterway up to the dam in De Pere.
Do the locks even operate above Des Pere? There are drawbridges all the way to OshKosh until you reach the Tribal Heritage Bridge (I-41). And that definitely wasn't built to Federal standards for a waterway.
Quote from: edwaleni on September 19, 2021, 10:18:26 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 19, 2021, 10:27:42 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on September 18, 2021, 10:45:15 PM
I asked a retired highway engineer who is not from Illinois on the existence of I-180.
While he was aware of the circumstances of its creation, he said it will probably never get struck from the federal record because it crosses over a federal waterway.
It's very hard to get federally funded highways over federal waterways struck from the record regardless of their utility.
He recited a litany of waterways in the US that are still on the federal record and therefore subject to federal rules and designations. He then told me that many are worthless and haven't been used for navigation in ages, but the rules are there.
Something I had never thought of.
That's really interesting, and likely why none of the state and US highways running through Green Bay have been moved to the freeways bypassing the cities since the Fox River is a federal waterway up to the dam in De Pere.
Do the locks even operate above Des Pere? There are drawbridges all the way to OshKosh until you reach the Tribal Heritage Bridge (I-41). And that definitely wasn't built to Federal standards for a waterway.
You can get recreational boats through the locks at De Pere, but a federal waterway is considered to be more than that. Basically if it is a significant port, which would include the Port of Green Bay in the Fox River, it is a federal waterway.
Quote from: edwaleni on September 19, 2021, 10:18:26 PM
Do the locks even operate above De Pere? There are drawbridges all the way to OshKosh until you reach the Tribal Heritage Bridge (I-41). And that definitely wasn't built to Federal standards for a waterway.
One of those lock sets between De Pere and Kaukauna is permanently closed to try and restrict the movement of invasive species from the Great Lakes deeper into the Fox River system. Sea lampreys in particular. I forget which lock it is, though.
Because I-180 is not part of the legacy I-network (eligible for 90% matching funds for maintenance), it is only eligible for 80% matching funds under most of the fed formulas, same as if it were a state or US highway. For all practical purposes, it is not going to cost the feds or the state any more or less $ if the bridge remains an interstate or gets decommissioned as an interstate. It can still be a federal aid route (as are most IL state routes) even if it's not an interstate. As I said before, it's a fairly narrow bridge for a 4 -lane and it is now freshly reconstructed, so it doesn't need any serious work for the next few decades.
Lane removal on either side of the bridge could save money in the long run but would be more expensive in the short run. Many of the exit/entrance ramps and signs would need to be reconfigured as well as the removal, hauling and disposal or stockpiling of the old pavement, and restoration of the pavement area being removed. And probably wider shoulders added for the pavement that remains, on the former inside lane.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 21, 2021, 03:24:51 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on September 19, 2021, 10:18:26 PM
Do the locks even operate above De Pere? There are drawbridges all the way to OshKosh until you reach the Tribal Heritage Bridge (I-41). And that definitely wasn't built to Federal standards for a waterway.
One of those lock sets between De Pere and Kaukauna is permanently closed to try and restrict the movement of invasive species from the Great Lakes deeper into the Fox River system. Sea lampreys in particular. I forget which lock it is, though.
The Rapide Croche lock, just above Wrightstown, has been closed by state law since the 1980s and doesn't look likely to open anytime soon. The Menasha lock, which is the first lock exiting Lake Winnebago, has been closed for the last couple of years due to the round goby invasive species in the Fox River. They want to keep them out of the lake to protect the lake sturgeon fishery. (The goby are prolific fish egg eaters, and the sturgeon spawn very slowly.) They are trying to find a way to reopen that lock but it still looks to be a few years away.