US-41 Interstate Conversion

[SEWIGuy]

Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.

The cosigning is implied but not explicitly stated.  With the pics of I-41 we have seen at the Greenfield Ave bridge, there is no US-41 shield. 

[merrycilantro]

Wis 172 also shows as US 172 on there...if that makes any difference.

[mgk920]

Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.

So they decided against the hidden concurrency?

^^ Their map shows WI 441 as US 441

They probably meant I-441, which has been proposed in the roadgeek circle for some time now.

The Winnebago County part of WI 441 (the part combined with US 10) is woefully substandard, especially its bridge over Little Lake Butte des Morts.  WisDOT has firm plans to correct that, as well as upgrade the rest of the Winnebago County part of the freeway east of the bridge to six lanes, waiting on funding.

Also, regarding co-signing, to do that outside of metro Milwaukee will require WisDOT to *replace* multitudes of signs along the way - at great cost of public treasure - while doing a 'hidden' concurrency will allow them to simply overlay their existing US 41 shields with interstate ones.  Absolutely NONE of the signs along all of US(I)-41 outside of Milwaukee County, even those reeeeally big overhead BGSes that were installed on the Oshkosh Causeway just a couple of months ago, have room set aside for an additional route shield.

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

Mike

[FightingIrish]

Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.

So they decided against the hidden concurrency?

It doesn't say they will, it doesn't say they won't. As SEWIGuy pointed out, US 41 isn't marked on the Greenfield Av. interchange where I-41 is.

[tchafe1978]

I made the assumption that they would be cosigning US 41 with I-41 based on the part of the map that shows such, on the Milwaukee area inset. Of course, given the other errors on the map, that could be all wrong.

[rickmastfan67]

Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.

So they decided against the hidden concurrency?

It doesn't say they will, it doesn't say they won't. As SEWIGuy pointed out, US 41 isn't marked on the Greenfield Av. interchange where I-41 is.

For all we know, they will just put the US-41 shields on the side of the road with a I-41 shield and not put them on the BGS's.  Kinda the same way PennDOT deals with US-22/US-30 along I-376 here in Pittsburgh. In this picture on StreetView, you can see that there is no mention of US-22/US-30 on the BGS, but in the background, you can see (if you zoom in) a set of ground mounted US-22/US-30 shields with a I-376 shield.  Hopefully, Wisconsin decides to go that way in signage.

[triplemultiplex]

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)

I would advocate for the removal of I-894 at this time.  Yeah, yeah, you can argue it's still the 'bypass' route, but getting people to and from Chicago on one number is the biggest reason we're getting I-41.  So 894 is still redundant.  I hate to see it go on some level, but it is going to be a waste of space on every sign (and every map) starting next year.
"I-41 North"
"Madison"
"Fond du Lac"

Easy.

[Milwaukee, WY]

WUWM had a representative from WisDOT on their "Lake Effect" program earlier this week. She said US 41 would not be fully signed, but they would be posting reassurance shields along the entire route.

[SEWIGuy]

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)

You are confusing it with WI-119...the airport spur that was not signed until recently.  There are no signs for WI-341.  I think WI-175 should replace it but I am not sure that is happening.

[SEWIGuy]

WUWM had a representative from WisDOT on their "Lake Effect" program earlier this week. She said US 41 would not be fully signed, but they would be posting reassurance shields along the entire route.

Thank you...and hats off to rickmastfan67.

[Brandon]

Wis 172 also shows as US 172 on there...if that makes any difference.

It sure as heck doesn't seem to make any difference to WisDOT.

[mgk920]

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)

You are confusing it with WI-119...the airport spur that was not signed until recently.  There are no signs for WI-341.  I think WI-175 should replace it but I am not sure that is happening.

There is a 'TO/WI 341' sign on a surface access road by Miller Park.

Mike

[FightingIrish]

WUWM had a representative from WisDOT on their "Lake Effect" program earlier this week. She said US 41 would not be fully signed, but they would be posting reassurance shields along the entire route.

Thank you...and hats off to rickmastfan67.

Here's the audio:

http://wuwm.com/post/highway-41-could-become-interstate-2014

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)

I would advocate for the removal of I-894 at this time.  Yeah, yeah, you can argue it's still the 'bypass' route, but getting people to and from Chicago on one number is the biggest reason we're getting I-41.  So 894 is still redundant.  I hate to see it go on some level, but it is going to be a waste of space on every sign (and every map) starting next year.
"I-41 North"
"Madison"
"Fond du Lac"

Easy.

