Fully Vaccinated American citizens and permanent residents will be able to enter Canada for nonessential/discretionary travel after sixteen months of the border being closed, starting August 9. For other countries, Canada will open roughly a month later, on September 7. The accepted vaccines are Pfizer, J&J, Moderna, and AstraZeneca. Unfortunately, there aren't any solid plans to reopen the US border to Canadians as of typing this.
Prior to arrival, Proof of vaccination needs to be uploaded to Canada's free app ARRIVECAN.
For me, this is great timing. In mid August, I am headed up to Washington State. Now that the border is reopened, I now plan on spending a day in Victoria, BC; using the Port Angeles-Victoria Ferry MV Coho to get there.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRhphroLAN6/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CRhphroLAN6/) <- Canada's tourism page announcing the border reopening.
I much rather visit family in Mexico. It probably be a long time before I bother spending my tourism money in Canada.
Not just proof of vaccination. You also need to provide proof of a negative test within 72 hours prior to travel, regardless of vaccination status.
And while the blanket quarantine requirements are gone for fully vaccinated travelers, a border officer can require one at their discretion. Between that and the PCR test (not rapid test) requirement, we're still not quite at the level where just hopping over for a daytrip is really practical, if such ever will be again. After 9/11, though the border thinned from the thickest it was immediately after the attacks, it never got even close to pre-9/11 conditions, and I fear such could happen again. Just as Americans feared terrorists transiting through the north (whether such is rational or not - let's please keep this thread open by keeping the politics out), Canadians now fear the virus could come from the south (same note as previous).
Quote from: vdeane on July 19, 2021, 09:40:43 PM
And while the blanket quarantine requirements are gone for fully vaccinated travelers, a border officer can require one at their discretion. Between that and the PCR test (not rapid test) requirement, we're still not quite at the level where just hopping over for a daytrip is really practical, if such ever will be again. After 9/11, though the border thinned from the thickest it was immediately after the attacks, it never got even close to pre-9/11 conditions, and I fear such could happen again. Just as Americans feared terrorists transiting through the north (whether such is rational or not - let's please keep this thread open by keeping the politics out), Canadians now fear the virus could come from the south (same note as previous).
Politics aside, the arrogant attitude a lot of Canadians have towards American tourists in general (which has worsened since COVID) has really left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm sure lots of people from the northern border states will end up flocking back in droves but I can't see myself visiting for a couple years. Lots of other countries were way more inviting than Canada pre-COVID (or at least I found myself more welcome) and I can think of a pretty lengthy list of places I rather go first.
The negative test requirement is stupid. Even stupider that it can't be a rapid test (but I do agree with the vaccine requirement). It's a good first step at least and WAY overdue.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 19, 2021, 10:09:59 PM
The negative test requirement is stupid. Even stupider that it can't be a rapid test (but I do agree with the vaccine requirement). It's a good first step at least and WAY overdue.
I agree that border re-openings are, generally speaking, overdue. Countries across the world have opened, or are soon to open to Americans, but we aren't returning the favor. Yet, Canada is making this move as the Delta variant is ravaging parts of the US (namely Southwest Missouri, which has received plenty of national media attention as a result). The reason we chose Washington specifically is that my brother was to meet up with a friend from Europe. Unfortunately, he will not be able to enter the United States or Canada.
I will need to do some research to locate a place I can get an accepted type of COVID test near Seattle or Port Angeles, and somehow make it work with the plans of the rest of my trip. Quite a hassle for an overnight venture to Victoria.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on July 19, 2021, 10:39:03 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 19, 2021, 10:09:59 PM
The negative test requirement is stupid. Even stupider that it can't be a rapid test (but I do agree with the vaccine requirement). It's a good first step at least and WAY overdue.
I agree that border re-openings are, generally speaking, overdue. Countries across the world have opened, or are soon to open to Americans, but we aren't returning the favor. Yet, Canada is making this move as the Delta variant is ravaging parts of the US (namely Southwest Missouri, which has received plenty of national media attention as a result). The reason we chose Washington specifically is that my brother was to meet up with a friend from Europe. Unfortunately, he will not be able to enter the United States or Canada.
I will need to do some research to locate a place I can get an accepted type of COVID test near Seattle or Port Angeles, and somehow make it work with the plans of the rest of my trip. Quite a hassle for an overnight venture to Victoria.
Hopefully the US follows suit.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2021, 09:50:34 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 19, 2021, 09:40:43 PM
And while the blanket quarantine requirements are gone for fully vaccinated travelers, a border officer can require one at their discretion. Between that and the PCR test (not rapid test) requirement, we're still not quite at the level where just hopping over for a daytrip is really practical, if such ever will be again. After 9/11, though the border thinned from the thickest it was immediately after the attacks, it never got even close to pre-9/11 conditions, and I fear such could happen again. Just as Americans feared terrorists transiting through the north (whether such is rational or not - let's please keep this thread open by keeping the politics out), Canadians now fear the virus could come from the south (same note as previous).
Politics aside, the arrogant attitude a lot of Canadians have towards American tourists in general (which has worsened since COVID) has really left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm sure lots of people from the northern border states will end up flocking back in droves but I can't see myself visiting for a couple years. Lots of other countries were way more inviting than Canada pre-COVID (or at least I found myself more welcome) and I can think of a pretty lengthy list of places I rather go first.
I pretty much agree with this post. The Mexican border has been open for quite a while and you don't have to jump though a bunch of hoops to go either. I think I'll visit and spend my money in places that actually want it. Even though Canada is technically reopening the border it seems pretty clear that they really don't really want people coming. They wouldn't even be doing it at all if it wasn't for the border areas pushing for it so hard. Like I can't imagine how much money Niagara Falls, Ontario has lost.
I'm not sure what the US is going to do, but I'd impose the same restrictions on their people that they're imposing on ours. Seems fair to me.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on July 19, 2021, 10:39:03 PM
I will need to do some research to locate a place I can get an accepted type of COVID test near Seattle or Port Angeles, and somehow make it work with the plans of the rest of my trip. Quite a hassle for an overnight venture to Victoria.
Even a hassle for longer trips, too. The worrisome feature is that even with an acceptable negative test result, a border agent can still require you to have and potentially use a quarantine plan. That could easily screw up a multi-stop itinerary with overnight stays, like the one I usually have on my trips to Canada.
I definitely want to go at some point, but not immediately, since my summer is pretty much booked up. Maybe by late September/early October, when we should have more clarity on some of these issues.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2021, 09:50:34 PMPolitics aside, the arrogant attitude a lot of Canadians have towards American tourists in general (which has worsened since COVID) has really left a sour taste in my mouth.
I have relatives that live in the Detroit suburbs and they stopped going over before Covid broke out because of that.
Former WWE wrestler Bob Holly also wrote this in his book about going to Canada:
QuoteMontreal is completely the opposite of Australia---there seems to be a lot of rude people in Montreal. Several times when I stopped to ask for directions, the French Canadians just looked at me funny and walked off. I never did like going into Canada, period. Not many of the boys did. It was always such a hassle at customs. We entered other countries without a problem, but getting into Canada could be brutal. They'd take forever with us; it was torture. Any time we worked there, we'd get paid in Canadian dollars, so when the exchange rate was bad, we lost money like crazy. You'd better believe that seeing Canada on the schedule was a real buzzkill.
Quote from: LM117 on July 20, 2021, 09:18:03 AMQuoteMontreal is completely the opposite of Australia---there seems to be a lot of rude people in Montreal. Several times when I stopped to ask for directions, the French Canadians just looked at me funny and walked off. I never did like going into Canada, period. Not many of the boys did. It was always such a hassle at customs. We entered other countries without a problem, but getting into Canada could be brutal. They'd take forever with us; it was torture. Any time we worked there, we'd get paid in Canadian dollars, so when the exchange rate was bad, we lost money like crazy. You'd better believe that seeing Canada on the schedule was a real buzzkill.
Typical. Americans love to bash Canada for having soft borders, but then complain when the border turns out actually not to be porous.
Americans can enter Canada a full month before anyone else in the world can, but obviously Canadians only have an arrogant attitude to the US.
And of course, let's not forget that Canada has made its border opening announcement prior to any announcement from the US side. So Canada has opened it's border (or at least announced it's intention to open the border) to Americans before American's have opened its border to Canadians.
And then of course there are issues like free trade. One of the hallmarks of the previous governments election platform was renegotiating NAFTA. Of course, during that renegotiated deal, the US unilaterally decided to impose trade tariffs on goods under the ridiculous guise of "national security". What a quintessentially American thought -- you are only pro-free trade when it suits you. If someone else gets to make a buck, then fuck'em.
And then there's the point that the US by presidential order, decreed that no vaccines could be exported to Canada or other countries. Again, there's this thing called free-trade. So, the reason that Canada (and other countries) don't have the same level of domestic vaccine production because the economies of Canada (and other countries) have been so integrated with that of America. That was a dick move on behalf of the Americans. And now of course, despite the fact that the US has one of the best vaccine production rates in the world, nearly 50% of America's population is literally to stubborn to get vaccinated.
And let's not ignore the mess that occurred on January 6. Watching a countries Capitol Building be overrun by a bunch of clueless right wing thugs used to be the type of thing reserved for (to paraphrase the previous administrations parlance) shithole countries.
I'm looking forward to the border opening again. I'm eager to visit some cities that I haven't been to in a couple of years, but to all of the American's out there, my friends, don't pretend you haven't had some rather fouling smelling fecal matter drifting north over the past few years. It's ignorant and insulting.
The Blue Jays will play out their remaining home schedule at Rogers Centre, starting 7/30:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31829476/toronto-blue-jays-get-approval-canada-health-officials-july-30-return-reportedly-likely
And more than likely, the Raptors will be heading back home as well, after spending a year exiled in Tampa.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 09:42:23 AM
Quote from: LM117 on July 20, 2021, 09:18:03 AMQuoteMontreal is completely the opposite of Australia---there seems to be a lot of rude people in Montreal. Several times when I stopped to ask for directions, the French Canadians just looked at me funny and walked off. I never did like going into Canada, period. Not many of the boys did. It was always such a hassle at customs. We entered other countries without a problem, but getting into Canada could be brutal. They'd take forever with us; it was torture. Any time we worked there, we'd get paid in Canadian dollars, so when the exchange rate was bad, we lost money like crazy. You'd better believe that seeing Canada on the schedule was a real buzzkill.
Typical. Americans love to bash Canada for having soft borders, but then complain when the border turns out actually not to be porous.
Americans can enter Canada a full month before anyone else in the world can, but obviously Canadians only have an arrogant attitude to the US.
And of course, let's not forget that Canada has made its border opening announcement prior to any announcement from the US side. So Canada has opened it's border (or at least announced it's intention to open the border) to Americans before American's have opened its border to Canadians.
And then of course there are issues like free trade. One of the hallmarks of the previous governments election platform was renegotiating NAFTA. Of course, during that renegotiated deal, the US unilaterally decided to impose trade tariffs on goods under the ridiculous guise of "national security". What a quintessentially American thought -- you are only pro-free trade when it suits you. If someone else gets to make a buck, then fuck'em.
And then there's the point that the US by presidential order, decreed that no vaccines could be exported to Canada or other countries. Again, there's this thing called free-trade. So, the reason that Canada (and other countries) don't have the same level of domestic vaccine production because the economies of Canada (and other countries) have been so integrated with that of America. That was a dick move on behalf of the Americans. And now of course, despite the fact that the US has one of the best vaccine production rates in the world, nearly 50% of America's population is literally to stubborn to get vaccinated.
And let's not ignore the mess that occurred on January 6. Watching a countries Capitol Building be overrun by a bunch of clueless right wing thugs used to be the type of thing reserved for (to paraphrase the previous administrations parlance) shithole countries.
I'm looking forward to the border opening again. I'm eager to visit some cities that I haven't been to in a couple of years, but to all of the American's out there, my friends, don't pretend you haven't had some rather fouling smelling fecal matter drifting north over the past few years. It's ignorant and insulting.
I don't dispute the issues you state above on the U.S. side of things, there is certainly a lot of bad. All the same, the assumption that most of us supported things like what (or act a certain way) you describe above is the generalization I'm referring to. I rather just go somewhere else where nobody cares where I'm from or assumes something about me because of it.
Quote from: US 41 on July 19, 2021, 11:48:26 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2021, 09:50:34 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 19, 2021, 09:40:43 PM
And while the blanket quarantine requirements are gone for fully vaccinated travelers, a border officer can require one at their discretion. Between that and the PCR test (not rapid test) requirement, we're still not quite at the level where just hopping over for a daytrip is really practical, if such ever will be again. After 9/11, though the border thinned from the thickest it was immediately after the attacks, it never got even close to pre-9/11 conditions, and I fear such could happen again. Just as Americans feared terrorists transiting through the north (whether such is rational or not - let's please keep this thread open by keeping the politics out), Canadians now fear the virus could come from the south (same note as previous).
Politics aside, the arrogant attitude a lot of Canadians have towards American tourists in general (which has worsened since COVID) has really left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm sure lots of people from the northern border states will end up flocking back in droves but I can't see myself visiting for a couple years. Lots of other countries were way more inviting than Canada pre-COVID (or at least I found myself more welcome) and I can think of a pretty lengthy list of places I rather go first.
I pretty much agree with this post. The Mexican border has been open for quite a while and you don't have to jump though a bunch of hoops to go either. I think I'll visit and spend my money in places that actually want it. Even though Canada is technically reopening the border it seems pretty clear that they really don't really want people coming. They wouldn't even be doing it at all if it wasn't for the border areas pushing for it so hard. Like I can't imagine how much money Niagara Falls, Ontario has lost.
I'm not sure what the US is going to do, but I'd impose the same restrictions on their people that they're imposing on ours. Seems fair to me.
So first you say you'd rather spend your money in places that want it, and then you say let's impose our own restrictions on Canadians who might want to spend their money here. Please run that past us again. Canada at least is doing it for health-related reasons (whether or not you agree with their reasoning), whereas your reasoning is akin to sticking out your tongue and saying "same to you, fella."
On a separate note, Canada isn't opening to cruise ships until November 1st, which is still four months earlier than previously announced.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2021/07/15/cruise-ships-canada-waters-ban-lifted-november/7983543002/
It'll probably be a long time if ever if I ever return to Canada. I have no plans on ever returning to the country.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 09:42:23 AM
Quote from: LM117 on July 20, 2021, 09:18:03 AMQuoteMontreal is completely the opposite of Australia---there seems to be a lot of rude people in Montreal. Several times when I stopped to ask for directions, the French Canadians just looked at me funny and walked off. I never did like going into Canada, period. Not many of the boys did. It was always such a hassle at customs. We entered other countries without a problem, but getting into Canada could be brutal. They'd take forever with us; it was torture. Any time we worked there, we'd get paid in Canadian dollars, so when the exchange rate was bad, we lost money like crazy. You'd better believe that seeing Canada on the schedule was a real buzzkill.
Typical. Americans love to bash Canada for having soft borders, but then complain when the border turns out actually not to be porous.
Americans can enter Canada a full month before anyone else in the world can, but obviously Canadians only have an arrogant attitude to the US.
And of course, let's not forget that Canada has made its border opening announcement prior to any announcement from the US side. So Canada has opened it's border (or at least announced it's intention to open the border) to Americans before American's have opened its border to Canadians.
And then of course there are issues like free trade. One of the hallmarks of the previous governments election platform was renegotiating NAFTA. Of course, during that renegotiated deal, the US unilaterally decided to impose trade tariffs on goods under the ridiculous guise of "national security". What a quintessentially American thought -- you are only pro-free trade when it suits you. If someone else gets to make a buck, then fuck'em.
And then there's the point that the US by presidential order, decreed that no vaccines could be exported to Canada or other countries. Again, there's this thing called free-trade. So, the reason that Canada (and other countries) don't have the same level of domestic vaccine production because the economies of Canada (and other countries) have been so integrated with that of America. That was a dick move on behalf of the Americans. And now of course, despite the fact that the US has one of the best vaccine production rates in the world, nearly 50% of America's population is literally to stubborn to get vaccinated.
And let's not ignore the mess that occurred on January 6. Watching a countries Capitol Building be overrun by a bunch of clueless right wing thugs used to be the type of thing reserved for (to paraphrase the previous administrations parlance) shithole countries.
I'm looking forward to the border opening again. I'm eager to visit some cities that I haven't been to in a couple of years, but to all of the American's out there, my friends, don't pretend you haven't had some rather fouling smelling fecal matter drifting north over the past few years. It's ignorant and insulting.
I don't dispute the issues you state above on the U.S. side of things, there is certainly a lot of bad. All the same, the assumption that most of us supported things like what (or act a certain way) you describe above is the generalization I'm referring to. I rather just go somewhere else where nobody cares where I'm from or assumes something about me because of it.
You mean you are signing up for Antarctic expedition?? That is COOL!
On a different note, way before covid, there was a trend of americans stocking on maple leaf merchandise before european trips to disguise their origin... Why would that be?
Sadly, SOME Canadians define their country in terms that can come off as insulting to Americans. As "not America" . Sort of like being "non-dairy creamer" it is odd, defining something as what it is NOT, rather than what it is. This can come off as arrogant and condescending.
Further, IMHO, French Canadians hate English Canadians, and Americans can get mistaken for an English Canadian and get treated in the same shabby manner. In my experience, when Quebeckers know you are an American, their attitude changes totally.
As to "non-essential" travel, really, the country, from what I see on the news and from YouTubers that I trust, remains shut down and thus does not have the tourist infrastructure to make a trip enjoyable. Combined with the need for a $100 test and the overwhelmed health care system if one did get sick, from C*** or whatever, makes it a pass for at least a few more years.
Quote from: kalvado on July 20, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 09:42:23 AM
Quote from: LM117 on July 20, 2021, 09:18:03 AMQuoteMontreal is completely the opposite of Australia---there seems to be a lot of rude people in Montreal. Several times when I stopped to ask for directions, the French Canadians just looked at me funny and walked off. I never did like going into Canada, period. Not many of the boys did. It was always such a hassle at customs. We entered other countries without a problem, but getting into Canada could be brutal. They'd take forever with us; it was torture. Any time we worked there, we'd get paid in Canadian dollars, so when the exchange rate was bad, we lost money like crazy. You'd better believe that seeing Canada on the schedule was a real buzzkill.
Typical. Americans love to bash Canada for having soft borders, but then complain when the border turns out actually not to be porous.
Americans can enter Canada a full month before anyone else in the world can, but obviously Canadians only have an arrogant attitude to the US.
And of course, let's not forget that Canada has made its border opening announcement prior to any announcement from the US side. So Canada has opened it's border (or at least announced it's intention to open the border) to Americans before American's have opened its border to Canadians.
And then of course there are issues like free trade. One of the hallmarks of the previous governments election platform was renegotiating NAFTA. Of course, during that renegotiated deal, the US unilaterally decided to impose trade tariffs on goods under the ridiculous guise of "national security". What a quintessentially American thought -- you are only pro-free trade when it suits you. If someone else gets to make a buck, then fuck'em.
And then there's the point that the US by presidential order, decreed that no vaccines could be exported to Canada or other countries. Again, there's this thing called free-trade. So, the reason that Canada (and other countries) don't have the same level of domestic vaccine production because the economies of Canada (and other countries) have been so integrated with that of America. That was a dick move on behalf of the Americans. And now of course, despite the fact that the US has one of the best vaccine production rates in the world, nearly 50% of America's population is literally to stubborn to get vaccinated.
And let's not ignore the mess that occurred on January 6. Watching a countries Capitol Building be overrun by a bunch of clueless right wing thugs used to be the type of thing reserved for (to paraphrase the previous administrations parlance) shithole countries.
I'm looking forward to the border opening again. I'm eager to visit some cities that I haven't been to in a couple of years, but to all of the American's out there, my friends, don't pretend you haven't had some rather fouling smelling fecal matter drifting north over the past few years. It's ignorant and insulting.
I don't dispute the issues you state above on the U.S. side of things, there is certainly a lot of bad. All the same, the assumption that most of us supported things like what (or act a certain way) you describe above is the generalization I'm referring to. I rather just go somewhere else where nobody cares where I'm from or assumes something about me because of it.
You mean you are signing up for Antarctic expedition?? That is COOL!
On a different note, way before covid, there was a trend of americans stocking on maple leaf merchandise before european trips to disguise their origin... Why would that be?
Actually an Antarctic expedition sounds like a once in a life thing that I would love to do.
Usually I would just avoid the topic of where I was from on previous trips to Canada. Most people in person are generally nice and it would be fair to say most (this goes for people anywhere) are indifferent to where people are from in general. Being a Red Wings fan wearing anything from the Toronto Maple Leafs was a no-no.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on July 20, 2021, 10:01:33 AM
Quote from: US 41 on July 19, 2021, 11:48:26 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2021, 09:50:34 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 19, 2021, 09:40:43 PM
And while the blanket quarantine requirements are gone for fully vaccinated travelers, a border officer can require one at their discretion. Between that and the PCR test (not rapid test) requirement, we're still not quite at the level where just hopping over for a daytrip is really practical, if such ever will be again. After 9/11, though the border thinned from the thickest it was immediately after the attacks, it never got even close to pre-9/11 conditions, and I fear such could happen again. Just as Americans feared terrorists transiting through the north (whether such is rational or not - let's please keep this thread open by keeping the politics out), Canadians now fear the virus could come from the south (same note as previous).
Politics aside, the arrogant attitude a lot of Canadians have towards American tourists in general (which has worsened since COVID) has really left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm sure lots of people from the northern border states will end up flocking back in droves but I can't see myself visiting for a couple years. Lots of other countries were way more inviting than Canada pre-COVID (or at least I found myself more welcome) and I can think of a pretty lengthy list of places I rather go first.
I pretty much agree with this post. The Mexican border has been open for quite a while and you don't have to jump though a bunch of hoops to go either. I think I'll visit and spend my money in places that actually want it. Even though Canada is technically reopening the border it seems pretty clear that they really don't really want people coming. They wouldn't even be doing it at all if it wasn't for the border areas pushing for it so hard. Like I can't imagine how much money Niagara Falls, Ontario has lost.
I'm not sure what the US is going to do, but I'd impose the same restrictions on their people that they're imposing on ours. Seems fair to me.
So first you say you'd rather spend your money in places that want it, and then you say let's impose our own restrictions on Canadians who might want to spend their money here. Please run that past us again. Canada at least is doing it for health-related reasons (whether or not you agree with their reasoning), whereas your reasoning is akin to sticking out your tongue and saying "same to you, fella."
On a separate note, Canada isn't opening to cruise ships until November 1st, which is still four months earlier than previously announced.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2021/07/15/cruise-ships-canada-waters-ban-lifted-november/7983543002/
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 09:42:23 AM
Quote from: LM117 on July 20, 2021, 09:18:03 AMQuoteMontreal is completely the opposite of Australia---there seems to be a lot of rude people in Montreal. Several times when I stopped to ask for directions, the French Canadians just looked at me funny and walked off. I never did like going into Canada, period. Not many of the boys did. It was always such a hassle at customs. We entered other countries without a problem, but getting into Canada could be brutal. They'd take forever with us; it was torture. Any time we worked there, we'd get paid in Canadian dollars, so when the exchange rate was bad, we lost money like crazy. You'd better believe that seeing Canada on the schedule was a real buzzkill.
Typical. Americans love to bash Canada for having soft borders, but then complain when the border turns out actually not to be porous.
Americans can enter Canada a full month before anyone else in the world can, but obviously Canadians only have an arrogant attitude to the US.
And of course, let's not forget that Canada has made its border opening announcement prior to any announcement from the US side. So Canada has opened it's border (or at least announced it's intention to open the border) to Americans before American's have opened its border to Canadians.
And then of course there are issues like free trade. One of the hallmarks of the previous governments election platform was renegotiating NAFTA. Of course, during that renegotiated deal, the US unilaterally decided to impose trade tariffs on goods under the ridiculous guise of "national security". What a quintessentially American thought -- you are only pro-free trade when it suits you. If someone else gets to make a buck, then fuck'em.
And then there's the point that the US by presidential order, decreed that no vaccines could be exported to Canada or other countries. Again, there's this thing called free-trade. So, the reason that Canada (and other countries) don't have the same level of domestic vaccine production because the economies of Canada (and other countries) have been so integrated with that of America. That was a dick move on behalf of the Americans. And now of course, despite the fact that the US has one of the best vaccine production rates in the world, nearly 50% of America's population is literally to stubborn to get vaccinated.
And let's not ignore the mess that occurred on January 6. Watching a countries Capitol Building be overrun by a bunch of clueless right wing thugs used to be the type of thing reserved for (to paraphrase the previous administrations parlance) shithole countries.
I'm looking forward to the border opening again. I'm eager to visit some cities that I haven't been to in a couple of years, but to all of the American's out there, my friends, don't pretend you haven't had some rather fouling smelling fecal matter drifting north over the past few years. It's ignorant and insulting.
I don't dispute the issues you state above on the U.S. side of things, there is certainly a lot of bad. All the same, the assumption that most of us supported things like what (or act a certain way) you describe above is the generalization I'm referring to. I rather just go somewhere else where nobody cares where I'm from or assumes something about me because of it.
Max, you are free to do what you like, but if you think that Mexican's have a more favourable view of American's than Canadians do, you're out of your mind.
Quote from: SP Cook on July 20, 2021, 10:15:26 AM
Sadly, SOME Canadians define their country in terms that can come off as insulting to Americans. As "not America" . Sort of like being "non-dairy creamer" it is odd, defining something as what it is NOT, rather than what it is. This can come off as arrogant and condescending.
Further, IMHO, French Canadians hate English Canadians, and Americans can get mistaken for an English Canadian and get treated in the same shabby manner. In my experience, when Quebeckers know you are an American, their attitude changes totally.
As to "non-essential" travel, really, the country, from what I see on the news and from YouTubers that I trust, remains shut down and thus does not have the tourist infrastructure to make a trip enjoyable. Combined with the need for a $100 test and the overwhelmed health care system if one did get sick, from C*** or whatever, makes it a pass for at least a few more years.
Yeah, Quebecers usually will treat English speaking American's far more favourably than English speaking Canadians.
Canadians who speak English ought to know better. Lol.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2021, 10:26:37 AM
Quote from: kalvado on July 20, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 09:42:23 AM
Quote from: LM117 on July 20, 2021, 09:18:03 AMQuoteMontreal is completely the opposite of Australia---there seems to be a lot of rude people in Montreal. Several times when I stopped to ask for directions, the French Canadians just looked at me funny and walked off. I never did like going into Canada, period. Not many of the boys did. It was always such a hassle at customs. We entered other countries without a problem, but getting into Canada could be brutal. They'd take forever with us; it was torture. Any time we worked there, we'd get paid in Canadian dollars, so when the exchange rate was bad, we lost money like crazy. You'd better believe that seeing Canada on the schedule was a real buzzkill.
Typical. Americans love to bash Canada for having soft borders, but then complain when the border turns out actually not to be porous.
Americans can enter Canada a full month before anyone else in the world can, but obviously Canadians only have an arrogant attitude to the US.
And of course, let's not forget that Canada has made its border opening announcement prior to any announcement from the US side. So Canada has opened it's border (or at least announced it's intention to open the border) to Americans before American's have opened its border to Canadians.
And then of course there are issues like free trade. One of the hallmarks of the previous governments election platform was renegotiating NAFTA. Of course, during that renegotiated deal, the US unilaterally decided to impose trade tariffs on goods under the ridiculous guise of "national security". What a quintessentially American thought -- you are only pro-free trade when it suits you. If someone else gets to make a buck, then fuck'em.
And then there's the point that the US by presidential order, decreed that no vaccines could be exported to Canada or other countries. Again, there's this thing called free-trade. So, the reason that Canada (and other countries) don't have the same level of domestic vaccine production because the economies of Canada (and other countries) have been so integrated with that of America. That was a dick move on behalf of the Americans. And now of course, despite the fact that the US has one of the best vaccine production rates in the world, nearly 50% of America's population is literally to stubborn to get vaccinated.
