News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

Old Traffic Signals

Started by Alex, June 21, 2009, 09:53:36 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

traffic light guy



ErmineNotyours

Textual DONT WALK sign at NE 45th Street and Interstate 5 in Seattle.  Additionally, it's a 3M louvered signal.


traffic light guy

Quote from: ErmineNotyours on December 03, 2019, 11:47:00 AM
Textual DONT WALK sign at NE 45th Street and Interstate 5 in Seattle.  Additionally, it's a 3M louvered signal.



There are a few textual pedestrian signals in my area:

Eagle Flatback worded pedestrian signals by thesignalman, on Flickr

Eagle Flatback worded pedestrian signals by thesignalman, on Flickr

Eagle Flatback Worded Pedestrian Signal by thesignalman, on Flickr


Eagle Flatback worded pedestrian signals by thesignalman, on Flickr

Eagle Flatback worded pedestrian signals by thesignalman, on Flickr


US 89

Utah is a place where old things go to die. The state has only two button copy signs left and very little in the way of old signals, and even span-wires are a rarity. I was up in Logan and knew they had some span-wires up there, so thought I'd drive through the area and check them out just for fun. So imagine my shock when I saw these:




The weird thing was that at some of the lights, the "WALK" had been replaced with a man, but the "DONT WALK" was still there:



All of the signals up there look like this. I'm not familiar with all the different brands and types of traffic signals, but these certainly look old:


traffic light guy

Quote from: US 89 on December 03, 2019, 03:54:46 PM
Utah is a place where old things go to die. The state has only two button copy signs left and very little in the way of old signals, and even span-wires are a rarity. I was up in Logan and knew they had some span-wires up there, so thought I'd drive through the area and check them out just for fun. So imagine my shock when I saw these:




The weird thing was that at some of the lights, the "WALK" had been replaced with a man, but the "DONT WALK" was still there:



All of the signals up there look like this. I'm not familiar with all the different brands and types of traffic signals, but these certainly look old:



The signals in the last photo are Square-Door Econolite Bullseyes

traffic light guy

I found some ancient 1950's Crouse-Hinds type DT signals in Collingdale:

Crouse-Hinds Art Deco signals by thesignalman, on Flickr

Crouse-Hinds Art Deco signals by thesignalman, on Flickr

Crouse-Hinds Art Deco signals by thesignalman, on Flickr

Crouse-Hinds Art Decos by thesignalman, on Flickr

Crouse-Hinds Art Deco by thesignalman, on Flickr

Crouse-Hinds Art Deco by thesignalman, on Flickr

I don't have the foggiest idea of how these old geezers slipped past PennDOT's radar. It's truly mind-blowing. These things don't even have LEDs either, a majority of them still have the original Crouse-Hinds smiley lenses. This could be due to the fact that these signals are installed at extremely narrow intersections, making the intersection geometry difficult for signal visibility if a mast-arm were to be added.   

traffic light guy

#681
I found some ancient 1950's vintage Crouse-Hinds type DT signals in Folsom:

8-inch Crouse-Hinds type R with a Crouse-Hinds Art Deco by thesignalman, on Flickr

Crouse-Hinds Art Deco by thesignalman, on Flickr

Crouse-Hinds Art Deco signals by thesignalman, on Flickr

traffic light guy


jakeroot

Here is an old detector in Tacoma, WA (Google Maps here).

Both approaches have them in the ground. I don't believe they function anymore, as there are cuts in the pavement at the intersection that would indicate a pavement detector.

The intersection rests in walk, for the record.






ErmineNotyours


jakeroot

Quote from: ErmineNotyours on January 06, 2021, 10:23:56 PM
^^^  Old detector in Renton.  Former US 10, southerly route.

I wonder how common these actually are. I'd like to think the one I found in Tacoma is exceptionally unusual as it still has the old identification plate that explained what it was. I would guess most are just rectangles like in the Renton example.

jjakucyk

There used to be two at an intersection in Cincinnati that had long since been abandoned, but they have been removed and paved over. However common they might have been, they're a liability now.  The metal frames can come loose and puncture tires, and they have to be dug out if the pavement is going to be milled down for resurfacing.  I imagine they can't be paved over without being removed either.


jakeroot

Managed to find another of these detectors. No photo this time, though. Just GSV. Not sure how I would get that picture, as it's an insanely busy road.

