Indiana Notes

[NWI_Irish96]

Google maps is incorrect.  IN 111 does not connect to IN 11 at Laconia.  It turns south where Google Maps has it turning north and dead ends at the Ohio River.  I drove that area a few years ago.

[tdindy88]

I picked up a copy of the new 2018 Indiana Roadway Map and wanted to make a few notes about changes to it. Since this is a general Indiana notes thread then I figure this would be the best spot for this. As a fan of maps I do notice a lot of details to things like this, although I can say that there's not a whole lot different in this year's map as opposed to last year's.

-I-69 in Southern Indiana has no changes from last year. Sections 1-4 are shown complete and Section 5 is shown as under construction. For once this is accurate.

-SR 61 bypass around Boonville is shown as complete. I haven't heard much about his project but last I checked it was not finished.

-US 50 bypass around North Vernon is finished and signed on the map. SR 3 is shown along its usual route north of North Vernon as well.

-SR 641 bypass is shown as complete but is now marked as a divided highway with interchanges as opposed to a freeway

-I-65 and SR 265 bridges over the Ohio River at Louisville are shown correctly as tolled highways

-Exit 97 on I-65 in Greenwood is marked.

-US 31 and SR 28 interchange west of Tipton is shown

-Exit 227 along US 31 north of Plymouth is still not shown

-And on a non-highway note: The city of Clinton in Vermillion County, was apparently downgraded in terms of city size based on population. On the Indiana map communities with more than 5,000 people have their city limits shown, those below that have either a rectangle with a circle inside of it, a double circle or a single circle based on size. Clinton was moved from the city-limits showing to the rectangle with circle symbology, maybe something that might only interest me, but I've never seen a community go down in symbology as opposed as going up, getting city limits added due to additional growth in places like Ellettsville, Batesville and Avon.

On another note, I'm still not a fan of the newer Indiana map design over the past few years, getting rid of all the city insets, I don't know of many states that have done something like that. And for places like Lafayette having a city map might be helpful to people (yeah, yeah, there's phones and stuff like that too.) Kind of egregious this year, there's two identical "advertisements" on the map about Indiana's new Real ID law that I don't think has much meaning on a map that's focused more on people traveling through the state.

[silverback1065]

it won't open until this year now http://wiky.com/news/articles/2017/nov/07/boonville-bypass-opening-delayed-until-2018/

[silverback1065]

So I called INDOT this morning about 2 signage problems in the Kokomo area.

The first was the fact that exit 161 on US 31 incorrectly states the exit is for "East Blvd ; CR 100 S" when it should be "Boulevard St. ; CR 100 S"  they said that they acknowledge the error, talked to the city, and they were ok with it, and determined that it shouldn't be confusing to motorists.  Someone on here mentioned this issue, I forget who it was, but credit to them for figuring this one out!

The second was discovered by monty I believe from here.  There are no signs for US 35 turning right to join US 31 at the Markland exit.  They said they will look into it and get back to me in a few weeks.  So maybe that one will be fixed.  We'll see. 

Anyone notice any other signage screw ups around the state?

[theline]

The first was the fact that exit 161 on US 31 incorrectly states the exit is for "East Blvd ; CR 100 S" when it should be "Boulevard St. ; CR 100 S"  they said that they acknowledge the error, talked to the city, and they were ok with it, and determined that it shouldn't be confusing to motorists.  Someone on here mentioned this issue, I forget who it was, but credit to them for figuring this one out!

I was the one who brought up that sign error, in this thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17892.msg2240546#msg2240546. Boulevard is a dumb name for a street, but that's the name. If that's the name INDOT should use it properly, but it's not up to me. Thanks for reporting it.

[silverback1065]

INDOT really wants to commission I-31.  they've just installed new mile markers between at least mm 124 and 126, every tenth of a mile it incorrectly shows i-31 shields.   

[Terry Shea]

INDOT really wants to commission I-31.  they've just installed new mile markers between at least mm 124 and 126, every tenth of a mile it incorrectly shows i-31 shields.   

This is on US-31 I take it?

[silverback1065]

Yes, and they're going to fix it.

Pixel 2 XL

[silverback1065]

https://www.ibj.com/articles/67125-north-split-construction-critics-want-more-neighborhood-friendly-plan

This proves you can't build anything without someone bitching about it.  What these guys propose is insane, do they know how much a tunnel would cost?  Plus 170k cars at the north split alone on a surface street? give me a break!

[PurdueBill]

https://www.ibj.com/articles/67125-north-split-construction-critics-want-more-neighborhood-friendly-plan

This proves you can't build anything without someone bitching about it.  What these guys propose is insane, do they know how much a tunnel would cost?  Plus 170k cars at the north split alone on a surface street? give me a break!

