News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

How Many "State" 2dis Have You Been On? Clinched?

Started by JayhawkCO, April 18, 2022, 02:50:48 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

SkyPesos

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 01:35:06 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 19, 2022, 07:26:53 PM
Kind of curious, how does the general community count how I-35 gets clinched? For the route in both TX and MN, is it excluding both branches (with a gap in route), one branch of your choice, the branch with exit number continuation, or both branches? Personally, I prefer mainline with the branch with the exit number continuation (35E in both cases, it seems like), but I'm not sure if that's wrong or not.

My personal view is that either branch is acceptable, since the numbering itself doesn't imply either branch is the primary one, and it still works on surface-level branched routes that don't have obvious continuity through exit or milepost numbering. That's how I can claim my clinch of OK-3 (since I have all of 3W but I'm missing a few chunks of 3E).
That makes sense to me to count either branch, so changing my stance to that. Also, I have no idea which branch the I-69 exit numbers are a continuation of. When I was there last month, iirc the exit numbers between Uptown and Downtown are in the 120s, which definitely don't match up to 69E (exit numbers would be in the 340s or 350s if so), not 69C either (pretty close in length to 69E), and probably not 69W either despite being the shortest of the 3 branches, so I'm guessing those exit numbers are temporary until the entire thing's finished?


CoreySamson

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 20, 2022, 11:26:40 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 01:35:06 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 19, 2022, 07:26:53 PM
Kind of curious, how does the general community count how I-35 gets clinched? For the route in both TX and MN, is it excluding both branches (with a gap in route), one branch of your choice, the branch with exit number continuation, or both branches? Personally, I prefer mainline with the branch with the exit number continuation (35E in both cases, it seems like), but I'm not sure if that's wrong or not.

My personal view is that either branch is acceptable, since the numbering itself doesn't imply either branch is the primary one, and it still works on surface-level branched routes that don't have obvious continuity through exit or milepost numbering. That's how I can claim my clinch of OK-3 (since I have all of 3W but I'm missing a few chunks of 3E).
That makes sense to me to count either branch, so changing my stance to that. Also, I have no idea which branch the I-69 exit numbers are a continuation of. When I was there last month, iirc the exit numbers between Uptown and Downtown are in the 120s, which definitely don't match up to 69E (exit numbers would be in the 340s or 350s if so), not 69C either (pretty close in length to 69E), and probably not 69W either despite being the shortest of the 3 branches, so I'm guessing those exit numbers are temporary until the entire thing's finished?
No, they are not temporary. The starting point for the I-69 exit numbers corresponds with where the I-69 mainline will begin in Victoria (Victoria is ~120 miles from Houston). This, at least for me, makes the E/C/W triplets separate, distinct routes as opposed to a section of the main route.
Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

My Route Log
My Clinches

Now on mobrule and Travel Mapping!

kphoger

Quote from: 1995hoo on April 20, 2022, 11:24:24 AM

Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 11:01:08 AM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 20, 2022, 10:50:07 AM
Let's put it this way. I'm also not claiming a clinch of I-69 unless I get W, C, and (both) E.

I'm intrigued to know if the others in your camp will take this same stance on 69.

You're saying it would be nice to know?

Yes.  The discussion about how to handle the E/W branches of I-35 intrigues me.  And I had already the "all branches" crowd would handle the E/W/C branches of I-69.  So, when |JayhawkCO| specified his position on the matter, I'm intrigued to know if the others will hold the same position.  It's quite the intriguing question.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

thspfc

#53
My list is not impressive right now, but I'll go for it anyways

4: FL
20: TX
25: CO
30: TX
35: IA, MN
39: IL, WI (clinched)
41: WI
43: WI
45: TX
70: CO
75: FL
76: NE (clinched), CO (clinched)
80: IA, NE (clinched), WY
90: MT, MN, WI (clinched), IL
94: MN, WI, IL
95: FL

JayhawkCO

Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 20, 2022, 11:24:24 AM

Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 11:01:08 AM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 20, 2022, 10:50:07 AM
Let's put it this way. I'm also not claiming a clinch of I-69 unless I get W, C, and (both) E.

