News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

Michigan Notes

Started by MDOTFanFB, October 26, 2012, 08:06:31 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Flint1979

Quote from: cabiness42 on May 01, 2018, 08:53:39 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 01, 2018, 08:07:27 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 30, 2018, 10:11:57 PM
I like the idea of an I-67 along I-196 and US31 to Indianapolis.

I honestly have no idea why that wasn't included in the original Interstate highway build plans. Certainly Grand Rapids and South Bend are sizable enough cities to connect, and Indiana thought enough of the South Bend - Indianapolis connection to 4-lane it.

It's been a while since I've looked at the original plan but I believe that what is now US 131 between I-80/90 and I-96 was supposed to be I-67.
To me it would have made more sense to go with US-131 as I-67 instead of I-196. Michigan is done building 2-di's as far as I know, I-73 will never happen and I-67 mine as well be shelved as well. I'm not sure if Michigan would build another 3-di but it doesn't seem likely there either.


Flint1979

Quote from: JREwing78 on May 01, 2018, 08:07:27 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 30, 2018, 10:11:57 PM
I like the idea of an I-67 along I-196 and US31 to Indianapolis.

I honestly have no idea why that wasn't included in the original Interstate highway build plans. Certainly Grand Rapids and South Bend are sizable enough cities to connect, and Indiana thought enough of the South Bend - Indianapolis connection to 4-lane it.
Going through Kalamazoo would have been better than going along the lake.

ftballfan

Quote from: Flint1979 on May 01, 2018, 11:39:32 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 01, 2018, 08:53:39 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 01, 2018, 08:07:27 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 30, 2018, 10:11:57 PM
I like the idea of an I-67 along I-196 and US31 to Indianapolis.

I honestly have no idea why that wasn't included in the original Interstate highway build plans. Certainly Grand Rapids and South Bend are sizable enough cities to connect, and Indiana thought enough of the South Bend - Indianapolis connection to 4-lane it.

It's been a while since I've looked at the original plan but I believe that what is now US 131 between I-80/90 and I-96 was supposed to be I-67.
To me it would have made more sense to go with US-131 as I-67 instead of I-196. Michigan is done building 2-di's as far as I know, I-73 will never happen and I-67 mine as well be shelved as well. I'm not sure if Michigan would build another 3-di but it doesn't seem likely there either.
The only way I-73 will ever be signed in MI is if it uses the existing US-23 freeway from Flint to Toledo (which isn't Interstate standard in sections). In fact, I don't see Michigan ever building another mile of new freeway unless there is a MAJOR population boom somewhere.

Flint1979

Quote from: ftballfan on May 05, 2018, 09:45:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 01, 2018, 11:39:32 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 01, 2018, 08:53:39 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 01, 2018, 08:07:27 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 30, 2018, 10:11:57 PM
I like the idea of an I-67 along I-196 and US31 to Indianapolis.

I honestly have no idea why that wasn't included in the original Interstate highway build plans. Certainly Grand Rapids and South Bend are sizable enough cities to connect, and Indiana thought enough of the South Bend - Indianapolis connection to 4-lane it.

It's been a while since I've looked at the original plan but I believe that what is now US 131 between I-80/90 and I-96 was supposed to be I-67.
To me it would have made more sense to go with US-131 as I-67 instead of I-196. Michigan is done building 2-di's as far as I know, I-73 will never happen and I-67 mine as well be shelved as well. I'm not sure if Michigan would build another 3-di but it doesn't seem likely there either.
The only way I-73 will ever be signed in MI is if it uses the existing US-23 freeway from Flint to Toledo (which isn't Interstate standard in sections). In fact, I don't see Michigan ever building another mile of new freeway unless there is a MAJOR population boom somewhere.
And I don't see that happening especially considering Ohio would have to build their section as well. I'm pretty sure Michigan is done building new freeways anywhere. The only thing I could see done is finishing the gap on US-127 between Ithaca and St. Johns but at least they did increase the speed limit on that stretch to 65 mph. US-23 between Flint and the Ohio line has always annoyed me because it's only two lanes in each direction when the traffic volumes call for at least three lanes in each direction, in some places four lanes in each direction like from I-96 to US-12. That Brighton-Ann Arbor stretch is awful and the new flex lanes they have aren't going to help much.

mgk920

Quote from: Flint1979 on May 05, 2018, 10:28:53 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on May 05, 2018, 09:45:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 01, 2018, 11:39:32 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 01, 2018, 08:53:39 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 01, 2018, 08:07:27 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 30, 2018, 10:11:57 PM
I like the idea of an I-67 along I-196 and US31 to Indianapolis.

