I-475/US23 projects in Toledo

[sprjus4]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

[Flint1979]

You usually are stuck behind someone putzing along on US-23 between Toledo and Flint as it is. Very under capacity highway.

[TempoNick]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

[Terry Shea]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

A 3-digit interstate makes no sense.  I-73 might make sense, but who'd want to give that inferior roadway any interstate number?  Hey, how about a negative number?

[sprjus4]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

The US-23 freeway doesn't even connect with I-475 to begin with.

[Flint1979]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

It doesn't make sense because US-23 isn't going to end in Toledo in the first place. What about the part between Standish and Mackinaw City? Just because US-23 is a freeway doesn't mean it should be an Interstate the route number is perfectly fine the way it is. What isn't fine is that the highway is under capacity as it is built now. I-275 going through three states means nothing regarding this. Drivers in Michigan are smart enough to figure out what's a freeway and what's not.

[Flint1979]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

The US-23 freeway doesn't even connect with I-475 to begin with.

There was a proposal several years ago to connect the south end of I-475 to US-23 but nothing ever came of it and with development in the area it's probably never going to happen. I haven't heard much about it in years.

[westerninterloper]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

The US-23 freeway doesn't even connect with I-475 to begin with.

There was a proposal several years ago to connect the south end of I-475 to US-23 but nothing ever came of it and with development in the area it's probably never going to happen. I haven't heard much about it in years.

IF a new I-475 stretched from Perrysburg to Flint, what would come of the northern e-w leg of 475 that connects Sylvania and Central Toledo? Would that be I-875?

[sprjus4]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

It doesn't make sense because US-23 isn't going to end in Toledo in the first place. What about the part between Standish and Mackinaw City? Just because US-23 is a freeway doesn't mean it should be an Interstate the route number is perfectly fine the way it is. What isn't fine is that the highway is under capacity as it is built now. I-275 going through three states means nothing regarding this. Drivers in Michigan are smart enough to figure out what's a freeway and what's not.

Nothing regarding US-23's routing is relevant to this to begin with. It would not be affected.

Additionally, the last statement is largely assuming all traffic is local and that long distance travelers / out of state do not exist. If someone is not familiar with the area, the idea one road might be a freeway or not is not clear. An interstate designation would provide clarity.

[thenetwork]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

The US-23 freeway doesn't even connect with I-475 to begin with.

There was a proposal several years ago to connect the south end of I-475 to US-23 but nothing ever came of it and with development in the area it's probably never going to happen. I haven't heard much about it in years.

IF a new I-475 stretched from Perrysburg to Flint, what would come of the northern e-w leg of 475 that connects Sylvania and Central Toledo? Would that be I-875?

You could make it an extention of I-280 via the brief multiplex with I-75.

[skluth]

If US 23 between Toledo and Flint is designated as I-X75, US 23 could be truncated at Toledo while the non-concurrent US 23 north of Bay City could be renamed M-23. There are plenty of examples of US highways becoming state highways with the same number. I don't see any advantage in doing this though. I'm fine with US 23 as is.

[Terry Shea]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

The US-23 freeway doesn't even connect with I-475 to begin with.

There was a proposal several years ago to connect the south end of I-475 to US-23 but nothing ever came of it and with development in the area it's probably never going to happen. I haven't heard much about it in years.

IF a new I-475 stretched from Perrysburg to Flint, what would come of the northern e-w leg of 475 that connects Sylvania and Central Toledo? Would that be I-875?

You could make it an extention of I-280 via the brief multiplex with I-75.

Or you could make it I-238E.  That may not make any sense whatsoever, but it somehow makes more sense than what you just suggested.

[Ellie]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

The US-23 freeway doesn't even connect with I-475 to begin with.

There was a proposal several years ago to connect the south end of I-475 to US-23 but nothing ever came of it and with development in the area it's probably never going to happen. I haven't heard much about it in years.

