US-41 Interstate Conversion

[english si]

Blech. I'd rather the number 41 simply disappear between the southern 94 junction and Milwaukee. Having a designation end as part of a concurrency is just more confusing.

Why is it more confusing? So-called 'useless concurrencies' are almost always done for useful reasons - in this case, to give a N-S interstate along the N-S freeway.

And given that this is basically a change from white [41] shields to red and blue ones, it makes even more sense... It's like the A4/A104 concurrency near Paris. The A104 doesn't get south of the A4, but is concurrent with the A4 for the two junctions between the A104 'proper', and the N104 continuing the ring road south.

"Head south on the interstate" "But there's only East and West options!"

More than that, there will be a wrong-way concurrency of I-41 and I-43 on the east-west portion of I-894.

I described the status quo, where a major N-S route is signed E-W.
SEWIGuy got it.

[rickmastfan67]

Bad news, road fans. Looks like WisDOT covered up the 41s.   

But we all here know what lurks behind those green squares....

Hey, at least you got pictures of the signs without the I-41 shields being covered over.

[Molandfreak]

"Head south on the interstate" "But there's only East and West options!"

More than that, there will be a wrong-way concurrency of I-41 and I-43 on the east-west portion of I-894.

I described the status quo, where a major N-S route is signed E-W.
SEWIGuy got it.

But did anyone complain when I-39/90 was only I-90 from Madison to Rockford? That doesn't make any sense signed E-W, either.

[agentsteel53]

COUGH COUGH I-80/I-580 in the East Bay.  dies of coughing fit

gotta be the stupidest perpendicular signage out there.  it's a wrong-way multiplex, and neither way is the actual geographical way.

it was a lot better when the route was 80 (needed for continuity) and north-south CA-17.

[triplemultiplex]

That was a sweet little preview of what's coming our way.  Just a taste for now.  Like a teaser for a new movie.

Because 894 is sticking around, Wisconsin will now be home to two three-way concurrences.  With the new I-70 bridge in St. Louis soon to be done, Wisconsin will have a monopoly on such anomalies.  At least until I-69 shields start going up around the Indy beltline.  (69/74/465)

[Revive 755]

Bad news, road fans. Looks like WisDOT covered up the 41s.   

But we all here know what lurks behind those green squares....

Still just green squares as of today.

[triplemultiplex]

It had been well over a year since I've been through Green Bay to see the freeway expansion and that new 29 interchange is now very impressive.  Crews were lifting the third-to-last tub girder for the NB->WB flyover when I drove by.  The brick facing on the overpasses and support columns is somewhat reflective of a certain nearby "Arena Stadium".

I have yet to travel south of WI 172 (like, ever!) and see how that part is going first hand.  But nary a spade of earth has been turned around the I-43 interchange.  One system interchange at a time, just like Wausau.

Some of the new Michigan lefts on WI 29 west of CTH J are done.
Total waste of everyone's time.  Should just freeway convert that stretch out to WI 32 north right now and be done with it.

[FightingIrish]

Apparently WisDOT is still teasing us:





Snapped those today. 

[vtk]

Are those cardinals in Series C? Is that typical for Milwaukee area?

[DaBigE]

Are those cardinals in Series C? Is that typical for Milwaukee area?

Yes, that's Series C. That's typical for WisDOT in general for signs not on a freeway, and not just around Milwaukee.

[mgk920]

Are those cardinals in Series C? Is that typical for Milwaukee area?

Yes, that's Series C. That's typical for WisDOT in general for signs not on a freeway, and not just around Milwaukee.

There are similar signs on College Ave (WI 125) at US(I)-41 here in Appleton, too - except that they have 'US 41' shields with no room for any other signs.  They are a new thing in WI, the signs here only appeared about two years ago and they were the first that I was aware of statewide.

Mike

[Fox 11 News]

What ramps are those I-41 signs at?

[mgk920]

What ramps are those I-41 signs at?

They're at I-(41)/894/US 45 at Greenfield Ave (WI 59) in West Allis (suburban Milwaukee).

Greenfield Ave is the first interchange south of I-94 (Zoo Interchange) and is the main street that runs past the south side of State Fair Park.

Mike

[FightingIrish]

What ramps are those I-41 signs at?

They're at I-(41)/894/US 45 at Greenfield Ave (WI 59) in West Allis (suburban Milwaukee).

Greenfield Ave is the first interchange south of I-94 (Zoo Interchange) and is the main street that runs past the south side of State Fair Park.

Mike

Southwest ramp, freeway entrance (by Summit Credit Union, as shown in a photo farther up the page). Decided to actually get out of the car and walk across the bridge to snap it. It was late afternoon, however, so lighting was a bit tricky from that angle. Still there as of last night.

Greenfield Av. must be the spot where I-41 is born. And technically they could probably get away with leaving the signage, as it's already an interstate anyway.