I honestly have no idea why that wasn't included in the original Interstate highway build plans. Certainly Grand Rapids and South Bend are sizable enough cities to connect, and Indiana thought enough of the South Bend - Indianapolis connection to 4-lane it.

It's been a while since I've looked at the original plan but I believe that what is now US 131 between I-80/90 and I-96 was supposed to be I-67.
To me it would have made more sense to go with US-131 as I-67 instead of I-196. Michigan is done building 2-di's as far as I know, I-73 will never happen and I-67 mine as well be shelved as well. I'm not sure if Michigan would build another 3-di but it doesn't seem likely there either.
The only way I-73 will ever be signed in MI is if it uses the existing US-23 freeway from Flint to Toledo (which isn't Interstate standard in sections). In fact, I don't see Michigan ever building another mile of new freeway unless there is a MAJOR population boom somewhere.
And I don't see that happening especially considering Ohio would have to build their section as well. I'm pretty sure Michigan is done building new freeways anywhere. The only thing I could see done is finishing the gap on US-127 between Ithaca and St. Johns but at least they did increase the speed limit on that stretch to 65 mph. US-23 between Flint and the Ohio line has always annoyed me because it's only two lanes in each direction when the traffic volumes call for at least three lanes in each direction, in some places four lanes in each direction like from I-96 to US-12. That Brighton-Ann Arbor stretch is awful and the new flex lanes they have aren't going to help much.

I guess that a US 41 bypass of Menominee is going to remain a distant dream as well....

:no:

Mike

Flint1979

Quote from: mgk920 on May 05, 2018, 11:01:34 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 05, 2018, 10:28:53 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on May 05, 2018, 09:45:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 01, 2018, 11:39:32 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 01, 2018, 08:53:39 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 01, 2018, 08:07:27 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 30, 2018, 10:11:57 PM
I like the idea of an I-67 along I-196 and US31 to Indianapolis.

I honestly have no idea why that wasn't included in the original Interstate highway build plans. Certainly Grand Rapids and South Bend are sizable enough cities to connect, and Indiana thought enough of the South Bend - Indianapolis connection to 4-lane it.

It's been a while since I've looked at the original plan but I believe that what is now US 131 between I-80/90 and I-96 was supposed to be I-67.
To me it would have made more sense to go with US-131 as I-67 instead of I-196. Michigan is done building 2-di's as far as I know, I-73 will never happen and I-67 mine as well be shelved as well. I'm not sure if Michigan would build another 3-di but it doesn't seem likely there either.
The only way I-73 will ever be signed in MI is if it uses the existing US-23 freeway from Flint to Toledo (which isn't Interstate standard in sections). In fact, I don't see Michigan ever building another mile of new freeway unless there is a MAJOR population boom somewhere.
And I don't see that happening especially considering Ohio would have to build their section as well. I'm pretty sure Michigan is done building new freeways anywhere. The only thing I could see done is finishing the gap on US-127 between Ithaca and St. Johns but at least they did increase the speed limit on that stretch to 65 mph. US-23 between Flint and the Ohio line has always annoyed me because it's only two lanes in each direction when the traffic volumes call for at least three lanes in each direction, in some places four lanes in each direction like from I-96 to US-12. That Brighton-Ann Arbor stretch is awful and the new flex lanes they have aren't going to help much.

I guess that a US 41 bypass of Menominee is going to remain a distant dream as well....