And let's not ignore the mess that occurred on January 6. Watching a countries Capitol Building be overrun by a bunch of clueless right wing thugs used to be the type of thing reserved for (to paraphrase the previous administrations parlance) shithole countries.
I'm looking forward to the border opening again. I'm eager to visit some cities that I haven't been to in a couple of years, but to all of the American's out there, my friends, don't pretend you haven't had some rather fouling smelling fecal matter drifting north over the past few years. It's ignorant and insulting.
I don't dispute the issues you state above on the U.S. side of things, there is certainly a lot of bad. All the same, the assumption that most of us supported things like what (or act a certain way) you describe above is the generalization I'm referring to. I rather just go somewhere else where nobody cares where I'm from or assumes something about me because of it.
You mean you are signing up for Antarctic expedition?? That is COOL!
On a different note, way before covid, there was a trend of americans stocking on maple leaf merchandise before european trips to disguise their origin... Why would that be?
Actually an Antarctic expedition sounds like a once in a life thing that I would love to do.
Usually I would just avoid the topic of where I was from on previous trips to Canada. Most people in person are generally nice and it would be fair to say most (this goes for people anywhere) are indifferent to where people are from in general. Being a Red Wings fan wearing anything from the Toronto Maple Leafs was a no-no.
I looked up antarctic opportunities at some point. US has essentially a small town there, main coastal base is 3k population or so. Many common folks are welcomed - for example, maintenance workers like plumbers, electricians, etc.
As for care where you're from.. a lot of times that shows up regardless of what you want to show. And some (not sure about %%, as counterexamples tend to blend in) Americans tend to treat outsiders as subpar people - that is often visible regardless of what you say. That is fairly well visible in this thread, if you think about it.
Quote from: kalvado on July 20, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2021, 10:26:37 AM
Quote from: kalvado on July 20, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 09:42:23 AM
Quote from: LM117 on July 20, 2021, 09:18:03 AMQuoteMontreal is completely the opposite of Australia---there seems to be a lot of rude people in Montreal. Several times when I stopped to ask for directions, the French Canadians just looked at me funny and walked off. I never did like going into Canada, period. Not many of the boys did. It was always such a hassle at customs. We entered other countries without a problem, but getting into Canada could be brutal. They'd take forever with us; it was torture. Any time we worked there, we'd get paid in Canadian dollars, so when the exchange rate was bad, we lost money like crazy. You'd better believe that seeing Canada on the schedule was a real buzzkill.
Typical. Americans love to bash Canada for having soft borders, but then complain when the border turns out actually not to be porous.
Americans can enter Canada a full month before anyone else in the world can, but obviously Canadians only have an arrogant attitude to the US.
And of course, let's not forget that Canada has made its border opening announcement prior to any announcement from the US side. So Canada has opened it's border (or at least announced it's intention to open the border) to Americans before American's have opened its border to Canadians.
And then of course there are issues like free trade. One of the hallmarks of the previous governments election platform was renegotiating NAFTA. Of course, during that renegotiated deal, the US unilaterally decided to impose trade tariffs on goods under the ridiculous guise of "national security". What a quintessentially American thought -- you are only pro-free trade when it suits you. If someone else gets to make a buck, then fuck'em.
And then there's the point that the US by presidential order, decreed that no vaccines could be exported to Canada or other countries. Again, there's this thing called free-trade. So, the reason that Canada (and other countries) don't have the same level of domestic vaccine production because the economies of Canada (and other countries) have been so integrated with that of America. That was a dick move on behalf of the Americans. And now of course, despite the fact that the US has one of the best vaccine production rates in the world, nearly 50% of America's population is literally to stubborn to get vaccinated.
And let's not ignore the mess that occurred on January 6. Watching a countries Capitol Building be overrun by a bunch of clueless right wing thugs used to be the type of thing reserved for (to paraphrase the previous administrations parlance) shithole countries.
I'm looking forward to the border opening again. I'm eager to visit some cities that I haven't been to in a couple of years, but to all of the American's out there, my friends, don't pretend you haven't had some rather fouling smelling fecal matter drifting north over the past few years. It's ignorant and insulting.
I don't dispute the issues you state above on the U.S. side of things, there is certainly a lot of bad. All the same, the assumption that most of us supported things like what (or act a certain way) you describe above is the generalization I'm referring to. I rather just go somewhere else where nobody cares where I'm from or assumes something about me because of it.
You mean you are signing up for Antarctic expedition?? That is COOL!
On a different note, way before covid, there was a trend of americans stocking on maple leaf merchandise before european trips to disguise their origin... Why would that be?
Actually an Antarctic expedition sounds like a once in a life thing that I would love to do.
Usually I would just avoid the topic of where I was from on previous trips to Canada. Most people in person are generally nice and it would be fair to say most (this goes for people anywhere) are indifferent to where people are from in general. Being a Red Wings fan wearing anything from the Toronto Maple Leafs was a no-no.
I looked up antarctic opportunities at some point. US has essentially a small town there, main coastal base is 3k population or so. Many common folks are welcomed - for example, maintenance workers like plumbers, electricians, etc.
As for care where you're from.. a lot of times that shows up regardless of what you want to show. And some (not sure about %%, as counterexamples tend to blend in) Americans tend to treat outsiders as subpar people - that is often visible regardless of what you say. That is fairly well visible in this thread, if you think about it.
Given my field of work there is probably a decent chance I could have some opportunities to visit said base Antarctica. I'm not sure how my wife would feel about me being out of the house a sustained amount of time but it would be interesting.
As an example it was fairly obvious my wife isn't Canadian given her accent and ethnicity. Generally I blend in more with the crowd in Canada because I have a stock Midwest accent and really kinda just look like everyone else. It's the complete reverse in Europe since my wife speaks fluent Spanish and my Midwest accent is a dead giveaway that I'm from North America.
Speaking for myself I've personally never cared where people are from. We have a lot of family on my Wife's side that are Mexican Citizens, to me that is just a normal thing (which probably has a lot to do with how long I've lived in the Southwest).
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 09:42:23 AM
Typical. Americans love to bash Canada for having soft borders, but then complain when the border turns out actually not to be porous.
Strawman. Many on this forum and in other places advocate for an even more open border without checks similar to the EU arrangement.
Quote
Americans can enter Canada a full month before anyone else in the world can, but obviously Canadians only have an arrogant attitude to the US.
Everything after the but is irrelevant-no one but your strawman said that only Canadians had an arrogant attitude. Most Canadians that I've met are nice people, and I've met a handful who dislike the US. In fact, I remember being called a "dirty American" when I was 10 or 11. That was literally the only time a Canadian said that to my face.
Quote
And of course, let's not forget that Canada has made its border opening announcement prior to any announcement from the US side. So Canada has opened it's [sic] border (or at least announced it's intention to open the border) to Americans before American's [sic] have opened its border to Canadians.
Yes, this administration has fallen down in pressuring Canada to reopen as well as taking steps to reopen the border on the US side.
Quote
And then of course there are issues like free trade. One of the hallmarks of the previous governments election platform was renegotiating NAFTA. Of course, during that renegotiated deal, the US unilaterally decided to impose trade tariffs on goods under the ridiculous guise of "national security". What a quintessentially American thought -- you are only pro-free trade when it suits you. If someone else gets to make a buck, then fuck'em.
The previous administration's lack of support for free trade was disturbing. And, at the end of the day, we replaced NAFTA with the US-Canada-Mexico free trade agreement which was essentially the same. That said, I'm shocked, shocked, that there are hypocrites in positions of power. It's not just quintessentially American, it's quintessentially human.
Quote
And then there's the point that the US by presidential order, decreed that no vaccines could be exported to Canada or other countries. Again, there's this thing called free-trade. So, the reason that Canada (and other countries) don't have the same level of domestic vaccine production because the economies of Canada (and other countries) have been so integrated with that of America. That was a dick move on behalf of the Americans. And now of course, despite the fact that the US has one of the best vaccine production rates in the world, nearly 50% of America's population is literally to stubborn to get vaccinated.
I believe that the goal was to get all Americans vaccinated, and the export ban was lifted once we started having surpluses. That said, I don't get the vaccine hesitancy other than as a tribal status symbol. I mean, besides his instincts that lockdowns were bad, Trump's greatest accomplishment in COVID was Operation Warp Speed accelerating and purchasing the vaccines.
Quote
And let's not ignore the mess that occurred on January 6. Watching a countries Capitol Building be overrun by a bunch of clueless right wing thugs used to be the type of thing reserved for (to paraphrase the previous administrations parlance) shithole countries.
"Overrun" is an overstatement-there really was never any danger of the government falling as happens in "shithole countries". It was a mess, those who actually broke in or caused damaged should be prosecuted, and it just wasn't as big of a deal as many wish to make it for their political purposes.
QuoteI'm looking forward to the border opening again. I'm eager to visit some cities that I haven't been to in a couple of years, but to all of the American's out there, my friends, don't pretend you haven't had some rather fouling smelling fecal matter drifting north over the past few years. It's ignorant and insulting.
Considering Canada has been operating as an authoritarian dictatorship the last year with the most stringent restrictions in the first world, there's plenty of "fecal matter" going around. That said, it took the two bumbling idiots Trump and Trudeau to close the Canadian border in the first place, and it should never have been closed at all. My family has owned property there since the 1930s, and we were denied our right to use and access that property for the first time ever. My great grandparents, grandparents, and mom were even able to use it during World War II, and even the short closure at 9/11 was only a few days, not 16 months.
I'm happy that it is reopening and that my dad and I will be able to spend some time there at our place next month even with the silly and onerous restrictions including a PCR test and a quarantine plan that won't need to be used.
^ Sure, there are many on this forum that do advocate for less border scrutiny than there currently is. It's a complicated issue fraught with legitimate sovereignty issues.
But, following 9/11, it was fairly common to hear about how the terrorists entered the US from Canada because Canada has lax border security. Which was obviously pretty frustrating to hear as a Canadian. No countries border security is perfect, neither the US's or Canada's, but it was pretty annoying to hear that somehow it was Canada's fault that the towers were knocked down. (Even if it was just said as an implication).
Canada's shit smells bad too. I am not (and was not) trying to imply that it doesn't. Probably the most defining thing about the culture of Canada (certainly English Canadian culture at least) is the fact that Canadians aren't Americans. I've always found to be a weak spot of Canada's cultural identity.
For as much as I am not a Trump supporter, he should be championed for Operation Warp Speed -- it was his greatest accomplishment, following a fairly bumbled early response to the pandemic. To his credit though, many (most?) world leaders mishandled the early days and months of the pandemic.
The border closure has impacted those on both sides of the border. There are many Canadian snowbirds who own property in the south, some who chose not to go down this winter, while others who chose to go down, had to either stay in the US, or face rather onerous quarantine restrictions upon their return.
I had a very pleasant trip to Canada in 2019. Regarding rude Quebecois and despite the widespread ability to speak English, I do wonder if those Americans who experienced rudeness were themselves insensitive to the local culture. As my father says, even just using a handful of words in a local language can generate a disproportionate amount of goodwill (even in Paris). Looking forward to returning to Canada at the end of August if I can figure out the testing.
And I do find it repulsive that the U.S. has not developed an opening plan like Canada has, and yet Americans have been clamoring for Canada to open. Bad form.
That said, I do think Canada blaming the U.S. for lack of vaccine access is more reflective of their shortsightedness in this matter and a blunder of a misread of American leadership. I mean, in what universe would one have expected Trump to share? Even then, "us first, you second" was bound to be a reality. Combine that condition with the vaccine hesitancy based upon misinformation and lack of judgment amongst about 40% of our population and yes, you end up with a lack of flow to the outside world. Any observer of the U.S. should have said, "Um, they're screwed down there, we need to look for other solutions than waiting for vaccines to come from that ongoing disaster."
I am also not sure how the embarrassment of January 6th pertains to how American tourists treat Canadians and vice versa.
And finally, for Americans to try to pass themselves as Canadians is highly foolish and it backfires. In my wife's and my own travels, we've found people tend not to like being lied to on this manner and causes all sorts of offense and confusion once the truth inevitably comes out one way or another. That said, I do wonder just how many American tourists try to pull this stunt. I can't believe it is that many. We're too patriotic. :D
*runs back to checking test appointments so he can get one 72 hours before entering Canada at the end of August*
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2021, 10:53:25 AM
Speaking for myself I've personally never cared where people are from. We have a lot of family on my Wife's side that are Mexican Citizens, to me that is just a normal thing (which probably has a lot to do with how long I've lived in the Southwest).
You personally maybe. People in general... Often at least you have to be aware of origin. Just as an example sitting next to me - if Chinese guy sounds like he is gonna go into a scandal in a moment - don't worry, that is their normal intonation. There are many such nuances.. And as an extreme example - I heard a fair share of horror stories of how US CBP singles out anyone looking remotely middle eastern on any border - including US-Canada border....
Quote from: Rothman on July 20, 2021, 11:20:08 AM
I had a very pleasant trip to Canada in 2019. Regarding rude Quebecois and despite the widespread ability to speak English, I do wonder if those Americans who experienced rudeness were themselves insensitive to the local culture. As my father says, even just using a handful of words in a local language can generate a disproportionate amount of goodwill (even in Paris). Looking forward to returning to Canada at the end of August if I can figure out the testing.
And I do find it repulsive that the U.S. has not developed an opening plan like Canada has, and yet Americans have been clamoring for Canada to open. Bad form.
That said, I do think Canada blaming the U.S. for lack of vaccine access is more reflective of their shortsightedness in this matter and a blunder of a misread of American leadership. I mean, in what universe would one have expected Trump to share? Even then, "us first, you second" was bound to be a reality. Combine that condition with the vaccine hesitancy based upon misinformation and lack of judgment amongst about 40% of our population and yes, you end up with a lack of flow to the outside world. Any observer of the U.S. should have said, "Um, they're screwed down there, we need to look for other solutions than waiting for vaccines to come from that ongoing disaster."
I am also not sure how the embarrassment of January 6th pertains to how American tourists treat Canadians and vice versa.
*runs back to checking test appointments so he can get one 72 hours before entering Canada at the end of August*
Quebec situation is largely a local issue. If you know any language other than English, try using that - your server may suddenly realize English is a good common ground...
As for sharing - it is always the same: THEY are unwilling to help because THEY don't share OUR concerns - but why should WE help THEM when WE have OUR own concerns? Substitute any groups of people for WE and THEY, and it holds true most of the time.
Cool it on the politics, folks. We don't need to hear your opinions on the President(s) and Prime Minister.
Quote from: Rothman on July 20, 2021, 11:20:08 AM
That said, I do think Canada blaming the U.S. for lack of vaccine access is more reflective of their shortsightedness in this matter and a blunder of a misread of American leadership. I mean, in what universe would one have expected Trump to share? Even then, "us first, you second" was bound to be a reality. Combine that condition with the vaccine hesitancy based upon misinformation and lack of judgment amongst about 40% of our population and yes, you end up with a lack of flow to the outside world. Any observer of the U.S. should have said, "Um, they're screwed down there, we need to look for other solutions than waiting for vaccines to come from that ongoing disaster."
Canada did prepare of that. Canada pre-ordered the highest amount of vaccine doses per capita of any country in the world. But I still think it was a dick move (even if not a surprising one).
I think it's worth mentioning that Canada, as a country, often compares itself to Australia. They are pretty similar in many ways, including history, economy, and from both having vast amounts of uninhabited inhospitable lands. (We have both mistreated the indigenous peoples of our respective countries similarly poorly for what it's worth too, to be honest).
But because Australia has been able to keep the virus at bay largely with strict border control measures, there has been somewhat of a desire to do that in Canada. Obviously this isn't really a realistic approach in Canada given the fact that we have a large, typically fairly open, land border with another country. But that's why, from a political standpoint, there has been some hesitancy to open the borders in Canada until the virus has been largely knocked down abroad.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 11:17:51 AM
^ Sure, there are many on this forum that do advocate for less border scrutiny than there currently is. It's a complicated issue fraught with legitimate sovereignty issues.
But, following 9/11, it was fairly common to hear about how the terrorists entered the US from Canada because Canada has lax border security. Which was obviously pretty frustrating to hear as a Canadian. No countries border security is perfect, neither the US's or Canada's, but it was pretty annoying to hear that somehow it was Canada's fault that the towers were knocked down. (Even if it was just said as an implication).
Canada's shit smells bad too. I am not (and was not) trying to imply that it doesn't. Probably the most defining thing about the culture of Canada (certainly English Canadian culture at least) is the fact that Canadians aren't Americans. I've always found to be a weak spot of Canada's cultural identity.
For as much as I am not a Trump supporter, he should be championed for Operation Warp Speed -- it was his greatest accomplishment, following a fairly bumbled early response to the pandemic. To his credit though, many (most?) world leaders mishandled the early days and months of the pandemic.
The border closure has impacted those on both sides of the border. There are many Canadian snowbirds who own property in the south, some who chose not to go down this winter, while others who chose to go down, had to either stay in the US, or face rather onerous quarantine restrictions upon their return.
The toughest thing for most Americans to do is consider why someone, especially English-speaking, would not want to be American. It's a complete cultural blind spot.
I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 01:14:40 PM
I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.
We have a much more combative culture in the US than Canada does. If you committed a faux pas, you'd never hear about it, but they'd be sure to talk about it behind your back.
Weird to see such Canadian backlash. I've been to Canada somewhere on the order of 10 times and always had a wonderful time with super nice people, from Vancouver to Saskatoon to Toronto to Quebec City (and I don't speak much more than absolutely basic French). I, personally, can't wait to go back. I had a trip planned once to the Atlantic provinces that I had to cancel. Maybe it's time to burn some miles and go back out that way.
Chris
Quote from: kalvado on July 20, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 09:42:23 AM
Quote from: LM117 on July 20, 2021, 09:18:03 AMQuoteMontreal is completely the opposite of Australia---there seems to be a lot of rude people in Montreal. Several times when I stopped to ask for directions, the French Canadians just looked at me funny and walked off. I never did like going into Canada, period. Not many of the boys did. It was always such a hassle at customs. We entered other countries without a problem, but getting into Canada could be brutal. They'd take forever with us; it was torture. Any time we worked there, we'd get paid in Canadian dollars, so when the exchange rate was bad, we lost money like crazy. You'd better believe that seeing Canada on the schedule was a real buzzkill.
Typical. Americans love to bash Canada for having soft borders, but then complain when the border turns out actually not to be porous.
Americans can enter Canada a full month before anyone else in the world can, but obviously Canadians only have an arrogant attitude to the US.
And of course, let's not forget that Canada has made its border opening announcement prior to any announcement from the US side. So Canada has opened it's border (or at least announced it's intention to open the border) to Americans before American's have opened its border to Canadians.
And then of course there are issues like free trade. One of the hallmarks of the previous governments election platform was renegotiating NAFTA. Of course, during that renegotiated deal, the US unilaterally decided to impose trade tariffs on goods under the ridiculous guise of "national security". What a quintessentially American thought -- you are only pro-free trade when it suits you. If someone else gets to make a buck, then fuck'em.
And then there's the point that the US by presidential order, decreed that no vaccines could be exported to Canada or other countries. Again, there's this thing called free-trade. So, the reason that Canada (and other countries) don't have the same level of domestic vaccine production because the economies of Canada (and other countries) have been so integrated with that of America. That was a dick move on behalf of the Americans. And now of course, despite the fact that the US has one of the best vaccine production rates in the world, nearly 50% of America's population is literally to stubborn to get vaccinated.
And let's not ignore the mess that occurred on January 6. Watching a countries Capitol Building be overrun by a bunch of clueless right wing thugs used to be the type of thing reserved for (to paraphrase the previous administrations parlance) shithole countries.
I'm looking forward to the border opening again. I'm eager to visit some cities that I haven't been to in a couple of years, but to all of the American's out there, my friends, don't pretend you haven't had some rather fouling smelling fecal matter drifting north over the past few years. It's ignorant and insulting.
I don’t dispute the issues you state above on the U.S. side of things, there is certainly a lot of bad. All the same, the assumption that most of us supported things like what (or act a certain way) you describe above is the generalization I’m referring to. I rather just go somewhere else where nobody cares where I’m from or assumes something about me because of it.
You mean you are signing up for Antarctic expedition?? That is COOL!
On a different note, way before covid, there was a trend of americans stocking on maple leaf merchandise before european trips to disguise their origin... Why would that be?
I'll stand in the middle on this one. I visited Europe many many times and not once did I try to hide my identity as an American by posing as a Canadian. I personally have been to Toronto and Montreal a few times and never have I seen this supposed poor attitude that Canadians have, and have only met very nice people in Montreal. Maybe some of this comes from me being a Texan so I seem like an anomaly to Europeans and Canadians :-D. I find the U.S./Canadian border to be a strict one, going both ways. Nobody I have seen in Canada was wearing a lumberjack shirt, a hat with earflaps even in the summer, overtly saying "Eh" or apologizing for someone running into them.
I understand where some Americans feel French Canadians (and to some extent English Canadians) have an entitled attitude. I have seen Canadians basically say they are better because they were not Americans. I have seen Americans also say the inverse.
My point: generalizations are exactly that. They are things that are seen some, that some may think seem above average, but are blown out of proportions for comedic effect. Here is the deal, Canadians crack Americans for being fat, dumb and having no standard health care and Americans bash Canadians for being soft and myopian of their own selves. Neither is a blanket statement and neither need to be taken seriously because they just jokes. I laugh at what Americans say about Canadians but I laugh even harder about what Canadians say about Americans. Both countries crap stinks. There are good ones and bad ones in both places. The best thing about comedy is you have to be able to laugh at yourself before you laugh at everyone else. I get that Americans can rub a lot of the world raw, and I roll with that.
I know us Americans can see things through the comfort of their couch and not understand why anyone would hate us, but I say this. I was in Paris about 13 years ago around the Eiffel Tower. There was a tour bus full of very rich high school/college age American girls that pulled up to the curb to let the girls out and take pictures. They all pilled out talking loudly to each other about how lame they think the stuff in France is, how stupid it is that all the fast food joints and Starbucks aren't all over the place like they are wherever they live, how dumb they think the people are, completely disrespecting a street merchant, talking loudly to people who don't speak English thinking yelling at them will make them understand it better, littering, being overtly rude and all around having an extremely entitled attitude to the whole thing and personally making me feel like they took a crap all over Paris. I was instantly embarrassed to be an American and I understood why the world has a grim view of us. I also realized that view is not directed at me personally, but it doesn't keep them from having a sore view even though I was over there trying to fit in with the culture and language. That's just the way it goes sometime; guilt by association.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 01:14:40 PM
I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.
If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.
But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on July 20, 2021, 01:13:38 PM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 11:17:51 AM
^ Sure, there are many on this forum that do advocate for less border scrutiny than there currently is. It's a complicated issue fraught with legitimate sovereignty issues.
But, following 9/11, it was fairly common to hear about how the terrorists entered the US from Canada because Canada has lax border security. Which was obviously pretty frustrating to hear as a Canadian. No countries border security is perfect, neither the US's or Canada's, but it was pretty annoying to hear that somehow it was Canada's fault that the towers were knocked down. (Even if it was just said as an implication).
Canada's shit smells bad too. I am not (and was not) trying to imply that it doesn't. Probably the most defining thing about the culture of Canada (certainly English Canadian culture at least) is the fact that Canadians aren't Americans. I've always found to be a weak spot of Canada's cultural identity.
For as much as I am not a Trump supporter, he should be championed for Operation Warp Speed -- it was his greatest accomplishment, following a fairly bumbled early response to the pandemic. To his credit though, many (most?) world leaders mishandled the early days and months of the pandemic.
The border closure has impacted those on both sides of the border. There are many Canadian snowbirds who own property in the south, some who chose not to go down this winter, while others who chose to go down, had to either stay in the US, or face rather onerous quarantine restrictions upon their return.
The toughest thing for most Americans to do is consider why someone, especially English-speaking, would not want to be American. It's a complete cultural blind spot.
It's true and I find it to be very arrogant on the part of Americans to be so narrow minded.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2021, 02:06:21 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 01:14:40 PM
I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.
If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.
But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.
Their ability to convince most people to get the vaccine (more than America) was very good. Now their lockdowns into the summer I disagree with. We did some things better, they did other things better.
Quote from: US 41 on July 19, 2021, 11:48:26 PM
The Mexican border has been open for quite a while and you don't have to jump though a bunch of hoops to go either.
I'm not sure the US—Mexican ever actually closed. There was plenty of talk and rumors, but I don't think anything actually changed on the ground.
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 03:29:54 PM
Quote from: US 41 on July 19, 2021, 11:48:26 PM
The Mexican border has been open for quite a while and you don't have to jump though a bunch of hoops to go either.
I'm not sure the US—Mexican ever actually closed. There was plenty of talk and rumors, but I don't think anything actually changed on the ground.
It never did.
The US/Mexico border has been closed to non-essential travelers for about as long as the US/Canada border has been shut:
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/investigations/beyond-the-border/no-official-decision-on-us-mexico-border-reopening-as-latest-extension-expires-wednesday-san-ysidro-business/509-c81145b7-fca6-49d6-9fe0-e5a028719dd5
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 10:40:24 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on July 20, 2021, 10:15:26 AM
Further, IMHO, French Canadians hate English Canadians, and Americans can get mistaken for an English Canadian and get treated in the same shabby manner. In my experience, when Quebeckers know you are an American, their attitude changes totally.
Yeah, Quebecers usually will treat English speaking American's far more favourably than English speaking Canadians.
Similarly, people in France are more likely to be friendly to you if you're American than if you're British. At least, that used to be true.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 03:29:54 PM
Quote from: US 41 on July 19, 2021, 11:48:26 PM
The Mexican border has been open for quite a while and you don't have to jump though a bunch of hoops to go either.
I'm not sure the US—Mexican ever actually closed. There was plenty of talk and rumors, but I don't think anything actually changed on the ground.
It never did.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 03:33:46 PM
The US/Mexico border has been closed to non-essential travelers for about as long as the US/Canada border has been shut:
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/investigations/beyond-the-border/no-official-decision-on-us-mexico-border-reopening-as-latest-extension-expires-wednesday-san-ysidro-business/509-c81145b7-fca6-49d6-9fe0-e5a028719dd5
You may be forgetting that I have my finger on border issues outside this forum. I haven't heard anything on expat forums about people actually being turned away at the border. Yes, the border was supposedly "closed" in March 2020 (the same month I most recently crossed the border) and extended every month since then, but that's only theoretically–at least for US citizens.
The US lets US citizens back in from Mexico.
Mexico isn't stopping US citizens from entering Mexico.
Things are probably different for Mexican citizens and those of other countries crossing that border, but for US citizens nothing has really changed IRL.
My best friends (US citizens with no Mexican visa) are planning to return to their home in Mexico soon–driving across the border and obtaining new tourist cards for everyone in the family and a new vehicle import permit along the way.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 03:33:46 PM
The US/Mexico border has been closed to non-essential travelers for about as long as the US/Canada border has been shut:
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/investigations/beyond-the-border/no-official-decision-on-us-mexico-border-reopening-as-latest-extension-expires-wednesday-san-ysidro-business/509-c81145b7-fca6-49d6-9fe0-e5a028719dd5
I just asked my wife, I'm to understand her family (her Dad several times) has been flying in. Apparently one of friends just schedules doctor visits near the border when she travels by road.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:39:23 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2021, 02:06:21 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 01:14:40 PM
I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.
If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.
But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.
Their ability to convince most people to get the vaccine (more than America) was very good. Now their lockdowns into the summer I disagree with. We did some things better, they did other things better.