IF a new I-475 stretched from Perrysburg to Flint, what would come of the northern e-w leg of 475 that connects Sylvania and Central Toledo? Would that be I-875?

You could make it an extention of I-280 via the brief multiplex with I-75.

Or you could make it I-238E.  That may not make any sense whatsoever, but it somehow makes more sense than what you just suggested.

On a more serious note, I've seen I-875 proposed for the route, which I think makes sense as it avoids needing to re-designate any other highways.

I disagree with others here on the lack of utility for signing this as an Interstate; signing it as I-875 would indicate it as a true bypass of the Detroit metro area for long-distance travelers (especially given that I-275 doesn't directly bypass Detroit). On the other hand, whether this is worth the cost of bringing US 23 up to Interstate standards is questionable.

[Flint1979]

I-275 bypasses Detroit like it's supposed to but it doesn't bypass the Metro area.

[Terry Shea]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

The US-23 freeway doesn't even connect with I-475 to begin with.

There was a proposal several years ago to connect the south end of I-475 to US-23 but nothing ever came of it and with development in the area it's probably never going to happen. I haven't heard much about it in years.

IF a new I-475 stretched from Perrysburg to Flint, what would come of the northern e-w leg of 475 that connects Sylvania and Central Toledo? Would that be I-875?

You could make it an extention of I-280 via the brief multiplex with I-75.

Or you could make it I-238E.  That may not make any sense whatsoever, but it somehow makes more sense than what you just suggested.

On a more serious note, I've seen I-875 proposed for the route, which I think makes sense as it avoids needing to re-designate any other highways.

I disagree with others here on the lack of utility for signing this as an Interstate; signing it as I-875 would indicate it as a true bypass of the Detroit metro area for long-distance travelers (especially given that I-275 doesn't directly bypass Detroit). On the other hand, whether this is worth the cost of bringing US 23 up to Interstate standards is questionable.

Proposed by whom?  Certainly not MDOT who has been very outspoken about opposing any 3-digit Interstate routes.  They removed signage on I-296 and refused to give M-6 any I-X96 designation because they believe everyone is stupid and would become confused with so many routes ending with 96.

[Ellie]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

The US-23 freeway doesn't even connect with I-475 to begin with.

There was a proposal several years ago to connect the south end of I-475 to US-23 but nothing ever came of it and with development in the area it's probably never going to happen. I haven't heard much about it in years.

IF a new I-475 stretched from Perrysburg to Flint, what would come of the northern e-w leg of 475 that connects Sylvania and Central Toledo? Would that be I-875?

You could make it an extention of I-280 via the brief multiplex with I-75.

Or you could make it I-238E.  That may not make any sense whatsoever, but it somehow makes more sense than what you just suggested.

On a more serious note, I've seen I-875 proposed for the route, which I think makes sense as it avoids needing to re-designate any other highways.

I disagree with others here on the lack of utility for signing this as an Interstate; signing it as I-875 would indicate it as a true bypass of the Detroit metro area for long-distance travelers (especially given that I-275 doesn't directly bypass Detroit). On the other hand, whether this is worth the cost of bringing US 23 up to Interstate standards is questionable.

Proposed by whom?  Certainly not MDOT who has been very outspoken about opposing any 3-digit Interstate routes.  They removed signage on I-296 and refused to give M-6 any I-X96 designation because they believe everyone is stupid and would become confused with so many routes ending with 96.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1715.msg38511#msg38511, though I misremembered -- it was actually a proposal for signing this as I-475 after all.

And I share your disappointment in MDOT. Likely never getting M-14 signed as I-394 either.

[GaryV]

And I share your disappointment in MDOT. Likely never getting M-14 signed as I-394 either.

Certainly not until it's up to Interstate standards.

[MATraveler128]

Except that Michigan has basically stopped signing new Interstates and will never designate another one ever again.

(Side note, this would be more fit for the Fictional section.)

[TempoNick]

Except that Michigan has basically stopped signing new Interstates and will never designate another one ever again.