I'm intrigued to know if the others in your camp will take this same stance on 69.

You're saying it would be nice to know?

Yes.  The discussion about how to handle the E/W branches of I-35 intrigues me.  And I had already the "all branches" crowd would handle the E/W/C branches of I-69.  So, when |JayhawkCO| specified his position on the matter, I'm intrigued to know if the others will hold the same position.  It's quite the intriguing question.

It's basically like quantum mechanics. For a clinch, you travel all available paths.

CoreySamson

Just FYI:

As for clinching purposes and marking travels, I regard suffixed routes as entirely separate from the route they were conceived from. Hence, in the case of I-35, I regard it as 5 separate routes: I-35 (in 3 discontiguous sections), I-35W (Fort Worth), I-35E (Dallas), I-35W (Minneapolis), and I-35E (St. Paul). I-69 would be 4 routes: I-69 (even though it is fragmented), I-69E, I-69C, and I-69W. This goes for US routes, too. Hence, if I went on the 3 discontinuous sections of I-35 and none of the suffixed routes, then I would consider it clinched (because I have been on all of the road marked or internally listed as I-35).
Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

My Route Log
My Clinches

Now on mobrule and Travel Mapping!

US 89

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 19, 2022, 07:26:53 PM
Kind of curious, how does the general community count how I-35 gets clinched? For the route in both TX and MN, is it excluding both branches (with a gap in route), one branch of your choice, the branch with exit number continuation, or both branches? Personally, I prefer mainline with the branch with the exit number continuation (35E in both cases, it seems like), but I'm not sure if that's wrong or not.

My thought on this is "it depends".

For routes that split and rejoin, such as the two I-35 splits, if there's an obvious continuity along one of them, go with that. In both the Texas and Minnesota splits, exit number and mileage continuity is maintained along I-35E, so for clinching purposes I would consider those branches part of I-35 and necessary to clinch as a result. Both I-35Ws are mileposted and exit-numbered like 3dis and as such should be treated as independent routes.

For routes that split at the end, it is my opinion that the forks aren't necessary unless you want to clinch them separately on their own. Supporting this analysis is the existing exit numbers on I-69, which imply a zero point in Victoria (site of the future split 69W-69E split).

kphoger

Quote from: US 89 on April 20, 2022, 11:55:49 AM

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 19, 2022, 07:26:53 PM
Kind of curious, how does the general community count how I-35 gets clinched? For the route in both TX and MN, is it excluding both branches (with a gap in route), one branch of your choice, the branch with exit number continuation, or both branches? Personally, I prefer mainline with the branch with the exit number continuation (35E in both cases, it seems like), but I'm not sure if that's wrong or not.

My thought on this is "it depends".

For routes that split and rejoin, such as the two I-35 splits, if there's an obvious continuity along one of them, go with that. In both the Texas and Minnesota splits, exit number and mileage continuity is maintained along I-35E, so for clinching purposes I would consider those branches part of I-35 and necessary to clinch as a result. Both I-35Ws are mileposted and exit-numbered like 3dis and as such should be treated as independent routes.

For routes that split at the end, it is my opinion that the forks aren't necessary unless you want to clinch them separately on their own. Supporting this analysis is the existing exit numbers on I-69, which imply a zero point in Victoria (site of the future split 69W-69E split).

I don't like this approach for the Texas I-35 E/W split, because I-35W is the shorter of the two.  To me, it makes little sense to count the route with mile marker continuity instead of the one that's 16 miles shorter.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 20, 2022, 11:24:24 AM

Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 11:01:08 AM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 20, 2022, 10:50:07 AM
Let's put it this way. I'm also not claiming a clinch of I-69 unless I get W, C, and (both) E.

I'm intrigued to know if the others in your camp will take this same stance on 69.

You're saying it would be nice to know?

