On the enigma/perplexity that is Breezewood......

[planxtymcgillicuddy]

A trio of simple questions regarding the glaring flaw that is Breezewood:

1. Why is I-70 the way it is through Breezewood?

2. Has there ever been at least a half-legitimate proposal to knock out the wonkiness that is 70 through Breezewood?

3. What would it take to actually get the situation ironed out there?

[Beltway]

A trio of simple questions regarding the glaring flaw that is Breezewood:
1. Why is I-70 the way it is through Breezewood?
2. Has there ever been at least a half-legitimate proposal to knock out the wonkiness that is 70 through Breezewood?
3. What would it take to actually get the situation ironed out there?

1) Recalcitrance of the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission.
2) Yes, on this forum, but no official proposal that I am aware of.
3) Posted before --
Two 45-mph ramps that could be one lane wide but preferably would be two lanes wide.  Would provide a full direct connection between I-70 and both directions of the Turnpike.

Using my Turnpike/I-70 connection scheme, Breezewood could actually be a nice easily accessible large oasis for travelers who want any of a variety of services.  Lot less congestion there as well.

[planxtymcgillicuddy]

A trio of simple questions regarding the glaring flaw that is Breezewood:
1. Why is I-70 the way it is through Breezewood?
2. Has there ever been at least a half-legitimate proposal to knock out the wonkiness that is 70 through Breezewood?
3. What would it take to actually get the situation ironed out there?

1) Recalcitrance of the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission.
2) Yes, on this forum, but no official proposal that I am aware of.
3) Posted before --
Two 45-mph ramps that could be one lane wide but preferably would be two lanes wide.  Would provide a full direct connection between I-70 and both directions of the Turnpike.

Using my Turnpike/I-70 connection scheme, Breezewood could actually be a nice easily accessible large oasis for travelers who want any of a variety of services.  Lot less congestion there as well.

I really like your proposal. So if your proposal ever came to be, I would assume that the current route to U.S. 30 would become a business spur/loop?

[Beltway]

I really like your proposal. So if your proposal ever came to be, I would assume that the current route to U.S. 30 would become a business spur/loop?

Yes, it could be signed as Business Loop 70.

[Rothman]

Yet another Breezewood thread?

[formulanone]

Yet another Breezewood thread?

But this one doesn't directly connect to the other Breezewood threads!

[planxtymcgillicuddy]

Yet another Breezewood thread?

But this one doesn't directly connect to the other Breezewood threads!

I hate myself for laughing as hard as I did lol

[Rothman]

Yet another Breezewood thread?

But this one doesn't directly connect to the other Breezewood threads!

This was remarkably well-played.

[kphoger]

Yet another Breezewood thread?

But this one doesn't directly connect to the other Breezewood threads!

LOL !!

[webny99]

Yet another Breezewood thread?

But this one doesn't directly connect to the other Breezewood threads!

Yep! That is exactly how the discussion in the last 50+ of these threads has gone, minus the nice play!

<in b4 lock>

[Max Rockatansky]

Have we ever had an abandoned PA Turnpike thread?  That seems like the way more interesting aspect of Breezewood rather than asking the same questions for the thousandth time. 

[planxtymcgillicuddy]

Have we ever had an abandoned PA Turnpike thread?  That seems like the way more interesting aspect of Breezewood rather than asking the same questions for the thousandth time.

I've often wondered why they just didnt use/upgrade that stretch of the turnpike, or, if they wanted to ditch that section of turnpike anyway, run 70 along or on U.S. 30 to York, then have it it take over from York to Baltimore.

[Max Rockatansky]

Have we ever had an abandoned PA Turnpike thread?  That seems like the way more interesting aspect of Breezewood rather than asking the same questions for the thousandth time.

I've often wondered why they just didnt use/upgrade that stretch of the turnpike, or, if they wanted to ditch that section of turnpike anyway, run 70 along or on U.S. 30 to York, then have it it take over from York to Baltimore.

It was probably less expensive to excavate new lanes than trying to excavate a tunnel or twin it. 

[vdeane]

A trio of simple questions regarding the glaring flaw that is Breezewood:
1. Why is I-70 the way it is through Breezewood?
2. Has there ever been at least a half-legitimate proposal to knock out the wonkiness that is 70 through Breezewood?
3. What would it take to actually get the situation ironed out there?

1) Recalcitrance of the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission.
2) Yes, on this forum, but no official proposal that I am aware of.
3) Posted before --
Two 45-mph ramps that could be one lane wide but preferably would be two lanes wide.  Would provide a full direct connection between I-70 and both directions of the Turnpike.

Using my Turnpike/I-70 connection scheme, Breezewood could actually be a nice easily accessible large oasis for travelers who want any of a variety of services.  Lot less congestion there as well.

1. To elaborate, federal law prohibited interstate money from being used to connect to toll roads.  The PTC and PennDOT not wanting to use their own money, instead built separate adjacent interchanges just about everywhere.
2. I believe I read that once there was a push in the legislature to fix it in response to a crash, but the businesses cried so loud so fast that it died very quickly and that nothing even remotely resembling a complete proposal had a chance to even get started.
3. What Beltway said.

I really like your proposal. So if your proposal ever came to be, I would assume that the current route to U.S. 30 would become a business spur/loop?

Yes, it could be signed as Business Loop 70.

Not really a fan of interstate business routes, but if that's what it would take to get this fixed...

[Beltway]

1. To elaborate, federal law prohibited interstate money from being used to connect to toll roads.  The PTC and PennDOT not wanting to use their own money, instead built separate adjacent interchanges just about everywhere.

I keep hearing this, but only PA seemed to have this problem.  Maybe simply because other states used 100% state funding if needed, and construction costs were a lot lower back then.