S 38th St, Tacoma, WA

This one is pretty odd. It's not centered on a lane. I have to assume the road was rebuilt around it at one point.

From surveying old imagery, several new lanes were added in the 1980s (before, after), but I can't quite figure out what aligned with what to make it so that detector is where it is today. Anyone with some investigative skills, let me know what you think.

plain

Quote from: jakeroot on July 11, 2021, 01:52:03 PM
Managed to find another of these detectors. No photo this time, though. Just GSV. Not sure how I would get that picture, as it's an insanely busy road.

S 38th St, Tacoma, WA

This one is pretty odd. It's not centered on a lane. I have to assume the road was rebuilt around it at one point.

From surveying old imagery, several new lanes were added in the 1980s (before, after), but I can't quite figure out what aligned with what to make it so that detector is where it is today. Anyone with some investigative skills, let me know what you think.

Also interesting at that intersection is the up red arrow. Becoming more and more uncommon these days.
Newark born, Richmond bred

Big John

Quote from: plain on July 11, 2021, 02:04:20 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 11, 2021, 01:52:03 PM
Managed to find another of these detectors. No photo this time, though. Just GSV. Not sure how I would get that picture, as it's an insanely busy road.

S 38th St, Tacoma, WA

This one is pretty odd. It's not centered on a lane. I have to assume the road was rebuilt around it at one point.

From surveying old imagery, several new lanes were added in the 1980s (before, after), but I can't quite figure out what aligned with what to make it so that detector is where it is today. Anyone with some investigative skills, let me know what you think.

Also interesting at that intersection is the up red arrow. Becoming more and more uncommon these days.
as MUTCD currently disallows it.

jakeroot

Quote from: Big John on July 11, 2021, 03:17:35 PM
Quote from: plain on July 11, 2021, 02:04:20 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 11, 2021, 01:52:03 PM
Managed to find another of these detectors. No photo this time, though. Just GSV. Not sure how I would get that picture, as it's an insanely busy road.

S 38th St, Tacoma, WA

This one is pretty odd. It's not centered on a lane. I have to assume the road was rebuilt around it at one point.

From surveying old imagery, several new lanes were added in the 1980s (before, after), but I can't quite figure out what aligned with what to make it so that detector is where it is today. Anyone with some investigative skills, let me know what you think.

Also interesting at that intersection is the up red arrow. Becoming more and more uncommon these days.
as MUTCD currently disallows it.

The lane-use arrows below the signals are also pretty unusual.

I'm curious when that red up arrow ban came in place. As far as I know, that red up arrow (northbound through lane) has been there for decades. I believe it was used to further enforce the no-double-turn situation.

jakeroot

Most of Japan has plenty of new LED traffic signals, many that are simply flush without any visor. However, there are some old signals around too.

Here is an example of an old incandescent signal in Yomitan, on Okinawa:


Incandescent Signal by Jacob Root, on Flickr


Incandescent Signal by Jacob Root, on Flickr

US 89

Ooo, a horizontal signal in a left-driving country... so red is on the "wrong" side. Hope you're not color blind!

jakeroot

Quote from: US 89 on November 13, 2022, 10:46:38 PM
Ooo, a horizontal signal in a left-driving country... so red is on the "wrong" side. Hope you're not color blind!

Luckily, since every signal is timed, you can always just look at the pedestrian signal. If it's green, chances are good your signal is too. Not true at the numerous all-way walk intersections, though.

But yeah, the signals are totally symmetrical to what you see in North America. Which makes sense, since, well, left hand traffic.

Scott5114

Which is why (pause as I get on my ludicrously rickety Oklahoma-vs-Texas soap box once again) horizontal lights are dumb, because Britain drives on the left too, and their vertical lights are the same as ours after they're mirrored! :P
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jakeroot

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 27, 2022, 02:44:03 AM
Which is why (pause as I get on my ludicrously rickety Oklahoma-vs-Texas soap box once again) horizontal lights are dumb, because Britain drives on the left too, and their vertical lights are the same as ours after they're mirrored! :P

Wouldn't mirrored vertical signals always look the same? Unless we were driving upside down (aka only applicable in Australia)?