Yes.  The discussion about how to handle the E/W branches of I-35 intrigues me.  And I had already the "all branches" crowd would handle the E/W/C branches of I-69.  So, when |JayhawkCO| specified his position on the matter, I'm intrigued to know if the others will hold the same position.  It's quite the intriguing question.

I was referring to two specific characters in your post.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kphoger

Quote from: 1995hoo on April 20, 2022, 12:07:36 PM
I was referring to two specific characters in your post.

* whoosh *

...still over my head, I'm afraid...
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

JayhawkCO


US 89

Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: US 89 on April 20, 2022, 11:55:49 AM

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 19, 2022, 07:26:53 PM
Kind of curious, how does the general community count how I-35 gets clinched? For the route in both TX and MN, is it excluding both branches (with a gap in route), one branch of your choice, the branch with exit number continuation, or both branches? Personally, I prefer mainline with the branch with the exit number continuation (35E in both cases, it seems like), but I'm not sure if that's wrong or not.

My thought on this is "it depends".

For routes that split and rejoin, such as the two I-35 splits, if there's an obvious continuity along one of them, go with that. In both the Texas and Minnesota splits, exit number and mileage continuity is maintained along I-35E, so for clinching purposes I would consider those branches part of I-35 and necessary to clinch as a result. Both I-35Ws are mileposted and exit-numbered like 3dis and as such should be treated as independent routes.

For routes that split at the end, it is my opinion that the forks aren't necessary unless you want to clinch them separately on their own. Supporting this analysis is the existing exit numbers on I-69, which imply a zero point in Victoria (site of the future split 69W-69E split).

I don't like this approach for the Texas I-35 E/W split, because I-35W is the shorter of the two.  To me, it makes little sense to count the route with mile marker continuity instead of the one that's 16 miles shorter.

Okay, so would you clinch I-475 in Georgia instead of I-75?

7/8

Quote from: CoreySamson on April 20, 2022, 11:46:13 AM
Just FYI:

As for clinching purposes and marking travels, I regard suffixed routes as entirely separate from the route they were conceived from. Hence, in the case of I-35, I regard it as 5 separate routes: I-35 (in 3 discontiguous sections), I-35W (Fort Worth), I-35E (Dallas), I-35W (Minneapolis), and I-35E (St. Paul). I-69 would be 4 routes: I-69 (even though it is fragmented), I-69E, I-69C, and I-69W. This goes for US routes, too. Hence, if I went on the 3 discontinuous sections of I-35 and none of the suffixed routes, then I would consider it clinched (because I have been on all of the road marked or internally listed as I-35).

Agreed, this seems like the easiest solution.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: 7/8 on April 20, 2022, 12:22:04 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 20, 2022, 11:46:13 AM
Just FYI:

As for clinching purposes and marking travels, I regard suffixed routes as entirely separate from the route they were conceived from. Hence, in the case of I-35, I regard it as 5 separate routes: I-35 (in 3 discontiguous sections), I-35W (Fort Worth), I-35E (Dallas), I-35W (Minneapolis), and I-35E (St. Paul). I-69 would be 4 routes: I-69 (even though it is fragmented), I-69E, I-69C, and I-69W. This goes for US routes, too. Hence, if I went on the 3 discontinuous sections of I-35 and none of the suffixed routes, then I would consider it clinched (because I have been on all of the road marked or internally listed as I-35).

Agreed, this seems like the easiest solution.

But the wrong one.  ;-)

kphoger

Quote from: US 89 on April 20, 2022, 12:19:51 PM
Okay, so would you clinch I-475 in Georgia instead of I-75?

Me?  I consider I-35 and each iteration of I-35E and I-35W as separate routes (five total).  So I personally don't require any of the E/W splits to be clinched to count an I-35 clinch.

But, if I did require one and only one of them, then it would make more sense to pick the shorter of the two–not the one with milepost consistency.

So, in direct answer to your question:  of course not, because I-475 and I-75 are separate routes.  Nobody would consider I-475 to be a "branch" of I-75 in the same way that people consider I-35W to be a "branch" of I-35.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

NWI_Irish96

In theory, I consider I-35 to be the route that goes through the primary city in each metro area (Dallas/Minneapolis). I consider the other branches to be 3di that got a 2di with a suffix to placate people.