But as it was they extended I-70 0.62 mile beyond the turnpike crossing when they didn't have to --

Because the PTC was unwilling to use its own revenues for an interchange at Breezewood, State highway officials used Federal-aid highway funds to extend I-70 north beyond the turnpike to a terminus with U.S. 30. Consistent with Section 113(b), this configuration allowed motorists to use a toll-free route (U.S. 30) or the turnpike to travel east or west of Breezewood.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/tollroad.cfm

[ilpt4u]

Plenty of other states have and/or had missing Toll Road/Freeway Interchanges

NJ Turnpike (now I-95)/I-295
Ohio Turnpike/I-475
Ohio Turnpike/I-271
Indiana Toll Road/I-65 used to be missing Direct Ramps
Tri-State Tollway/I-57 (partially resolved)
Tri-State Tollway/I-55 has a missing Direct Movement to this day
NY Thruway/Northway for Thru I-87 is an Honorable Mention for Indirect Connection

[vdeane]

I-95/I-295 on the NJ Turnpike extension to PA actually has reasons beyond that for not having a connection - namely, proximity to other interchanges, and the fact that I-195 handles some of the missing movements.

At least the I-90/I-87 interchanges are still freeway/freeway.  The Thruway did actually have a full Breezewood until 2009/2010 - I-87/I-84.  One could still argue I-87/NY 23, though NY 23 isn't really a freeway and that's largely due to terrain as much as anything else, and of course there's I-87/I-587 (also debatable as a freeway, despite being an interstate), and I-90/I-790 (but only in one direction).

[ilpt4u]

Thruway/Northway is a very Indirect Freeway-Freeway Interchange, and the stub for a much more direct connection is clearly there, but has not been connected. Hence the "Honorable Mention"  tag

Still, better than a true Breezewood, using At Grades to make the movement

[Beltway]

Plenty of other states have and/or had missing Toll Road/Freeway Interchanges
NJ Turnpike (now I-95)/I-295

No major traffic need, as I-195 makes the high volume movement subset.

Ohio Turnpike/I-475

A missing interchange.

Ohio Turnpike/I-271

I-77 and I-80 make this connection, albeit 3 miles farther.

Indiana Toll Road/I-65 used to be missing Direct Ramps

As you say, resolved.

Tri-State Tollway/I-57 (partially resolved)

I-80 and I-294 provided a connection was adequate until traffic increases caused problems after about 2000.

Tri-State Tollway/I-55 has a missing Direct Movement to this day

All are there and limited access even if not high speed.

[ilpt4u]

Tri-State Tollway/I-55 has a missing Direct Movement to this day

All are there and limited access even if not high speed.

Technically the I-55 South to Tri-State/I-294 South movement is Freeflow, but not fully Limited Access, as US 12/20/45/LaGrange Rd South between the 2 fills in for the missing movement and across the river/canal/etc...but LaGrange Rd does have an at grade RIRO on that stretch...just no Stoplights

[Beltway]

Tri-State Tollway/I-55 has a missing Direct Movement to this day

All are there and limited access even if not high speed.

Technically the I-55 South to Tri-State/I-294 South movement is Freeflow, but not fully Limited Access, as US 12/20/45/LaGrange Rd South between the 2 fills in for the missing movement and across the river/canal/etc...but LaGrange Rd does have an at grade RIRO on that stretch...just no Stoplights

Oh ok I see that ... I-55 and the Tristate cross at a very acute angle, and there is no loop to make that movement. 

The US-45 arterial segment can be utilized to make the connection, which is probably a low volume movement.

[jeffandnicole]

I believe I read that once there was a push in the legislature to fix it in response to a crash, but the businesses cried so loud so fast that it died very quickly and that nothing even remotely resembling a complete proposal had a chance to even get started.

Businesses grumbling isn't unusual.  However they had a huge advantage - Bud Shuster, the congressman in the Breezewood area - was in charge of the Transportation committee. In that position he can easily promote or kill any bill he desires.

[Verlanka]

Yet another Breezewood thread?

But this one doesn't directly connect to the other Breezewood threads!

[Brandon]

Tri-State Tollway/I-55 has a missing Direct Movement to this day

All are there and limited access even if not high speed.

Technically the I-55 South to Tri-State/I-294 South movement is Freeflow, but not fully Limited Access, as US 12/20/45/LaGrange Rd South between the 2 fills in for the missing movement and across the river/canal/etc...but LaGrange Rd does have an at grade RIRO on that stretch...just no Stoplights

Oh ok I see that ... I-55 and the Tristate cross at a very acute angle, and there is no loop to make that movement. 

The US-45 arterial segment can be utilized to make the connection, which is probably a low volume movement.

It is a lower volume movement; however, the main reason for the lack of the ramp is due to the topography and development at the interchange that was pre-existing even in 1964 (when the Stevenson opened).  US-66 (which used the freeway to the west (opened 1956)) already had full movements there, with the current trumpet for the northbound Tri-State (that was added on to for the Stevenson), and the ramps to/from Wolf Road.  My best guess is that the golf course owner must have some clout somewhere.

[hbelkins]

I'll say again that I don't like the term "Breezewood" used to describe general locations where freeways don't intersect and you have to use a surface route to make the connection, such as I-80 and the Northeast Extension, or I-81 and the Turnpike main line.

Breezewood is a special situation because you have to use a surface route to continue on the numbered interstate. I-676 in Philadelphia and I-78 in New Jersey are better examples.

Also as I've said before, there's not a whole lot left in Breezewood to have any clout. Lots of abandoned motels and restaurants.  I honestly don't think a direct connection is going to hurt the town very much. If you need gas, you're hungry, or you want to spend the night, you're going to do so anyway whether you have to go through a traffic-congested two-block section or if you have to go a mile off the mainline to do so.