[SEWIGuy]

What ramps are those I-41 signs at?

They're at I-(41)/894/US 45 at Greenfield Ave (WI 59) in West Allis (suburban Milwaukee).

Greenfield Ave is the first interchange south of I-94 (Zoo Interchange) and is the main street that runs past the south side of State Fair Park.

Mike

And since that entire bridge and interchange were just replaced, it made perfect since to erect the signs.

[Fox 11 News]

DOT NE region tells me that the I41 part of the sign will be covered (if not done already). Still waiting on the Congressional approval for weight limits before moving ahead.

[FightingIrish]

DOT NE region tells me that the I41 part of the sign will be covered (if not done already). Still waiting on the Congressional approval for weight limits before moving ahead.

That was bound to happen anyway. Still waiting for Senate approval on the weight limits waiver. Then a few formalities such as some public meetings, a final environmental study and whatever little i's and t's need to dotted and crossed. But it'll happen.

It does make sense to get that stuff ready on a new bridge/intersection (Greenfield Av.). There are two other bridges being rebuilt now (Cleveland Av. and Swan Blvd.), but neither will have a direct exit/entrance to US 45 (NB Swan is still connected to the Watertown Plank Rd. intersection for now).

Speaking of Watertown Plank, that will be the next big interchange project, with new ramps, underpass, etc. That will begin later this year.  I'm sure the new signs there will get the covered I-41 treatment like Greenfield did.

The section near WIS 100 is being rebuilt now with lots of new lanes, badly needed, with several enormous office/technology parks and a huge county medical complex there. But I think the commercial development there is still going to be a problem, because it is very heavily used and will get even worse with the county grounds development north of WPR. They may have to build another interchange at the new Swan Blvd. to carry the excess, since the new WPR interchange won't be enough. I've noticed that the Wisconsin Av. ramps are already outdated and being rebuilt, just five years after being put in.

[JREwing78]

Some of the new Michigan lefts on WI 29 west of CTH J are done.
Total waste of everyone's time.  Should just freeway convert that stretch out to WI 32 north right now and be done with it.

If my experience with how Michigan Lefts work in Michigan is any indicator, they should forestall the need to convert this stretch to freeway for at least a few years. Bridges are expensive; Michigan Lefts are cheap.

[triplemultiplex]

If my experience with how Michigan Lefts work in Michigan is any indicator, they should forestall the need to convert this stretch to freeway for at least a few years. Bridges are expensive; Michigan Lefts are cheap.

And U-turns into 70 mph traffic are dangerous.
I can think of a dozen things WisDOT has poured millions into that were less deserving than a freeway converted WI 29 in Brown County. <cough> Burlington bypass! <cough cough>

[Molandfreak]

If my experience with how Michigan Lefts work in Michigan is any indicator, they should forestall the need to convert this stretch to freeway for at least a few years. Bridges are expensive; Michigan Lefts are cheap.

And U-turns into 70 mph traffic are dangerous.
I can think of a dozen things WisDOT has poured millions into that were less deserving than a freeway converted WI 29 in Brown County. <cough> Burlington bypass! <cough cough>

Not to mention, are they leaving enough room in the Michigan left to U-turn, change lanes, and change lanes again for the right turn lane?

[JREwing78]

If my experience with how Michigan Lefts work in Michigan is any indicator, they should forestall the need to convert this stretch to freeway for at least a few years. Bridges are expensive; Michigan Lefts are cheap.

And U-turns into 70 mph traffic are dangerous.
I can think of a dozen things WisDOT has poured millions into that were less deserving than a freeway converted WI 29 in Brown County. <cough> Burlington bypass! <cough cough>

Not to mention, are they leaving enough room in the Michigan left to U-turn, change lanes, and change lanes again for the right turn lane?

Looks plenty adequate to me:
http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/neregion/29/docs/map-ctyuvv.pdf

Michigan has a stretch of US-127 that has a similar configuration (with a similar speed limit), except it doesn't have the left turns at the crossroad intersection. It simply has the left turns beyond the intersection. You have plenty of room to make the U-turn (they don't expect you to end up in the far left lane), and good visibility of oncoming traffic before proceeding.

Michigan has similar arrangements on a number of 55mph+ highways  (US-31 between Holland and Grand Haven, M-53 around Romeo, M-5 north of I-96/I-275/I-696), as well as on faster-flowing city streets (US-24/Telegraph Rd, M-8, M-1/Woodward Ave).

Is it a replacement for a freeway conversion? No. Will it suffice until they convert Hwy 29? Probably.

[tchafe1978]

Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.

[Big John]

^^ Their map shows WI 441 as US 441

[tchafe1978]

That's funny. I didn't catch that right away.

[Henry]

Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.

So they decided against the hidden concurrency?

^^ Their map shows WI 441 as US 441

They probably meant I-441, which has been proposed in the roadgeek circle for some time now.