:no:

Mike
Speaking of US-41 I had always wondered why it didn't take M-35's route between Menominee and Escanaba since US highways were suppose to take the most direct route between two points. Well I found out that State Highway Department (the predecessor to today's MDOT) had long-range plans to continue US-41 directly north of US-2 at Powers on new alignment through northern Menominee and southern Marquette Counties to the Gwinn area, then northerly via the present-day M-553 corridor into Marquette. That actually makes more sense since US-41 spends a lot of time going east and west in Michigan.

ftballfan

Quote from: Flint1979 on May 05, 2018, 10:28:53 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on May 05, 2018, 09:45:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 01, 2018, 11:39:32 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 01, 2018, 08:53:39 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 01, 2018, 08:07:27 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 30, 2018, 10:11:57 PM
I like the idea of an I-67 along I-196 and US31 to Indianapolis.

I honestly have no idea why that wasn't included in the original Interstate highway build plans. Certainly Grand Rapids and South Bend are sizable enough cities to connect, and Indiana thought enough of the South Bend - Indianapolis connection to 4-lane it.

It's been a while since I've looked at the original plan but I believe that what is now US 131 between I-80/90 and I-96 was supposed to be I-67.
To me it would have made more sense to go with US-131 as I-67 instead of I-196. Michigan is done building 2-di's as far as I know, I-73 will never happen and I-67 mine as well be shelved as well. I'm not sure if Michigan would build another 3-di but it doesn't seem likely there either.
The only way I-73 will ever be signed in MI is if it uses the existing US-23 freeway from Flint to Toledo (which isn't Interstate standard in sections). In fact, I don't see Michigan ever building another mile of new freeway unless there is a MAJOR population boom somewhere.
And I don't see that happening especially considering Ohio would have to build their section as well. I'm pretty sure Michigan is done building new freeways anywhere. The only thing I could see done is finishing the gap on US-127 between Ithaca and St. Johns but at least they did increase the speed limit on that stretch to 65 mph. US-23 between Flint and the Ohio line has always annoyed me because it's only two lanes in each direction when the traffic volumes call for at least three lanes in each direction, in some places four lanes in each direction like from I-96 to US-12. That Brighton-Ann Arbor stretch is awful and the new flex lanes they have aren't going to help much.
However, I could see some existing two-lane roads upgraded to four-lane divided or five-lane undivided in fast-growing areas. There will still be a little bit of major freeway construction as MI has several portions that could use major upgrades (US-23 between M-14 (east) and I-94, the I-96/I-196 junction, I-75 and I-94 in metro Detroit)

thenetwork

^^ Actually, you should upgrade US-23 from M-14 south to M-50/Dundee.  The stretch around Milan is substandard.

Flint1979

Another thing I was thinking of with US-41 was that it could have run multiplexed with US-2 west of Powers to Iron Mountain and then use M-95 to Humboldt. I guess that would however leave Marquette without a US highway.

skluth

Quote from: mgk920 on May 05, 2018, 11:01:34 PM

I guess that a US 41 bypass of Menominee is going to remain a distant dream as well....

:no:

Mike

A US 41 bypass of Marinette and Menominee wouldn't need to be a full freeway. An upgradable expressway with interchanges at major crossings like WI 64 would be adequate.

JREwing78

Quote from: skluth on May 10, 2018, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 05, 2018, 11:01:34 PM

I guess that a US 41 bypass of Menominee is going to remain a distant dream as well....

:no:

Mike

A US 41 bypass of Marinette and Menominee wouldn't need to be a full freeway. An upgradable expressway with interchanges at major crossings like WI 64 would be adequate.

I wouldn't hold your breath for even that to happen in the next 50 years.

skluth

Quote from: JREwing78 on May 14, 2018, 12:57:21 AM
Quote from: skluth on May 10, 2018, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 05, 2018, 11:01:34 PM

I guess that a US 41 bypass of Menominee is going to remain a distant dream as well....

:no:

Mike

A US 41 bypass of Marinette and Menominee wouldn't need to be a full freeway. An upgradable expressway with interchanges at major crossings like WI 64 would be adequate.

I wouldn't hold your breath for even that to happen in the next 50 years.

Completely agree. Both states finances are a mess with new roads being a low priority and there's not that much demand for it.

