Ohio SR 11 -- Future Interstate designation???

[thenetwork]

I've always wondered if ODOT would ever consider converting Ohio SR 11 to an interstate between Youngstown & Ashtabula, or even replacing the entire SR 11 with an interstate designation by extending it south to East Liverpool?

PROS:

-- It would give Youngstown & East-Central Ohio a North-South Interstate.
-- It would emphasize a clearer bypass around Cleveland for those traveling between Buffalo and   
    Columbus/Canton on 71/77 respectively -- especially if the US 30 freeway is ever finished between East
     Liverpool and Canton..
-- At least for the northern leg of SR 11, it could be an additional segment of the future I-376..  There would
    only be a 15 mile multiplex of I-376 with I-80 between SR 11 and PA-60.

CONS:

-- It would not be a heavily traveled interstate.
-- There are no other sizeable towns between Youngstown/Warren/Cortland and Ashtabula that an interstate
     would really benefit.
-- There would have to be some upgrades to SR-11, namely the shared at-grade Rest Area south of US 322,
     and the I-90/SR 11 interchange (particularly the Southwest corner of the interchange).

If you were to designate just the northern half of SR 11, it could be designated as a continuation of I-376 (as mentioned above), I-590, I-790 or I-990 for the I-90 connection, or I-380/580/780/980 for the I-80 connection.  If you were to include both halves of SR 11, then I-376 would be eliminated from the list of possible 3-di numbers.

You could also terminate I-xxx's North end at I-90, then the remaining part of SR 11 could be renamed SR 46, which currently ends a few miles south of I-90 at SR 11.  This would mark a return of SR 46 in Ashtabula since it's truncation at SR-11 south of town decades ago.  SR-46 would multiplex I-xxx for one exit to I-90.

Another option is if you were to "interstate" only the northern half of SR-11 section and forgo the I-376 designation, then I-xxx could replace the entire SR-711 designation and end at I-680 near downtown Youngstown.

Thoughts???

[ctsignguy]

I lived in that area for a few years back in the mid-80s....

Ohio 11 sees mostly light truck traffic on its way to Ashtabula harbor (and occasionally, traffic takes it instead of I-79 which resides 20-30 miles further east).  I dont think this road should get an Interstate designation (although if Guv'nor Jim (Rhodes) were still around, he would push for it!  Rhodes means roads!) because it really isnt a logical extension of either I-76, I-80 or I-90...

For the Interstate grid as a whole, Ohio 11 is badly placed and doesnt serve any major area with enough traffic to warrant even a look...

now, of the multi-lane Ohio State Routes that might warrant an Interstate designation, maybe Ohio 2 from where it jumps off I-90 near Willoughby and heads northeast until it ends at US 20 in Perry Township could be recommissioned as I-x90 since it serves tourist areas and has no grade-level intersections that i recall...

[Alps]

OK so why was 11 converted to a (mostly) freeway if it sees such light volumes?  Is it because the conversion largely happened before I-79 and then the Interstate siphoned off the traffic?

[Sykotyk]

Well, I've grown up just a few miles from OH-11 most of my early life.

OH-11 really doesn't have much need. As mentioned, I-79 is not far to the east and already is lightly traveled. The other issue is that it is simply a small section of road (I-90 to I-80).

The issue I have is if you designate one stretch an interstate (2di or 3di), you still have the stub-end in Ashtabula, and the rest of OH-11 south to East Liverpool.

So, even if you discard OH-11 south of I-80 as a 'separate' road, you still have one road with two designations, which, generally, I'm against.

I've always wanted to see, if they do want to go all-out on OH-11, bypass East Liverpool and continue it along OH-7. Take out the intersection with the rest area, as well as the OH-213/US-22 intersection in Steubenville, find some way to rework the Dean Martin Blvd through Steubenville (block off stretchs, put an overpass where University Blvd ends at OH-7 to allow access to the Marina over the railroad tracks. Close off N 4th, all an exit ramp behind the high school for southbound only, along with an exit for Adams and Lincoln. In Martins Ferry, allow the crossroads to have overpasses that end just east of OH-7 with elevated on/off ramps from OH-7 to allow it to be a freeway. You don't need an interchange with I-70, but definitely a full-interchange needs to be built at I-470.

Tough to label it as a 2di, as 69 through 99 are now taken. I-67 is out of place. As would be something such as I-11 or such. A x90 (little used in Ohio) would work well. Or x70, maybe.