As for WIS 175 being signed to National Av (WIS 59), WisDOT seems rather vague about it. All they have said is that WIS 175 will be extended down Appleton Av, Lisbon Av, and the Stadium Freeway to the Stadium Interchange. WIS 341 runs another mile south from there to National. Perhaps anyone who plans on attending the meeting can inquire about it, or even suggest resigning it as 175.

Keeping I-894 as-is, concurrencies and all, is not the worst thing in the world. With the new I-41 addition, it will be beneficial to those using older maps, or those using old habits. I know people here get all itchy about concurrencies, but as I often say, if it makes things more convenient for the people who drive on these roads, myself included, then leave it. It's too bad the proposed Belt Freeway was never built, which was intended to be an outer belt through Waukesha County up to 41/45. But seeing how valuable that land has become for residential development, and most likely a lot of well-to-do NIMBYs, that will never happen. Besides, Milwaukee isn't much of a bypass town for people coming from Illinois and going west (to Minnesota, et. al.). Most people take I-90 for that.

Wis 172 also shows as US 172 on there...if that makes any difference.

It sure as heck doesn't seem to make any difference to WisDOT.

It's a simple mock-up map. Just because WisDOT put an illustration on a brochure doesn't make it gospel. If it were, it would also be drawn to exact scale, and I'm surprised nobody's bitching about that. Anyone with half a brain reading it knows what the hell they're referring to.

On a semi-related note, I saw a detour sign closer to Downtown Milwaukee today for a "US 57".  Let the undie twisting begin!

[rickmastfan67]

WUWM had a representative from WisDOT on their "Lake Effect" program earlier this week. She said US 41 would not be fully signed, but they would be posting reassurance shields along the entire route.

Thank you...and hats off to rickmastfan67.

He shoots, he scores. hehehe.

[triplemultiplex]

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)

You are confusing it with WI-119...the airport spur that was not signed until recently.  There are no signs for WI-341.  I think WI-175 should replace it but I am not sure that is happening.

Ah yes, that's exactly what I was thinking of.  Thank you.
It makes too much sense not to have 175 continue to National Ave.

[SEWIGuy]

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)

You are confusing it with WI-119...the airport spur that was not signed until recently.  There are no signs for WI-341.  I think WI-175 should replace it but I am not sure that is happening.

There is a 'TO/WI 341' sign on a surface access road by Miller Park.

Mike

Ah thank you. 

[JREwing78]

So I was wondering to myself, why only designate I-41 up to Green Bay. Why not continue it north to the 41/141 split (it was converted to Interstate-quality highway a few years ago)?

Who knows - this might have come up in this thread already.

So, aside from assigning inflated importance to Abrams, WI, I might have an answer for that one - the weigh station in the median with the left-hand exit and entrance? Except, wait - there's one of these on I-39/US-51, and it didn't stop them.

So now I'm back to having no idea. Anyone else want to take a stab at it?

[mgk920]

I stopped in at the Appleton Pvblic Hearing yesterday (Tuesday, 2013-09-10).

-There were lots of nice display panels with good descriptions of the reasons and 'what nexts'.

-The plan is indeed to maintain US 41 as an official numbered route for the length, with the only visible evidence of 'US 41' to be reassurance markers on the highway mainline - except in most of Milwaukee County, this to help reduce sign clutter.  One of the display panels showed how this would be handled at a generic crossroad interchange.

-IDOT is planning to install a Minnesota-style 'US 41 follow I-41' green sign right after the northbound Skokie Rd merge.  WisDOT is planning that and some other transitional signage on the southbound side in the NW Green Bay area.

-The WisDOT project planner in charge told me that she fully expects WI 341 to be replaced with WI 175 on Miller Park Way south to National Ave (WI 59).

-One of the other WisDOT guys (from the Ashwaubenon office) said that he got a memo on his desk essentially ordering that the I-41 shields on any signs that will be installed before the route becomes official be covered *before* the signs go up.       

-There are no plans for seeking I-41 '3DIs' for roadways such as the US 45 West Bend Spur, WI 441, WI 172, etc. at this time and they will leave that up to future people in charge.

-This is still all contingent on Congress following through with a weight limit 'grandfather' exemption for current US 41 north of metro Milwaukee.  It has passed the USHouse and is now in the Senate.  If it fails to become law, the deal will be off.

-Another of the panels mentioned the cost of changing the signs as being about $9M (give or take a couple of million).  This is for altering nearly 3000 signs in total.

-This will also cause 266 billboards (according to the display panels, the number given in the presentation was 186) to become non-conforming and yes, the ad companies are racing to install as many more as they can before the highway's 'promotion' takes effect so that they can all be grandfathered.

