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Author Topic: Clinching Roads with Ferries  (Read 5727 times)

vdeane

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2019, 09:17:44 PM »

If it's enough of a priority, you'll find a way to accept it.
And not the only ferry I'll have to deal with for my clinching goals (which include the entire TCH mainline and QC 199, although I may want to pick up US 9 at some point).  At least I'm not aware of the others having a financial penalty for making a reservation.  The long-haul ferries certainly require more logistics to work into a trip than the shorter ferries like the ones between NY and VT!

Honestly, when I get around to doing long roadtrips is certainly going to be interesting given my tendency to not drive more than 8-9 hours per day and wanting to arrive at a hotel in time to watch the local news (a quirk of mine; I'm actually considering whether to establish a way to properly keep track of which media markets I've "clinched").
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Bruce

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2019, 10:45:28 PM »

In Washington, every WSF route is legally a state highway and thus I wouldn't count a clinch unless it included a ride.

WA 339 is the hardest, since it's a peak-only water taxi now.
Isn't there a WA state highway that's routed on a discontinued ferry line, making it impossible to clinch, or something along the lines of that? I could be wrong.

WA 339 was originally a state-run passenger-only ferry route that was turned over to the county in 2006. So it's a state route on a county ferry.

Flint1979

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2019, 10:42:12 AM »

For US-10 I would say yes because the ferry is actually a part of the route. I'm not sure with other ones.
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Flint1979

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2019, 10:44:13 AM »

I don't clinch any roads below Interstate highways, but if I did, I'd probably not consider them clinched until I rode the ferry.

Then again, although I have seen maps with US 9 shields in the water, I haven't seen the same for US 10.

Glad I am sticking to Interstates. :D
I haven't seen any US-10 shields in the water either. However the ferry does have a US-10 shield on it.
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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2019, 10:44:02 PM »

AASHTO says you are on US 10 when you sail it?  I do not think US 9 is on the Cape May Ferry the same way so US 9 in DE is severed from US 9 in NJ and NY then.
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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2019, 10:49:04 PM »

In Washington, every WSF route is legally a state highway and thus I wouldn't count a clinch unless it included a ride.

WA 339 is the hardest, since it's a peak-only water taxi now.
Isn't there a WA state highway that's routed on a discontinued ferry line, making it impossible to clinch, or something along the lines of that? I could be wrong.

Louisiana has an abandoned state highway that has not been taken off the logs, yet. From Cameron to Monkey Island, the ferry got knocked out of service from Hurricane Rita in 2005, and although the few residents there were displaced, LA 1141 is still on the books and inaccessible.


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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2019, 11:06:23 PM »

In Washington, every WSF route is legally a state highway and thus I wouldn't count a clinch unless it included a ride.

WA 339 is the hardest, since it's a peak-only water taxi now.
Isn't there a WA state highway that's routed on a discontinued ferry line, making it impossible to clinch, or something along the lines of that? I could be wrong.

Louisiana has an abandoned state highway that has not been taken off the logs, yet. From Cameron to Monkey Island, the ferry got knocked out of service from Hurricane Rita in 2005, and although the few residents there were displaced, LA 1141 is still on the books and inaccessible.


iPhone

Looks like there are a ton of abandoned buildings that are still standing on the island, that looks interesting as all hell.  I suppose you could walk the majority of the route if you had a boat to access the south part of the island.
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english si

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2019, 08:16:19 AM »

since TM doesn't map the ferries as part of the associated routes, you can clinch the road segments at each end and TM won't say whether or not you took the ferries.
With E Roads, I've always put a point at where you can last turn off to not enter the port, and another for the ferry, and so routes are rather hard to clinch unless you take the ferry (OK, I have that bit - and only that bit - of IRL E20, despite taking a different ferry due to them leaving from the same place).

We don't however, have ferry->outside the port portions of E Roads that end with a ferry (E25 Palermo, E47 Helsingborg, E55 Helsingborg, E67 Helsinki, E265 Kapellskar, E840 Civitavecchia) or call somewhere in the middle of a crossing (E18 Mariehamn) - so if E40 was changed to begin "Dover ... Calais - Bruges" it would make no difference to the current "Calais - Bruges" as its signed into the Channel Tunnel terminal in France and we wouldn't add the English section unless it was explicitly signed (even the Swedes and Finns don't do that).