What are the percentages or per capita? Because the United States has 10 times the population that Canada does. Canada's entire population is about the same as the population of California.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2021, 02:06:21 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 01:14:40 PM
I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.
If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.
But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.
I'm in BC right now. Things are pretty much wide open. Ontario isn't the entire country.
Ontario had a really strong third wave, it has been slow to reopen. Everything just opened up fully last week. We did fairly well through the first wave last spring, and we managed the fall alright, but our healthcare system was pretty strained for a few months during the spring of 2021
Our conservative premier kind of bumbled the third wave here, and was really pressing to reopen in the winter (not that I blame him), but it was too soon, and the cases went through the roof in March and April.
During April, the Ontario Conservative Party ran television ads and erected billboards blaming Canada's Liberal Prime Minister for the severity of the third wave. That always seemed pretty rich to me.
I think the people of Ontario are getting pretty tired of the covid restrictions, and as such, generally aren't ready to rush to return to normal if it means we are going to have to suffer ill consequences from the virus again in the fall if it isn't properly tamped down now. That's just my two cents at least.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 20, 2021, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:39:23 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2021, 02:06:21 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 01:14:40 PM
I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.
If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.
But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.
Their ability to convince most people to get the vaccine (more than America) was very good. Now their lockdowns into the summer I disagree with. We did some things better, they did other things better.
What are the percentages or per capita? Because the United States has 10 times the population that Canada does. Canada's entire population is about the same as the population of California.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
Charts suggest that Canada has above 50% fully vaccinated vs 48% in US - but a much better future trend as in higher %% of partially vaccinated (who would be fully vaccinated in a few weeks)
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 03:45:36 PM
The US lets US citizens back in from Mexico.
Mexico isn't stopping US citizens from entering Mexico.
There is a pretty fundamental issue with not letting people to re-enter the country of their citizenship.
So if Mexico took more relaxed attitude towards inflow of
US dollars travelers bringing money into the country, that is one thing.
US policy on foreigners entry would likely be uniform across northern and southern borders.
Quote from: kalvado on July 20, 2021, 05:07:02 PM
There is a pretty fundamental issue with not letting people to re-enter the country of their citizenship.
So if Mexico took more relaxed attitude towards inflow of US dollars travelers bringing money into the country, that is one thing.
US policy on foreigners entry would likely be uniform across northern and southern borders.
Your reply implies that you believe tourist money is why Mexico hasn't stopped letting US visitors into their country. I believe you're correct. Why, then, do you assume the US would treat the northern and southern borders equally? Would the US not have unequal interest in preserving the cash flow from one country compared to the other?
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 05:20:45 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 20, 2021, 05:07:02 PM
There is a pretty fundamental issue with not letting people to re-enter the country of their citizenship.
So if Mexico took more relaxed attitude towards inflow of US dollars travelers bringing money into the country, that is one thing.
US policy on foreigners entry would likely be uniform across northern and southern borders.
Your reply implies that you believe tourist money is why Mexico hasn't stopped letting US visitors into their country. I believe you're correct. Why, then, do you assume the US would treat the northern and southern borders equally? Would the US not have unequal interest in preserving the cash flow from one country compared to the other?
US is much less dependent on tourist dollars. And business travel, which is much more important than tourism for US, never really stopped.
Snowbirds could be a bit of a deal, but not really a deal breaker.
Moreover, initial US response - heavily undermined by many factors - was to seal the border and avoid virus spread to begin with, and let all the tourist wait until better times (if those would ever return). Australia/NZ/China example show that it was not impossible. However, original goal was missed - but that isolation trend seems to be conserved.
Honestly speaking, sealing borders (and restricting travel in general) did make sense when infection rates were significantly different across the line; by now this is just knee jerk induced by reading old textbooks as infection is spread out.
The US sealed its borders because the situation in Italy (and then Spain) became an obvious problem.
I flew into the US from Toronto in March of 2020 a few days before Italy shut its borders down, and at that time there were only restrictions about travel from China.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 06:02:40 PM
The US sealed its borders because the situation in Italy (and then Spain) became an obvious problem.
I flew into the US from Toronto in March of 2020 a few days before Italy shut its borders down, and at that time there were only restrictions about travel from China.
That was something they even had in Mexico at the time. Every passenger out of Guadalajara was screened at the security line and asked if they had been to China in the past 14 days.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 06:02:40 PM
The US sealed its borders because the situation in Italy (and then Spain) became an obvious problem.
I flew into the US from Toronto in March of 2020 a few days before Italy shut its borders down, and at that time there were only restrictions about travel from China.
I am more thinking about Diamon Princess passengers situation and a first NY hotspot originating from Iran of all places. For example, CDC and Trump personally wanted to leave known infected people from DP in Japan, but department of state overruled and brought sick folks back. As far as I remember, genetic studies shown that there was a leak and consequent spread from that quarantine. Not that it really changed anything in a long run, though. But infection was seen as "unhygienic chinese" problem with little spread potential in "civilized US", so first pass quarantine measures were less than spectacular.
Talking about arrogance..
I'm late to the thread, but I have a unique perspective / this is a matter of significant personal interest to me, so....
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 19, 2021, 10:09:59 PM
The negative test requirement is stupid. Even stupider that it can't be a rapid test (but I do agree with the vaccine requirement). It's a good first step at least and WAY overdue.
The vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing infection/contagion. There are enough breakthrough cases for the testing requirement to be reasonable until enough people are vaccinated for the disease to settle down to its eventual endemic level.
(My wife and I are currently positive, despite both of us having been fully vaccinated, and my having had COVID last fall. She's got the symptoms of a bad cold. I've got a sniffle and some aches that aren't as bad as the vaccine side effects.)
That being said, the hassle of having to take a COVID test before crossing may mean that I go up less frequently. I still need to research the particulars of filling prescriptions while visiting Canada and bringing the meds back to the US; a couple of prescriptions I was put on in the past couple of months would be less hideously expensive at the pharmacy across the street from my office than the pharmacy we use down here.
Quote from: LM117 on July 20, 2021, 09:18:03 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2021, 09:50:34 PMPolitics aside, the arrogant attitude a lot of Canadians have towards American tourists in general (which has worsened since COVID) has really left a sour taste in my mouth.
I have relatives that live in the Detroit suburbs and they stopped going over before Covid broke out because of that.
Former WWE wrestler Bob Holly also wrote this in his book about going to Canada:
QuoteMontreal is completely the opposite of Australia---there seems to be a lot of rude people in Montreal. Several times when I stopped to ask for directions, the French Canadians just looked at me funny and walked off. I never did like going into Canada, period. Not many of the boys did. It was always such a hassle at customs. We entered other countries without a problem, but getting into Canada could be brutal. They'd take forever with us; it was torture. Any time we worked there, we'd get paid in Canadian dollars, so when the exchange rate was bad, we lost money like crazy. You'd better believe that seeing Canada on the schedule was a real buzzkill.
My current job is based in Montréal, despite my living in Connecticut.
My experience has been completely different. Wonderful people, great food....but you do have to respect the culture, and collectively Americans generally do a lousy job of that. Language is essentially a civil rights thing in Québec. But learning how to apologetically say, "Pardon, je suis American/Americanne. Je ne pas parlez francais" goes a very long way to smoothing things over with Québecois francophones.
I'll admit that there are a few things that the Québec national government (and conversationally recognizing it as a national government and not just a provincial government is part of respecting the culture) does that I disagree with...but I'm a visitor and avoid getting involved beyond the extent necessary for my job.
Heck, part of the intriguing part of my socializing with my Canadian coworkers is coming to realize how much of the fundaments behind my political stances rely on assumptions that don't necessarily translate north of the border...and I won't go into detail on that point due to the rules of the forum. :)
I dated a woman who was an English speaker from Montreal for several years. Listening to her stories about PQ and pretty much the entire dynamic of anyone who wasn't a French speaking being second class was fascinating. The whole thing where Quebec almost voted to spin off into their own country really her up in arms and concerned.
If you want to read a really interesting perspective on Quebec's sovereignty and language politics in general, read "Oh Canada! Oh Quebec!" by Mordecai Richler.
When looking at the cultural stresses around language in Québec, a useful piece of context was that before the 1960's, the professional class in Québec was primarily comprised of anglophones, and the laborer class in Québec was primarily made up of francophones. The social turmoil of the 1960s manifested there approximately around linguistic lines....and yes, I know I'm not doing it justice with that generalization.
Sigh, if only we could go to the US as well. :/
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on July 20, 2021, 09:30:31 PM
When looking at the cultural stresses around language in Québec, a useful piece of context was that before the 1960's, the professional class in Québec was primarily comprised of anglophones, and the laborer class in Québec was primarily made up of francophones. The social turmoil of the 1960s manifested there approximately around linguistic lines....and yes, I know I'm not doing it justice with that generalization.
No, it's a very complicated issue. There is certainly wrong on both sides (there often always is), but certainly the fact that Quebec had an anglophone ruling class has lead to the resentment that lives (lived?) in the residents of Quebec today (and in the recent past).
But... some of the identity politics in Quebec are just plain old us vs. them nationalism, the same force that has led Trump to power in the US in recent years.
And this is grossly glossing over the past as well.
I've actually read quite a lot about the history of Quebec -- though not that recently. It's fascinating to me -- certainly one of the more interesting aspects of Canadian history.
Quote from: andrepoiy on July 20, 2021, 09:34:47 PM
Sigh, if only we could go to the US as well. :/
Only the land border has been closed southbound. There were plenty of folks flying south until Ottawa tightened up the rules for re-entry during the winter.
Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 03:29:54 PM
Quote from: US 41 on July 19, 2021, 11:48:26 PM
The Mexican border has been open for quite a while and you don't have to jump though a bunch of hoops to go either.
I'm not sure the US—Mexican ever actually closed. There was plenty of talk and rumors, but I don't think anything actually changed on the ground.
It might not have. This winter I am planning on taking a trip to Mexico again and I'm looking forward to it.
Quote from: SP Cook on July 20, 2021, 10:15:26 AM
As to "non-essential" travel, really, the country, from what I see on the news and from YouTubers that I trust, remains shut down and thus does not have the tourist infrastructure to make a trip enjoyable.
I share that concern, which Canadians on this forum might be able to address. Canada seems to have had longer and stricter limits on internal (such as inter-provincial) travel than most of the U.S. Travel-related industries in the U.S. have at least partially recovered, with some exceptions such as rental car shortages (from what I hear, since my travels after the pandemic started have been in my own car). But I suspect there has been enough essential business travel in Canada, plus any internal "non-essential" travel, to keep the tourism infrastructure from completely falling apart.
Does that concern apply especially to Ontario, with its prolonged lockdowns? That's one of the two provinces I would like to re-visit this year.
As for comments about the U.S. not rushing to reopen its northern border -- might that be in part out of Administration concerns about keeping our southern border closed (or at least pretending to)? I suspect that the previous administration thought having a closed northern border helped, as a legal matter at least, keep the southern border closed, which is what it really wanted. That might be why the previous administration was unusually cooperative with Canada's desire to restrict cross-border travel (compared to the more blatant disrespect for Canada on other issues).
I can speak for Ontario, tourism industry is returning to normal. Hotels are operating, casinos are open, concerts are returning, baseball is coming back. Most large festivals aren't running this summer in Ontario though -- the CNE, for example, isn't going to occur this August.
Things are pretty normal out west (aside from the obvious fact that BC is burning down). The Calgary Stampede is currently ongoing. Ontario has recently returned to pretty normal (though we still have a mask mandate indoors), and Quebec returned to more or less normal a few weeks before Ontario did.
Ontario had internal border checkpoints through much of the spring. They have since been removed. I drove to Quebec twice while the internal border was technically closed. There were no restrictions heading easterly in Quebec, but there were returning to Ontario. On my first trip west I followed a rural concession road from Quebec back into Ontario which was open without any police presence. On my second trip through, I took the 401 and was directed into the first service centre just west of the border where a uniformed OPP officer waived me through without any questioning. I have an Ontario plate on my vehicle, and I don't think any resident can be denied entry back into their home province for any reason.
Canada's constitution prohibits restrictions to living and conducting business in different provinces, but the language isn't as strong as it is in the US regarding interstate travel. I suspect that the internal border checkpoints are illegal and unconstitutional in Canada much as they would be in the US, but generally most Canadians have been been fairly apathetic to these temporary restrictions.
Meanwhile, and hopefully less controversially, I'm trying to figure out what it takes to actually visit Canada as a fully vaccinated individual. They still require a quarantine plan on file. My hope, if I've read correctly, is that if they tell you that you are required to quarantine (for whatever reason), you can just turn around and head back into the USA and that's that.
Based on the number of BC plates I see here in the Seattle area, I was assuming that Canadians were being allowed into the US but not the other way around. Not until this thread did I realize that both directions were closed. And no, they were not rental cars. There are numerous ways to tell and the vast majority have been personal vehicles.
Earlier in the thread, kphoger and kalvado discussed the idea of money playing a bigger role. I think northern WA communities would have appreciated this sort of approach. Border communities like Sumas and Blaine are total ghost towns. Sumas literally had zero people in it, from what I could see. It was really creepy.
People in Point Roberts, WA will also appreciate the change, as they have largely been relegated to boats for survival.
I thought Point Roberts had been accomodated otherwise.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 21, 2021, 12:48:21 AM
Earlier in the thread, kphoger and kalvado discussed the idea of money playing a bigger role. I think northern WA communities would have appreciated this sort of approach.
If you will, entire response is an attempt to compromise between epidemiologists desire for a complete lockdown and the economic reality of people having to put something on a plate. For most people, food has to come from the outside of their immediate residence...
There is a tremendous amount of data gathered during the entire situation, which will be analyzed in decades to come. One very interesting piece is virus propagation paths.
I didn't follow things closely, but at some point at the beginning of the year, I was stunned with how different was the genetic composition of the virus in Canada vs US, indicating an efficiently sealed border. It is much more uniform right now. Someone would eventually find out if those are intermixing pools or there was some other mechanism at play.
However US vs Mexico are pretty different right now, despite a pretty open border as @kphoger says.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 21, 2021, 12:48:21 AM
Based on the number of BC plates I see here in the Seattle area, I was assuming that Canadians were being allowed into the US ...
Quote from: kalvado on July 21, 2021, 07:14:45 AM
However US vs Mexico are pretty different right now, despite a pretty open border as @kphoger says.
Speaking of which... I think I can count on one hand the number of non-commercial vehicles with Mexican plates I've spotted since March 2020. Granted, I don't live near the border. But I just drove down to Del Rio (TX) and back, as well as Galveston a week later. I saw
much fewer Mexican license plates in and around Del Rio than usual, but not zero. And I saw a Nuevo León license plate on I-45 northbound between Houston and Dallas a couple of weeks ago. Perhaps those have all been 'essential' travelers, but I do wonder.
Interestingly (at least to me) is that I spotted a LOT more dual-plated trucks than usual during my trip to Del Rio. I probably saw a dozen or more dual-plated trucks on that trip, including as far north as the HE Bailey Turnpike.
When I went to Niagara Falls in the middle of the pandemic, although before the stay-at-home order, the Falls were deserted. However, I did see a lot of Toronto-area cars (based on their dealer plate covers). So yeah, there were still internal travellers, but it was still like 1% of the normal number of people there.
Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2021, 06:45:52 AM
I thought Point Roberts had been accomodated otherwise.
I understood there were some other tiny exclaves that were accommodated, but Point Roberts residents never got permission to even transit through Canada, and the local CBSA outpost has been inconsistent in interpreting the definition of "essential" for allowed crossings. (E.g. in one instance a dental emergency was apparently not "essential".)
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2021, 10:50:22 PM
Ontario had internal border checkpoints through much of the spring. They have since been removed. I drove to Quebec twice while the internal border was technically closed. There were no restrictions heading easterly in Quebec, but there were returning to Ontario. On my first trip west I followed a rural concession road from Quebec back into Ontario which was open without any police presence. On my second trip through, I took the 401 and was directed into the first service centre just west of the border where a uniformed OPP officer waived me through without any questioning. I have an Ontario plate on my vehicle, and I don't think any resident can be denied entry back into their home province for any reason.
Canada's constitution prohibits restrictions to living and conducting business in different provinces, but the language isn't as strong as it is in the US regarding interstate travel. I suspect that the internal border checkpoints are illegal and unconstitutional in Canada much as they would be in the US, but generally most Canadians have been been fairly apathetic to these temporary restrictions.
My cousin, a Canadian citizen who lives in Sudbury, Ontario, is currently on a motorcycle trip to the Maritime provinces. He had no problem traversing Ontario and Quebec, but upon entering New Brunswick yesterday, he had a police escort back to the Quebec border. Apparently he didn't fill out his
TPS Report New Brunswick online entrance questionnaire. Once back in Quebec, he filled it out online and had smooth sailing back to Moncton.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on July 21, 2021, 12:02:29 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2021, 06:45:52 AM
I thought Point Roberts had been accomodated otherwise.
I understood there were some other tiny exclaves that were accommodated, but Point Roberts residents never got permission to even transit through Canada, and the local CBSA outpost has been inconsistent in interpreting the definition of "essential" for allowed crossings. (E.g. in one instance a dental emergency was apparently not "essential".)
And at the eastern end of the US/Can Border at Campobello Island, New Brunswick the residents have to drive 80 km through Maine to reach St. Stephen NB.....and it's been a PIA except when a couple of small ferries are operating and can get them direct to the NB mainland.
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/campobello-island-residents-frustrated-by-new-travel-requirements-1.5793754
Campobello NB was the summer home of US President Franklin Roosevelt....
https://www.rooseveltcampobello.org
Quote from: TXtoNJ on July 20, 2021, 04:26:06 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2021, 02:06:21 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 01:14:40 PM
I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.
If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.
But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.
I'm in BC right now. Things are pretty much wide open. Ontario isn't the entire country.
Maybe I should've chosen to use Province rather than Country, but the point still applies. Canada in general stayed shut down or going on with restrictions for much longer than the US. Most of their restrictions this Spring were where the US was last spring. There were very few instances where someone couldn't freely travel around their own state, and few instances where someone couldn't at minimum drive thru other states.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 21, 2021, 02:29:04 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on July 20, 2021, 04:26:06 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2021, 02:06:21 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 01:14:40 PM
I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.
If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.
But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.
I'm in BC right now. Things are pretty much wide open. Ontario isn't the entire country.
Maybe I should've chosen to use Province rather than Country, but the point still applies. Canada in general stayed shut down or going on with restrictions for much longer than the US. Most of their restrictions this Spring were where the US was last spring. There were very few instances where someone couldn't freely travel around their own state, and few instances where someone couldn't at minimum drive thru other states.
One thing for sure - by 2030 or so, there will be a consensus about what should have been done in spring 2020. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Too bad, people had to make urgent decisions on the spot, with incomplete information at hand.
US needs to follow suit
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 21, 2021, 03:16:19 PM
US needs to follow suit
We should, and instead we're delaying until at least 8/21. I'm frankly disgusted.
https://twitter.com/DHSgov/status/1417875283294699520
Quote from: zzcarp on July 21, 2021, 03:33:23 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 21, 2021, 03:16:19 PM
US needs to follow suit
We should, and instead we're delaying until at least 8/21. I'm frankly disgusted.
https://twitter.com/DHSgov/status/1417875283294699520
Chuck Schumer was very vocal about border reopening. Moreover,
QuoteIf an agreement isn't made by July 21, Schumer says the U.S. stands ready to enact a policy allowing vaccinated Canadians to cross into the U.S.
"I today am declaring that it's time for the United States to take action even without the Canadians because they have delayed too long," said Schumer.
https://cnycentral.com/news/local/sen-schumers-push-to-open-the-canadian-border-looks-to-help-destiny-usa
(gigglng)
God dammit Biden :banghead:
If I'm reading this correctly though, as an American, we can enter Canada at the land border just fine. And then they can't deny us re-entry. So Americans can go North and come home. Canadians just can't travel here via land/sea.
Chris
Today, I called the Black Ball Ferry Line (operators of the Port Angeles-Victoria ferry mentioned in the OP) to verify if the ferry service would be restarted by August 9th. The company said that they will not be running ferries until the US reopens their border to Canadians. The Sidney-Anacortes ferry is also closed to cross-border operation, so the only way for me to get to Victoria (which is probably not going to happen at this point) is enter Canada at the Peace Arch/I-5/BC-99 port of entry to then take the Tsawwassen-Swartz Bay ferry. If I did my calculations correctly, the lack of international ferries would add an hour to an hour and a half to a Seattle-Victoria trip.
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 21, 2021, 05:11:55 PM
If I'm reading this correctly though, as an American, we can enter Canada at the land border just fine. And then they can't deny us re-entry. So Americans can go North and come home. Canadians just can't travel here via land/sea.
Chris
Most likely. How would that affect long term relations, especially given Schumer pushing the issue, is a whole different story.
It's disappointing that the U.S. isn't reciprocating the limited reopening of the border. It's not the vaccinated, tested people that Canada is proposing to let in that are going to be carrying lots of Covid, whether original or Delta.
If Americans go north, they might have to quarantine upon return.
Quote from: Alps on July 21, 2021, 12:41:45 AM
Meanwhile, and hopefully less controversially, I'm trying to figure out what it takes to actually visit Canada as a fully vaccinated individual. They still require a quarantine plan on file. My hope, if I've read correctly, is that if they tell you that you are required to quarantine (for whatever reason), you can just turn around and head back into the USA and that's that.
Apparently the Maritimes are still requiring quarantines, even for Canadians, so... we postpone some more.
Ruh roh...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-strike-vote-border-1.6118764 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-strike-vote-border-1.6118764)
Quote from: LM117 on July 27, 2021, 08:46:40 PM
Ruh roh...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-strike-vote-border-1.6118764 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-strike-vote-border-1.6118764)
Dagnabbit. I was just figuring out how to navigate all their rules for entry!
Quote from: LM117 on July 27, 2021, 08:46:40 PM
Ruh roh...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-strike-vote-border-1.6118764 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-strike-vote-border-1.6118764)
yikes
They better sort this out. I'm planning a getaway in a couple weeks with my girlfriend.
Given the wave of unvaccinated and entitled Americans coming their way, I'm pretty sympathetic to their plight.
But the Canadian agents tend to be jerks anyway, so it's a bit conflicting.
Quote from: Bruce on July 28, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Given the wave of unvaccinated and entitled Americans coming their way, I'm pretty sympathetic to their plight.
But the Canadian agents tend to be jerks anyway, so it's a bit conflicting.
Really? I've crossed the border many times (pre Covid) and never had the Canadian agents be anything but polite and professional. Which is more than I can say about the American side.
Quote from: kkt on July 28, 2021, 09:20:28 AM
Quote from: Bruce on July 28, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Given the wave of unvaccinated and entitled Americans coming their way, I'm pretty sympathetic to their plight.
But the Canadian agents tend to be jerks anyway, so it's a bit conflicting.
Really? I've crossed the border many times (pre Covid) and never had the Canadian agents be anything but polite and professional. Which is more than I can say about the American side.
I've had much worse interactions with the Canadian side than the U.S. On a road trip in college, got pulled out of the car and made sit for two hours while they scoured the car, presumably for drugs (despite my posts in the man-card thread, I had never touched a drug other than alcohol or caffeine until I was 33). Flying through Vancouver on the way to Hong Kong I got pulled into secondary and tertiary screenings because they couldn't believe a 27 year old guy would fly to Hong Kong through Canada for vacation for four days. The cheapest fare was on Air Canada. Maybe they just didn't want me to fly that airline. I was in an isolation room for about an hour by myself before they talked to me. Luckily I had a six hour layover due to a delayed flight.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 09:56:57 AM
Quote from: kkt on July 28, 2021, 09:20:28 AM
Quote from: Bruce on July 28, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Given the wave of unvaccinated and entitled Americans coming their way, I'm pretty sympathetic to their plight.
But the Canadian agents tend to be jerks anyway, so it's a bit conflicting.
Really? I've crossed the border many times (pre Covid) and never had the Canadian agents be anything but polite and professional. Which is more than I can say about the American side.
I've had much worse interactions with the Canadian side than the U.S. On a road trip in college, got pulled out of the car and made sit for two hours while they scoured the car, presumably for drugs (despite my posts in the man-card thread, I had never touched a drug other than alcohol or caffeine until I was 33). Flying through Vancouver on the way to Hong Kong I got pulled into secondary and tertiary screenings because they couldn't believe a 27 year old guy would fly to Hong Kong through Canada for vacation for four days. The cheapest fare was on Air Canada. Maybe they just didn't want me to fly that airline. I was in an isolation room for about an hour by myself before they talked to me. Luckily I had a six hour layover due to a delayed flight.
Chris
Wow. Until 2020, I'd crossed the land border with Canada at least once each year since 1978. A couple times they had us stop to pay duty on things we were importing, and my first solo trip to Canada as an almost 18-year-old, they wanted to see I had cash and cards (obviously worried I'd join their generous welfare system). Otherwise, it's always been two to four questions and a wave on with no delay.
Contrast that to the American guards who have searched my car one year and another year threatened to steal my butter tarts if I hadn't declared them.
Quote from: zzcarp on July 28, 2021, 10:15:24 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 09:56:57 AM
Quote from: kkt on July 28, 2021, 09:20:28 AM
Quote from: Bruce on July 28, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Given the wave of unvaccinated and entitled Americans coming their way, I'm pretty sympathetic to their plight.
But the Canadian agents tend to be jerks anyway, so it's a bit conflicting.
Really? I've crossed the border many times (pre Covid) and never had the Canadian agents be anything but polite and professional. Which is more than I can say about the American side.
I've had much worse interactions with the Canadian side than the U.S. On a road trip in college, got pulled out of the car and made sit for two hours while they scoured the car, presumably for drugs (despite my posts in the man-card thread, I had never touched a drug other than alcohol or caffeine until I was 33). Flying through Vancouver on the way to Hong Kong I got pulled into secondary and tertiary screenings because they couldn't believe a 27 year old guy would fly to Hong Kong through Canada for vacation for four days. The cheapest fare was on Air Canada. Maybe they just didn't want me to fly that airline. I was in an isolation room for about an hour by myself before they talked to me. Luckily I had a six hour layover due to a delayed flight.
Chris
Wow. Until 2020, I'd crossed the land border with Canada at least once each year since 1978. A couple times they had us stop to pay duty on things we were importing, and my first solo trip to Canada as an almost 18-year-old, they wanted to see I had cash and cards (obviously worried I'd join their generous welfare system). Otherwise, it's always been two to four questions and a wave on with no delay.
Contrast that to the American guards who have searched my car one year and another year threatened to steal my butter tarts if I hadn't declared them.
I've been to 66 countries and crossed the border back and forth to Canada something like 10 times, and I've never once had an issue with an American border agent. YMMV obviously.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 10:19:00 AM
Quote from: zzcarp on July 28, 2021, 10:15:24 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 09:56:57 AM
Quote from: kkt on July 28, 2021, 09:20:28 AM
Quote from: Bruce on July 28, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Given the wave of unvaccinated and entitled Americans coming their way, I'm pretty sympathetic to their plight.
But the Canadian agents tend to be jerks anyway, so it's a bit conflicting.
Really? I've crossed the border many times (pre Covid) and never had the Canadian agents be anything but polite and professional. Which is more than I can say about the American side.
I've had much worse interactions with the Canadian side than the U.S. On a road trip in college, got pulled out of the car and made sit for two hours while they scoured the car, presumably for drugs (despite my posts in the man-card thread, I had never touched a drug other than alcohol or caffeine until I was 33). Flying through Vancouver on the way to Hong Kong I got pulled into secondary and tertiary screenings because they couldn't believe a 27 year old guy would fly to Hong Kong through Canada for vacation for four days. The cheapest fare was on Air Canada. Maybe they just didn't want me to fly that airline. I was in an isolation room for about an hour by myself before they talked to me. Luckily I had a six hour layover due to a delayed flight.
