Port to Plains Corridor (I-27 extension) officially signed into law!

[abqtraveler]

IIRC there is only one partially good quality of stretch on US-64/87 between Clayton and Raton, the zone leading up to Mount Dora. Parts of that are concrete and are graded better. Still, for any full-blown Interstate upgrade almost all of that road would have to be re-built.

That's one of the few small segments of highway that's paved in concrete in New Mexico. Originally, most of New Mexico's interstate highways were paved with concrete. Due to the soil conditions out here, they found out that concrete pavement degrades rather quickly due to an alkali-silica reaction, and so NMDOT had to completely reconstruct almost all of its interstate highways during the '90s and 2000s. They removed the original concrete pavement, regraded the roadbed and repaved the interstates mostly with asphalt. The few sections of I-40 through Albuquerque and Gallup that were rebuilt with concrete pavement use low-alkali cement that was imported from Mexico. These sections have held up pretty well, but paving with low-alkali cement is rather expensive compared to asphalt, since the cement has to be imported. So in most other areas, NMDOT went the cheap route and used asphalt.

Yep, "mill and fill" is a cottage industry here.  You might?? get 10 years out of an asphalt surface, before the sun and heat, causes raveling and erosion of the surface.   10 years if your'e lucky.
Remember the hype over "superpave" in the late nineties.  SP-3 and SP-4.  Frankly doesn't seem to hold up.    I would have spent the money to pave all the urban / semi-urban stretches in concrete, while sticking with asphalt in the rural areas, the majority of the lane miles.   

To your point, there's a stretch of Eubank Boulevard here in Albuquerque that was last resurfaced about 5 or 6 years ago. Today that stretch is completely rutted with potholes. The City of Albuquerque is milling and resurfacing that stretch of Eubank this week, and from the looks of it, they're milling off the top layer of asphalt and only putting down about 2 inches of new asphalt. Since they're doing things on the cheap, they'll be back out there in 5 years resurfacing again.

[Henry]

Regarding Raton, this would work better as a diagonal 2di to Dallas/Fort Worth and/or Texarkana. Something like 28 to 38 would work, and never mind that the westernmost part would be north of I-40. The government of NM needs to get its head out of its ass and listen to suggestions like these.

[abqtraveler]

Regarding Raton, this would work better as a diagonal 2di to Dallas/Fort Worth and/or Texarkana. Something like 28 to 38 would work, and never mind that the westernmost part would be north of I-40. The government of NM needs to get its head out of its ass and listen to suggestions like these.

They won't though, because New Mexico officials pretty much won't invest in anything that doesn't serve Albuquerque or Santa Fe.

[DJStephens]

There are items in the state, either never built, or in dire need of replacing, that could be argued would have greater importance, and more benefits, than the "port to plains" branch
1. 3/4 Albuquerque circumferential
2. Straightening, widening and depressing I-25 S of the "Big I" project area
3. Anthony Gap - the N section of an El Paso bypass
4. Oil Field investments - four lane US 285 S to Texas state line, bypass of Loving / Malaga. Carlsbad and Hobbs US 62 / 180 bypasses 
5. US 70 bypasses - W to E - Las Cruces, Alamogordo, Ruidoso Downs, Roswell, Portales, Clovis
6. Nogal Canyon twin bridge replacement on I-25 of archaic narrow fifties structure present there now
7. Full depth reconstruction of remaining Original pre-1960/65 sections of both 25 and 40
8. Full reconstruction of several sections of pre-1960 sections of I-10 with complete interchange replacements.     

[sprjus4]

I've not personally driven the stretch of US-64 / US-87 east of I-25, but what are the major issues with it? Doing a quick glance at various sections on Google Street view, it seems like a typical rural 4 lane divided highway with a 40 foot median, relatively level, and some form of shoulders at any given time. It's not perfectly interstate-grade but it certainly appears sufficient.

[kphoger]

I've not personally driven the stretch of US-64 / US-87 east of I-25, but what are the major issues with it? Doing a quick glance at various sections on Google Street view, it seems like a typical rural 4 lane divided highway with a 40 foot median, relatively level, and some form of shoulders at any given time. It's not perfectly interstate-grade but it certainly appears sufficient.