Scott5114

Quote from: jakeroot on November 27, 2022, 04:48:58 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 27, 2022, 02:44:03 AM
Which is why (pause as I get on my ludicrously rickety Oklahoma-vs-Texas soap box once again) horizontal lights are dumb, because Britain drives on the left too, and their vertical lights are the same as ours after they're mirrored! :P

Wouldn't mirrored vertical signals always look the same? Unless we were driving upside down (aka only applicable in Australia)?

That's what I'm saying–if you mount the signals vertically, there will be no need to mirror them in left-hand drive countries, because then they're horizontally symmetrical.

(I also don't know that the left-hand-drive aspect is why the red signals are on the right there. It could also be because of Japanese reading order.)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jakeroot

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 03, 2022, 03:11:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 27, 2022, 04:48:58 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 27, 2022, 02:44:03 AM
Which is why (pause as I get on my ludicrously rickety Oklahoma-vs-Texas soap box once again) horizontal lights are dumb, because Britain drives on the left too, and their vertical lights are the same as ours after they're mirrored! :P

Wouldn't mirrored vertical signals always look the same? Unless we were driving upside down (aka only applicable in Australia)?

That's what I'm saying–if you mount the signals vertically, there will be no need to mirror them in left-hand drive countries, because then they're horizontally symmetrical.

(I also don't know that the left-hand-drive aspect is why the red signals are on the right there. It could also be because of Japanese reading order.)

Sorry, missed the emoji the first time around!

Still, being curious, I've looked around at other parts of the world that drive on the left to see if any even use horizontal traffic signals.

Overall, they are very rare. Japan probably has 99.9% of them. But I did find one in USVI, and it displays the green and red opposite what I see in Japan:


(image from https://resilientvi.org/)

I've long understood traffic lights in Japan to be opposite what you'd see in the US because, well, they drive on the left, so everything is the opposite. But visually, they're following the same rule that I think is used in the US, whereby the horizontal signal is moved vertically first, rotated counter-clockwise 90 degrees, and then moved out onto the mast arm. In Japan, the signal is moved vertically first, rotated clockwise 90 degrees, and then moved out onto the mast arm...in both cases, the red signal is kept in the "leading" or "outer" position.

Obviously this isn't actually how signals are physically placed, but I always thought the rule was to keep red either in the most vertical or most outer position, at least for signals on the driving side of the street (signals in Japan are often mounted on the far left and near right side, but the layout is always red on right, green on left).

kphoger

Quote from: jakeroot on December 08, 2022, 08:04:18 PM
I've long understood traffic lights in Japan to be opposite what you'd see in the US because, well, they drive on the left, so everything is the opposite. But visually, they're following the same rule that I think is used in the US, whereby the horizontal signal is moved vertically first, rotated counter-clockwise 90 degrees, and then moved out onto the mast arm. In Japan, the signal is moved vertically first, rotated clockwise 90 degrees, and then moved out onto the mast arm...in both cases, the red signal is kept in the "leading" or "outer" position.

Obviously this isn't actually how signals are physically placed, but I always thought the rule was to keep red either in the most vertical or most outer position, at least for signals on the driving side of the street (signals in Japan are often mounted on the far left and near right side, but the layout is always red on right, green on left).

I've always thought of it like this:  imagine that the signal were mounted vertically on a vertical pole.  Now bend the pole 90°.  (Obviously, this only works for signals on the "normal" side of the road.)
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

US 89

Quote from: jakeroot on December 08, 2022, 08:04:18 PM
Still, being curious, I've looked around at other parts of the world that drive on the left to see if any even use horizontal traffic signals.

Overall, they are very rare. Japan probably has 99.9% of them. But I did find one in USVI, and it displays the green and red opposite what I see in Japan:


(image from https://resilientvi.org/)

The USVI is also full of American cars with the steering wheel on the left, and presumably a handful of American drivers who have seen horizontal signals in the states? Or could be that they just used an American contractor who used the same specs they last used on a project in Texas or something.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.