As for OH-2 from I-90 east towards the freeway's end on US-20, I've driven it to OH-44 (the freeway going back south to I-90). It's a full-freeway at least until that point. It can't be a loop (with OH-44), because OH-44 doesn't have a full interchange when it touches I-90. But a spur from I-90 makes a lot of sense.

I'd always have liked OH-2 to be a freeway from I-280 to I-90 as well (I-92, for instance, an an x90).

But, as long as the Turnpike is trying to make money, there won't be another freeway. Just like US-30 in Indiana will never see an upgrades. At least Ohio is upgrading US-30 to be a freeway or expressway from I-75 to I-71.

Sykotyk

[ctsignguy]

OK so why was 11 converted to a (mostly) freeway if it sees such light volumes?  Is it because the conversion largely happened before I-79 and then the Interstate siphoned off the traffic?

One word.....politics

[Hellfighter]

I don't think there's enough traffic on OH-11 for it to warrant an interstate shield.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

So far all of you are missing the historical context for Oh 11's creation.
Back in the 1950s & 60s Northeast Ohio was still a thriving industrial complex. 
Ashtabula was still a major port along Lake Erie, Warren-Youngstown was producing steel, and even East Liverpool was a hub for clay pottery. That is why Ohio (not the feds) wanted to build an expressway(turned freeway) between those cities.
Couple of other notes here.  Oh 2 was originally proposed to extend east from Cleveland to Ashtabula (and Oh 11). And the Oh 11 expressway was to continue south to I-70 as Oh 7 (which to some extent it has been completed).

The demise of the Midwest manufacturing base has left many a interstate proposal either as artwork in libraries or in some cases modern drivers wondering "why is this here."

[leifvanderwall]

I think it should be an interstate all the way , but a 3DI . I would include the Ohio 7 corridor from Wheeling to US 30. I would name the road I-570.

[Sykotyk]

A lot of work would need to be done on the OH-7 stretch.

Bypass of East Liverpool. Remove the intersection at the rest area. Bypass Empire/Stratton at the power plant, The OH-7/US-22/OH-213 intersection north of Steubenville. Removing the light at the US-22/OH-7/University Blvd intersection. Redo OH-7 through the south side of Steubenville. Including an interchange for the southern terminus of OH-43 (which deadends into the county jail by the river). Removing some--essentially--right turns on OH-7 southbound into better ramps. Removing lights, railroad tracks, etc through Martins Ferry. Deciding how to tie into I-70, if at all. That neighborhood of Bridgeport would have to be decimated to have a direct interchange. Best would be to keep it a freeway to I-470 and only make that the the only tie-in to an interstate at its southern end.

As for Empire/Stratton, OH-7 goes UNDER a coal-fired power plant. There's several driveways directly into parts of the plants that would have to either be removed, or the highway bypassed up the hill around the power plant. You can't put it on stilts into the river as there's a lock and dam located right next to the plant across the Ohio River.

Steubenville & Martins Ferry would require quite a restructuring to removing intersections but still allow local access as OH-7 is a major north-south route in both towns near the river. Martins Ferry would be cleaved in half. Best suggestion would be to elevate OH-7 in that stretch and use short (maybe even substandard) slip-ramps to street level for the major cross roads. The space is way too tight with the hill and train tracks in Martins Ferry to allow the prototypical frontage roads.

There would be no direct tie-in to I-70, which is fine for me. Because, I feel I-70 should be routed along I-470. Without destroying Bridgeport. The only thing workable would be monstrous fly-over ramps SB-EB and and EB-NB.

I'd like to see it. But population level, etc just precludes it.

Considering in roughly 40 miles, there's three north-south freeway/expressway routes (OH 7/11, PA 60/Future I-376, I-79) between I-80 and US 22.

Sykotyk

[Alps]

Just for fun, I stopped in the northern rest area between US 322 and US 6 on the way back from Indy (via Detroit to Erie).  Made a left from 11 NB into the rest area and another left back out.  Easy as pie, and I picked up a new Ohio map.  Mmmm, pie.  So who knows how long people will be able to do that?

[Sykotyk]

Until they really look into an interstate designation, and as long as the traffic flow in that stretch stays the same, I don't see a need to do anything with removing the crossover.

Last time I drove that stretch of OH-11 was back in 1998 or 1999, was that rest area even there? I drove it at night heading north, but swear I would've remembered a left turn to the rest area (unless the lack of traffic that I just assumed it was in the median.

Sykotyk

[mightyace]

Until they really look into an interstate designation, and as long as the traffic flow in that stretch stays the same, I don't see a need to do anything with removing the crossover.