Well, you know, everyone will be sent around 465 so it's no problem.  Sigh.

The comments are fun to read.  "They tore down the Embarcadero and no traffic problems, so there would be none here!".....sure. They didn't interrupt two major Interstates where they meet; they demolished something that was already a stub.  Do the people who say that use 465?  It already is often awful without adding ALL the traffic trying to get across on I-70 or I-65.

I doubt the Feds would like the idea of interrupting I-65 or I-70 for a surface street, or routing both around I-465.  Although if they rerouted right, they could have an overlap of I-65, I-69, I-70, I-74, I-465, US 36, US 40, IN 37, and IN 67. Am I missing any?  Yep, that's a great idea!

[silverback1065]

170k cars use this interchange a day, it's one of the busiest in the state, and a ton of it is from the northern suburbs: Carmel, Westfield, Noblesville, Fishers, Cicero, and exburbs.  The idea of burying it is clearly something someone who's never built a road would say is a good idea.  I doubt this will go anywhere, they'll likely just doll it up a bit to make them stop complaining.  They are supposed to do the same thing at the south split in a few years.  Things that need to be done in the area are to turn all the surface streets being used as exits into concrete pavement facilities, remove all bgs (on surface streets only) and replace them with sgs (small green signs) or shields.  Replace all signs with something more decorative, like the green ones in the wholesale district, do other beautification things, like make the sidewalks with the same bricks as the cultural trail.  that would at least make the new design look better.

I'm interested to see how they are fixing the 11th and 12th street exit roads.  it's understandable, but annoying that the split diamond is placed in between 2 one way pairs, you can get to Illinois, but not Capitol easily, and you can get to delaware and pennsylvania only from one direction (NB has no access to Delaware for some reason). 

I must admit i-70 on the southern end of downtown really did fuck up the street grid royally, I wouldn't remove the highway, but I would change around the exits. 

[csw]

I doubt the Feds would like the idea of interrupting I-65 or I-70 for a surface street, or routing both around I-465.  Although if they rerouted right, they could have an overlap of I-65, I-69, I-70, I-74, I-465, US 36, US 40, IN 37, and IN 67. Am I missing any?  Yep, that's a great idea!

Don't forget US 52 and US 421!

[silverback1065]

I doubt the Feds would like the idea of interrupting I-65 or I-70 for a surface street, or routing both around I-465.  Although if they rerouted right, they could have an overlap of I-65, I-69, I-70, I-74, I-465, US 36, US 40, IN 37, and IN 67. Am I missing any?  Yep, that's a great idea!

Don't forget US 52 and US 421!

could you imagine the signage for that?   

[captkirk_4]

I doubt the Feds would like the idea of interrupting I-65 or I-70 for a surface street, or routing both around I-465.

When I lived in Portland a bunch of granola chomping, environmental wacko, anti-car hipster types were seriously talking about tearing down I-5 through central Portland and making all the cross country trucks and cars using the main west coast artery use a bunch of surface streets through downtown Portland. These nutcases had the gall to say "Expressways are a thing of the past." Hopefully the Feds would never allow this, but with these tech nerds trying to pry my fingers off my beloved steering wheel of my car banning my favorite activity of DRIVING with their nutcase self-driving car nonsense I wouldn't be so sure. Just riding up I-57 in Iroquois County Saturday I was wondering just how comfortable I'd feel helpless in one of their gadgets trusting that the transistors would make the gentle curve ahead of me instead of driving me STRAIGHT INTO THAT ICE COVERED POND.

[silverback1065]

I doubt the Feds would like the idea of interrupting I-65 or I-70 for a surface street, or routing both around I-465.

When I lived in Portland a bunch of granola chomping, environmental wacko, anti-car hipster types were seriously talking about tearing down I-5 through central Portland and making all the cross country trucks and cars using the main west coast artery use a bunch of surface streets through downtown Portland. These nutcases had the gall to say "Expressways are a thing of the past." Hopefully the Feds would never allow this, but with these tech nerds trying to pry my fingers off my beloved steering wheel of my car banning my favorite activity of DRIVING with their nutcase self-driving car nonsense I wouldn't be so sure. Just riding up I-57 in Iroquois County Saturday I was wondering just how comfortable I'd feel helpless in one of their gadgets trusting that the transistors would make the gentle curb ahead of me instead of driving me STRAIGHT INTO THAT ICE COVERED POND.

the nutcases that propose these ideas all conveniently live downtown, and have never commuted from the burbs into downtown.  self driving cars are also garbage in bad weather. 