It's a bit harder with more minor routes/ferries (but it is possible, I guess - you might end up with very short section), but with E Roads it works as the ferries are big enough and so there's a terminal and such rather than a short ramp and pay on ferry. US10 could have similar (looking, TM could do with a little polish there anyway, especially MI) as its ferry is definitely big enough.
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oscar

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2019, 08:57:12 AM »

It's a bit harder with more minor routes/ferries (but it is possible, I guess - you might end up with very short section), but with E Roads it works as the ferries are big enough and so there's a terminal and such rather than a short ramp and pay on ferry. US10 could have similar (looking, TM could do with a little polish there anyway, especially MI) as its ferry is definitely big enough.

TM handles the WI and MI ends differently. The WI US 10 segment ends in TM more or less at the loading ramp onto the ferry (a little point drift there, the endpoint is in the water), which has the last US 10 route marker at the gate just before getting on the ferry. The MI US 10 segment ends in TM well short of the terminal, though then again there's an END US 10 sign around that point. Maybe the MI segment can be clinched, even for the most fussy, without getting on the ferry.
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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2019, 10:56:41 PM »

In Washington, every WSF route is legally a state highway and thus I wouldn't count a clinch unless it included a ride.

WA 339 is the hardest, since it's a peak-only water taxi now.
Isn't there a WA state highway that's routed on a discontinued ferry line, making it impossible to clinch, or something along the lines of that? I could be wrong.

Louisiana has an abandoned state highway that has not been taken off the logs, yet. From Cameron to Monkey Island, the ferry got knocked out of service from Hurricane Rita in 2005, and although the few residents there were displaced, LA 1141 is still on the books and inaccessible.


iPhone

Looks like there are a ton of abandoned buildings that are still standing on the island, that looks interesting as all hell.  I suppose you could walk the majority of the route if you had a boat to access the south part of the island.
I second this, that sounds pretty interesting. If I recall there's a thread for this type of stuff, in regards to routes being inaccessible but still on the books. Louisiana's highway system as a whole is pretty interesting, numbering and all, but I don't wanna go off topic here.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 11:28:40 PM by index »
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paulthemapguy

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2019, 09:24:19 PM »

Do I really have to ferry my car from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland to clinch the TCH?  It costs like a bajillion dollars....
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Rothman

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2019, 09:44:37 PM »

Do I really have to ferry my car from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland to clinch the TCH?  It costs like a bajillion dollars....
Not a bajillion.  I am about to take that ferry with a car and four passengers (Port Aux Basques) and it was about $300 Canadian.
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ghYHZ

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2019, 07:20:33 AM »

You really don’t need a reservation except travelling on summer weekends (Fri and Sat to PEI and Sun return) or on a Holiday.....and even then you’d probably only have to wait 90 mins or so for the next crossing if you didn’t have a reservation. The cost of a reservation is the same as travelling without one….$79 round-trip. And that’s for a car including as many people as you can cram into it! Only if you wanted a one-way reservation and just in the direction of NS over to PEI would you pay the $79. Travel without a reservation going to PEI is free.
Yeah, I'm not the type of person to consider "wait 90 minutes for the next ferry" to be an acceptable roadtrip delay, though if avoiding Friday/Saturday/holidays and/or going outside of the peak season is enough to avoid needing one, that's another matter.  The requirement to be there an hour before departure (vs. half an hour with a reservation) is still annoying, though.

I went to Prince Edward Island  on Saturday…arriving about a half hour before departure and 15 minutes before loading began. I had no problem getting on without a reservation.













Same thing coming back on Saturday evening……no reservation and lots of space.







I was on the ‘Holiday Island’ (both ways) …a highly functional double-decker holding 150 cars but with all the esthetics of a parking lot that floated out to sea. It’s a former CN Ferry and was transferred to NFL (Northumberland Ferries) after the Bridge opened between New Brunswick and PEI.





The other boat on the run is the ‘Confederation’ with much more appealing lines. It holds 220 cars



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ghYHZ

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2019, 07:24:34 AM »

Do I really have to ferry my car from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland to clinch the TCH?  It costs like a bajillion dollars....
Not a bajillion.  I am about to take that ferry with a car and four passengers (Port Aux Basques) and it was about $300 Canadian.

The cost of the ferry is not excessive when you consider the crossing to Port-aux-Basques (Port oh Bask) is 6 hours and 150 km …..or a 15 hour 500km overnight run to Argentia. The ferries are big…..carrying 500 cars with cabins or ‘business class’ type seating, dining rooms and lounges.










« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 07:37:22 AM by ghYHZ »
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1995hoo

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2019, 08:23:50 AM »

Do I really have to ferry my car from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland to clinch the TCH?  It costs like a bajillion dollars....

You could always take a bike instead. Last time I was in that area, we encountered two guys near Antigonish who were riding across Canada on recumbent trikes and needed to reach the ferry by the following evening.
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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2019, 08:40:11 AM »

^^^ How long is the ferry crossing across Northumberland Strait?
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ghYHZ

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2019, 08:44:43 AM »

^^^ How long is the ferry crossing across Northumberland Strait?


One hour and 10 minutes
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vdeane

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2019, 12:54:37 PM »

I went to Prince Edward Island  on Saturday…arriving about a half hour before departure and 15 minutes before loading began. I had no problem getting on without a reservation.
Interesting... I take it I should take the website with a grain of salt when they say things like "show up an hour before departure" and "reservations are recommended"?
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ghYHZ

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2019, 01:24:00 PM »

I went to Prince Edward Island  on Saturday…arriving about a half hour before departure and 15 minutes before loading began. I had no problem getting on without a reservation.
Interesting... I take it I should take the website with a grain of salt when they say things like "show up an hour before departure" and "reservations are recommended"?

All depends on when you want to travel. I travel enough to know what crossings to avoid.

Arriving one hour before without a reservation is a recommendation...….and that you'll probably be far enough ahead in the lineup that there's a pretty good chance you'll get on the next crossing.

Today (Aug 5)  is a holiday here. It was a sunny and warm weekend so I'm sure there's a lineup on the PEI side right now and if you don't have a reservation you might miss a crossing and have to wait for the next.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 01:27:33 PM by ghYHZ »
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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2020, 04:01:31 PM »

I went to Prince Edward Island  on Saturday…arriving about a half hour before departure and 15 minutes before loading began. I had no problem getting on without a reservation.
Interesting... I take it I should take the website with a grain of salt when they say things like "show up an hour before departure" and "reservations are recommended"?
All depends on when you want to travel. I travel enough to know what crossings to avoid

Drove to the end of TCH106 at Caribou NS this afternoon...and no need to worry about a reservation to get over to Prince Edward Island for some sun, sand and surf  as the marshalling area is a skating rink! Ferries go back on May 1.

I have to go to the Island next week.....but it will be the long way 'round via the Confederation Bridge.

 


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Duke87

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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2020, 08:58:57 AM »

I'm of the general mindset that ferries are not roads, and therefore fall outside the scope of clinching roads, even if they are administratively defined as part of a route.

Of course, when part of a route is on an island that is only accessible by ferry, this becomes rather moot.
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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2020, 02:29:46 PM »

I'm of the general mindset that ferries are not roads, and therefore fall outside the scope of clinching roads, even if they are administratively defined as part of a route.



Given a route is simply a path something follows, and they can be designated over anything, (especially in the case of legislatively defined routes) by this definition, does this mean routes such as WA SR 339 (a pedestrian-only water taxi, existing only on water) are impossible to clinch? You'd still be traveling the entire length of a route, even if not on a road.




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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2020, 03:13:40 PM »


I'm of the general mindset that ferries are not roads, and therefore fall outside the scope of clinching roads, even if they are administratively defined as part of a route.

Given a route is simply a path something follows, and they can be designated over anything, (especially in the case of legislatively defined routes) by this definition, does this mean routes such as WA SR 339 (a pedestrian-only water taxi, existing only on water) are impossible to clinch? You'd still be traveling the entire length of a route, even if not on a road.

Look carefully, and you'll see that Duke87 didn't say anything about "clinching routes", nor does the thread title.  That is to say, he didn't say you can't clinch WA SR 339—merely that such has nothing to do with clinching roads.
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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2020, 07:31:15 AM »

He may have said that because a number of roadgeeks think clinching roads = clinching routes.  As the past few posts have shown, the two are not always intertwined...
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Re: Clinching Roads with Ferries
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2020, 08:35:33 AM »

He may have said that because a number of roadgeeks think clinching roads = clinching routes.  As the past few posts have shown, the two are not always intertwined...


That's about what I meant. To add to that in a tangentially related way, some of the names states use (such as State Road) for their routes being designated over ferries only further complicates that with the whole road versus route dichotomy. See: Florida State Road A1A being designated on the Mayport Ferry.
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