Last time I drove that stretch of OH-11 was back in 1998 or 1999, was that rest area even there? I drove it at night heading north, but swear I would've remembered a left turn to the rest area (unless the lack of traffic that I just assumed it was in the median.

Sykotyk

I last took that stretch of highway in 1992 or 1993 and remember using that rest area then and you had to cross the SB lanes then.

[exit322]

Yeah, OH 11 has no real need to be an interstate - especially with manufacturing down in this area and not looking to come back up, the Steubenville/East Liverpool - Youngstown - Ashtabula route probably isn't going to ever be too busy.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Until they really look into an interstate designation, and as long as the traffic flow in that stretch stays the same, I don't see a need to do anything with removing the crossover.

Sykotyk

That Rest Area & Crossover have been there ever since Oh 11 was completed in that area.

[thenetwork]

Another oddity of OH-11 is that at one of the exits next to the Youngstown Airport (King Graves Road), there is a CEMETERY within the diamond interchange!!!!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Warren,+OH&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.396866,53.789062&ie=UTF8&ll=41.271352,-80.703641&spn=0.000996,0.001642&t=h&z=19&iwloc=A

[mightyace]

Another oddity of OH-11 is that at one of the exits next to the Youngstown Airport (King Graves Road), there is a CEMETERY within the diamond interchange!!!!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Warren,+OH&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.396866,53.789062&ie=UTF8&ll=41.271352,-80.703641&spn=0.000996,0.001642&t=h&z=19&iwloc=A

It's not the only one.  Exit 79 on I-65 in TN (TN SSR 441 - Moore's Lane) has a small one in the northwest corner.

I'll replace this line with a Google maps link later.

[Hellfighter]

Another oddity of OH-11 is that at one of the exits next to the Youngstown Airport (King Graves Road), there is a CEMETERY within the diamond interchange!!!!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Warren,+OH&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.396866,53.789062&ie=UTF8&ll=41.271352,-80.703641&spn=0.000996,0.001642&t=h&z=19&iwloc=A

That's great! Just wake the dead up with 4 semis rumbling through.

[Sykotyk]

Funny, I drove by that hundreds of times, and even noted it, but never realized how odd it is. Also, there's a cemetery just off the road on US-30 in western Ohio (where they're slowly upgrading to freeway). Another oddball is US-59 in Texas, although not a freeway, there's a section where a house's driveway exits onto an onramp for US-59 NB.

Sykotyk

[bugo]

There's a cemetery in the middle of a shopping center parking lot in Sand Springs, OK.  It is visible from the US 412 freeway.

There is also a driveway that connects to a ramp on US 54 in Mexico, MO.

[agentsteel53]

somewhere here in California (I believe southern) there is a freeway with some gravestones in the right of way.  I believe along the shoulder.  A google search does not reveal anything, though... and alas I have heard this story too long ago to remember more details.

[The Premier]

If you were to designate just the northern half of SR 11, it could be designated as a continuation of I-376 (as mentioned above), I-590, I-790 or I-990 for the I-90 connection, or I-380/580/780/980 for the I-80 connection.  If you were to include both halves of SR 11, then I-376 would be eliminated from the list of possible 3-di numbers.

I-376 has already been assigned to PA Route 60.

Tough to label it as a 2di, as 69 through 99 are now taken. I-67 is out of place. As would be something such as I-11 or such. A x90 (little used in Ohio) would work well. Or x70, maybe.

That would be a serious possibility of promoting SR 11 into an interstate. The only two issues to that is the stub after I-90 that ends at SR 531 and that rest area.

pared down a huge block quote to include only the relevant point being addressed

[agentsteel53]

I-376 has already been assigned to PA Route 60.

it is permissible to have three-digit interstates of the same number in different states, including neighboring ones.  See the quantity of I-495s, for instance, as close together as Wilmington, DE and the Washington, DC Capital Beltway.  I believe the distance between Pittsburgh and Ashtabula is larger than that, so the two 376s would not get confused with each other.

[froggie]

It'd be a lot closer than that, Jake, since I-376 is now extended along PA 60 up to I-80 near Sharon, PA.  There'd only be 13 miles of separation between the two along I-80, which even beats out the 25 miles between I-291 CT and I-291 MA.

[bugo]

How about a US route number for OH 11 and OH 7?  This way the at grade intersections could remain.  It could extend along the entire route of OH 7 and be easily be extended into Kentucky or West Virginia to give it two states.

[mightyace]

^^^

How about a new US 21?