Chris
Wow. Until 2020, I'd crossed the land border with Canada at least once each year since 1978. A couple times they had us stop to pay duty on things we were importing, and my first solo trip to Canada as an almost 18-year-old, they wanted to see I had cash and cards (obviously worried I'd join their generous welfare system). Otherwise, it's always been two to four questions and a wave on with no delay.
Contrast that to the American guards who have searched my car one year and another year threatened to steal my butter tarts if I hadn't declared them.
I've been to 66 countries and crossed the border back and forth to Canada something like 10 times, and I've never once had an issue with an American border agent. YMMV obviously.
Chris
In 2008, my brother and I went to New York for New Years to watch the ball drop. Great experience, but never want to freeze my butt off like that again. We made a tip out of going there from Texas by driving to Detroit, crossing there, driving through Toronto and Montreal and come down to New York. We crossed at the I-89 crossing in St. Albans, VT and the lady on the American side was just trying to start something. She asked why we were crossing from Quebec into Vermont if we had Texas license plates. I said something along the lines of because we can. I told her about our trip and when we were doing and she said "why would you do that? Isn't there New Years Eve in Texas?" Took me years to just realize she was unhappy with her own life.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 28, 2021, 11:44:07 AM
I told her about our trip and when we were doing and she said "why would you do that? Isn't there New Years Eve in Texas?" Took me years to just realize she was unhappy with her own life.
If you had been driving to, say, Concord for New Year's, that question would at least make a little more sense. But the ball drop in New York is a rather well-known thing that people commonly travel to from out of the area.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 28, 2021, 11:44:07 AM
She asked why we were crossing from Quebec into Vermont if we had Texas license plates. I said something along the lines of because we can.
Boy, you really made sure to start off on the right foot, there.
Quote from: kphoger on July 28, 2021, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 28, 2021, 11:44:07 AM
She asked why we were crossing from Quebec into Vermont if we had Texas license plates. I said something along the lines of because we can.
Boy, you really made sure to start off on the right foot, there.
Yeah, I've had some say something like "You really just went to Kyrgyzstan for three days? Why?" and I just cheerfully say "I found a really cheap airfare, hadn't been there before, and felt like going." They do a little clickity-clack on the keyboard and say "Welcome home". Attitude matters.
Chris
Tip for anybody going to Canada on a regular basis: the NEXUS pass is a great way to avoid incessant questions. I'm only ever asked how long I'm going to be in Canada. Then they let me through.
Quote from: Bruce on July 28, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Given the wave of unvaccinated...Americans coming their way
I was under the impression that you had to prove vaccinated status to get in.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 28, 2021, 12:26:27 PM
Tip for anybody going to Canada on a regular basis: the NEXUS pass is a great way to avoid incessant questions. I'm only ever asked how long I'm going to be in Canada. Then they let me through.
Quote from: Bruce on July 28, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Given the wave of unvaccinated...Americans coming their way
I was under the impression that you had to prove vaccinated status to get in.
You do have to prove vaccinated status (https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/covid-vaccinated-travellers-entering-canada#determine-fully) to get to Canada as of August 9. There's no "wave of unvaccinated Americans coming their way".
Quote from: zzcarp on July 28, 2021, 01:18:16 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 28, 2021, 12:26:27 PM
Tip for anybody going to Canada on a regular basis: the NEXUS pass is a great way to avoid incessant questions. I'm only ever asked how long I'm going to be in Canada. Then they let me through.
Quote from: Bruce on July 28, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Given the wave of unvaccinated...Americans coming their way
I was under the impression that you had to prove vaccinated status to get in.
You do have to prove vaccinated status (https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/covid-vaccinated-travellers-entering-canada#determine-fully) to get to Canada as of August 9. There's no "wave of unvaccinated Americans coming their way".
There's also plenty of stupid Americans who would show up unvaccinated and be confused why they couldn't get in. No difference than the people that were shocked, SHOCKED, when they had to have a mask to enter my restaurant when we reopened after the first lockdown.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 01:40:34 PM
No difference than the people that were shocked, SHOCKED, when they had to have a mask to enter my restaurant when we reopened after the first lockdown.
Were shocked, or
acted shocked?
Quote from: kphoger on July 28, 2021, 02:11:20 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 01:40:34 PM
No difference than the people that were shocked, SHOCKED, when they had to have a mask to enter my restaurant when we reopened after the first lockdown.
Were shocked, or acted shocked?
Had I possessed a cattle prod at the time...
Chris
Quote from: jakeroot on July 28, 2021, 12:26:27 PM
Tip for anybody going to Canada on a regular basis: the NEXUS pass is a great way to avoid incessant questions. I'm only ever asked how long I'm going to be in Canada. Then they let me through.
Of course, for that it helps to cross often enough to make getting NEXUS worthwhile (I think that threshold is about twice a year, given what I've heard from people on it). For me who hasn't been across since 2014 and was only averaging once every couple years even before plans started falling through with disappointing regularity, it's probably not practical and would just raise more eyebrows. Plus it's sad that now one has to pay and have a background check just to have things be the way they were for everyone before 9/11.
I once had to go through secondary entering Canada (just another round of questioning, no search; only took 15 minutes), but that crossing aside, I tend to get grilled more coming back into the US. The last time the guy grilled me at length about why I was working in transportation planning for the state despite having a computer science degree.
Just for the record I've never had any problems at the US Canada border, either way.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 28, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
Just for the record I've never had any problems at the US Canada border, either way.
Wait until you're in your mid 20's and traveling alone. Then you might look more "dangerous".
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 28, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
Just for the record I've never had any problems at the US Canada border, either way.
Wait until you're in your mid 20's and traveling alone. Then you might look more "dangerous".
Chris
Or like me and you shave your head, not because it's fashionable, but because you are bald.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 28, 2021, 03:52:35 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 28, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
Just for the record I've never had any problems at the US Canada border, either way.
Wait until you're in your mid 20's and traveling alone. Then you might look more "dangerous".
Chris
Or like me and you shave your head, not because it's fashionable, but because you are bald.
I heard some horror stories of crossing US border while looking middle Asian...
Entering the US I'm thinking most of all of a time my wife (at the time) and I were bringing a Canadian guy with us to visit for a few days. He had his Canadian driver's license and he was in the military so he had his Canadian armed forces ID. The US guard got down about two inches from his face yelled at him like he was inspired by the worst drill sergeant in any movie. After yelling at him for about five minutes, he passed us all through. WTF? Our friend explained later that it might have been that his military ID said "Reserves", which in the US means it's a part-time job unless called up, but in Canada can mean newly joined the armed forces and not yet eligible for overseas posting. Fine, but that doesn't explain the yelling in the face part. If he was genuinely concerned, send him for secondary inspection so someone with a clue can find out that he does indeed have a full-time job in Canada. Don't just pass him on if he's genuinely suspicious. And on the other hand, yelling in his face for five minutes doesn't make him any safer to admit if he was actually coming to the US to enjoy our generous universal health care.
I think it is more to do with the guard being a racist SOB because our friend was of Asian ancestry, and the guard was taking his frustrations out by yelling at people he perceived as low status.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 28, 2021, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: Bruce on July 28, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Given the wave of unvaccinated...Americans coming their way
I was under the impression that you had to prove vaccinated status to get in.
Never said they would be successful in crossing. I will definitely be looking forward to watching them try.
And yeah, I have a feeling that my ethnicity is a huge factor in why I've been treated poorly by Canadian border agents. It always took a little longer when part of a busload from Seattle to clear me, perhaps because my name doesn't match my face all that well.
Quote from: Bruce on July 29, 2021, 02:09:49 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 28, 2021, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: Bruce on July 28, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Given the wave of unvaccinated...Americans coming their way
I was under the impression that you had to prove vaccinated status to get in.
Never said they would be successful in crossing. I will definitely be looking forward to watching them try.
I certainly hope it's a rare occurrence. The primary inspection lanes already take forever. I cannot imagine the mess if every other car is getting turned away. On a positive note, most cars crossing the border, from my fairly extensive in-person experience, seem to be of BC origin, so hopefully the border remains quiet anyways.
I have just learned that NEXUS lanes are still closed along the whole WA border, so even if I wanted to avoid dealing with morons, I am not able to. Yikes. I will report back in a couple weeks. Hopefully at least one of the crossings will reopen NEXUS services.
Only had one issue with Canadian border officers, and that was when I was with someone from MTQ who had cleared our crossings beforehand (NYSDOT was coming up with a strategic plan for ITS at the crossings). This guy threw a fit for ten minutes and then finally called his boss. He then came crawling to us saying he hoped we wouldn't mention his behavior to anyone.
My problem with U.S. border people is it looks like they're armed to the hilt with body armor. Not very welcoming compared to the Canadians.
Speaking of the border, that reminds me of some clips about the St.Regis/Akwasasne Indian reverse who's on 2 sides of the border.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_aDqHCYwxc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ-Q9zL_P2Y
And some buildings built right on the border at Stanstead and Derby Line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgmDGm_8Xr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0EIG5ZsoL4
Along with some others locations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mURgzLiy0DA
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: zzcarp on July 28, 2021, 01:18:16 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 28, 2021, 12:26:27 PM
Tip for anybody going to Canada on a regular basis: the NEXUS pass is a great way to avoid incessant questions. I'm only ever asked how long I'm going to be in Canada. Then they let me through.
Quote from: Bruce on July 28, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Given the wave of unvaccinated...Americans coming their way
I was under the impression that you had to prove vaccinated status to get in.
You do have to prove vaccinated status (https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/covid-vaccinated-travellers-entering-canada#determine-fully) to get to Canada as of August 9. There's no "wave of unvaccinated Americans coming their way".
There's also plenty of stupid Americans who would show up unvaccinated and be confused why they couldn't get in. No difference than the people that were shocked, SHOCKED, when they had to have a mask to enter my restaurant when we reopened after the first lockdown.
Chris
This. The Canadian border agents certainly
are going to have "a wave of unvaccinated Americans" coming their way.
Another thing that's going to trip up those Americans trying to go to Canada is the pre-arrival negative COVID test requirement. I myself will likely delay any trips north of the border until that changes.
Quote from: kalvado on July 28, 2021, 05:24:43 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 28, 2021, 03:52:35 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 28, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
Just for the record I've never had any problems at the US Canada border, either way.
Wait until you're in your mid 20's and traveling alone. Then you might look more "dangerous".
Chris
Or like me and you shave your head, not because it's fashionable, but because you are bald.
I heard some horror stories of crossing US border while looking middle Asian...
This. It's 100% legal to racially/ethnically profile at the border, so both sides do it. At the beginning of the pandemic, I was crossing with a South Asian and an East Asian in line in front of me (was taking a bus to Vancouver). Both of them were absolutely grilled - the East Asian specifically about whether or not he had been to China recently. I figured I was in for rough treatment as well.
Turns out, they're pretty nice if you've got a Canadian passport. They just wanted to know how long I'd be staying. I'm a dual, so I can also say that US CBP is very polite when you've got a US passport.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on July 29, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: kalvado on July 28, 2021, 05:24:43 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 28, 2021, 03:52:35 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 28, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
Just for the record I've never had any problems at the US Canada border, either way.
Wait until you're in your mid 20's and traveling alone. Then you might look more "dangerous".
Chris
Or like me and you shave your head, not because it's fashionable, but because you are bald.
I heard some horror stories of crossing US border while looking middle Asian...
This. It's 100% legal to racially/ethnically profile at the border, so both sides do it. At the beginning of the pandemic, I was crossing with a South Asian and an East Asian in line in front of me (was taking a bus to Vancouver). Both of them were absolutely grilled - the East Asian specifically about whether or not he had been to China recently. I figured I was in for rough treatment as well.
Turns out, they're pretty nice if you've got a Canadian passport. They just wanted to know how long I'd be staying. I'm a dual, so I can also say that US CBP is very polite when you've got a US passport.
I don't know. In all my border crossings, I have been grilled the most by US agents while being an American Citizen (of course with a US passport).
Quote from: Rothman on July 29, 2021, 07:04:31 AM
My problem with U.S. border people is it looks like they're armed to the hilt with body armor. Not very welcoming compared to the Canadians.
I find that comment rather amusing–considering that, while crossing the border into Mexico, I've had my vehicle searched by soldiers wearing full-body camo, black face masks, and semi-automatic rifles. So, for me, having my passport run by a CBP agent wearing a polo shirt and holstered pistol is a few steps
up the 'welcoming' ladder.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 29, 2021, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on July 29, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: kalvado on July 28, 2021, 05:24:43 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 28, 2021, 03:52:35 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 28, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
Just for the record I've never had any problems at the US Canada border, either way.
Wait until you're in your mid 20's and traveling alone. Then you might look more "dangerous".
Chris
Or like me and you shave your head, not because it's fashionable, but because you are bald.
I heard some horror stories of crossing US border while looking middle Asian...
This. It's 100% legal to racially/ethnically profile at the border, so both sides do it. At the beginning of the pandemic, I was crossing with a South Asian and an East Asian in line in front of me (was taking a bus to Vancouver). Both of them were absolutely grilled - the East Asian specifically about whether or not he had been to China recently. I figured I was in for rough treatment as well.
Turns out, they're pretty nice if you've got a Canadian passport. They just wanted to know how long I'd be staying. I'm a dual, so I can also say that US CBP is very polite when you've got a US passport.
I don't know. In all my border crossings, I have been grilled the most by US agents while being an American Citizen (of course with a US passport).
The northern border and the southern border are two different worlds.
Quote from: RothmanMy problem with U.S. border people is it looks like they're armed to the hilt with body armor. Not very welcoming compared to the Canadians.
Well, yeah, you can't have a US Government agency without a corrupt handout to weapons manufacturers.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on July 29, 2021, 11:28:29 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 29, 2021, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on July 29, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: kalvado on July 28, 2021, 05:24:43 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 28, 2021, 03:52:35 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 28, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
Just for the record I've never had any problems at the US Canada border, either way.
Wait until you're in your mid 20's and traveling alone. Then you might look more "dangerous".
Chris
Or like me and you shave your head, not because it's fashionable, but because you are bald.
I heard some horror stories of crossing US border while looking middle Asian...
This. It's 100% legal to racially/ethnically profile at the border, so both sides do it. At the beginning of the pandemic, I was crossing with a South Asian and an East Asian in line in front of me (was taking a bus to Vancouver). Both of them were absolutely grilled - the East Asian specifically about whether or not he had been to China recently. I figured I was in for rough treatment as well.
Turns out, they're pretty nice if you've got a Canadian passport. They just wanted to know how long I'd be staying. I'm a dual, so I can also say that US CBP is very polite when you've got a US passport.
I don't know. In all my border crossings, I have been grilled the most by US agents while being an American Citizen (of course with a US passport).
The northern border and the southern border are two different worlds.
I wasn't talking about the southern border. I have it in my head to ignore what goes on there as to being specific to that region. When I made that comment about being grilled by US agents, I was talking about coming back from Canada and coming back from Europe. Every time I come back to the US from those places I get the third degree. Probably far worse than coming back from Mexico, because at least at that border, I am so pathetically pale skinned they realize I must be a US citizen.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 29, 2021, 11:36:18 AM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on July 29, 2021, 11:28:29 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 29, 2021, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on July 29, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: kalvado on July 28, 2021, 05:24:43 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 28, 2021, 03:52:35 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on July 28, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 28, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
Just for the record I've never had any problems at the US Canada border, either way.
Wait until you're in your mid 20's and traveling alone. Then you might look more "dangerous".
Chris
Or like me and you shave your head, not because it's fashionable, but because you are bald.
I heard some horror stories of crossing US border while looking middle Asian...
This. It's 100% legal to racially/ethnically profile at the border, so both sides do it. At the beginning of the pandemic, I was crossing with a South Asian and an East Asian in line in front of me (was taking a bus to Vancouver). Both of them were absolutely grilled - the East Asian specifically about whether or not he had been to China recently. I figured I was in for rough treatment as well.
Turns out, they're pretty nice if you've got a Canadian passport. They just wanted to know how long I'd be staying. I'm a dual, so I can also say that US CBP is very polite when you've got a US passport.
I don't know. In all my border crossings, I have been grilled the most by US agents while being an American Citizen (of course with a US passport).
The northern border and the southern border are two different worlds.
I wasn't talking about the southern border. I have it in my head to ignore what goes on there as to being specific to that region. When I made that comment about being grilled by US agents, I was talking about coming back from Canada and coming back from Europe. Every time I come back to the US from those places I get the third degree. Probably far worse than coming back from Mexico, because at least at that border, I am so pathetically pale skinned they realize I must be a US citizen.
I'd be interested to know what you mean by the "third degree".
Quote from: kphoger on July 29, 2021, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 29, 2021, 07:04:31 AM
My problem with U.S. border people is it looks like they're armed to the hilt with body armor. Not very welcoming compared to the Canadians.
I find that comment rather amusing–considering that, while crossing the border into Mexico, I've had my vehicle searched by soldiers wearing full-body camo, black face masks, and semi-automatic rifles. So, for me, having my passport run by a CBP agent wearing a polo shirt and holstered pistol is a few steps up the 'welcoming' ladder.
US CBP personnel at the I-95 and I-81 crossings were definitely more geared up than a polo shirt and sidearm last I crossed (late 2019). Got my car quickly searched at I-81, as a matter of fact. Like I said, body armor was worn and I believe they had long guns rather than just handguns.
But...no black masks. :D
I have never had anything but a polite and/or pleasant experience with either CBSA or UK Border Force.
US CBP on the other hand has been much more of a hassle for me. Entering the US at Rouses Point I got about 20 minutes worth of questioning about every detail of my life, with a second officer standing on the passenger side of my car with a rifle and a dog. Also got an intense (and highly inappropriate) grilling at Highgate Springs when returning from Montreal with a group of friends in college, because one of them was an Asian woman. She was horrified by the experience. And returning to the US via Logan Airport has always involved a lot more questioning than entering via a land crossing. One agent couldn't wrap his head around why I had traveled to Europe during what should be the school year if I'm a college student (my school was on a weird schedule, not that he seemed to believe me).
Amusingly the times I traveled with my mother CBSA and UKBF never batted an eye at her being unemployed, but US CBP always seemed to find it suspicious. You'd think it would have been the other way around, with Canada or the UK concerned about her overstaying, but they never even asked to see a return ticket or anything, and it was never an issue until we got back to the States.
Aside from the one time I went to secondary (and even then, it was only 15 minutes and they were reasonably polite), it's always been easy with CBSA. US CBP, on the other hand is more mixed. I've had a crossing that was so easy it was like it used to be in the 90s, one with a group with only a little questioning about the trip and what people were bringing back (understandable, still quite quick), one where they grilled me about the trip and stuff, and then the one where they grilled me at length about my employment (why do they care? I'm a US citizen!). The only correlation I can find is that the crossings where I've used my enhanced driver's license rather than my passport tend to go quicker and smoother. I think they just keep asking questions as they flip through every single page in the passport book; nothing to flip through with a license!
I recall at least once coming back south through the border getting jokingly-harrassed by CBP for having an entire Costco-sized cardbox box full of Aux Tomates (from the Burnaby Costco, no less). I prefer the Canadian recipe, so I always bring some back with me. My mistake was having the rear parcel shelf under the false floor (normally it's attached to the hatch and hides the rear contents), allowing him to see it. Trying to explain a massive box of ketchup was not easy, but it turned light-hearted pretty quick and he told me a story of his kids having Canadian Heinz ketchup for the first time and also enjoying it.
I am continuing to regularly see BC plates. I saw at least two yesterday, and have seen at least one almost everyday for as long as I can remember. Most of the drivers are just younger people (primarily couples but a few by themselves as well) seemingly on vacation.
Quote from: LM117 on July 27, 2021, 08:46:40 PM
Ruh roh...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-strike-vote-border-1.6118764 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-strike-vote-border-1.6118764)
Border officers have begun work-to-rule action.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/border-workers-work-to-rule-begins-1.6131898 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/border-workers-work-to-rule-begins-1.6131898)
Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2021, 01:36:51 PM
I am continuing to regularly see BC plates. I saw at least two yesterday, and have seen at least one almost everyday for as long as I can remember. Most of the drivers are just younger people (primarily couples but a few by themselves as well) seemingly on vacation.
I've seen BC plates around as well and actually saw an
Alberta plate last week. I've got to assume these people have American citizenship or something.
I've currently got a trip to Canada planned for the end of the month, so if that actually happens, I'll be sure to let everyone here know how the crossing goes in both directions.
A tentative agreement (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/border-guards-tentative-deal-1.6133262) has been reached between the union and CBSA after only a few hours of strike action.
Some highlights of the border backups:
https://twitter.com/wsdot_traffic/status/1423763837128302593
https://twitter.com/Asmodeus_Lucem/status/1423807211608870912
So the border is on track to open on Monday?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 07, 2021, 12:03:16 AM
So the border is on track to open on Monday?
Yes, according to this article I just read: https://bangordailynews.com/2021/08/07/news/canada-border-employees-reach-deal-with-government-preventing-reopening-delays/
Near the bottom of the article:
Quote from: Bangor Daily News
Despite an increase in COVID-19 cases in the U.S. and concerns regarding the Delta variant, Canada's Aug. 9 reopening date is still on track, Canadian Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam confirmed in a press conference held on Thursday.
The land border is still going to be a mess on Monday. Watching a couple of news reports......there's a lot of people that just haven't looked at the requirements such as the pre-arrival testing, fully vaccinated for 14 days and uploading all that information to the ArriveCAN App before you get to the border. Then there's those Canadians that think it's open southbound too and are just going to get turned around and sent back by US CBP.....adding to the line-up.
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 07, 2021, 08:08:08 AM
The land border is still going to be a mess on Monday. Watching a couple of news reports......there's a lot of people that just haven't looked at the requirements such as the pre-arrival testing, fully vaccinated for 14 days and uploading all that information to the ArriveCAN App before you get to the border. Then there's those Canadians that think it's open southbound too and are just going to get turned around and sent back by US CBP.....adding to the line-up.
The "work to rule" union action didn't help things, either, but have to say I sided with the union on that one.
The truck queues at the Canada border remind me of people camping at Micro Centers days ahead of launch day to buy RTX 3000 series GPUs.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 07, 2021, 12:03:16 AM
So the border is on track to open on Monday?
There were no plans to delay the reopening due to the strike. Had the strike continued, people would have just had to wait in long lines.
Most of them are essential employees, so they aren't allowed to just walk out. It's not like the border shut down when they were on strike. Instead, they were painstakingly checking everything to the max, drawing everything out. The reason why "work to rule" works as a strike tactic is because rules are inevitably written in a way that following them to the letter is impractical in the real world. Thus, they strike by actually following them to the letter, and letting all hell break loose as a result.
The border has been opened to vaccinated Americans, who, closer to the time of opening, needed to wait for as much as seven hours in some places/times, according to Business Insider. Some three weeks ago, I cancelled my trip to Washington State and Victoria, BC mentioned in the OP.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on August 10, 2021, 12:11:06 PM
The border has been opened to vaccinated Americans, who are willing to wait for as much as seven hours in some places/times, according to Business Insider. Some three weeks ago, I cancelled my trip to Washington State and Victoria, BC mentioned in the OP.
Current delays for non-commercial to Canada:
Calais: 45 min.
T.I. Bridge: 10 min.
Q-L Bridge: 2 min.
Rainbow: 5 min.
Peace: 6 min.
Abbotsford/Sumas: 5 min.
All others: No delay.
Here is the article I mentioned in my above post https://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-long-lines-to-canada-border-reopens-travel-ban-lifts-2021-8 (https://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-long-lines-to-canada-border-reopens-travel-ban-lifts-2021-8)
This supposed seven hour wait was at International Falls. If I did pursue my trip, my crossing point would have been the Peace Arch point of entry.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on August 10, 2021, 12:46:06 PM
Here is the article I mentioned in my above post https://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-long-lines-to-canada-border-reopens-travel-ban-lifts-2021-8 (https://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-long-lines-to-canada-border-reopens-travel-ban-lifts-2021-8)
This supposed seven hour wait was at International Falls. If I did pursue my trip, my crossing point would have been the Peace Arch point of entry.
Current wait time, U.S. to Canada, International Falls: None, for all traffic.
All per CBSA.
I have the wait times pulled up here as I've been typing: https://travel.gc.ca/returning/border-times (https://travel.gc.ca/returning/border-times). As expected, the opening rush is over, as over 36 hours have passed. In my earlier post, I erroneously referred to the present tense (pasting the message I meant to post the other night until my internet went down for two days). The B.I. article says this about International Falls on a normal day, which as of right now appears to be true:
QuoteFort Frances, Ontario, and International Falls, Minnesota – an area that the site [CBSA] said "rarely experiences delays".
Of course, August 9th wasn't exactly a 'normal day' at the world's largest land border.
My initial thought when seeing how delayed the lines were
at first, I was thinking to myself: "Sure glad I cancelled my trip", though my entry would have been about 24 hours after me typing this, so I would have been good to go (I did my research on how to get in to the country).
Quote from: ozarkman417 on August 10, 2021, 12:46:06 PM
If I did pursue my trip, my crossing point would have been the Peace Arch point of entry.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on August 10, 2021, 01:44:57 PM
My initial thought when seeing how delayed the lines were at first, I was thinking to myself: "Sure glad I cancelled my trip", though my entry would have been about 24 hours after me typing this, so I would have been good to go (I did my research on how to get in to the country).
The longest wait time I saw at the Peace Arch on August 9th was 25 minutes, which is considerably less than the usual peak delay was on busy summer days pre-pandemic. The cameras didn't even show the line backing up beyond the customs plaza. Needless to say any fears of a delay on your trip were unfounded.
My dad is heading for the Sault Ste Marie crossing tomorrow afternoon. He just received his negative test results and is uploading this as the last of the information to the ArriveCAN app.
On Monday, the Sault was one of the longer wait times at 3 hours in the afternoon. Today it was back down to no waiting.
I'll pass on anything interesting my dad experiences when crossing tomorrow.
I'll be heading that way on August 21.
Quote from: zzcarp on August 11, 2021, 12:09:21 AM
I'll pass on anything interesting my dad experiences when crossing tomorrow.
I'll be heading that way on August 21.
I'd be interested to know if they actually ask about the quarantine plan of if it's basically a non-issue.
I went to Vancouver, BC, on Monday. I did wait about an hour at Peace Arch.
I had a quarantine plan on the app, but the border patrol agent never asked or even looked at the app. We just showed our passport, CDC vaccination card, and a negative test I had from Friday.
Returned the same day at around midnight. As usual, I always get a dick US border patrol agent. He was bored and searched our vehicle and said that an orange that we brought from Seattle (that we did declare to Canadian BP) could 'cost us dearly' next time.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on August 11, 2021, 01:57:25 AM
I went to Vancouver, BC, on Monday. I did wait about an hour at Peace Arch.
I had a quarantine plan on the app, but the border patrol agent never asked or even looked at the app. We just showed our passport, CDC vaccination card, and a negative test I had from Friday.
Returned the same day at around midnight. As usual, I always get a dick US border patrol agent. He was bored and searched our vehicle and said that an orange that we brought from Seattle (that we did declare to Canadian BP) could 'cost us dearly' next time.
Thank you for the report! That doesn't sound bad at all. Where did you get your Covid test?
Quote from: kkt on August 11, 2021, 02:35:05 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on August 11, 2021, 01:57:25 AM
I went to Vancouver, BC, on Monday. I did wait about an hour at Peace Arch.
I had a quarantine plan on the app, but the border patrol agent never asked or even looked at the app. We just showed our passport, CDC vaccination card, and a negative test I had from Friday.
Returned the same day at around midnight. As usual, I always get a dick US border patrol agent. He was bored and searched our vehicle and said that an orange that we brought from Seattle (that we did declare to Canadian BP) could 'cost us dearly' next time.