(Side note, this would be more fit for the Fictional section.)

You guys act like just because somebody says something, Moses etches it on a tablet. Words are cheap. Just because one administrator or political appointee says something, doesn't mean squat. Things change.

Besides, maybe the guy who said it is just some engineer dork who doesn't understand how to look at things from the standpoint of the traveling public. When you're dealing with the public it's all about making things user friendly. And signing freeways with interstate shields is about as user friendly as it gets. In a split second that Red White and Blue shield tells you what kind of road you're going to be traveling on. No other shield does that.

[Ryctor2018]

Except that Michigan has basically stopped signing new Interstates and will never designate another one ever again.

(Side note, this would be more fit for the Fictional section.)

You guys act like just because somebody says something, Moses etches it on a tablet. Words are cheap. Just because one administrator or political appointee says something, doesn't mean squat. Things change.

Besides, maybe the guy who said it is just some engineer dork who doesn't understand how to look at things from the standpoint of the traveling public. When you're dealing with the public it's all about making things user friendly. And signing freeways with interstate shields is about as user friendly as it gets. In a split second that Red White and Blue shield tells you what kind of road you're going to be traveling on. No other shield does that.

I agree with you in principle. Things can change administration to administration. Road construction is a bit different in that there's a permanency to highways. It's not just Michigan. The state this thread is about, Ohio has a similar philosophy. So does Florida in their own way; in Southeast Florida, most of the freeways numbered FL-8xx could be interstates. The various DOTs have a design that is layered into the philosophy of how the roads are built and numbered.

What some are advocating is a uniform principle to highway building, from interstates down to county roads. But, the interstates weren't built until the late 1950's and 60's. Many routes predate the interstate system. Then you would change the route number (and design to update the road to interstate standards), but people would still complain anyway. When I've gone to Boston, people still say Route 128, even though I-95 was designated decades ago. The same for St. Louis and Hwy 40 instead of I-64. If you change US-23 to an interstate or other roads in Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida, etc. folks will still use the old number for years. Sometimes you can get away with it (US-27/US-127) but I don't believe it is necessary to change numbers just to satisfy some arbitrary engineering principle. That's the beauty of the United States road system. The different quirks and systems from state to state.

[Flint1979]

Parts of US-10, US-23, US-31, US-127, US-131 and state highways such as M-6, M-10, M-53, M-60 and others could all be signed as Interstate's but what difference does it really make? Out of all these US-23 is the only one that is a freeway up to the state line and into the next state (Ohio). What would be the point of making it an Interstate? Am I going to be able to get from Toledo to Flint any quicker if it's an Interstate? I mean seriously the route number means nothing and most people don't even care if it's an Interstate or a US highway or a state highway. US-23 has been a freeway long enough that people already know it's a freeway and for any backups on the freeway that Old US-23 is right there to serve as an alternate route. It's already been mentioned but even if it did become an Interstate it would still be US-23 as well unless the part of US-23 between Standish and Mackinaw City becomes a different route which wouldn't make any sense at all. Michigan isn't trying to get rid of US-23 btw.

[Terry Shea]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

The US-23 freeway doesn't even connect with I-475 to begin with.

There was a proposal several years ago to connect the south end of I-475 to US-23 but nothing ever came of it and with development in the area it's probably never going to happen. I haven't heard much about it in years.

IF a new I-475 stretched from Perrysburg to Flint, what would come of the northern e-w leg of 475 that connects Sylvania and Central Toledo? Would that be I-875?

You could make it an extention of I-280 via the brief multiplex with I-75.

Or you could make it I-238E.  That may not make any sense whatsoever, but it somehow makes more sense than what you just suggested.

On a more serious note, I've seen I-875 proposed for the route, which I think makes sense as it avoids needing to re-designate any other highways.