I've been scratching my head too.  I drove it from Capulin to Clayton two years ago, and I don't remember there being any problem with it, other than wishing a lot of it had a higher speed limit.

[abqtraveler]

I've not personally driven the stretch of US-64 / US-87 east of I-25, but what are the major issues with it? Doing a quick glance at various sections on Google Street view, it seems like a typical rural 4 lane divided highway with a 40 foot median, relatively level, and some form of shoulders at any given time. It's not perfectly interstate-grade but it certainly appears sufficient.

IF...and that's a big IF...New Mexico ever gets around to upgrading 64/87 to an interstate, NMDOT would probably have to build bypasses around Clayton, Greenville, and Capulin, and probably build a connector to a new interchange with I-25 south of Raton. I don't think it would take much to upgrade the rest of 64/87 to interstate standards on the spot.

[kphoger]

IF...and that's a big IF...New Mexico ever gets around to upgrading 64/87 to an interstate, NMDOT would probably have to build bypasses around Clayton, Greenville, and Capulin, and probably build a connector to a new interchange with I-25 south of Raton. I don't think it would take much to upgrade the rest of 64/87 to interstate standards on the spot.

Let's not forget the 15mph school zone speed limit in Des Moines.  https://goo.gl/maps/bT8MxBndf9Aa5PiCA

Note that the school zone is not on the stretch of highway closest to the high school.  Rather, it is on the stretch of highway adjacent to Freedom School, which closed twenty years ago.

[abqtraveler]

IF...and that's a big IF...New Mexico ever gets around to upgrading 64/87 to an interstate, NMDOT would probably have to build bypasses around Clayton, Greenville, and Capulin, and probably build a connector to a new interchange with I-25 south of Raton. I don't think it would take much to upgrade the rest of 64/87 to interstate standards on the spot.

Let's not forget the 15mph school zone speed limit in Des Moines.  https://goo.gl/maps/bT8MxBndf9Aa5PiCA

Note that the school zone is not on the stretch of highway closest to the high school.  Rather, it is on the stretch of highway adjacent to Freedom School, which closed twenty years ago.

Ahh...I forgot the bypass around Des Moines they'll need to build as well. Thanks!

[Bobby5280]

I've not personally driven the stretch of US-64 / US-87 east of I-25, but what are the major issues with it?

There isn't much wrong with US-64/87 in NE NM if it only has to function as a standard divided 4-lane highway with some grand-fathered features. As a target for potential Interstate upgrades the highway is seriously deficient. Overall it looks a bit cheap compared to other 4-lane divided highways I use on road trips between Lawton and Colorado Springs, not to mention other 4-lane divided highways in this region.

Very little mileage of the US-64/87 main lanes was built with Interstate-quality grading. It's very difficult to see all the little bends and dips in the road via Google Street View. When driving on it for real it's clear the road doesn't have Interstate geometry. In some ways I'm kind of surprised 65mph or 70mph speed limits are allowed. Much of it was 55mph or even 50mph when it was just a 2-lane highway. As I said earlier, NM DOT simply laid down a second asphalt roadway next to the existing 2-lane highway for much of the project.

The shoulders on US-64/87 aren't up to Interstate standards either, much less current 4-lane divided highway standards. Here in Oklahoma I've seen quite a few improvement projects done to existing 4-lane highways to widen shoulders, do grading work to improve drainage, add cable barriers, update guardrails and other features. Some of the work has included replacing main lane roadways. Since the 4-laning of US-64/87 has been finished most of the improvement work I've seen is just asphalt overlay.

[Scott5114]

I've not personally driven the stretch of US-64 / US-87 east of I-25, but what are the major issues with it? Doing a quick glance at various sections on Google Street view, it seems like a typical rural 4 lane divided highway with a 40 foot median, relatively level, and some form of shoulders at any given time. It's not perfectly interstate-grade but it certainly appears sufficient.

I've been scratching my head too.  I drove it from Capulin to Clayton two years ago, and I don't remember there being any problem with it, other than wishing a lot of it had a higher speed limit.

I think it's not so much that there's a problem with the routing itself, but more that using it to get to Colorado will inevitably bring one to Raton Pass, which sucks, and that the politics of New Mexico is such that it's somehow even less likely that limited-access upgrades will happen than it would be if it crossed the Oklahoma panhandle. (Surprisingly, Oklahoma seems to be willing to upgrade US-287 in Cimarron County, if the ODOT 8-year plan is to be believed.)