Thank you for the report! That doesn't sound bad at all. Where did you get your Covid test?
The covid test site on Aurora. Did it after work on Friday. It is one of the approved testing methods. Make sure you do it within 72 hours of crossing the border. Fortunately, it's now a self-issue test to pick your nose; no more sadistic nurse picking your brain.
I was vaccinated in March, and I've been going bouldering and clubbing regularly so I'm surprised I tested negative.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210811/10636d4a1e714bbe44b01d32b672cc9f.jpg)
Had a crazy weekend. Camped near Sequim on Saturday. Sunday, did a 17 mile hike in the Olympics. Took the last ferry to Seattle.
Woke up at 5 am on Monday to go to the border. Did a hike/climb in Squamish and spent the evening in Vancouver. Crossed back into Blaine around midnight and had a tiring day at work today.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210811/68dfad62928ba49abf6931204dfb95d6.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210811/2d503c5f5cee7f94a9522c532414a848.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210811/2e60640dfbe3102dacdb2555e2fdb9ec.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210811/2d966454fdda31b50cffb530d5babc5e.jpg)
iPhone
My girlfriend and I have a COVID test scheduled for this Friday morning at the Boeing Facility in Auburn, in preparation for our crossing Sunday, 15 August.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on August 11, 2021, 02:47:15 AM
The covid test site on Aurora. Did it after work on Friday. It is one of the approved testing methods. Make sure you do it within 72 hours of crossing the border.
How quickly did your results come in? We specifically scheduled the test to allow 48 hours for results.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 11, 2021, 02:49:54 AM
My girlfriend and I have a COVID test scheduled for this Friday morning at the Boeing Facility in Auburn, in preparation for our crossing Sunday, 15 August.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on August 11, 2021, 02:47:15 AM
The covid test site on Aurora. Did it after work on Friday. It is one of the approved testing methods. Make sure you do it within 72 hours of crossing the border.
How quickly did your results come in? We specifically scheduled the test to allow 48 hours for results.
Literally Saturday morning. And I got tested right before they closed on Friday on my way to a party lol.
iPhone
Quote from: KEK Inc. on August 11, 2021, 01:57:25 AM
I had a quarantine plan on the app, but the border patrol agent never asked or even looked at the app. We just showed our passport, CDC vaccination card, and a negative test I had from Friday.
What'd you put as your quarantine plan? I'm toying with the idea of heading to Canada, but I'm not sure what I could say except "head back to the US" or "book a hotel room."
Before I cancelled my trip, the quarantine plan that I came up with was this: "I'll be back at my place of residence in the US within 48 hours from now". Also, I found a place to get a PCR test in Seattle and planned on getting my test there on the morning of the 9th then head out to some other part of Washington for a couple days before entering Canada, which would have been around the time I'm typing this.
Quote from: Evan_Th on August 11, 2021, 01:15:00 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on August 11, 2021, 01:57:25 AM
I had a quarantine plan on the app, but the border patrol agent never asked or even looked at the app. We just showed our passport, CDC vaccination card, and a negative test I had from Friday.
What'd you put as your quarantine plan? I'm toying with the idea of heading to Canada, but I'm not sure what I could say except "head back to the US" or "book a hotel room."
In ArriveCAN you can't put "returning home" as an option without it making you give a Canadian address, so you essentially have to put the next hotel you plan to stay at.
Quote from: Evan_Th on August 11, 2021, 01:15:00 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on August 11, 2021, 01:57:25 AM
I had a quarantine plan on the app, but the border patrol agent never asked or even looked at the app. We just showed our passport, CDC vaccination card, and a negative test I had from Friday.
What'd you put as your quarantine plan? I'm toying with the idea of heading to Canada, but I'm not sure what I could say except "head back to the US" or "book a hotel room."
I have friends in Vancouver, but I put a hotel on the app. The border patrol agent never asked to see the app or the confirmation code for it; though my data may have been linked to my passport.
So if I'm planning a day trip with no hotel involved and returning to my home in Seattle what could I put as a quarantine plan?
Quote from: kkt on August 11, 2021, 10:49:49 PM
So if I'm planning a day trip with no hotel involved and returning to my home in Seattle what could I put as a quarantine plan?
I literally put a random hotel in Squamish down. I had no booking plans with any hotel since I was just there for a day trip. If you know someone, it's probably better to use their address. I was going to use a friend's address in Burnaby, but I didn't get permission in time. lol
I would be very careful with the information put into the app as there have been $20,000 fines recently for false information. (this was fake vaccine docs)
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/two-travellers-from-u-s-fined-20-000-each-for-fake-vaccination-documents-1.5529627
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Stupid Question: So even if you are honest on everything but randomly test positive one can essentially be detained for 14 days by Health Canada/ CBSA, instead of being allowed immediate reentry to the US?
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Stupid Question: So even if you are honest on everything but randomly test positive one can essentially be detained for 14 days by Health Canada/ CBSA, instead of being allowed immediate reentry to the US?
Of course they can detain you. You're in their country (even if you haven't formally been granted admission). The US would allow a US citizen immediate reentry, but the Canadian authorities can take you into custody and prevent you from leaving. You're in their country, so you're subject to their law.
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Stupid Question: So even if you are honest on everything but randomly test positive one can essentially be detained for 14 days by Health Canada/ CBSA, instead of being allowed immediate reentry to the US?
Whatever that worth, my friend - a service engineer for a manufacturer of food-processing equipment , fully vaccinated at that time - was "deported" from Canada while the border was still closed.
Interview with border official went like that - Yes, your task is essential, so you can enter Canada. But I (border official) deem it to be non-urgent, so you must quarantine for 2 weeks (entire trip was planned for 2 days). After refusal, he got official deportation order, and was escorted to an outbound flight. It is to be seen if he can still enter Canada in future.
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
I would be very careful with the information put into the app as there have been $20,000 fines recently for false information. (this was fake vaccine docs)
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/two-travellers-from-u-s-fined-20-000-each-for-fake-vaccination-documents-1.5529627
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Well faking vaccine information is radically different than a shaky quarantine plan. I think the quarantine plan for most visitors would be impossible if they don't know someone who lives in Canada.
Finding a hotel is reasonable since the government did use hotels for mandatory quarantines earlier in the pandemic. It will just be costly.
iPhone
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Stupid Question: So even if you are honest on everything but randomly test positive one can essentially be detained for 14 days by Health Canada/ CBSA, instead of being allowed immediate reentry to the US?
And on the other hand if that was a US requirement.....would a Canadian be treated any different by US CBP?
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 01:01:05 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Stupid Question: So even if you are honest on everything but randomly test positive one can essentially be detained for 14 days by Health Canada/ CBSA, instead of being allowed immediate reentry to the US?
And on the other hand if that was a US requirement.....would a Canadian be treated any different by US CBP?
Maybe, given its not against the law to have COVID and could make for an interesting court case, especially if the person involved is voluntarily willing to go back. (But, I'm not a lawyer.)
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 01:17:29 PM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 01:01:05 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Stupid Question: So even if you are honest on everything but randomly test positive one can essentially be detained for 14 days by Health Canada/ CBSA, instead of being allowed immediate reentry to the US?
And on the other hand if that was a US requirement.....would a Canadian be treated any different by US CBP?
Maybe, given its not against the law to have COVID and could make for an interesting court case, especially if the person involved is voluntarily willing to go back. (But, I'm not a lawyer.)
Wut.
Customs officials have broad authority over who is let in and who isn't.
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 01:01:05 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Stupid Question: So even if you are honest on everything but randomly test positive one can essentially be detained for 14 days by Health Canada/ CBSA, instead of being allowed immediate reentry to the US?
And on the other hand if that was a US requirement.....would a Canadian be treated any different by US CBP?
Well Canada isn't allowed nonessential entry to the US until the 21st. Mask mandates are resuming in Oregon and Snohomish County, WA, so I wouldn't be surprised if the border closes again soon thanks to the delta variant.
iPhone
Quote from: Rothman on August 12, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 01:17:29 PM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 01:01:05 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Stupid Question: So even if you are honest on everything but randomly test positive one can essentially be detained for 14 days by Health Canada/ CBSA, instead of being allowed immediate reentry to the US?
And on the other hand if that was a US requirement.....would a Canadian be treated any different by US CBP?
Maybe, given its not against the law to have COVID and could make for an interesting court case, especially if the person involved is voluntarily willing to go back. (But, I'm not a lawyer.)
Wut.
Customs officials have broad authority over who is let in and who isn't.
True, but does US CBP have the authority to make someone who tests positive to isolate against there will for two weeks vs just forcing/ allowing them leave.
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 01:33:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 12, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 01:17:29 PM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 01:01:05 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Stupid Question: So even if you are honest on everything but randomly test positive one can essentially be detained for 14 days by Health Canada/ CBSA, instead of being allowed immediate reentry to the US?
And on the other hand if that was a US requirement.....would a Canadian be treated any different by US CBP?
Maybe, given its not against the law to have COVID and could make for an interesting court case, especially if the person involved is voluntarily willing to go back. (But, I'm not a lawyer.)
Wut.
Customs officials have broad authority over who is let in and who isn't.
True, but does US CBP have the authority to make someone who tests positive to isolate against there will for two weeks vs just forcing/ allowing them leave.
Yes.
As for me ever visiting Canada again, I think that I'll just wait until such time as the checkpoints are eliminated - if I live that long.
:meh:
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on August 13, 2021, 12:07:52 AM
As for me ever visiting Canada again, I think that I'll just wait until such time as the checkpoints are eliminated - if I live that long.
:meh:
Mike
All checkpoints are eliminated? Unless the countries merge, I can say with 100% certainty that you will not live that long.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on August 13, 2021, 12:09:50 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 13, 2021, 12:07:52 AM
As for me ever visiting Canada again, I think that I'll just wait until such time as the checkpoints are eliminated - if I live that long.
:meh:
Mike
All checkpoints are eliminated? Unless the countries merge, I can say with 100% certainty that you will not live that long.
Chris
I remember a discussion that I had with a USA border guard in the Federal Pavilion at the Experimental Aircraft Association's annual Airventure fly-in convention in Oshkosh, WI (airport KOSH - this is a BIG DEAL, nearly 17K civil aircraft were on the grounds for it a few weeks ago this year) in the late 00s where he straight out told me with fairly good certainty that had the 2001-09-11 attack not happened, Canada and the USA were on track to eliminate the checkpoints and set up a Schengen-style system along the mutual border by about 2004. I have heard it termed in some circles as the 'Strong Perimeter'.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on August 13, 2021, 12:07:52 AM
As for me ever visiting Canada again, I think that I'll just wait until such time as the checkpoints are eliminated - if I live that long.
:meh:
Mike
Lots of luck with that. The world seems to be trending toward more checkpoints and more stringent border enforcement, not less.
US and Canada need a Schengen area. I don't see many downsides to that.
Quote from: mgk920 on August 13, 2021, 12:23:35 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on August 13, 2021, 12:09:50 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 13, 2021, 12:07:52 AM
As for me ever visiting Canada again, I think that I'll just wait until such time as the checkpoints are eliminated - if I live that long.
:meh:
Mike
All checkpoints are eliminated? Unless the countries merge, I can say with 100% certainty that you will not live that long.
Chris
I remember a discussion that I had with a USA border guard in the Federal Pavilion at the Experimental Aircraft Association's annual Airventure fly-in convention in Oshkosh, WI (airport KOSH - this is a BIG DEAL, nearly 17K civil aircraft were on the grounds for it a few weeks ago this year) in the late 00s where he straight out told me with fairly good certainty that had the 2001-09-11 attack not happened, Canada and the USA were on track to eliminate the checkpoints and set up a Schengen-style system along the mutual border by about 2004. I have heard it termed in some circles as the 'Strong Perimeter'.
Mike
Have to say, the proportion of the background info provided to the actual point of the paragraph is very high on this one. Could have just said "Oshkosh"; AirVenture is well-known.
Quote from: mgk920 on August 13, 2021, 12:07:52 AM
As for me ever visiting Canada again, I think that I'll just wait until such time as the checkpoints are eliminated - if I live that long.
:meh:
Mike
That's unfortunate. People putting their own restrictions on travel is somewhat befuddling to me, despite my understanding that not everyone can psychologically handle going through the steps needed to get from points A to B.
I am hopefully headed through Canada in less than two weeks. Got my test appointment set up for the 72-hours prior and looking forward to making my border appointment on Canada's app.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 13, 2021, 12:42:13 AM
US and Canada need a Schengen area. I don't see many downsides to that.
There are a lot of Homeland Security contractors who stand to lose there.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on August 13, 2021, 02:54:47 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 13, 2021, 12:42:13 AM
US and Canada need a Schengen area. I don't see many downsides to that.
There are a lot of Homeland Security contractors who stand to lose there.
Yeah I don't care. "But __ might lose their job" is never an excuse for preventing innovation and moving forward.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 13, 2021, 03:10:50 PM
Yeah I don't care. "But __ might lose their job" is never an excuse for preventing innovation and moving forward.
Except it always is. Depending on which political party is talking, you never want to have (a) American jobs moving overseas or (b) Teamsters losing jobs.
Quote from: kphoger on August 13, 2021, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 13, 2021, 03:10:50 PM
Yeah I don't care. "But __ might lose their job" is never an excuse for preventing innovation and moving forward.
Except it always is. Depending on which political party is talking, you never want to have (a) American jobs moving overseas or (b) Teamsters losing jobs.
What contractors would lose their jobs anyway?
Some Canadian provinces and territories have travel restrictions in addition to the border crossing rules established by Canada's federal government. Here is a handy guide to the restrictions still in place for travel within Canada (https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/provinces).
The unwelcome mat is still out for leisure or other non-essential travel, including for Canadian travelers, to Nunavut, the Northwest Territories, and far northern Quebec (including the James Bay Road/Route Billy-Diamond Highway). There are more manageable travel restrictions for Manitoba and the Maritime Provinces (New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland/Labrador), which you should check if you want to go there. Otherwise, getting across the U.S./Canada border will be the hard part.
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Stupid Question: So even if you are honest on everything but randomly test positive one can essentially be detained for 14 days by Health Canada/ CBSA, instead of being allowed immediate reentry to the US?
I suppose they could do that, but if you read the Canadian Government's website, it says you are allowed to exit quarantine to leave Canada. Plus, if you think about it, they're making YOU come up with a "quarantine plan" on your own, so it's clearly not going to be some forced thing if you happen to test positive.
Quote from: stevashe on August 13, 2021, 04:55:17 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 12, 2021, 07:17:41 AM
It's the 'random' testing you might have to do once you arrive......and if you test positive you will be sent into quarantine and have to be able to show you have a plan for this. You've now entered Canada, had contacts here and won't just be sent back to the US.
Stupid Question: So even if you are honest on everything but randomly test positive one can essentially be detained for 14 days by Health Canada/ CBSA, instead of being allowed immediate reentry to the US?
I suppose they could do that, but if you read the Canadian Government's website, it says you are allowed to exit quarantine to leave Canada.
But you have to use your own vehicle to leave voluntarily. You can't take a plane or other public transportation back to the U.S. In the story told by Kalvado in reply #154 above, the engineer ordered into quarantine had flown into Canada, and could fly back into the U.S. only under a deportation order, something that would at least complicate any return to Canada.
One other thing: if you are ordered into quarantine in Canada due to a positive test result (rather than just a Canadian border agent deciding for other reasons that you didn't qualify for a quarantine exemption), even if you can voluntarily exit Canadian quarantine, might a U.S. border agent make you immediately quarantine in the U.S.?
Quote from: oscar on August 13, 2021, 04:22:30 PM
There are more manageable travel restrictions......... Maritime Provinces (New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland/Labrador)
Maritime Provinces: New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia.
Atlantic Provinces: New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland/Labrador
Quote from: oscar on August 13, 2021, 04:22:30 PM
Some Canadian provinces and territories have travel restrictions in addition to the border crossing rules established by Canada's federal government. Here is a handy guide to the restrictions still in place for travel within Canada (https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/provinces).
The unwelcome mat is still out for leisure or other non-essential travel, including for Canadian travelers, to Nunavut, the Northwest Territories, and far northern Quebec (including the James Bay Road/Route Billy-Diamond Highway). There are more manageable travel restrictions for Manitoba and the Maritime Provinces (New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland/Labrador), which you should check if you want to go there. Otherwise, getting across the U.S./Canada border will be the hard part.
I looked into this further, since I am planning to take a long-postponed trip to the Maritimes next year (specifically New Brunswick and Nova Scotia). It appears that New Brunswick has dropped their travel registration program (I believe this was after the Government of Canada page was last updated on 7/29/21). Nova Scotia has a travel registration program called the Safe Check-In Form that needs to be filled out prior to visiting Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island has something similar called PEI Pass. Prince Edward Island's PEI Pass page states that they expect the PEI Pass program to continue until the state of emergency has ended, which they anticipate to be sometime in the middle of September.
I am not anticipating visiting Canada this year due to other travel plans that I wound up making instead, but I am itching to get back up to Canada.
Quote from: stevashe on August 11, 2021, 12:26:52 AM
Quote from: zzcarp on August 11, 2021, 12:09:21 AM
I'll pass on anything interesting my dad experiences when crossing tomorrow.
I'll be heading that way on August 21.
I'd be interested to know if they actually ask about the quarantine plan of if it's basically a non-issue.
My dad's experience was they didn't ask about the quarantine plan. The border guard did look at the negative test receipt and vaccine card along with the regular passport requirement.
Quote from: oscar on August 13, 2021, 06:15:37 PMOne other thing: if you are ordered into quarantine in Canada due to a positive test result (rather than just a Canadian border agent deciding for other reasons that you didn't qualify for a quarantine exemption), even if you can voluntarily exit Canadian quarantine, might a U.S. border agent make you immediately quarantine in the U.S.?
One could imagine, provided the individual is a legal US resident, it may bring up a whole host of issues, constitutionality, possible Miranda stuff, etc. (Again IANAL tho...)
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 14, 2021, 07:16:07 AM
(Again IANAL tho...)
ack, there's that acronym again. Never saw it until the last week, now I've seen it twice (well, three times). 🤮
Quote from: zzcarp on August 14, 2021, 02:41:56 AM
Quote from: stevashe on August 11, 2021, 12:26:52 AM
Quote from: zzcarp on August 11, 2021, 12:09:21 AM
I'll pass on anything interesting my dad experiences when crossing tomorrow.
I'll be heading that way on August 21.
I'd be interested to know if they actually ask about the quarantine plan of if it's basically a non-issue.
My dad's experience was they didn't ask about the quarantine plan. The border guard did look at the negative test receipt and vaccine card along with the regular passport requirement.
Mine was the same experience. Agent didn't ask about quarantine plan. Did he fill out the ArriveCAN app?
Curious because I did, and I'm wondering if the agent just sees what I put on the app when they scan my passport.
iPhone
Quote from: KEK Inc. on August 14, 2021, 12:31:48 PM
Quote from: zzcarp on August 14, 2021, 02:41:56 AM
Quote from: stevashe on August 11, 2021, 12:26:52 AM
Quote from: zzcarp on August 11, 2021, 12:09:21 AM
I'll pass on anything interesting my dad experiences when crossing tomorrow.
I'll be heading that way on August 21.
I'd be interested to know if they actually ask about the quarantine plan of if it's basically a non-issue.
My dad's experience was they didn't ask about the quarantine plan. The border guard did look at the negative test receipt and vaccine card along with the regular passport requirement.
Mine was the same experience. Agent didn't ask about quarantine plan. Did he fill out the ArriveCAN app?
Curious because I did, and I'm wondering if the agent just sees what I put on the app when they scan my passport.
iPhone
Yes, that's how ArriveCan works
Got my negative results in today. I have a hotel stay already planned for the night of 15 August, so the quarantine plan is no issue. Planning to pass through the border around 9am tomorrow.
The application asked for both (a) crossing location, and (b) crossing time. Does anyone know how solid these have to be?
Quote from: jakeroot on August 14, 2021, 01:45:17 PM
Got my negative results in today. I have a hotel stay already planned for the night of 15 August, so the quarantine plan is no issue. Planning to pass through the border around 9am tomorrow.
The application asked for both (a) crossing location, and (b) crossing time. Does anyone know how solid these have to be?
I was pretty accurate on mine. We just went through peace arch. I figured sumas and the truck entry would have stricter agents.
I'm sure timing is lenient m.
iPhone
Quote from: jakeroot on August 14, 2021, 01:45:17 PM
Got my negative results in today. I have a hotel stay already planned for the night of 15 August, so the quarantine plan is no issue. Planning to pass through the border around 9am tomorrow.
The application asked for both (a) crossing location, and (b) crossing time. Does anyone know how solid these have to be?
Not that solid - just pick the right location, and some time the day you're crossing.
I disagree with KEK - my experiences with Sumas/Huntingdon have been much smoother than with Peace Arch all throughout the campaign. Mainly because most tourists/day trippers don't have much reason to go to Abbotsford. If I were to guess, Lynden/Aldergrove would be the smoothest of all.
I was going to aim for Aldergrove but since the hotel is downton on Howe St, I wasn't necessarily looking to detour all the way east out there.
I have submitted my ArriveCAN application, all is approved. I suspect it may be too late to change from Douglas to Aldergrove.
It would seem that when Canada opened up the land border, they also opened the water border back up as well:
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/pb-pp-eng.html#s07
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 14, 2021, 07:16:07 AM
Quote from: oscar on August 13, 2021, 06:15:37 PMOne other thing: if you are ordered into quarantine in Canada due to a positive test result (rather than just a Canadian border agent deciding for other reasons that you didn't qualify for a quarantine exemption), even if you can voluntarily exit Canadian quarantine, might a U.S. border agent make you immediately quarantine in the U.S.?
One could imagine, provided the individual is a legal US resident, it may bring up a whole host of issues, constitutionality, possible Miranda stuff, etc. (Again IANAL tho...)
While I am a retired lawyer, I'm not going to venture into such issues (for among other reasons, well outside my former legal specialty). But the border agent might bypass some of those issues, with a phone call to a Federal, state, or local public health official who would have authority to put you in quarantine.
Quote from: vdeane on August 14, 2021, 11:19:53 PM
It would seem that when Canada opened up the land border, they also opened the water border back up as well:
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/pb-pp-eng.html#s07
Yeah, they did. Maritime entry is one of the options on the first page of the ArriveCAN app. The others being arrival by land and air, of course.
Quote from: vdeane on August 14, 2021, 11:19:53 PM
It would seem that when Canada opened up the land border, they also opened the water border back up as well:
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/pb-pp-eng.html#s07
Sadly even with the maritime border reopened, the Sidney run from Anacortes will remain suspended until next year.
https://www.vicnews.com/news/sidney-to-anacortes-ferry-suspended-until-fall-2021/
Although other International Travel with Canada won't reopen until September....this Border did along with the US last week: the 'France-Canada' Border between St- Pierre and Newfoundland and the first scheduled arrival of the new vehicle ferry. Previously this was a pedestrian only ferry and had been suspended for 17 months.
https://la1ere.francetvinfo.fr/saintpierremiquelon/transport-maritime-des-retrouvailles-attendues-entre-saint-pierre-et-miquelon-et-fortune-1077934.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/st-pierre-miquelon-fortune-ferry-1.6138866
Quote from: vdeane on August 14, 2021, 11:19:53 PM
It would seem that when Canada opened up the land border, they also opened the water border back up as well:
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/pb-pp-eng.html#s07
I recall this being a concern with boaters in the Thousand Islands, who would traditionally cross the international border going between islands, even if their starting point and destination were in the same country.
Passed through the border around 0915 today, and it involved two checkpoints. That's one more than usual for the uninformed.
Driving north on I-5, US CBP had the lanes closed just past the final exit to Blaine, and directed all traffic into a small lay-by. Each car was stopped, asked to shut the engine off and provide keys to an agent; numerous questions asked about future travel itinerary, bags searched, car searched, etc. Then I was given the OK to leave. NEVER been stopped by CBP going into Canada. I'm not even used to checkpoints in Washington. Very odd experience.
The actual Canadian border was pretty straightforward, apart from having to provide the negative COVID tests. Typical questions about travel plans, hotel stays. Nothing about quarantine plans. Never showed my phone. Provided the two ID's that I noted in the ArriveCAN app, and we were good.
I managed to record the whole experience on dashcam, which I will upload later.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 15, 2021, 06:48:37 PM
Passed through the border around 0915 today, and it involved two checkpoints. That's one more than usual for the uninformed.
Driving north on I-5, US CBP had the lanes closed just past the final exit to Blaine, and directed all traffic into a small lay-by. Each car was stopped, asked to shut the engine off and provide keys to an agent; numerous questions asked about future travel itinerary, bags searched, car searched, etc. Then I was given the OK to leave. NEVER been stopped by CBP going into Canada. I'm not even used to checkpoints in Washington. Very odd experience.
The actual Canadian border was pretty straightforward, apart from having to provide the negative COVID tests. Typical questions about travel plans, hotel stays. Nothing about quarantine plans. Never showed my phone. Provided the two ID's that I noted in the ArriveCAN app, and we were good.
I managed to record the whole experience on dashcam, which I will upload later.
CBP will occasionally do random exit checks and they have for a while. In the many dozens of times I have crossed the border, I got exit checked exactly once at the Peace Bridge. It's not common, but it happens.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 15, 2021, 06:48:37 PM
Passed through the border around 0915 today, and it involved two checkpoints. That's one more than usual for the uninformed.
Driving north on I-5, US CBP had the lanes closed just past the final exit to Blaine, and directed all traffic into a small lay-by. Each car was stopped, asked to shut the engine off and provide keys to an agent; numerous questions asked about future travel itinerary, bags searched, car searched, etc. Then I was given the OK to leave. NEVER been stopped by CBP going into Canada. I'm not even used to checkpoints in Washington. Very odd experience.
The actual Canadian border was pretty straightforward, apart from having to provide the negative COVID tests. Typical questions about travel plans, hotel stays. Nothing about quarantine plans. Never showed my phone. Provided the two ID's that I noted in the ArriveCAN app, and we were good.
I managed to record the whole experience on dashcam, which I will upload later.
Same thing happened to me last week. Think they're expecting the drug smuggling to ramp up with the border opening.
Exit checks should be illegal. It's the Canadian border, not the Berlin Wall!
Quote from: stevashe on August 15, 2021, 12:25:43 AM
Quote from: vdeane on August 14, 2021, 11:19:53 PM
It would seem that when Canada opened up the land border, they also opened the water border back up as well:
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/pb-pp-eng.html#s07
Yeah, they did. Maritime entry is one of the options on the first page of the ArriveCAN app. The others being arrival by land and air, of course.
Quote from: Dougtone on August 15, 2021, 07:10:07 AM
Quote from: vdeane on August 14, 2021, 11:19:53 PM
It would seem that when Canada opened up the land border, they also opened the water border back up as well:
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/pb-pp-eng.html#s07
I recall this being a concern with boaters in the Thousand Islands, who would traditionally cross the international border going between islands, even if their starting point and destination were in the same country.
Yes, I was talking about recreational boating - not ferries. There are many places in the 1000 Islands where avoiding crossing the border is impractical, especially east of Chippewa Bay where all the dredged material from building the Seaway was dumped (resulting in places where the water goes from dozens of feet deep to only a foot or two very quickly). Plus who wants to keep track of where the line is when they're out there, anyways?
Quote from: vdeane on August 14, 2021, 11:19:53 PM
Quote from: Dougtone on August 15, 2021, 07:10:07 AM
I recall this being a concern with boaters in the Thousand Islands, who would traditionally cross the international border going between islands, even if their starting point and destination were in the same country.
Yes, I was talking about recreational boating - not ferries. There are many places in the 1000 Islands where avoiding crossing the border is impractical, especially east of Chippewa Bay where all the dredged material from building the Seaway was dumped (resulting in places where the water goes from dozens of feet deep to only a foot or two very quickly). Plus who wants to keep track of where the line is when they're out there, anyways?