I disagree with others here on the lack of utility for signing this as an Interstate; signing it as I-875 would indicate it as a true bypass of the Detroit metro area for long-distance travelers (especially given that I-275 doesn't directly bypass Detroit). On the other hand, whether this is worth the cost of bringing US 23 up to Interstate standards is questionable.

Proposed by whom?  Certainly not MDOT who has been very outspoken about opposing any 3-digit Interstate routes.  They removed signage on I-296 and refused to give M-6 any I-X96 designation because they believe everyone is stupid and would become confused with so many routes ending with 96.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1715.msg38511#msg38511, though I misremembered -- it was actually a proposal for signing this as I-475 after all.

And I share your disappointment in MDOT. Likely never getting M-14 signed as I-394 either.

Again, proposed by whom?  "There's talk of..." and proposals are not the same thing.  Certainly MDOT or any governmental authority didn't propose this, or anything on that particular post.  Everything on there appears to belong n Fictional Highways, as does the bulk of the discussion here, even though it didn't start out that way.

[skluth]

While I agree generally, I wouldn't call it I-475 - that already exists. How about I-875?

It should be a separate, unique route from the urban Flint highway.

It's practically a straight line all the way from south of Toledo all the way through Flint. It makes sense to have one Interstate number for that road. Remember, I-275 goes through three states.

The US-23 freeway doesn't even connect with I-475 to begin with.

There was a proposal several years ago to connect the south end of I-475 to US-23 but nothing ever came of it and with development in the area it's probably never going to happen. I haven't heard much about it in years.

IF a new I-475 stretched from Perrysburg to Flint, what would come of the northern e-w leg of 475 that connects Sylvania and Central Toledo? Would that be I-875?

You could make it an extention of I-280 via the brief multiplex with I-75.

Or you could make it I-238E.  That may not make any sense whatsoever, but it somehow makes more sense than what you just suggested.

On a more serious note, I've seen I-875 proposed for the route, which I think makes sense as it avoids needing to re-designate any other highways.

I disagree with others here on the lack of utility for signing this as an Interstate; signing it as I-875 would indicate it as a true bypass of the Detroit metro area for long-distance travelers (especially given that I-275 doesn't directly bypass Detroit). On the other hand, whether this is worth the cost of bringing US 23 up to Interstate standards is questionable.

Proposed by whom?  Certainly not MDOT who has been very outspoken about opposing any 3-digit Interstate routes.  They removed signage on I-296 and refused to give M-6 any I-X96 designation because they believe everyone is stupid and would become confused with so many routes ending with 96.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1715.msg38511#msg38511, though I misremembered -- it was actually a proposal for signing this as I-475 after all.

And I share your disappointment in MDOT. Likely never getting M-14 signed as I-394 either.

Again, proposed by whom?  "There's talk of..." and proposals are not the same thing.  Certainly MDOT or any governmental authority didn't propose this, or anything on that particular post.  Everything on there appears to belong n Fictional Highways, as does the bulk of the discussion here, even though it didn't start out that way.

The only way US 23 will be an interstate is if locals push for it. US 41 became I-41 in neighboring Wisconsin because boosters in Appleton, Oshkosh, and Fond du Lac wanted it. (Appleton-Oshkosh is the third-largest metro in WI.) Ann Arbor and Brighton already have interstate access via I-94 and I-96 respectively. Dundee, Milan, and Fenton are probably not large enough to have that influence alone assuming they even want it an interstate highway. You want it to be an interstate, do the legwork to convince the locals. Convincing the entire AA Roads community isn't going to matter, although that's unlikely to happen either.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Why can't we just make all things Michigan...Fictional.
(regards, state of Ohio)

[The Ghostbuster]

Even if the US 23 corridor never gets an Interstate designation, there is one thing that I think should happen. Getting rid of the US 23/US 223 duplex. US 223 should end at US 23's Exit 5 in Michigan, and not ride with US 23 across the state line to Exit 234 in Ohio. Not unless they want to put 223 back on it's original Memorial Hwy./Main St./Monroe St. alignment.