[silverback1065]

but bruh, mass transit

[PurdueBill]

I doubt the Feds would like the idea of interrupting I-65 or I-70 for a surface street, or routing both around I-465.  Although if they rerouted right, they could have an overlap of I-65, I-69, I-70, I-74, I-465, US 36, US 40, IN 37, and IN 67. Am I missing any?  Yep, that's a great idea!

Don't forget US 52 and US 421!

I thought they went around the north and east sides.  Would either of them overlap 70 and 74 at the same time as 65, 69, and the others?

[csw]

I doubt the Feds would like the idea of interrupting I-65 or I-70 for a surface street, or routing both around I-465.  Although if they rerouted right, they could have an overlap of I-65, I-69, I-70, I-74, I-465, US 36, US 40, IN 37, and IN 67. Am I missing any?  Yep, that's a great idea!

Don't forget US 52 and US 421!

I thought they went around the north and east sides.  Would either of them overlap 70 and 74 at the same time as 65, 69, and the others?

All of them would overlap (except I-74) between the US 52/Brookville Rd and US 40/Washington St exits.

heck, you can throw US 31 on there too.

[PurdueBill]

I doubt the Feds would like the idea of interrupting I-65 or I-70 for a surface street, or routing both around I-465.  Although if they rerouted right, they could have an overlap of I-65, I-69, I-70, I-74, I-465, US 36, US 40, IN 37, and IN 67. Am I missing any?  Yep, that's a great idea!

Don't forget US 52 and US 421!

I thought they went around the north and east sides.  Would either of them overlap 70 and 74 at the same time as 65, 69, and the others?

All of them would overlap (except I-74) between the US 52/Brookville Rd and US 40/Washington St exits.

heck, you can throw US 31 on there too.

I don't get how 65 would overlap over there if it went the logical route down the west side from current Exit 123 and exited onto itself at the 0 mile marker on 465.  65 would be on the other half of 465 from 421 and 52. Routing it onto the north side and down the east side back to the west seems out of the way and makes for an issue of what to do with 65 from Exit 129 southward instead of just south of 123.  Are you imagining routing 65 and 70 over the north end of 465 through the two-lane part at the NW corner?

[silverback1065]

The original temporary routing of 65 was around the west side

Pixel 2 XL

[PurdueBill]

The original temporary routing of 65 was around the west side

Pixel 2 XL

That's what I thought.  If 65 were to have to be rerouted because of some insane decommissioning of the roadway between the north and south splits, it would go down the west side.  Going over the north, down the east, and back to the west to exit onto itself going south would be way out of the way.  70 would also best go around the south side.

The oddity of going down the west side for 65 would be that it would have a wrong-way overlap with 69 on the south side of 465.  65 south and 69 north both traveling compass east with 36, 40, 70, 74, and 465 all being east as well, and 37 and 67 being north.  I would pay real money to see that sign assembly in all its glory, and maybe chip in to have it put up.

[silverback1065]

Indot has started placing signs to alert through traffic to bypass downtown. It shows travel times and just flat out says to not go downtown if you're through traffic

Pixel 2 XL

[tdindy88]

Well, the signs don't EXACTLY say not to go to downtown, they just warn you of the projected travel time of going through the city versus going around. And most of the time there is really no difference in either route, only during rush hour is there usually a difference that warrants going around the city and that is only if there is nothing slowing down traffic on 465.

[silverback1065]

Well, the signs don't EXACTLY say not to go to downtown, they just warn you of the projected travel time of going through the city versus going around. And most of the time there is really no difference in either route, only during rush hour is there usually a difference that warrants going around the city and that is only if there is nothing slowing down traffic on 465.

if you enter the city on 65 south, they do have a sign saying "to i-70 east dayton follow i-865" and it says it again but with 465 at 865's end.  that's the only place i've seen that. 

[PurdueBill]

The signs can tell people that but if they look it up on the spot, they will choose the faster route probably.  As of this moment, it is not only 2.7 miles shorter to stay on I-65 if you are coming from the north and going through to the south to stay on 65 through the city, but it is 3 minutes faster.  No one is going to bother getting on 465 to take more time.  At rush hour times it would make sense, but even at rush hour times I've managed to have to cross Indy coming from the east to get to the airport to pick someone up and the travel time signs showed it was appreciably faster to stay on 70 than to go around 465.  It all depends on incidents and road conditions at the particular moment.

Getting rid of the Interstates between the splits would be insanity though--there would no longer be a backup route to take if one were blocked or extremely slow.  How much can 465 handle?