[ethanhopkin14]

I think its a horrible idea to shove more traffic through Raton Pass.  Stay east of the range and give Ports-to-Plains traffic another way to Denver without having to go through that horrible stretch of road.

[Bobby5280]

The other important issue aside from the steep grades of Raton Pass is weather. Funneling everything through Raton Pass is putting all your eggs in one basket and not being able to use that basket at all when the pass is slammed with a blizzard. Some redundancy is needed in the highway system out in that region. The Front Range Cities in Colorado need more than I-25 and I-70 as good quality exit points to the Southeast.

Making US-287 4-lane divided 100% of the way up through the Texas Panhandle and up to Limon would be a big improvement for safety and efficiency. Turning the highway into an extension of I-27 would be even better. If Raton Pass is getting hit with a snow storm there is at least a good chance the US-287 corridor won't be affected. Likewise, if a blizzard has rolled out into the plains there is a chance clearing could be underway at Raton.

[bwana39]

I think its a horrible idea to shove more traffic through Raton Pass.  Stay east of the range and give Ports-to-Plains traffic another way to Denver without having to go through that horrible stretch of road.

I went across Raton Pass in a driving snow storm in February of 2021. There was seemingly as much traffic there as on I-40 west of Amarillo. This would seemingly add traffic to an already very busy freeway in an area where significant snow and ice are not at all unusual.

[-- US 175 --]

US 64-US 87 (Clayton and NW) always seemed to be prone to closure in the winter time (blowing snow, drifting snow, whiteouts), even when other routes in and around the TX panhandle weren't as affected.

[kphoger]

Have you guys already forgotten this:

It looks like 1.3 billion for an interstate conversion from NM/TX state line to Raton. I'd have thought it would be closer to 2 billion. NM ideally should be able to handle that at least in phases.

The study looked at two possible options for this project with estimated costs ranging between $219 million to rehabilitate the current corridor and $1.3 billion to convert the existing highway  in the corridor to an interstate.

https://www.cpr.org/2022/05/05/a-new-interstate-highway-between-texas-and-northern-new-mexico-could-connect-to-i-25-in-raton/

More from the article continues with traffic prospects:

"Generally for Raton,"  Berry said of improving the connection to I-25, "our economic development plan is built around a lot of traffic on that highway."

According to the study, improving the route to Interstate Highway standards, "traffic is projected to increase between 1% and 2%."

"Improvement or expansion of the corridor would not create traffic congestion along the corridor,"  it goes on to say.

A traffic increase of 1% to 2% hardly appears to be something that will "shove more traffic through" or "add traffic to an already very busy freeway".

[bwana39]

Have you guys already forgotten this:

More from the article continues with traffic prospects:

“Generally for Raton,” Berry said of improving the connection to I-25, “our economic development plan is built around a lot of traffic on that highway.”

According to the study, improving the route to Interstate Highway standards, "traffic is projected to increase between 1% and 2%."

“Improvement or expansion of the corridor would not create traffic congestion along the corridor,” it goes on to say.

A traffic increase of 1% to 2% hardly appears to be something that will "shove more traffic through" or "add traffic to an already very busy freeway".

If it will only increase traffic by 1% to 2% why are we discussing doing it?  Capacity doesn't seem to be a real problem. It will become a little safer and a little more convenient, but will it really make a big enough difference to justify the expense?

I do think that bypasses of the towns along the route is prudent, but a full-fledged freeway for the entirety, not so much...

[Scott5114]

Safety and efficiency are two benefits of a freeway that have little to do with capacity.

[bwana39]

Safety and efficiency are two benefits of a freeway that have little to do with capacity.

I agree to a point. The question is the marginal improvement over the current facility actually worth the cost of the upgrade.  I don't know the safety records on this stretch of road, but, my guess is the marginal improvement would be fairly low. 

[Bobby5280]

US-64/87 in NE NM is considerably safer now as a 4 lane divided road than it was as a 2 lane route. Still the rolling nature of terrain between Clayton and Mount Dora creates some visibility hazards with vehicles using ranch access roads connecting directly to the main lanes. If the main lanes had been graded more to Interstate standards the sight lines would be better. Thankfully not many vehicles use those access roads.