Mike

[Brandon]

-IDOT is planning to install a Minnesota-style 'US 41 follow I-41' green sign right after the northbound Skokie Rd merge.  WisDOT is planning that and some other transitional signage on the southbound side in the NW Green Bay area.

Which means that I-41 will exist for less than a mile in Illinois a la US-131 in Indiana.  Somehow I just don't see IDOT playing ball with WisDOT and extending it further (see I-39/I-43).

[SEWIGuy]

-IDOT is planning to install a Minnesota-style 'US 41 follow I-41' green sign right after the northbound Skokie Rd merge.  WisDOT is planning that and some other transitional signage on the southbound side in the NW Green Bay area.

Which means that I-41 will exist for less than a mile in Illinois a la US-131 in Indiana.  Somehow I just don't see IDOT playing ball with WisDOT and extending it further (see I-39/I-43).

Where would they extend it?  And if they don't, why would you interpret that as "not playing ball with WisDOT?"

And what does this have to do with I-39 and I-43?  My impression was that I-39 existed in Illinois before I-43 from Milwaukee to Beloit was approved. 

[Brandon]

-IDOT is planning to install a Minnesota-style 'US 41 follow I-41' green sign right after the northbound Skokie Rd merge.  WisDOT is planning that and some other transitional signage on the southbound side in the NW Green Bay area.

Which means that I-41 will exist for less than a mile in Illinois a la US-131 in Indiana.  Somehow I just don't see IDOT playing ball with WisDOT and extending it further (see I-39/I-43).

Where would they extend it?  And if they don't, why would you interpret that as "not playing ball with WisDOT?"

And what does this have to do with I-39 and I-43?  My impression was that I-39 existed in Illinois before I-43 from Milwaukee to Beloit was approved. 

WisDOT had wanted to extend I-43 south along what would become I-39 when they went for approval of the Beloit-Milwaukee segment.  I-43 had previous existed from Milwaukee to Green Bay.  I-39 was applied for by IDOT, after ignoring WisDOT's request, in 1988 when the maximum speed limit was increased from 55 mph to 65 mph for interstates only.

[english si]

WisDOT had wanted to extend I-43 south along what would become I-39 when they went for approval of the Beloit-Milwaukee segment.  I-43 had previous existed from Milwaukee to Green Bay.  I-39 was applied for by IDOT, after ignoring WisDOT's request, in 1988 when the maximum speed limit was increased from 55 mph to 65 mph for interstates only.

And isn't I-43 only I-43 after IL blocked extending I-57?

[SEWIGuy]

-IDOT is planning to install a Minnesota-style 'US 41 follow I-41' green sign right after the northbound Skokie Rd merge.  WisDOT is planning that and some other transitional signage on the southbound side in the NW Green Bay area.

Which means that I-41 will exist for less than a mile in Illinois a la US-131 in Indiana.  Somehow I just don't see IDOT playing ball with WisDOT and extending it further (see I-39/I-43).

Where would they extend it?  And if they don't, why would you interpret that as "not playing ball with WisDOT?"

And what does this have to do with I-39 and I-43?  My impression was that I-39 existed in Illinois before I-43 from Milwaukee to Beloit was approved. 

WisDOT had wanted to extend I-43 south along what would become I-39 when they went for approval of the Beloit-Milwaukee segment.  I-43 had previous existed from Milwaukee to Green Bay.  I-39 was applied for by IDOT, after ignoring WisDOT's request, in 1988 when the maximum speed limit was increased from 55 mph to 65 mph for interstates only.

The Illinois Highways page say that the section of I-39 between US-20 and what is now I-88 opened in 1984.  Was it not I-39 at the time?

[Brandon]

WisDOT had wanted to extend I-43 south along what would become I-39 when they went for approval of the Beloit-Milwaukee segment.  I-43 had previous existed from Milwaukee to Green Bay.  I-39 was applied for by IDOT, after ignoring WisDOT's request, in 1988 when the maximum speed limit was increased from 55 mph to 65 mph for interstates only.

And isn't I-43 only I-43 after IL blocked extending I-57?

As a matter of fact, yes.  Wisconsin wanted the I-57 number to be extended north.  Illinois, as usual, decided it knew better.

[FightingIrish]

-The WisDOT project planner in charge told me that she fully expects WI 341 to be replaced with WI 175 on Miller Park Way south to National Ave (WI 59).

And DON'T miss anything!

-One of the other WisDOT guys (from the Ashwaubenon office) said that he got a memo on his desk essentially ordering that the I-41 shields on any signs that will be installed before the route becomes official be covered *before* the signs go up.       

Hope I didn't get anyone in trouble when I posted those I-41 BGS images.