In practice, there's no way I'll ever clinch the entirety of I-35 without getting both branches in both metro areas so the point is moot.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

hbelkins

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 19, 2022, 07:26:53 PM
Kind of curious, how does the general community count how I-35 gets clinched? For the route in both TX and MN, is it excluding both branches (with a gap in route), one branch of your choice, the branch with exit number continuation, or both branches? Personally, I prefer mainline with the branch with the exit number continuation (35E in both cases, it seems like), but I'm not sure if that's wrong or not.

Cue vdeane's oft-mentioned complaint about split routes.

I would count them as separate routes. For the US routes, it would be three routes. (I.e.; US 11, US 11E, and US 11W) with US 70 being a special example since it has N and S splits and the mainline continues as its own numbered route.

So for I-35, you have five routes. All of I-35, and then I-35E in both Texas and Minnesota, and I-35W in both states.

Using US 11 as an example, if I enter the state driving south from West Virginia and drive the entire length of the route to the intersection of Euclid and Commonwealth in Bristol, then hang a right onto VA 381 to reach I-81 to head back north, I have clinched US 11 in Virginia. I have not, however, clinched US 11E (which continues straight) or US 11W (which turns to the left).

So, if you enter I-35 at the Texas-Oklahoma border and drive south, then continue south along I-35W, and then continue south on 35 after the two splits rejoin, you have clinched both I-35 in Texas and I-35W in Texas. I consider I-35E and W in Texas and Minnesota to be separate routes, much like the eastern and western versions of interstates like 84, 88, etc.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

TheHighwayMan3561

In MN, the legal definition of I-35 follows I-35E, so I have considered 35/35E to be one route and 35W to be another route.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

golden eagle

AL: I-10, I-20, I-65, I-85
AR: I-30, I-40, I-55
AZ: I-8, I-10
FL: I-4, I-10, I-75
GA: I-20, I-75
IL: I-57, I-70, I-72, I-90, I-94
IN: I-70, I-94
KS: I-70
LA: I-12, I-20, I-55, I-59
MI: I-75, I-94
MS: I-10, I-20, I-55, I-59,
MO: I-55, I-57, I-70
NC: I-40 (though only on the concurrency with I-85), I-85
OH: I-70, I-71, I-75
SC: I-20, I-85
TN: I-55, I-65, US 51, US 61
TX: I-20, I-35E

CtrlAltDel

Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 11:01:08 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 20, 2022, 10:50:07 AM
Let's put it this way. I'm also not claiming a clinch of I-69 unless I get W, C, and (both) E.

I'm intrigued to know if the others in your camp will take this same stance on 69.

I would require all branches to be clinched.
Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)

CtrlAltDel

Quote from: webny99 on April 20, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 20, 2022, 09:53:30 AM
In my view, the E and W branches are both equally part of I-35, and so to clinch the route, you need them both.

I agree with the bolded statement, but arrive at a different conclusion: They're both equally part of the route, so it doesn't matter which branch you clinch as long as you fully clinch one or the other (forming a continuous route).

And just to reiterate my point, that's why I think you can't leave either of them out.
Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)

kphoger

So do you have to clinch both the local and express lanes of a highway with that setup?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 02:35:51 PM
So do you have to clinch both the local and express lanes of a highway with that setup?

Or something like US14 and US14Alt in Wyoming. If you take Alt, does that mean you've clinched 14? It's basically the same setup as 35E/W.

Evan_Th

Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 20, 2022, 03:08:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 02:35:51 PM
So do you have to clinch both the local and express lanes of a highway with that setup?

Or something like US14 and US14Alt in Wyoming. If you take Alt, does that mean you've clinched 14? It's basically the same setup as 35E/W.

No; one of the routes there is clearly labeled US 14.  It'd be more similar to the US 19E/19W split in NC and TN.

JayhawkCO

I didn't say it was the exact same thing, but either way, you have two possible ways to go with a "14" on the sign.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.