I think US-287 is a bigger problem. It drops down to 2 lanes North of Stafford, TX. From there US-287 stays in 2-lane form up to Limon, CO with only a few brief exceptions. There's a Northbound passing lane near the OK/CO border. US-287 expands into 5-lane surface streets going thru Springfield and Lamar. There's a brief 4-lane divided stretch with the overlap of US-50. The rest of it is just 2 lane highway. I don't know the overall traffic counts of that highway, but you can easily see in Google Earth that a lot of semi trucks use it. That highway would be a lot safer as a 4-lane divided highway, if not a limited access Interstate.

[monty]

NM media story: https://www.myhighplains.com/news/regional-news/plans-in-place-for-a-new-interstate-between-texas-and-new-mexico/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR2N0v5iGM5B8qT_SBilf-anFws0fwUW2F0PvB3xwy1epNLOXqugyc-ychI

[ski-man]

When I travel from WYO to Texas I do not go US 287 anymore. I have had two close calls with semis drifting into the oncoming traffic. One time I saw a light coming for me. There are a lot of trucks that use that road from Limon to Amarillo. Even though that way shows it as the quicker route on the maps, I now always go over Raton Pass, or if I want different scenery I cut down to US 81 to I-135 to I-35 and pay a small toll. Just seems safer to me.

[DJStephens]

NM media story: https://www.myhighplains.com/news/regional-news/plans-in-place-for-a-new-interstate-between-texas-and-new-mexico/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR2N0v5iGM5B8qT_SBilf-anFws0fwUW2F0PvB3xwy1epNLOXqugyc-ychI

Wishful thinking.  The "progressive" type politicos in Santa fe will never approve funding for such a scheme.   Rainbows and Unicorns instead.   

[Bobby5280]

When I travel from WYO to Texas I do not go US 287 anymore. I have had two close calls with semis drifting into the oncoming traffic. One time I saw a light coming for me.

When driving on any rural 2-lane highway it is critical for a motorist to keep eyes on the road and on-coming traffic. Distracted driving habits, like texting while driving, can end up being lethal. It's very easy for a motorist to allow a vehicle to drift out of the lane while doing risky things such as texting on a phone.

Out in the Texas/Oklahoma panhandles and going into Southeast Colorado US-287 has risk multipliers. US-287 goes through some hills and curves as it crosses the caprock transition. That creates blind spots. The remote location translates to a significant number of people driving long distance trips. Drowsy driving is a factor. Motorists can get "road hypnotized" when driving on very straight, monotonous stretches of road. SE Colorado has some of those kinds of boring, desolate stretches of highway. Zoning out at the wrong time could mean having a head-on with a semi truck.

TX DOT, ODOT and CDOT at least need to get a second roadway added to that stretch of US-287, even if it's a modest upgrade like the US-64/87 project in NE NM.

Meanwhile, even though it might seem like overkill, an Interstate upgrade of US-64/87 in NE NM could be completed in a series of less financially painful phases. If it was my call I'd start with building the town bypasses and then fill in the gaps between towns later. That could start with Raton, Capulin and Des Moines. Those look pretty easy to do and wouldn't veer far away from the existing US-64/87 highway. It looks like it would be relatively simple to build a Y interchange on I-25 and create an outlet to US-64/87. There's very little development in Raton to the East of I-25. Bypasses for Capulin and Des Moines would be very modest. The tiny towns of Grenville and Mt Dora are so small US-64/87 could be upgraded over the existing alignment pretty easily. Those two towns just need a freeway exit and that's it.

Bypasses around Clayton, Texline and Dalhart could start out as Super-2 bypasses just to get the ROW reserved. A lot of existing traffic would still stick to the existing highway going through town. Then the second set of lanes could be added to those bypasses later as more progress happens with the rest of the corridor. Even the grade separations and exit ramps can be added in phases.

[rte66man]

Bypasses around Clayton, Texline and Dalhart could start out as Super-2 bypasses just to get the ROW reserved. A lot of existing traffic would still stick to the existing highway going through town. Then the second set of lanes could be added to those bypasses later as more progress happens with the rest of the corridor. Even the grade separations and exit ramps can be added in phases.

Like Oklahoma did with Boise City?