So long as they don't land in the other country it's a non-issue. As a result, a local tour boat company is finally able to resume its usual tour route as opposed to the modified US-only one they were forced to use since last summer.
Quote from: vdeane on August 15, 2021, 07:58:49 PM
Exit checks should be illegal. It's the Canadian border, not the Berlin Wall!
Exactly, obviously CBP is way overstaffed if they have time to harass people going to Canada.
I have another border crossing story. My friend and his wife crossed from Washington to BC Saturday, not sure which crossing. They had attempted Friday and were turned back-my friend's test was 72.5 hours old. He seemed surprised they are sticklers on the test timing. Luckily he figured out how to get a 24-hour turnaround test at the Bellingham airport so they could enter.
Quote from: zzcarp on August 15, 2021, 08:58:15 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 15, 2021, 07:58:49 PM
Exit checks should be illegal. It's the Canadian border, not the Berlin Wall!
Exactly, obviously CBP is way overstaffed if they have time to harass people going to Canada.
Doesn't really follow, we've had waits of four hours coming into the U.S. when their budget wasn't being lowballed. They just spend their budget places other than the Canadian border and don't care much if that's inconvenient.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 15, 2021, 06:48:37 PM
Passed through the border around 0915 today, and it involved two checkpoints. That's one more than usual for the uninformed.
Driving north on I-5, US CBP had the lanes closed just past the final exit to Blaine, and directed all traffic into a small lay-by. Each car was stopped, asked to shut the engine off and provide keys to an agent.....
Well that would be physical contact. How many other key sets had he touched that day? Hope he had gloves on and changed them each time.
The COVID spread by physical contact is extremely low.
So, that exit check I mentioned was a first for me. I have gone through the WA-BC border more times that I could possibly count, and I have never encountered them.
This is where I was stopped: https://goo.gl/maps/nLVd8jpcguZNCQ2a8
Based on the setup, it seems pretty apparent that the checkpoint was designed to exist at that point. I've just never seen it happen. The lights were flashing red, cones setup to file traffic into the right lane, and the bollards on the right removed. There was about five to eight CBP agents.
As to their purpose: I don't quite get the idea. Being stopped without reasonable suspicion makes me uncomfortable. My girlfriend was particularly thrown by the experience as they went through her whole bag, handling her underwear, bras, etc. I just don't know what anyone going into Canada is doing to deserve being checked to that degree.
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 16, 2021, 04:34:33 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 15, 2021, 06:48:37 PM
Passed through the border around 0915 today, and it involved two checkpoints. That's one more than usual for the uninformed.
Driving north on I-5, US CBP had the lanes closed just past the final exit to Blaine, and directed all traffic into a small lay-by. Each car was stopped, asked to shut the engine off and provide keys to an agent.....
Well that would be physical contact. How many other key sets had he touched that day? Hope he had gloves on and changed them each time.
He did have gloves on. Oddly, he forgot to give me the key back and I had to ask him where he put it (he set it on my roof where I couldn't see it).
Quote from: jakeroot on August 17, 2021, 06:42:58 PM
So, that exit check I mentioned was a first for me. I have gone through the WA-BC border more times that I could possibly count, and I have never encountered them.
This is where I was stopped: https://goo.gl/maps/nLVd8jpcguZNCQ2a8
Based on the setup, it seems pretty apparent that the checkpoint was designed to exist at that point. I've just never seen it happen. The lights were flashing red, cones setup to file traffic into the right lane, and the bollards on the right removed. There was about five to eight CBP agents.
As to their purpose: I don't quite get the idea. Being stopped without reasonable suspicion makes me uncomfortable. My girlfriend was particularly thrown by the experience as they went through her whole bag, handling her underwear, bras, etc. I just don't know what anyone going into Canada is doing to deserve being checked to that degree.
Literally nothing. Just justifying their existence.
I would never want to deal with such a thing. I can't stand people going through my stuff and potentially breaking things (not to mention disrupting how everything is organized and scratching the paint on the car by leaving keys on the roof!). I highly doubt they're being even remotely careful, certainly not by my standards. Plus who needs everyone around them to see their luggage? If someone needs to take certain medical items with them, that's a huge breach of privacy and arguably a HIPPA violation.
Stuff like this makes me never want to cross the border ever again. CBP needs to be abolished NOW.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 17, 2021, 06:42:58 PM
So, that exit check I mentioned was a first for me. I have gone through the WA-BC border more times that I could possibly count, and I have never encountered them.
This is where I was stopped: https://goo.gl/maps/nLVd8jpcguZNCQ2a8
Based on the setup, it seems pretty apparent that the checkpoint was designed to exist at that point. I've just never seen it happen. The lights were flashing red, cones setup to file traffic into the right lane, and the bollards on the right removed. There was about five to eight CBP agents.
As to their purpose: I don't quite get the idea. Being stopped without reasonable suspicion makes me uncomfortable. My girlfriend was particularly thrown by the experience as they went through her whole bag, handling her underwear, bras, etc. I just don't know what anyone going into Canada is doing to deserve being checked to that degree.
The border's the one place where Fourth Amendment protections don't apply.
Canada having been shut down for more than a year and a half has drastically increased drug prices. There's a lot of money to be made if you can get cocaine north of the border. That's almost certainly what the checks are about.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on August 17, 2021, 08:44:56 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 17, 2021, 06:42:58 PM
So, that exit check I mentioned was a first for me. I have gone through the WA-BC border more times that I could possibly count, and I have never encountered them.
This is where I was stopped: https://goo.gl/maps/nLVd8jpcguZNCQ2a8
Based on the setup, it seems pretty apparent that the checkpoint was designed to exist at that point. I've just never seen it happen. The lights were flashing red, cones setup to file traffic into the right lane, and the bollards on the right removed. There was about five to eight CBP agents.
As to their purpose: I don't quite get the idea. Being stopped without reasonable suspicion makes me uncomfortable. My girlfriend was particularly thrown by the experience as they went through her whole bag, handling her underwear, bras, etc. I just don't know what anyone going into Canada is doing to deserve being checked to that degree.
The border's the one place where Fourth Amendment protections don't apply.
Canada having been shut down for more than a year and a half has drastically increased drug prices. There's a lot of money to be made if you can get cocaine north of the border. That's almost certainly what the checks are about.
And it should be Canada's problem if they want to stop them.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on August 17, 2021, 08:44:56 PM
Canada having been shut down for more than a year and a half has drastically increased drug prices. There's a lot of money to be made if you can get cocaine north of the border. That's almost certainly what the checks are about.
That doesn't explain, or justify, the expenditure of US resources on the exit search. Canada can do its own searches upon entry, with more focus on firearms, and cheap U.S. tobacco and booze, than it can expect from U.S. border agents. If the US search means there will be no vehicle search on the Canadian side of the border, that would be nice, but I doubt that will ever happen.
I hope that by the time I travel to Canada, there will be enough returning U.S. citizens to keep CBP border agents busy, so they won't have any agents free for exit searches.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 17, 2021, 06:42:58 PM
As to their purpose: I don't quite get the idea. Being stopped without reasonable suspicion makes me uncomfortable. My girlfriend was particularly thrown by the experience as they went through her whole bag, handling her underwear, bras, etc. I just don't know what anyone going into Canada is doing to deserve being checked to that degree.
Crossing from the USA into Mexico at the Colombia Solidarity Bridge annually between 2009 and about 2014, I found the CBP exit checkpoint operational more times than not. I don't think I ever had to exit the vehicle, but they did use mirrors to check under the vehicles.
Quote from: oscar on August 17, 2021, 09:18:49 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on August 17, 2021, 08:44:56 PM
Canada having been shut down for more than a year and a half has drastically increased drug prices. There's a lot of money to be made if you can get cocaine north of the border. That's almost certainly what the checks are about.
That doesn't explain, or justify, the expenditure of US resources on the exit search. Canada can do its own searches upon entry, with more focus on firearms, and cheap U.S. tobacco and booze, than it can expect from U.S. border agents. If the US search means there will be no vehicle search on the Canadian side of the border, that would be nice, but I doubt that will ever happen.
I hope that by the time I travel to Canada, there will be enough returning U.S. citizens to keep CBP border agents busy, so they won't have any agents free for exit searches.
At the Mexican border, my assumption is that CBP is checking for arms smugglers, as the USA and Mexico are in cooperation against the cartels.
Likewise, I've encountered military checkpoints heading north in Mexico about 40-50 miles before the US border once or twice–at which, on one occasion, the second vehicle in our convoy was flagged over, everyone had to exit the vehicle, and the soldiers looked through their luggage on the side of the highway. The vehicle was a nice big black SUV covered in dirt, so I think it raised a red flag. I'm sure they were checking for drugs–which you could argue should be the USA's problem, except that, again, the USA and Mexico are in cooperation on that.
I don't know exactly what's going on with CBP at the northern border right now, but "not my problem" isn't necessarily the best approach to fighting smugglers. I'm sure the USA has an official vested interest in stopping certain things from leaving the country.
Quote from: vdeane on August 17, 2021, 08:36:21 PM
I would never want to deal with such a thing. I can't stand people going through my stuff and potentially breaking things (not to mention disrupting how everything is organized and scratching the paint on the car by leaving keys on the roof!). I highly doubt they're being even remotely careful, certainly not by my standards. Plus who needs everyone around them to see their luggage? If someone needs to take certain medical items with them, that's a huge breach of privacy and arguably a HIPPA violation.
Stuff like this makes me never want to cross the border ever again. CBP needs to be abolished NOW.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7FT0SVWUAUSSNT.jpg:large)
Chris
Quote from: kkt on August 17, 2021, 09:18:20 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on August 17, 2021, 08:44:56 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 17, 2021, 06:42:58 PM
So, that exit check I mentioned was a first for me. I have gone through the WA-BC border more times that I could possibly count, and I have never encountered them.
This is where I was stopped: https://goo.gl/maps/nLVd8jpcguZNCQ2a8
Based on the setup, it seems pretty apparent that the checkpoint was designed to exist at that point. I've just never seen it happen. The lights were flashing red, cones setup to file traffic into the right lane, and the bollards on the right removed. There was about five to eight CBP agents.
As to their purpose: I don't quite get the idea. Being stopped without reasonable suspicion makes me uncomfortable. My girlfriend was particularly thrown by the experience as they went through her whole bag, handling her underwear, bras, etc. I just don't know what anyone going into Canada is doing to deserve being checked to that degree.
The border's the one place where Fourth Amendment protections don't apply.
Canada having been shut down for more than a year and a half has drastically increased drug prices. There's a lot of money to be made if you can get cocaine north of the border. That's almost certainly what the checks are about.
And it should be Canada's problem if they want to stop them.
I don't think you understand - it looks very good for CBP if they're the ones who make the catches/arrests, rather than CBSA/RCMP. Since there's no constitutional barrier to checkpoints there, and budgets depend on them looking good, this is what you are going to get.
Quote from: kphoger on August 18, 2021, 10:00:50 AM
At the Mexican border, my assumption is that CBP is checking for arms smugglers, as the USA and Mexico are in cooperation against the cartels.
Likewise, I've encountered military checkpoints heading north in Mexico about 40-50 miles before the US border once or twice–at which, on one occasion, the second vehicle in our convoy was flagged over, everyone had to exit the vehicle, and the soldiers looked through their luggage on the side of the highway. The vehicle was a nice big black SUV covered in dirt, so I think it raised a red flag. I'm sure they were checking for drugs–which you could argue should be the USA's problem, except that, again, the USA and Mexico are in cooperation on that.
I don't know exactly what's going on with CBP at the northern border right now, but "not my problem" isn't necessarily the best approach to fighting smugglers. I'm sure the USA has an official vested interest in stopping certain things from leaving the country.
I mean that's it, the contraband crossing the border is of concern to the destination country, but the people distributing/producing/processing/etc it are the origin country's problem.
Also, I have had CBSA check on the way out. And for what it's worth, have had exit checks in Europe whenever I've flown out of there too.
Quote from: cbeach40 on August 18, 2021, 12:30:16 PM
I mean that's it, the contraband crossing the border is of concern to the destination country, but the people distributing/producing/processing/etc [and transporting] it are the origin country's problem.
Also, I have had CBSA check on the way out. And for what it's worth, have had exit checks in Europe whenever I've flown out of there too.
Added the item most important to the discussion. I mean, if US citizens are smuggling things out of the country, how could that
not be our concern?
Let me add my own recent experience to this thread.
Into Canada: "Please give us your passport, proof of vaccination, and proof of recent negative test." After review: "How long will you be here?" After my answer and some processing, he handed everything back. It was 4 minutes total.
Into USA: "Are you the registered owner of this vehicle?" Yes... "Did you bring anything back with you?" "How long were you in Canada?" And then I was on my way. It was 3 minutes total.
I have never had a combined experience easier than that, or with fewer questions on either side, let alone both sides.
Quote from: Alps on August 18, 2021, 07:24:53 PM
Let me add my own recent experience to this thread.
Into Canada: "Please give us your passport, proof of vaccination, and proof of recent negative test." After review: "How long will you be here?" After my answer and some processing, he handed everything back. It was 4 minutes total.
Into USA: "Are you the registered owner of this vehicle?" Yes... "Did you bring anything back with you?" "How long were you in Canada?" And then I was on my way. It was 3 minutes total.
I have never had a combined experience easier than that, or with fewer questions on either side, let alone both sides.
That's awesome that you got through so easily. It sounds like the pre-9/11 experience.
Quote from: zzcarp on August 19, 2021, 12:06:14 AM
Quote from: Alps on August 18, 2021, 07:24:53 PM
Let me add my own recent experience to this thread.
Into Canada: "Please give us your passport, proof of vaccination, and proof of recent negative test." After review: "How long will you be here?" After my answer and some processing, he handed everything back. It was 4 minutes total.
Into USA: "Are you the registered owner of this vehicle?" Yes... "Did you bring anything back with you?" "How long were you in Canada?" And then I was on my way. It was 3 minutes total.
I have never had a combined experience easier than that, or with fewer questions on either side, let alone both sides.
That's awesome that you got through so easily. It sounds like the pre-9/11 experience.
"Hello sir, are you a US citizen?" Nods head. "Have a good day"
Quote from: zzcarp on August 19, 2021, 12:06:14 AM
Quote from: Alps on August 18, 2021, 07:24:53 PM
Let me add my own recent experience to this thread.
Into Canada: "Please give us your passport, proof of vaccination, and proof of recent negative test." After review: "How long will you be here?" After my answer and some processing, he handed everything back. It was 4 minutes total.
Into USA: "Are you the registered owner of this vehicle?" Yes... "Did you bring anything back with you?" "How long were you in Canada?" And then I was on my way. It was 3 minutes total.
I have never had a combined experience easier than that, or with fewer questions on either side, let alone both sides.
That's awesome that you got through so easily. It sounds like the pre-9/11 experience.
My guess is Canada was so preoccupied with COVID, and so bereft of tourism, that they just wanted to make sure that was in order and nothing more. And since the USA isn't open to Canadians yet, they would let American citizens back in fairly easily. Just guesses. They probably expected a slight surge in tourism so close to the border reopening and so my appearance wasn't a surprise, even though the return was not a major crossing.
It is quite interesting how quiet the border has gone since reopening. This is from my experience last weekend:
Going northbound: there were only three cars at the actual Canadian checkpoint, but there were four open stalls, allowing me to proceed immediately to the checkpoint. I was through in about 90 seconds.
Going southbound: there was only one other car, and there were two open checkpoints. I was, again, able to proceed immediately to the checkpoint. I was through in about 60 seconds.
For anyone used to going through the regular non-NEXUS crossing (not my normal experience unless with friends), it was outrageously fast. Never gone through the regular line without it involving at least some wait.
In terms of the questions, I only addressed northbound (pretty standard questions). Coming southbound (back into the US), the agent was very friendly, asked about where we'd been, where home was (very normal question), and then said something I've never heard before: "welcome home".
Overall, positive experience both directions, apart from the exit-check (which, by the way, had only one car when I arrived, to give some idea of how quiet the crossing was).
Quote from: zzcarp on August 19, 2021, 12:06:14 AM
Quote from: Alps on August 18, 2021, 07:24:53 PM
Let me add my own recent experience to this thread.
Into Canada: "Please give us your passport, proof of vaccination, and proof of recent negative test." After review: "How long will you be here?" After my answer and some processing, he handed everything back. It was 4 minutes total.
Into USA: "Are you the registered owner of this vehicle?" Yes... "Did you bring anything back with you?" "How long were you in Canada?" And then I was on my way. It was 3 minutes total.
I have never had a combined experience easier than that, or with fewer questions on either side, let alone both sides.
That's awesome that you got through so easily. It sounds like the pre-9/11 experience.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/46/3e/34/463e345e8f81064ed4b45fe7889e34ac.jpg)
Disappointing news, the US is extending the border closure until Sept. 21:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/us-border-canada-closed-1.6147189?fbclid=IwAR2PtxbDXzWUAuKQa0w7nTgKXLl29noXRRbruRG5FD8bOhIlf1h2x1sUOW8 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/us-border-canada-closed-1.6147189?fbclid=IwAR2PtxbDXzWUAuKQa0w7nTgKXLl29noXRRbruRG5FD8bOhIlf1h2x1sUOW8)
If you asked me a few months ago who would open their border first, I would not have guessed Canada lol
It doesn't surprise me that Canada was first, 7/8... The USA is not a good neighbor sometimes. Canada needs the money from American visitors more than the USA needs the money from Canadian visitors.
Quote from: kkt on August 20, 2021, 03:01:33 PM
It doesn't surprise me that Canada was first, 7/8... The USA is not a good neighbor sometimes. Canada needs the money from American visitors more than the USA needs the money from Canadian visitors.
Chuck Schumer was very vocal about border opening for the sake of northern NY communities. Once Canada allowed access, he's not heard any more - so I assume US needed outgoing flow more than anything else.
Quote from: kkt on August 20, 2021, 03:01:33 PM
It doesn't surprise me that Canada was first, 7/8... The USA is not a good neighbor sometimes. Canada needs the money from American visitors more than the USA needs the money from Canadian visitors.
Also, Canada's around 80% vaccinated, the US only around 51%. Delta's not going to overwhelm the capacity north of the border.
The hot potato, as always, is Mexico. A big chunk of the electorate is convinced that people crossing the border from the south are bringing the plague, even in non-pandemic times. Opening the Canadian border and not the Mexican border causes a ton of diplomatic problems, even if the people who complain the most are convinced the Mexican border is open, anyway.
Quote from: kalvado on August 20, 2021, 03:17:19 PM
Quote from: kkt on August 20, 2021, 03:01:33 PM
It doesn't surprise me that Canada was first, 7/8... The USA is not a good neighbor sometimes. Canada needs the money from American visitors more than the USA needs the money from Canadian visitors.
Chuck Schumer was very vocal about border opening for the sake of northern NY communities. Once Canada allowed access, he's not heard any more - so I assume US needed outgoing flow more than anything else.
Brian Higgins still cares: https://twitter.com/RepBrianHiggins/status/1428695718211039244?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
I crossed the Canadian border at Sault Ste Marie on Saturday just after 5 pm. There was no traffic on the bridge itself heading into Canada, and I only passed a car and a semi heading to the States. The inspection station had two bays open, one occupied by a semi truck and one with a van that pulled out right when I passed the bridge abutment. There was a handwritten sign at the "proceed when bay is clear" sign stating masks required beyond this point.
The border agent was super friendly as well. I had a few more questions than some others have relayed-my 78-year-old dad is at the cabin, so he's a "vulnerable person" in Canadian parlance. That said, I had a letter from him stating he was fine with me being there and a copy of his vax card which seemed to answer all the questions. Also funny was that I was wearing my sunglasses and a mask, and she asked me to remove my glasses and not my mask to check my identity versus my passport.
What was NOT smooth was getting my negative COVID test results. I took a COVID PCR test around 4:30 pm Wednesday at my local Walgreens in Westminster, Colorado. The websites of both labs that Walgreens uses to process the tests at that time stated there was about a 24 turnaround after receipt. Walgreens told me they were overnighting the shipment. In my mind, I'd receive the test results well within the required 72 hour timeframe. Friday night comes around after a long day of driving, and I'm staying in Menominee, Wisconsin just off I-94. The lab still "hadn't received" my test results. In fact, they were not "received" until Sunday per the website, and, as of noon Mountain time today, I still have not received the email with the test results.
I did some googling and found some same-day PCR tests for traveling. The only one in the Sault was open weekdays only and it was a Saturday. There was one at the Minneapolis airport, but I would have had to wait until 4:30 pm Central to get my results. And then I found Welltopia (https://www.welltopiarx.com/) in Thiensville, Wisconsin. They had $199 appointments starting at 9:25 am. Waze said I'd be there about 9:10 so I booked the appointment. I took WI 29 east to I-39/US 51 South to US 10 east to US 45 south to I/US 41 south almost to Milwaukee and cut across WI 167 over to Thiensville. It was a quick appointment at this mom and pop pharmacy with friendly staff-the lady even played with my dog while I was filling out paperwork-and we were back on the road around 10 am central time, taking I-43 north back to US 41 where I resumed my normal routing. I had my negative results emailed to me in just over an hour. All-in-all, it cost me a total of 200 miles and 4 hours including stops, and I was able to cross the border that day and get to the cottage around dusk.
and the saga continues:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2021/09/20/us-land-border-restrictions-extended-through-oct-21-canada-mexico/8372075002/
Quote from: kalvado on September 20, 2021, 11:05:29 AM
and the saga continues:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2021/09/20/us-land-border-restrictions-extended-through-oct-21-canada-mexico/8372075002/
Americans are such jerks.
It just doesn't make any sense. Closing borders when Covid was isolated to certain areas was one thing. It's everywhere now and the only way you'll have major impacts (probabilistically) is to be unvaccinated. Australia did a great job for so long isolating itself, but as soon as some got in, since they didn't get an early vaccine rollout, now they have some problems. There's already Covid (and Delta specifically) in the U.S and likewise Canada. Keeping the border closed is kind of ridiculous and doesn't follow the science at all.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 20, 2021, 11:29:05 AM
It just doesn't make any sense. Closing borders when Covid was isolated to certain areas was one thing. It's everywhere now and the only way you'll have major impacts (probabilistically) is to be unvaccinated. Australia did a great job for so long isolating itself, but as soon as some got in, since they didn't get an early vaccine rollout, now they have some problems. There's already Covid (and Delta specifically) in the U.S and likewise Canada. Keeping the border closed is kind of ridiculous and doesn't follow the science at all.
Chris
Putting myself at risk of being nicked for politics, I suspect this may have something to do with it:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/20/us-begins-deportation-flights-haitians-texas-border-town
Using covid-related emergency order would be problematic with open borders.
Quote from: kalvado on September 20, 2021, 11:37:23 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 20, 2021, 11:29:05 AM
It just doesn't make any sense. Closing borders when Covid was isolated to certain areas was one thing. It's everywhere now and the only way you'll have major impacts (probabilistically) is to be unvaccinated. Australia did a great job for so long isolating itself, but as soon as some got in, since they didn't get an early vaccine rollout, now they have some problems. There's already Covid (and Delta specifically) in the U.S and likewise Canada. Keeping the border closed is kind of ridiculous and doesn't follow the science at all.
Chris
Putting myself at risk of being nicked for politics, I suspect this may have something to do with it:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/20/us-begins-deportation-flights-haitians-texas-border-town
Using covid-related emergency order would be problematic with open borders.
I don't see how one is related to the other. Letting vaccinated, documented Canadians in is a small task compared with undocumented people entering illegally.
That's too bad the land border didn't open. I'm not surprised, but it is annoying, I had hoped to drive south while the weather was still decent.
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 11:45:43 AM
Quote from: kalvado on September 20, 2021, 11:37:23 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 20, 2021, 11:29:05 AM
It just doesn't make any sense. Closing borders when Covid was isolated to certain areas was one thing. It's everywhere now and the only way you'll have major impacts (probabilistically) is to be unvaccinated. Australia did a great job for so long isolating itself, but as soon as some got in, since they didn't get an early vaccine rollout, now they have some problems. There's already Covid (and Delta specifically) in the U.S and likewise Canada. Keeping the border closed is kind of ridiculous and doesn't follow the science at all.
Chris
Putting myself at risk of being nicked for politics, I suspect this may have something to do with it:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/20/us-begins-deportation-flights-haitians-texas-border-town
Using covid-related emergency order would be problematic with open borders.
I don't see how one is related to the other. Letting vaccinated, documented Canadians in is a small task compared with undocumented people entering illegally.
Agreed. I'd call this one apples and oranges. A vaccinated Canadian is of far less risk travelling around in the U.S. than an unvaccinated American.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 20, 2021, 11:53:24 AM
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 11:45:43 AM
Quote from: kalvado on September 20, 2021, 11:37:23 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 20, 2021, 11:29:05 AM
It just doesn't make any sense. Closing borders when Covid was isolated to certain areas was one thing. It's everywhere now and the only way you'll have major impacts (probabilistically) is to be unvaccinated. Australia did a great job for so long isolating itself, but as soon as some got in, since they didn't get an early vaccine rollout, now they have some problems. There's already Covid (and Delta specifically) in the U.S and likewise Canada. Keeping the border closed is kind of ridiculous and doesn't follow the science at all.
Chris
Putting myself at risk of being nicked for politics, I suspect this may have something to do with it:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/20/us-begins-deportation-flights-haitians-texas-border-town
Using covid-related emergency order would be problematic with open borders.
I don't see how one is related to the other. Letting vaccinated, documented Canadians in is a small task compared with undocumented people entering illegally.
Agreed. I'd call this one apples and oranges. A vaccinated Canadian is of far less risk travelling around in the U.S. than an unvaccinated American.
Chris
Those expedite deportations are done under emergency health order, assuming other side of the border has all the infection in the world waiting to cross. Once you allow general public to cross the border, it becomes much harder to justify emergency against some gorups but not others
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 20, 2021, 11:29:05 AM
It just doesn't make any sense. Closing borders when Covid was isolated to certain areas was one thing. It's everywhere now and the only way you'll have major impacts (probabilistically) is to be unvaccinated. Australia did a great job for so long isolating itself, but as soon as some got in, since they didn't get an early vaccine rollout, now they have some problems. There's already Covid (and Delta specifically) in the U.S and likewise Canada. Keeping the border closed is kind of ridiculous and doesn't follow the science at all.
Chris
Science has never had anything to do with the measures implemented as a response to COVID. It's been all knee-jerk all the time.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on September 20, 2021, 11:47:13 AM
That's too bad the land border didn't open. I'm not surprised, but it is annoying, I had hoped to drive south while the weather was still decent.
I'm sorry our government is being so xenophobic against our northern friends. I hope someone with political clout pushes the administration to change this entirely incorrect and disgusting policy.
Quote from: zzcarp on September 20, 2021, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 20, 2021, 11:29:05 AM
It just doesn't make any sense. Closing borders when Covid was isolated to certain areas was one thing. It's everywhere now and the only way you'll have major impacts (probabilistically) is to be unvaccinated. Australia did a great job for so long isolating itself, but as soon as some got in, since they didn't get an early vaccine rollout, now they have some problems. There's already Covid (and Delta specifically) in the U.S and likewise Canada. Keeping the border closed is kind of ridiculous and doesn't follow the science at all.
Chris
Science has never had anything to do with the measures implemented as a response to COVID. It's been all knee-jerk all the time.
Trust me, I get it. It's why I have a new career since I got furloughed twice from my food and beverage director position despite the amount of infections revolving around restaurants being very small.
Chris
Covid has been an upsetting time. The 1918 pandemic didn't last forever, and this won't either. I'm still hopeful that covid will be sooner rather than later, call me an optimist but it does seem that progress is (slowly) moving in the right direction.