The Ghostbuster

Will they at least complete the US 31 freeway between Napier Avenue and Interstate 94 within the next 50 years?

adwerkema

#263
Saw #67 and got excited :biggrin:


Then I read this  :-|


MLive Article

Flint1979

Quote from: adwerkema on May 15, 2018, 10:01:36 AM
Saw #67 and got excited :biggrin:


Then I read this  :-|


MLive article: http://www.mlive.com/expo/erry-2018/04/c1159472357261/construction_projects_coming_t.html
According to that map the gap between Napier Avenue and I-196 is filled in.

adwerkema

Quote from: Flint1979 on May 15, 2018, 11:37:53 AM
According to that map the gap between Napier Avenue and I-196 is filled in.
Perhaps that's MDOT's way of "fixing" a problem.  :-D

Flint1979

Quote from: adwerkema on May 15, 2018, 11:46:02 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 15, 2018, 11:37:53 AM
According to that map the gap between Napier Avenue and I-196 is filled in.
Perhaps that's MDOT's way of "fixing" a problem.  :-D
Lol just put it on the map and when you come to a stub end you wonder what the heck is this?

wanderer2575

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 14, 2018, 06:42:33 PM
Will they at least complete the US 31 freeway between Napier Avenue and Interstate 94 within the next 50 years?

Define "complete."  Most recent plan (unfunded and unscheduled) is to extend the freeway and turn it west to intersect with I-94 and Business I-94 (exit 33) at a new cloverleaf interchange, with C/D lanes between there and I-196/US-31 (exit 34).

Flint1979

No matter what way they go with US-31 it's going to involve demolishing several houses. Main Street picks up on the other side of I-94 as a dead end and runs back to Benton Center Road.

ftballfan

Quote from: wanderer2575 on May 18, 2018, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 14, 2018, 06:42:33 PM
Will they at least complete the US 31 freeway between Napier Avenue and Interstate 94 within the next 50 years?

Define "complete."  Most recent plan (unfunded and unscheduled) is to extend the freeway and turn it west to intersect with I-94 and Business I-94 (exit 33) at a new cloverleaf interchange, with C/D lanes between there and I-196/US-31 (exit 34).

I'm surprised MDOT doesn't just redo the Napier interchange so 31 curves into Napier west directly, with east Napier coming to a T intersecion (while redoing the I-94/Napier interchange). Traffic counts there don't really warrant the completion of the last segment of 31 freeway (the freeway 31 north of Berrien Springs has a lower AADT than its former route (M-139); however, Napier does have a slightly higher AADT than M-139 due to the local community college being off Napier between 94 and 31). Benton Harbor being in decline doesn't help matters.

Flint1979

Napier Avenue is already a four lane road with a turn lane from Blue Creek Road to I-94. It stays four lanes until it enters St. Joseph but loses it's turn lane at Union Avenue. I don't see what would be wrong with having it go to the north of Britain Avenue then swing to the west and connect to I-94 between Britain Avenue and Highland Avenue, to directly connect into exit 33 they would have to remove some buildings. I think going along Napier Avenue with a full freeway would require too many buildings to be demolished.

The best case would be to go directly north to just north of Highland Avenue but then you'd need to curve it to the east to get around the houses where Blue Creek Road curves, then curve back to the north and go directly into I-196.

wanderer2575

Quote from: wanderer2575 on May 18, 2018, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 14, 2018, 06:42:33 PM
Will they at least complete the US 31 freeway between Napier Avenue and Interstate 94 within the next 50 years?

Define "complete."  Most recent plan (unfunded and unscheduled) is to extend the freeway and turn it west to intersect with I-94 and Business I-94 (exit 33) at a new cloverleaf interchange, with C/D lanes between there and I-196/US-31 (exit 34).

I stand corrected.  In MDOT's current five-year plan 2018-2022, this appears to be scheduled for construction in 2021.  I missed it when looking earlier.

Flint1979

Sweet news. Matty Moroun no longer owns Michigan Central Station. He sold it to Ford.

wanderer2575

Not-so-sweet news:  A contractor had to tear up about a half-mile of freshly laid concrete on the I-696 rebuild in Roseville late last week after it failed to meet quality standards.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/06/19/696-concrete-construction-cement/713262002/

ixnay

As it makes its way between I-696 and M-59, I-75 behaves like the constellation Cassiopeia, making 90 degree turns as if following section lines.  What's the backstory as to that alignment?

ixnay
The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.