That article about border closure being extended to October 21 is only one of the announcements today, however. The Biden Admin. also announced that restrictions for travelers from all countries would be eased in early November, with with proof of vaccination required to enter the country. The article talks about flights, but presumably the land borders would open with similar policies at the same time. I continue to maintain that we lagged behind in getting our borders open because of a combination of our unfortunately low vaccination rate, the wave of infections from the Delta Variant, and the need to get a system in place to verify vaccination status. It is very clear that Canada was way ahead of us on that last one.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-administration-ease-restrictions-travelers-us-november/story?id=80125593
Also, pending the results of today's election, Canada's border could be closed again soon as the main opposition candidate has pledged to close to border. Luckily, it does appear more likely that the current Government will remain in power, but we will see.
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 11:45:43 AM
Quote from: kalvado on September 20, 2021, 11:37:23 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 20, 2021, 11:29:05 AM
It just doesn't make any sense. Closing borders when Covid was isolated to certain areas was one thing. It's everywhere now and the only way you'll have major impacts (probabilistically) is to be unvaccinated. Australia did a great job for so long isolating itself, but as soon as some got in, since they didn't get an early vaccine rollout, now they have some problems. There's already Covid (and Delta specifically) in the U.S and likewise Canada. Keeping the border closed is kind of ridiculous and doesn't follow the science at all.
Chris
Putting myself at risk of being nicked for politics, I suspect this may have something to do with it:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/20/us-begins-deportation-flights-haitians-texas-border-town
Using covid-related emergency order would be problematic with open borders.
I don't see how one is related to the other. Letting vaccinated, documented Canadians in is a small task compared with undocumented people entering illegally.
Optics. The southern border is incredibly politicized. Keeping that one closed (while there's a ton of attention on it), while opening the northern border, opens the current administration to accusations of racist policy.
Not saying it's right or it makes sense, just that it's the environment we're in.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on September 20, 2021, 04:05:22 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 11:45:43 AM
Quote from: kalvado on September 20, 2021, 11:37:23 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 20, 2021, 11:29:05 AM
It just doesn't make any sense. Closing borders when Covid was isolated to certain areas was one thing. It's everywhere now and the only way you'll have major impacts (probabilistically) is to be unvaccinated. Australia did a great job for so long isolating itself, but as soon as some got in, since they didn't get an early vaccine rollout, now they have some problems. There's already Covid (and Delta specifically) in the U.S and likewise Canada. Keeping the border closed is kind of ridiculous and doesn't follow the science at all.
Chris
Putting myself at risk of being nicked for politics, I suspect this may have something to do with it:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/20/us-begins-deportation-flights-haitians-texas-border-town
Using covid-related emergency order would be problematic with open borders.
I don't see how one is related to the other. Letting vaccinated, documented Canadians in is a small task compared with undocumented people entering illegally.
Optics. The southern border is incredibly politicized. Keeping that one closed (while there's a ton of attention on it), while opening the northern border, opens the current administration to accusations of racist policy.
Not saying it's right or it makes sense, just that it's the environment we're in.
Right. The idiocracy continues.
I entered Canada and Wednesday and got the full experience: 30 minutes of questioning, watching my car get torn apart for drugs (none found, of course), and then handed a COVID self-test kit because I was one of the unlucky travelers who would need to take an extra test. It took forever to find a FedEx in suburban Vancouver that would take the test for shipping, since it was a biohazard.
Quote from: Bruce on September 20, 2021, 04:31:52 PM
I entered Canada and Wednesday and got the full experience: 30 minutes of questioning, watching my car get torn apart for drugs (none found, of course), and then handed a COVID self-test kit because I was one of the unlucky travelers who would need to take an extra test. It took forever to find a FedEx in suburban Vancouver that would take the test for shipping, since it was a biohazard.
You're supposed to go through Purolator.
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
Quote from: kalvado on September 20, 2021, 11:05:29 AM
and the saga continues:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2021/09/20/us-land-border-restrictions-extended-through-oct-21-canada-mexico/8372075002/
Americans are such jerks.
No, we're trying to protect Canadians from our COVID-infested masses.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on September 20, 2021, 07:12:38 PM
Quote from: Bruce on September 20, 2021, 04:31:52 PM
I entered Canada and Wednesday and got the full experience: 30 minutes of questioning, watching my car get torn apart for drugs (none found, of course), and then handed a COVID self-test kit because I was one of the unlucky travelers who would need to take an extra test. It took forever to find a FedEx in suburban Vancouver that would take the test for shipping, since it was a biohazard.
You're supposed to go through Purolator.
The handout I got said to use a FedEx approved shipper but provided no information beyond that. Considering there's only one Purolator in all of Langley, BC, and it has limited hours, it would have been a bad move.
Quote from: Alps on September 20, 2021, 07:23:32 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
Quote from: kalvado on September 20, 2021, 11:05:29 AM
and the saga continues:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2021/09/20/us-land-border-restrictions-extended-through-oct-21-canada-mexico/8372075002/
Americans are such jerks.
No, we're trying to protect Canadians from our COVID-infested masses.
Well-played.
I'm now in college, which is 300 km away from home, which means that if I wanted to cross the border, it'll be a different crossing than what I would be crossing at home. I'm quite curious how it is on this part of the border compared to busy Niagara Falls crossings. I also would like to visit some new places I never have been. (the town across this border is Watertown, NY) I'd also like to clinch some new roads lol. I had planned to make a trip over the border some time, but the border is still closed. :/
The US border is opening on Nov. 8 for fully vaccinated travellers! No COVID test required upon entry at land borders, but they'll still be required for entering the US via plane.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/us-canada-border-november-8-1.6212093 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/us-canada-border-november-8-1.6212093)
YAY!!!!
For now it sounds like you will need a test to return to Canada, though.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on October 15, 2021, 04:13:25 PM
For now it sounds like you will need a test to return to Canada, though.
I gotta hope they'll let Canadians do the rapid test on the other side of the border (the one used for random testing, I believe).
I was in BC again with my girlfriend from Sunday to Tuesday. I was surprised by the uptick in mask-wearing. When I was last up in August, it was about 50/50 at a lot of places.
Since vaccine proof is required at virtually every restaurant and private entity (shopping centers notwithstanding), I showed my scanned vaccine card quite a bit. People weren't too impressed with the lack of any application on the part of the US government. One host straight-up said, "the BC app is a lot better" (to which I assume he means way clearer than my complete lack of an app.)
Apparently I'd need a covid test to get back into Canada even after the border reopens... That kinda sucks because a travel covid test costs about $150 so it's kind of not worth it.
Quote from: jakeroot on October 15, 2021, 10:27:03 PM
People weren't too impressed with the lack of any application on the part of the US government. One host straight-up said, "the BC app is a lot better" (to which I assume he means way clearer than my complete lack of an app.)
You could've told them that only a few U.S. states have "vaccine passport" apps -- about as many states that forbid them. (No national app on either side of the border -- it's up to the provinces in Canada, and the states in the U.S.)
One of the provinces I visited earlier this month, Quebec, has rolled out a vaccine passport app (the other, Ontario, was still working on it when I was there). However, the Quebec app is available only to Quebec residents, maybe it's tied to a provincial database with vax information. Non-residents can just present paper proof of vaccination, along with proof of non-residency. I don't know if Quebec makes similar accommodations for residents without smartphones.
Quote from: oscar on October 17, 2021, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 15, 2021, 10:27:03 PM
People weren't too impressed with the lack of any application on the part of the US government. One host straight-up said, "the BC app is a lot better" (to which I assume he means way clearer than my complete lack of an app.)
You could've told them that only a few U.S. states have "vaccine passport" apps -- about as many states that forbid them. (No national app on either side of the border -- it's up to the provinces in Canada, and the states in the U.S.)
One of the provinces I visited earlier this month, Quebec, has rolled out a vaccine passport app (the other, Ontario, was still working on it when I was there). However, the Quebec app is available only to Quebec residents, maybe it's tied to a provincial database with vax information. Non-residents can just present paper proof of vaccination, along with proof of non-residency. I don't know if Quebec makes similar accommodations for residents without smartphones.
Similar story for PEI. Only PEI residents can use their app so I just had to show my card everywhere I went.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on October 17, 2021, 06:51:32 PM
Quote from: oscar on October 17, 2021, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 15, 2021, 10:27:03 PM
People weren't too impressed with the lack of any application on the part of the US government. One host straight-up said, "the BC app is a lot better" (to which I assume he means way clearer than my complete lack of an app.)
You could've told them that only a few U.S. states have "vaccine passport" apps -- about as many states that forbid them. (No national app on either side of the border -- it's up to the provinces in Canada, and the states in the U.S.)
One of the provinces I visited earlier this month, Quebec, has rolled out a vaccine passport app (the other, Ontario, was still working on it when I was there). However, the Quebec app is available only to Quebec residents, maybe it's tied to a provincial database with vax information. Non-residents can just present paper proof of vaccination, along with proof of non-residency. I don't know if Quebec makes similar accommodations for residents without smartphones.
Similar story for PEI. Only PEI residents can use their app so I just had to show my card everywhere I went.
Chris
An idea behind those apps that encrypted QR code doesn't require database access to be shared, only encryption key should be confirmed. In principle, all such keys could be shared between jurisdictions without too much concern, and apps could be cross-recognized. I believe Europe is actually doing that. Someone may try scanning NY app in QC and see what happens
Quote from: kalvado on October 17, 2021, 06:58:09 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on October 17, 2021, 06:51:32 PM
Quote from: oscar on October 17, 2021, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 15, 2021, 10:27:03 PM
People weren't too impressed with the lack of any application on the part of the US government. One host straight-up said, "the BC app is a lot better" (to which I assume he means way clearer than my complete lack of an app.)
You could've told them that only a few U.S. states have "vaccine passport" apps -- about as many states that forbid them. (No national app on either side of the border -- it's up to the provinces in Canada, and the states in the U.S.)
One of the provinces I visited earlier this month, Quebec, has rolled out a vaccine passport app (the other, Ontario, was still working on it when I was there). However, the Quebec app is available only to Quebec residents, maybe it's tied to a provincial database with vax information. Non-residents can just present paper proof of vaccination, along with proof of non-residency. I don't know if Quebec makes similar accommodations for residents without smartphones.
Similar story for PEI. Only PEI residents can use their app so I just had to show my card everywhere I went.
Chris
An idea behind those apps that encrypted QR code doesn't require database access to be shared, only encryption key should be confirmed. In principle, all such keys could be shared between jurisdictions without too much concern, and apps could be cross-recognized. I believe Europe is actually doing that. Someone may try scanning NY app in QC and see what happens
Right, and computer networks never fail.
Quote from: kkt on October 17, 2021, 07:11:17 PM
Quote from: kalvado on October 17, 2021, 06:58:09 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on October 17, 2021, 06:51:32 PM
Quote from: oscar on October 17, 2021, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 15, 2021, 10:27:03 PM
People weren't too impressed with the lack of any application on the part of the US government. One host straight-up said, "the BC app is a lot better" (to which I assume he means way clearer than my complete lack of an app.)
You could've told them that only a few U.S. states have "vaccine passport" apps -- about as many states that forbid them. (No national app on either side of the border -- it's up to the provinces in Canada, and the states in the U.S.)
One of the provinces I visited earlier this month, Quebec, has rolled out a vaccine passport app (the other, Ontario, was still working on it when I was there). However, the Quebec app is available only to Quebec residents, maybe it's tied to a provincial database with vax information. Non-residents can just present paper proof of vaccination, along with proof of non-residency. I don't know if Quebec makes similar accommodations for residents without smartphones.
Similar story for PEI. Only PEI residents can use their app so I just had to show my card everywhere I went.
Chris
An idea behind those apps that encrypted QR code doesn't require database access to be shared, only encryption key should be confirmed. In principle, all such keys could be shared between jurisdictions without too much concern, and apps could be cross-recognized. I believe Europe is actually doing that. Someone may try scanning NY app in QC and see what happens
Right, and computer networks never fail.
There is no need for the network to be involved.
My QR code would have a secure message "Kalvado, DOB 02-29-1977, vaccination valid till 04-31-2022" signed by NYS digital signature.
All that the scanner needs to know is that the NYS signature is a valid one - uploaded to scanner when/if NYS and QC signed some legal document, and provided each other signature certificates.
Scanner base of signatures may need periodic updates - signatures for new entrants, or if signature is compromised by the data breach - but that doesn't have to be a frequent thing. Once a day or once a week/month, maybe, nothing like being online to verify.
Quote from: oscar on October 17, 2021, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 15, 2021, 10:27:03 PM
People weren't too impressed with the lack of any application on the part of the US government. One host straight-up said, "the BC app is a lot better" (to which I assume he means way clearer than my complete lack of an app.)
You could've told them that only a few U.S. states have "vaccine passport" apps -- about as many states that forbid them. (No national app on either side of the border -- it's up to the provinces in Canada, and the states in the U.S.)
One of the provinces I visited earlier this month, Quebec, has rolled out a vaccine passport app (the other, Ontario, was still working on it when I was there). However, the Quebec app is available only to Quebec residents, maybe it's tied to a provincial database with vax information. Non-residents can just present paper proof of vaccination, along with proof of non-residency. I don't know if Quebec makes similar accommodations for residents without smartphones.
Plus even the states that have electronic systems are using the app as a convenience for people who don't want to bring their card everywhere - not as a required replacement for the card.
Quote from: vdeane on October 17, 2021, 09:32:24 PM
Quote from: oscar on October 17, 2021, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 15, 2021, 10:27:03 PM
People weren't too impressed with the lack of any application on the part of the US government. One host straight-up said, "the BC app is a lot better" (to which I assume he means way clearer than my complete lack of an app.)
You could've told them that only a few U.S. states have "vaccine passport" apps -- about as many states that forbid them. (No national app on either side of the border -- it's up to the provinces in Canada, and the states in the U.S.)
One of the provinces I visited earlier this month, Quebec, has rolled out a vaccine passport app (the other, Ontario, was still working on it when I was there). However, the Quebec app is available only to Quebec residents, maybe it's tied to a provincial database with vax information. Non-residents can just present paper proof of vaccination, along with proof of non-residency. I don't know if Quebec makes similar accommodations for residents without smartphones.
Plus even the states that have electronic systems are using the app as a convenience for people who don't want to bring their card everywhere - not as a required replacement for the card.
Did you ever had to show the app?
The only case when I had to present mine was for HR, and they didn't have any tools beyond naked eye to verify information, basically taking my word for everything once I flashed the app.
I've never had to set up the app. I have my card in my wallet should I ever need it, but the only time I have ever needed it was to scan it for work when the state mandate went into effect.
A stupid question for those who was in Canada for a short trip:
Can you use same test to cross the border both ways if you're in Canada for a day or so and return to US within 72 hours of testing?
Quote from: kalvado on October 22, 2021, 01:58:11 PM
A stupid question for those who was in Canada for a short trip:
Can you use same test to cross the border both ways if you're in Canada for a day or so and return to US within 72 hours of testing?
No test is required to enter the U.S.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on October 22, 2021, 02:00:23 PM
Quote from: kalvado on October 22, 2021, 01:58:11 PM
A stupid question for those who was in Canada for a short trip:
Can you use same test to cross the border both ways if you're in Canada for a day or so and return to US within 72 hours of testing?
No test is required to enter the U.S.
Chris
Last I checked, it's required to enter by air - but it isn't by land. Not sure if you can use the same test both ways if you're flying.
Quote from: Evan_Th on October 22, 2021, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on October 22, 2021, 02:00:23 PM
Quote from: kalvado on October 22, 2021, 01:58:11 PM
A stupid question for those who was in Canada for a short trip:
Can you use same test to cross the border both ways if you're in Canada for a day or so and return to US within 72 hours of testing?
No test is required to enter the U.S.
Chris
Last I checked, it's required to enter by air - but it isn't by land. Not sure if you can use the same test both ways if you're flying.
You're right. I was thinking "short trip" and the fact we're on a roads forum meant driving across. I shouldn't assume.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on October 22, 2021, 02:30:31 PM
Quote from: Evan_Th on October 22, 2021, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on October 22, 2021, 02:00:23 PM
Quote from: kalvado on October 22, 2021, 01:58:11 PM
A stupid question for those who was in Canada for a short trip:
Can you use same test to cross the border both ways if you're in Canada for a day or so and return to US within 72 hours of testing?
No test is required to enter the U.S.
Chris
Last I checked, it's required to enter by air - but it isn't by land. Not sure if you can use the same test both ways if you're flying.
You're right. I was thinking "short trip" and the fact we're on a roads forum meant driving across. I shouldn't assume.
Chris
Actually you assumed correctly, I am thinking about a drive to Montreal. Thanks for response.
But someone else may have different circumstances, though.
Quote from: andrepoiy on October 17, 2021, 06:00:08 PM
Apparently I'd need a covid test to get back into Canada even after the border reopens... That kinda sucks because a travel covid test costs about $150 so it's kind of not worth it.
Until things are (hopefully) normal again, I don't see myself visiting Canada anytime soon. It basically seems as if you can go if you really want to, but that they make it difficult enough that you sort of know you aren't really welcome there, and to where it's just not worth it.
Mexico is as easy as ever to get into by land from what I've heard. Of course you have to wear a mask depending on where you are at, but that's not a big deal. I am hoping to make it south of the border later this winter.
Quote from: US 41 on November 10, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: andrepoiy on October 17, 2021, 06:00:08 PM
Apparently I'd need a covid test to get back into Canada even after the border reopens... That kinda sucks because a travel covid test costs about $150 so it's kind of not worth it.
Until things are (hopefully) normal again, I don't see myself visiting Canada anytime soon. It basically seems as if you can go if you really want to, but that they make it difficult enough that you sort of know you aren't really welcome there, and to where it's just not worth it.
Mexico is as easy as ever to get into by land from what I've heard. Of course you have to wear a mask depending on where you are at, but that's not a big deal. I am hoping to make it south of the border later this winter.
I found going across very easy and I felt 100% welcomed. ArriveCan is a snap. The individual provinces that required extra info (PEI and New Brunswick) were easy too. Only real "headache" was making sure I had a Covid test less than 72 hours from me being in Canada. I was just worried I wouldn't get the results in time, but part of that was my own routing where I was driving there from Philly and didn't know exactly what time I would get there, so I had to put a little buffer in.
At the border between Vermont and Quebec, I was actually at the border control station for less than 3 minutes, which is 100% a record for me entering Canada.
Chris
Considering how easy it is to get a free covid test at a pharmacy in the US, I wouldn't really worry to much about visiting Canada.
I suspect that Canada is going to relax its testing requirements for vaccinated travelers in the coming weeks as well.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on November 10, 2021, 10:26:44 PM
Considering how easy it is to get a free covid test at a pharmacy in the US, I wouldn't really worry to much about visiting Canada.
I suspect that Canada is going to relax its testing requirements for vaccinated travelers in the coming weeks as well.
Getting the test is easy. Getting the results back in time for their 72-hour window does cause some nail-biting.
Yeah, I can get a test done prior to going to Canada, and try to time it right. So far, no issue. But getting one while in Canada to get back in seems like a pain in the ass.
Speaking of which: I'm not required to get a COVID test to return to the US, right?
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2021, 10:36:27 PM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on November 10, 2021, 10:26:44 PM
Considering how easy it is to get a free covid test at a pharmacy in the US, I wouldn't really worry to much about visiting Canada.
I suspect that Canada is going to relax its testing requirements for vaccinated travelers in the coming weeks as well.
Getting the test is easy. Getting the results back in time for their 72-hour window does cause some nail-biting.
Canada accepts NAAT tests, so you can order a rapid test from Walgreens and get the results back in about two hours. Or at least that was my experience earlier today.
https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/flying-canada-checklist/covid-19-testing-travellers-coming-into-canada
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on November 10, 2021, 11:49:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2021, 10:36:27 PM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on November 10, 2021, 10:26:44 PM
Considering how easy it is to get a free covid test at a pharmacy in the US, I wouldn't really worry to much about visiting Canada.
I suspect that Canada is going to relax its testing requirements for vaccinated travelers in the coming weeks as well.
Getting the test is easy. Getting the results back in time for their 72-hour window does cause some nail-biting.
Canada accepts NAAT tests, so you can order a rapid test from Walgreens and get the results back in about two hours. Or at least that was my experience earlier today.
https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/flying-canada-checklist/covid-19-testing-travellers-coming-into-canada
Ah, I see. That wasn't the case a couple of months ago when they only took PCRs.
Fair enough, I only have recent experience since the land border only opened to me earlier this week.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 10, 2021, 10:50:30 PM
Yeah, I can get a test done prior to going to Canada, and try to time it right. So far, no issue. But getting one while in Canada to get back in seems like a pain in the ass.
Speaking of which: I'm not required to get a COVID test to return to the US, right?
Right, if you're a U.S. citizen returning at a land crossing. I did that last month at International Falls MN, not a peep about any Covid requirements.
When I crossed at the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel on Monday the agent only asked me about being vaccinated as an afterthought and didn't ask to see any proof. He did ask me if I had a test for my return trip to Canada and then let me know that I could probably be tested for free in the US.
I was the first car in line at the border station on Monday. I'm not sure if I've ever had an easier crossing interview. The border guard didn't ask me any details at all about my trip.
Quote from: oscar on November 10, 2021, 11:56:51 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 10, 2021, 10:50:30 PM
Yeah, I can get a test done prior to going to Canada, and try to time it right. So far, no issue. But getting one while in Canada to get back in seems like a pain in the ass.
Speaking of which: I'm not required to get a COVID test to return to the US, right?
Right, if you're a U.S. citizen returning at a land crossing. I did that last month at International Falls MN, not a peep about any Covid requirements.
I've been through twice (August and early October) before the border had opened to Canadians, and I had to present a test to enter Canada but no rule existed yet for Americans.
My concern was that, with reopening the border to everyone, the US ports of entry would now require COVID tests. So I'd have to get tested to enter Canada, and then get tested in Canada to return to the US.
Just came back from a trip to Canada few hours ago.
My friend and I were randomly selected for the mail-in COVID testing yet again, but this time all of the valid dropoff points (at privately run postal businesses) were closed due to the Remembrance Day holiday. Had to just drop it off at a Canada Post box and just hope for the best, though I doubt it will get delivered properly.
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2021, 10:36:27 PM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on November 10, 2021, 10:26:44 PM
Considering how easy it is to get a free covid test at a pharmacy in the US, I wouldn't really worry to much about visiting Canada.
I suspect that Canada is going to relax its testing requirements for vaccinated travelers in the coming weeks as well.
Getting the test is easy. Getting the results back in time for their 72-hour window does cause some nail-biting.
Not to mention worrying about the test randomly coming back positive, and then needing to not only cancel your trip at the last minute but contend domestically with all the
other drama testing positive entails.
It is for this reason that I'm not interested in leaving the country until the testing requirement goes away. Not taking that risk.
Quote from: Duke87 on November 14, 2021, 03:49:16 PM
Not to mention worrying about the test randomly coming back positive, and then needing to not only cancel your trip at the last minute but contend domestically with all the other drama testing positive entails.
It is for this reason that I'm not interested in leaving the country until the testing requirement goes away. Not taking that risk.
I was concerned enough about a surprise false positive test that before I went in for my test, I spent several hours shopping for groceries, to have on hand most of the supplies I would need for a 10-day quarantine. In the early stages of the pandemic, I took similar precautions ahead of domestic travel, in case my state unexpectedly escalated its Covid-19 restrictions while I was out of state.
But none of this stopped me from traveling, once I was no longer under a stay at home order (in my case, that expired in late May 2020).
Quote from: Duke87 on November 14, 2021, 03:49:16 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2021, 10:36:27 PM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on November 10, 2021, 10:26:44 PM
Considering how easy it is to get a free covid test at a pharmacy in the US, I wouldn't really worry to much about visiting Canada.
I suspect that Canada is going to relax its testing requirements for vaccinated travelers in the coming weeks as well.
Getting the test is easy. Getting the results back in time for their 72-hour window does cause some nail-biting.
Not to mention worrying about the test randomly coming back positive, and then needing to not only cancel your trip at the last minute but contend domestically with all the other drama testing positive entails.
It is for this reason that I'm not interested in leaving the country until the testing requirement goes away. Not taking that risk.
Plus it apparently costs $100. So it involves spending a decent amount of money while you're praying that the results come back in time and potentially testing positive, which would not only cancel the trip but blow up your life as well. That certainly does not sound appealing. I'm not planning to cross either until things normalize.
Quote from: vdeane on November 14, 2021, 09:54:41 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 14, 2021, 03:49:16 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2021, 10:36:27 PM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on November 10, 2021, 10:26:44 PM
Considering how easy it is to get a free covid test at a pharmacy in the US, I wouldn't really worry to much about visiting Canada.
I suspect that Canada is going to relax its testing requirements for vaccinated travelers in the coming weeks as well.
Getting the test is easy. Getting the results back in time for their 72-hour window does cause some nail-biting.
Not to mention worrying about the test randomly coming back positive, and then needing to not only cancel your trip at the last minute but contend domestically with all the other drama testing positive entails.
It is for this reason that I'm not interested in leaving the country until the testing requirement goes away. Not taking that risk.
Plus it apparently costs $100. So it involves spending a decent amount of money while you're praying that the results come back in time and potentially testing positive, which would not only cancel the trip but blow up your life as well. That certainly does not sound appealing. I'm not planning to cross either until things normalize.
Insurance covered the cost for me -- 100%. Not sure if they're still free for the uninsured, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.
Two things of note, given recent conversation:
- Vermont offers free COVID testing through the state's health department website. Had one this weekend, and although they say to give 2-3 days to get results back, I got mine back in about 24 hours.
- Saw a Quebec plate "in the wild" on my way home from work tonight.
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
I got my test in Albany 2 weeks ago. It came through Walgreens, system where I normally get my prescriptions. No hard-to-answer questions asked either at Walgreens or at the border. It is to be seen if I get any billing, though.
99% sure that all normal Covid testing is free. There was some random place that popped up near my old job that had a drive through tent that was charging a bunch but no one ever went there. Not sure what the rationale was.
Chris
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
I got my free test specifically to go to Canada.
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
This sounds like this testing provider was charging a fee to expedite it. I.e. getting the test is free, guaranteeing you'll have results in time to go to Canada with them is not.
Given that a lot of places near the border have growing backlogs due to demand for Canada travel it makes sense that someone would start doing this.
Quote from: Duke87 on November 15, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
This sounds like this testing provider was charging a fee to expedite it. I.e. getting the test is free, guaranteeing you'll have results in time to go to Canada with them is not.
Given that a lot of places near the border have growing backlogs due to demand for Canada travel it makes sense that someone would start doing this.
Makes me wonder if that's even possible. A lot of testing locations around here are clear that you may not receive your results in time.
I got the free test about 60 hours before the Canadian border and results were in hand within about 30 of those hours. I'm expecting to do the same for upcoming intl travel. (Even if it takes a few hours more, I can use airport wifi for it.)
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2021, 07:03:07 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 15, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
This sounds like this testing provider was charging a fee to expedite it. I.e. getting the test is free, guaranteeing you'll have results in time to go to Canada with them is not.
Given that a lot of places near the border have growing backlogs due to demand for Canada travel it makes sense that someone would start doing this.
Makes me wonder if that's even possible. A lot of testing locations around here are clear that you may not receive your results in time.
There are different tests. Basic PCR is overnighted into central lab and turned around in about 24 hours after arrival. There was a chart I cannot find right now, showing dips to 9 hours and climbs to 40 hours.
An alternative is a rapid test, which has a bit higher list price. I believe it is run on premises, 24 hours is promised - and I actually got results within 3 hours. And yes, ID NOW is accepted for Canada travel.
ID NOW?
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2021, 07:55:52 PM
ID NOW?
Go to walgreens.com and try to schedule a test. Dark red shows sites with that option available.
It is NAATs test and it is acceptable for Canada travel. Test itself is 13 minutes, and I believe is done on site.
I'm a Canadian, and I got a free test in the US. Twice.
Testing is free for the uninsured.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on November 15, 2021, 08:35:04 PM
I'm a Canadian, and I got a free test in the US. Twice.
Testing is free for the uninsured.
Commie Moocher from the North!
It's American to go north and take advantage of your health system. Not the other way around!
The tides have turned!
Quote from: Duke87 on November 15, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
This sounds like this testing provider was charging a fee to expedite it. I.e. getting the test is free, guaranteeing you'll have results in time to go to Canada with them is not.
Medically necessary testing is generally available at no out-of-pocket expense to the person being tested. (They're usually still paying, through some combination of health insurance premiums or tax dollars.)
Testing for travel, however, is not medically necessary. It's supposed to be paid for by the traveler, but it seems like many places aren't currently bothering to make that distinction (or they realize that a high percentage of travelers will just lie to get the "free" test).
I've now done two trips up to Canada since the border reopened. Both times, I was able to get a free PCR test at the local drive-up site (operated by Snohomish County and run by UW Medicine) with the result back in 30 hours. Printed out the test receipt for the border agent the second time to avoid having to hand over my phone.
Both times I got randomly selected for extra testing, which was a hassle. Turns out no one will take biohazard-marked packages on a holiday like Remembrance Day.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on November 16, 2021, 12:13:16 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 15, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
This sounds like this testing provider was charging a fee to expedite it. I.e. getting the test is free, guaranteeing you'll have results in time to go to Canada with them is not.
Medically necessary testing is generally available at no out-of-pocket expense to the person being tested. (They're usually still paying, through some combination of health insurance premiums or tax dollars.)
Testing for travel, however, is not medically necessary. It's supposed to be paid for by the traveler, but it seems like many places aren't currently bothering to make that distinction (or they realize that a high percentage of travelers will just lie to get the "free" test).
Some time before vaccine, testing rate and positivity rate became figures of merit. Since most healthy people are not willing to stick strange objects down the nose or throat without good reason, pushing healthy people into testing became the thing. We have to be tested periodically at work (weekly unvaccinated, biweekly vaccinated). Previously it was billed to insurance, I believe; now someone else pays and I even don't get any results. I am sure positive one will trigger something. It is cheap pooled test not good for travel though.
Sheer gaming with numbers, from my perspective. Not even good for surveillance as people commute pretty widely. And there is sewage testing to be used for much better surveillance after all
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on November 16, 2021, 12:13:16 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 15, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
This sounds like this testing provider was charging a fee to expedite it. I.e. getting the test is free, guaranteeing you'll have results in time to go to Canada with them is not.
Medically necessary testing is generally available at no out-of-pocket expense to the person being tested. (They're usually still paying, through some combination of health insurance premiums or tax dollars.)
Testing for travel, however, is not medically necessary. It's supposed to be paid for by the traveler, but it seems like many places aren't currently bothering to make that distinction (or they realize that a high percentage of travelers will just lie to get the "free" test).
*citation needed*
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2021, 06:51:06 AM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on November 16, 2021, 12:13:16 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 15, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
This sounds like this testing provider was charging a fee to expedite it. I.e. getting the test is free, guaranteeing you'll have results in time to go to Canada with them is not.
Medically necessary testing is generally available at no out-of-pocket expense to the person being tested. (They're usually still paying, through some combination of health insurance premiums or tax dollars.)
Testing for travel, however, is not medically necessary. It's supposed to be paid for by the traveler, but it seems like many places aren't currently bothering to make that distinction (or they realize that a high percentage of travelers will just lie to get the "free" test).
*citation needed*
https://www.sentinelsource.com/news/local/medically-necessary-gray-area-complicates-covid-test-coverage/article_bd0b31a8-72ec-5759-9198-e67624223d04.html
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2021, 06:58:52 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2021, 06:51:06 AM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on November 16, 2021, 12:13:16 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 15, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
This sounds like this testing provider was charging a fee to expedite it. I.e. getting the test is free, guaranteeing you'll have results in time to go to Canada with them is not.
Medically necessary testing is generally available at no out-of-pocket expense to the person being tested. (They're usually still paying, through some combination of health insurance premiums or tax dollars.)
Testing for travel, however, is not medically necessary. It's supposed to be paid for by the traveler, but it seems like many places aren't currently bothering to make that distinction (or they realize that a high percentage of travelers will just lie to get the "free" test).
*citation needed*
https://www.sentinelsource.com/news/local/medically-necessary-gray-area-complicates-covid-test-coverage/article_bd0b31a8-72ec-5759-9198-e67624223d04.html
*citation still needed*
That article shows that there is confusion in NH, which one provider is taking advantage of. As the article goes on to explain, pretty much every test should be considered "medically necessary"...as they evidently are in nearby NY...
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2021, 06:51:06 AM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on November 16, 2021, 12:13:16 AMTesting for travel, however, is not medically necessary. It's supposed to be paid for by the traveler, but it seems like many places aren't currently bothering to make that distinction (or they realize that a high percentage of travelers will just lie to get the "free" test).
*citation needed*
My username, indicating my profession, should be sufficient. :)
The tests are not free. They are costing someone somewhere down the road.
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2021, 08:01:31 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2021, 06:58:52 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2021, 06:51:06 AM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on November 16, 2021, 12:13:16 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 15, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
It might vary by state, testing site, and insurance. Now, what I've heard was third-hand, but the person was saying that the charge was specifically because the test was for travel to Canada. Presumably tests for other reasons were still free.
This sounds like this testing provider was charging a fee to expedite it. I.e. getting the test is free, guaranteeing you'll have results in time to go to Canada with them is not.
Medically necessary testing is generally available at no out-of-pocket expense to the person being tested. (They're usually still paying, through some combination of health insurance premiums or tax dollars.)
Testing for travel, however, is not medically necessary. It's supposed to be paid for by the traveler, but it seems like many places aren't currently bothering to make that distinction (or they realize that a high percentage of travelers will just lie to get the "free" test).
*citation needed*
https://www.sentinelsource.com/news/local/medically-necessary-gray-area-complicates-covid-test-coverage/article_bd0b31a8-72ec-5759-9198-e67624223d04.html
*citation still needed*
That article shows that there is confusion in NH, which one provider is taking advantage of. As the article goes on to explain, pretty much every test should be considered "medically necessary"...as they evidently are in nearby NY...
I would say that article shows policy and regulations inconsistency. You may argue whatever you want - but what if you get a bill in the mail? And what if it goes to collectors?
And what if you need to take a trip on a short notice? Walk-in fast testing in JFK (which is in NY!) is $250.
So it is not that simple.
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2021, 08:01:31 AMThat article shows that there is confusion in NH, which one provider is taking advantage of. As the article goes on to explain, pretty much every test should be considered "medically necessary"...as they evidently are in nearby NY...
Technically the article is pointing out that as a matter of public policy the powers that be are pressuring providers to not enforce the medical necessity point when it comes to paying for testing.
However, this will probably change, as we continue to shift from "global public health emergency" to "living with an endemic disease".
Testing for travel is not medically necessary testing (with the exception of travel that is itself medically necessary). Medical insurance is not intended to cover business or recreational travel expenses.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on November 16, 2021, 11:20:12 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2021, 08:01:31 AMThat article shows that there is confusion in NH, which one provider is taking advantage of. As the article goes on to explain, pretty much every test should be considered "medically necessary"...as they evidently are in nearby NY...
Technically the article is pointing out that as a matter of public policy the powers that be are pressuring providers to not enforce the medical necessity point when it comes to paying for testing.
However, this will probably change, as we continue to shift from "global public health emergency" to "living with an endemic disease".
Testing for travel is not medically necessary testing (with the exception of travel that is itself medically necessary). Medical insurance is not intended to cover business or recreational travel expenses.
I thought covid expenses are reimbursed to insurers by federal government?
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2021, 11:26:37 AM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on November 16, 2021, 11:20:12 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2021, 08:01:31 AMThat article shows that there is confusion in NH, which one provider is taking advantage of. As the article goes on to explain, pretty much every test should be considered "medically necessary"...as they evidently are in nearby NY...
Technically the article is pointing out that as a matter of public policy the powers that be are pressuring providers to not enforce the medical necessity point when it comes to paying for testing.
However, this will probably change, as we continue to shift from "global public health emergency" to "living with an endemic disease".
Testing for travel is not medically necessary testing (with the exception of travel that is itself medically necessary). Medical insurance is not intended to cover business or recreational travel expenses.
I thought covid expenses are reimbursed to insurers by federal government?
Nope. Under current executive orders, insurers must pay for all tests without regard for medical necessity as a matter of public policy. The feds pick up the tab only for the uninsured (or, as a practical matter, in those cases where insurance information is either not asked for or not provided) and those covered under federal health plans/programs.
Quote from: froggie on November 14, 2021, 11:40:02 PM
- Saw a Quebec plate "in the wild" on my way home from work tonight.
Saw my first Ontario plate last night since early 2020!
pff, I know there was at least one Ontario plate in Pittsburgh this time last week. (It was mine)
I might actually visit the Great White North next week to inject a lot of money into the Niagara Peninsula's economy. I get tested weekly through work, so I should have a PCR test dated ~48 hours before crossing.
My biggest question is how much they'll scrutinize my quarantine plan. As I'm daytripping from Buffalo, I won't have a Canadian address to put down. Will they be okay with me saying "return to Buffalo" if I'm just entering for the day in a private vehicle? Everything else will be in check, but that quarantine plan gives me anxiety.
Quote from: cl94 on November 18, 2021, 04:34:21 PM
I might actually visit the Great White North next week to inject a lot of money into the Niagara Peninsula's economy. I get tested weekly through work, so I should have a PCR test dated ~48 hours before crossing.
My biggest question is how much they'll scrutinize my quarantine plan. As I'm daytripping from Buffalo, I won't have a Canadian address to put down. Will they be okay with me saying "return to Buffalo" if I'm just entering for the day in a private vehicle? Everything else will be in check, but that quarantine plan gives me anxiety.
Just literally pick a hotel. When I went on my trip, I wasn't planning on spending more than one night anywhere. I just used the first hotel I stayed in as my quarantine plan.
Quote from: cl94 on November 18, 2021, 04:34:21 PM
I might actually visit the Great White North next week to inject a lot of money into the Niagara Peninsula's economy. I get tested weekly through work, so I should have a PCR test dated ~48 hours before crossing.
My biggest question is how much they'll scrutinize my quarantine plan. As I'm daytripping from Buffalo, I won't have a Canadian address to put down. Will they be okay with me saying "return to Buffalo" if I'm just entering for the day in a private vehicle? Everything else will be in check, but that quarantine plan gives me anxiety.
I've put "quarantine at home" and my US address. Since I planed only a day trip (well, 29 hours was it), I assumed I would just turn around in case of any issues.
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 18, 2021, 04:43:02 PM
Quote from: cl94 on November 18, 2021, 04:34:21 PM
I might actually visit the Great White North next week to inject a lot of money into the Niagara Peninsula's economy. I get tested weekly through work, so I should have a PCR test dated ~48 hours before crossing.
My biggest question is how much they'll scrutinize my quarantine plan. As I'm daytripping from Buffalo, I won't have a Canadian address to put down. Will they be okay with me saying "return to Buffalo" if I'm just entering for the day in a private vehicle? Everything else will be in check, but that quarantine plan gives me anxiety.
Just literally pick a hotel. When I went on my trip, I wasn't planning on spending more than one night anywhere. I just used the first hotel I stayed in as my quarantine plan.
I did that, listing the hotel in Hamilton ON where I had a one-night reservation. I wasn't asked about the quarantine plan. The ArriveCan app indicated the only possible issue for the border agent was with proof of vaccination, possibly the app expects to see different documents for the first and second shots, which seems to be SOP in Canada, but in the U.S. both shots can be on one card (and indeed after I returned from Canada, my booster shot was added to that card).
It might've helped that I accidentally picked a hotel (part of the Sandman chain) that offered room service from two on-site restaurants, which made it an ideal quarantine location. None of the other hotels I stayed after my Hamilton stay offered room service, but ArriveCan didn't ask about them.
Yeah, the quarantine plan is not asked about much.
But even if you're there for a day trip, you might be randomly selected to do a self-administered COVID test. Just make sure to find a FedEx-ready facility somewhere on your route.
Quote from: Bruce on November 18, 2021, 07:33:41 PM
But even if you're there for a day trip, you might be randomly selected to do a self-administered COVID test. Just make sure to find a FedEx-ready facility somewhere on your route.
Has any of us, entering at a non-British Columbia border crossing, been asked to do a self-test? It sounds like this has been a problem mainly, or exclusively, for people crossing from western Washington state.
Even for me, crossing between Washington and British Columbia, I have yet to be asked to perform a test on the spot.
As it relates to the license plate discussion above: I never stopped seeing British Columbia license plates. Obviously, it was down from years past, but I've continued seeing them throughout the pandemic.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2021, 09:50:34 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 19, 2021, 09:40:43 PM
And while the blanket quarantine requirements are gone for fully vaccinated travelers, a border officer can require one at their discretion. Between that and the PCR test (not rapid test) requirement, we're still not quite at the level where just hopping over for a daytrip is really practical, if such ever will be again. After 9/11, though the border thinned from the thickest it was immediately after the attacks, it never got even close to pre-9/11 conditions, and I fear such could happen again. Just as Americans feared terrorists transiting through the north (whether such is rational or not - let's please keep this thread open by keeping the politics out), Canadians now fear the virus could come from the south (same note as previous).
Politics aside, the arrogant attitude a lot of Canadians have towards American tourists in general (which has worsened since COVID) has really left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm sure lots of people from the northern border states will end up flocking back in droves but I can't see myself visiting for a couple years. Lots of other countries were way more inviting than Canada pre-COVID (or at least I found myself more welcome) and I can think of a pretty lengthy list of places I rather go first.
How ironic. Having traveled in dozens of countries, there is no national more arrogant than Americans. It's terribly embarrassing. You're confusing Canadian "arrogance" with caution.
And looking at the alarming number of COVID deniers in the US, Canada's caution is warranted.
Looks like Canada will be making an announcement today on relaxing the testing requirements. It appears that the plan will be in three phases - Canadians on short-term trips, then Americans, then everyone else.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/n-y-congressman-pcr-tests-to-be-phased-out-at-canadian-border-in-three-steps-1.5672420
EDIT: The requirement drops on November 30 for fully vaccinated Canadians taking trips of 72 hours or less.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-drops-molecular-covid-19-test-requirement-for-short-trips-abroad-1.5673390
Quote from: oscar on October 17, 2021, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 15, 2021, 10:27:03 PM
People weren't too impressed with the lack of any application on the part of the US government. One host straight-up said, "the BC app is a lot better" (to which I assume he means way clearer than my complete lack of an app.)
You could've told them that only a few U.S. states have "vaccine passport" apps -- about as many states that forbid them. (No national app on either side of the border -- it's up to the provinces in Canada, and the states in the U.S.)
One of the provinces I visited earlier this month, Quebec, has rolled out a vaccine passport app (the other, Ontario, was still working on it when I was there). However, the Quebec app is available only to Quebec residents, maybe it's tied to a provincial database with vax information. Non-residents can just present paper proof of vaccination, along with proof of non-residency. I don't know if Quebec makes similar accommodations for residents without smartphones.
Tennessee is one of those states that has banned a vaccine passport issuance.
Washington has WAVerify, which is able to generate a QR code (though I'm not sure if it's compatible with any Canadian system). It's pretty buggy and often times out, so I've stuck to keeping my laminated copy of my real card with me at all times.
Any app produced by any specific jurisdiction likely only works for access within that jurisdiction and only for people who received their immunizations within that jurisdiction. And privacy concerns that prevent different jurisdictions' systems from talking to each other will likely keep it that way.
This limitation has also contributed to keeping a lid on the proliferation of apps, as it makes them generally pointless for any jurisdiction that has never widely imposed vaccination requirements to enter any otherwise public place. The state of Connecticut, for example, does not have an app for this on account of having deemed it unnecessary.
Quote from: kalvado on November 18, 2021, 04:48:05 PM
Quote from: cl94 on November 18, 2021, 04:34:21 PM
I might actually visit the Great White North next week to inject a lot of money into the Niagara Peninsula's economy. I get tested weekly through work, so I should have a PCR test dated ~48 hours before crossing.
My biggest question is how much they'll scrutinize my quarantine plan. As I'm daytripping from Buffalo, I won't have a Canadian address to put down. Will they be okay with me saying "return to Buffalo" if I'm just entering for the day in a private vehicle? Everything else will be in check, but that quarantine plan gives me anxiety.
I've put "quarantine at home" and my US address. Since I planed only a day trip (well, 29 hours was it), I assumed I would just turn around in case of any issues.
It would not let me enter a US address when I tried to select "quarantine at home". I had to enter a hotel; I hope this will not cause me any problems. If asked about this, I'll tell them that I plan to turn around if they tell me I need to quarantine.
Of course, I may also get cold feet and just decide to stay in the US. We'll find out tomorrow morning.
Alright, trip report. I took a day trip to Ontario today from Buffalo. I have NEXUS, so my experience likely differs from most of yours, but it was surprisingly close to normal. Both of my crossings were at the Peace Bridge.
Entering Canada: very little traffic entering Canada at 9:30 AM, which was unsurprising. Decent amount of cars entering the US. 2 NEXUS lanes and 1 general purpose car lane were open entering Canada. GP lane had a few cars, NEXUS lanes were both empty. My card wouldn't scan at the reader before the booth, but that didn't cause any issues. Handed NEXUS card, CDC card, ArriveCAN receipt, and PCR test results from Monday over to the officer. Got the standard series of questions [where, any weapons], he confirmed that I was just staying for the day, got my paperwork back, and was through in less than a minute. CBSA officer was not wearing a mask, which surprised me.
Entering the US: business as usual, except VMSes on the bridge entering the US said "masks required at booths" and CBP was wearing masks. 1 NEXUS lane and 2 general purpose car lanes entering the US. Trucks entering Canada were backed up onto I-190 with the reversible lane accommodating cars to Canada at about 3:15 PM.
Overall, the process was far easier than I expected. Basically make sure all of your paperwork is in order, submit a reasonable place you could quarantine in Canada even if just taking a day trip, and it'll be a breeze.
Quote from: cl94 on November 24, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
CBSA officer was not wearing a mask, which surprised me.
I'm not sure what Canada's guidance or CBSA's policy is like, but looking at Google Maps, I do not think Ontario would be rated as an area with "substantial" or "high" transmission under the CDC's system for the US. Canada's low COVID rates seem almost surreal given how much higher they are on this side of the border (3.6/100k for Ontario vs. 54.4 for Erie County).
Quote from: vdeane on November 24, 2021, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: cl94 on November 24, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
CBSA officer was not wearing a mask, which surprised me.
I'm not sure what Canada's guidance or CBSA's policy is like, but looking at Google Maps, I do not think Ontario would be rated as an area with "substantial" or "high" transmission under the CDC's system for the US. Canada's low COVID rates seem almost surreal given how much higher they are on this side of the border (3.6/100k for Ontario vs. 54.4 for Erie County).
Well, Ontario has a provincewide mask mandate, with proof of vaccination required to dine indoors or enter cultural facilities such as museums. The CBSA agent was the only person I interacted with in the country who was
not masked.
Quote from: cl94 on November 24, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
Alright, trip report. I took a day trip to Ontario today from Buffalo. I have NEXUS, so my experience likely differs from most of yours, but it was surprisingly close to normal. Both of my crossings were at the Peace Bridge.
Entering Canada: very little traffic entering Canada at 9:30 AM, which was unsurprising. Decent amount of cars entering the US. 2 NEXUS lanes and 1 general purpose car lane were open entering Canada. GP lane had a few cars, NEXUS lanes were both empty. My card wouldn't scan at the reader before the booth, but that didn't cause any issues. Handed NEXUS card, CDC card, ArriveCAN receipt, and PCR test results from Monday over to the officer. Got the standard series of questions [where, any weapons], he confirmed that I was just staying for the day, got my paperwork back, and was through in less than a minute. CBSA officer was not wearing a mask, which surprised me.
Entering the US: business as usual, except VMSes on the bridge entering the US said "masks required at booths" and CBP was wearing masks. 1 NEXUS lane and 2 general purpose car lanes entering the US. Trucks entering Canada were backed up onto I-190 with the reversible lane accommodating cars to Canada at about 3:15 PM.
Overall, the process was far easier than I expected. Basically make sure all of your paperwork is in order, submit a reasonable place you could quarantine in Canada even if just taking a day trip, and it'll be a breeze.
Thanks for the trip report :)
Apparently the Canadians are confused about the requirements. ArriveCAN is required for all trips no matter the length.
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2021/11/30/canada-us-border-arrivecan-app/
Quote from: Bruce on December 01, 2021, 11:00:45 PM
Apparently the Canadians are confused about the requirements. ArriveCAN is required for all trips no matter the length.
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2021/11/30/canada-us-border-arrivecan-app/
Quote"I'm pretty pissed off because all they needed was some signs," Leslie says.
"We were waiting a long time to get through the border line up. There was lots of time to [get the app] if we'd known we had to."
She's got a good point here.
I wouldn't have known about ArriveCAN if I hadn't looked at this forum...
Quote from: andrepoiy on December 02, 2021, 01:26:57 PM
I wouldn't have known about ArriveCAN if I hadn't looked at this forum...
I knew about it only because I planned a trip through Canada and checked on how to cross the border. Canada's online instructions were pretty clear.
Canada's back to requiring a negative PCR test for all returning Canadians, regardless of trip length:
https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2021/12/17/canada-lifts-african-travel-bans-restores-covid-19-pre-arrival-tests-for-short-trips.html (https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2021/12/17/canada-lifts-african-travel-bans-restores-covid-19-pre-arrival-tests-for-short-trips.html)
Quote from: 7/8 on December 17, 2021, 01:11:40 PM
Canada's back to requiring a negative PCR test for all returning Canadians, regardless of trip length:
https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2021/12/17/canada-lifts-african-travel-bans-restores-covid-19-pre-arrival-tests-for-short-trips.html (https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2021/12/17/canada-lifts-african-travel-bans-restores-covid-19-pre-arrival-tests-for-short-trips.html)
Once again the knees are jerking.
^ The shorter incubation period for the Omicron variant is a likely reason why. There are documented cases of people catching (and testing positive for) the Omicron variant just a day or two after testing negative.
Quote from: froggie on December 18, 2021, 11:44:00 AM
^ The shorter incubation period for the Omicron variant is a likely reason why. There are documented cases of people catching (and testing positive for) the Omicron variant just a day or two after testing negative.
Frankly speaking, since PCR is pretty much a "yes or no" test, any version would go from "yes" to "no" in a day, if a daily test taker would get infected.
My assumption is that "within 72 hours" is mostly to weed out asymptomatic cases. Those were seen as pretty common originally; by now that estimate is much lower
Don't try to make too much scientific sense of it. Public policy decisions like this are invariably driven primarily by a political need to "do something".
Any health-related border restrictions between the US and Canada are about as helpful as taking a swimming pool that someone has pissed in both ends of and putting a partition down the middle to try and stop the piss from spreading.
Anyone else having issues with ArriveCAN telling them they need to do their daily quarantine check in despite (a) being fully vaccinated and exempt, (b) having been cleared by the officer for entry and not told to quarantine, and (c) not even being in Canada anymore?
Apparently this happens sometimes. What a hunk of shit that app is. Seems like its only purpose is to make it so people don't want to cross the border as opposed to any legitimate public health considerations.
Trivia: Based on what I observed today while waiting on a work permit to be processed, if you are driving into Canada and forget to do ArriveCan, the border guards are empowered to send you in to the CBSA facility to download the app and complete registration.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 11, 2022, 05:56:03 PM
Trivia: Based on what I observed today while waiting on a work permit to be processed, if you are driving into Canada and forget to do ArriveCan, the border guards are empowered to send you in to the CBSA facility to download the app and complete registration.
So how does the process work for people without a smartphone?
Quote from: kphoger on May 11, 2022, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 11, 2022, 05:56:03 PM
Trivia: Based on what I observed today while waiting on a work permit to be processed, if you are driving into Canada and forget to do ArriveCan, the border guards are empowered to send you in to the CBSA facility to download the app and complete registration.
So how does the process work for people without a smartphone?
You can complete the process on the web too, and then print the relevant documents.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 11, 2022, 06:16:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 11, 2022, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 11, 2022, 05:56:03 PM
Trivia: Based on what I observed today while waiting on a work permit to be processed, if you are driving into Canada and forget to do ArriveCan, the border guards are empowered to send you in to the CBSA facility to download the app and complete registration.
So how does the process work for people without a smartphone?
You can complete the process on the web too, and then print the relevant documents.
I suspect that if you forget to do that and don't have a smartphone or a computer (the CBSA lobby advertised "free WiFi to access AriveCAN"), you're simply denied entry.
I did observe (because I was trying to figure what class of visitor I was in the app) that cross-border commuters apparently only have to do the app once, and the registration is good until revoked. I ended up selecting "foreign worker", which got me a single-entry code; I had to indicate when and where I was crossing the border, but I wasn't asked to file a quarantine plan. (Probably because most people selecting that option live or are coming to live in Canada.)
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 11, 2022, 08:33:36 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 11, 2022, 06:16:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 11, 2022, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 11, 2022, 05:56:03 PM
Trivia: Based on what I observed today while waiting on a work permit to be processed, if you are driving into Canada and forget to do ArriveCan, the border guards are empowered to send you in to the CBSA facility to download the app and complete registration.
So how does the process work for people without a smartphone?
You can complete the process on the web too, and then print the relevant documents.
I suspect that if you forget to do that and don't have a smartphone or a computer (the CBSA lobby advertised "free WiFi to access AriveCAN"), you're simply denied entry.
Possibly, yes. Although, as I'm sure
kphoger would agree, people without smartphones tend to be a little better at preparing ahead of time since they're acutely aware of their lack of connectivity when not near a computer. So hopefully those showing up to the border completely unprepared are 99% smartphone users and will be able to complete ArriveCan then and there. The tiny percent of non-smartphone, totally-unprepared users is likely minuscule.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 12, 2022, 09:25:19 AM
Although, as I'm sure kphoger would agree, people without smartphones tend to be a little better at preparing ahead of time since they're acutely aware of their lack of connectivity when not near a computer. So hopefully those showing up to the border completely unprepared are 99% smartphone users and will be able to complete ArriveCan then and there. The tiny percent of non-smartphone, totally-unprepared users is likely minuscule.
Go to any airport and look around at the people talking on dumbphones. (They're easy to pick out, because they probably have it on PTT mode, and they're probably pacing back and forth.) A rather large percentage of them are actually middle aged or elderly, apparently not feeling any pressing need to upgrade. So I'd say your assumption that people without a smartphone are more likely to be extra-prepared has a big hole in it.
At least in WA i5, the typical CMS sign just before NB Exit 250 would have Border Wait times for i5, 543, 539, 11. Recently I noticed that the CMS sign was changed to say something along the lines that ArriveCAN must be filled out before entering. I guess in the case with the rise of border traffic, they decided to put that on the CMS sign.
Yup, on I-190 in Buffalo the VMS also says "Use ArriveCAN to enter Canada"
Are COVID tests currently required to enter Canada? The State Department website just says vaccination has to be current.
Quote from: elsmere241 on May 16, 2022, 03:35:56 PM
Are COVID tests currently required to enter Canada? The State Department website just says vaccination has to be current.
no covid test requirement for land borders
Thanks. I'm planning a trip in a couple of months, and I know that could change in the meantime . . .
How about air travel, with a layover in Canada but final destination beyond? I have a trip planned for about three months from now.