https://www.dangerousroads.org/north-america/usa/4666-california-route-36.html
According to this article it does not say exactly that CA Route 36 is the most curvy route in America, but it does say that in 140 miles the road experiences many curves. 1811 it says to be exact.
Does anyone know of other roads that could contend for the title of most winding road in US?
Tail of the Dragon and others in Appalachia come to mind. I am sure KY and WV have some contenders.
Hawaii state route 360, and the Hana Highway part of county 31 to Kalepa Gulch south of Kipahulu. At least 600 hairpin curves, and a 15mph speed limit except in the immediate Hana area plus a 25mph "speed zone" in the Keanae area. Also dozens of one-lane bridges.
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2022, 12:13:59 PM
Tail of the Dragon and others in Appalachia come to mind. I am sure KY and WV have some contenders.
US 129 gets a lot of hype, to the point that any other curvy mountainous route that's marketed as a good road for bikers and sports car drivers to try out gets a dragon-themed name. "Back of the Dragon" on VA 16 between Tazewell and Marion, "Dragon Slayer" on VA/KY 160 between Appalachia and Cumberland/Benham/Lynch, and a few routes that a Backroads of Appalachia group is promoting.
There's a four-digit state route, the number of which escapes my memory, that crosses Pine Mountain and connects KY 221 and US 119. It's nothing but curves.
US 129/The Dragon is tame compared to what's out west. US 191 on the Coronado Trail blows the doors off US 129/Dragon for sheer number of curves. US 129 gets a lot of hype given it is easy accessible to the sports bike crowd and once had a much higher speed limit. NC 28 IMO is the better drive/ride to go fast on from Deals Gap.
Regarding Hana Highway I actually found it kind of chill all things considered. The advertised about of curves Oscar stated is definitely a thing. The one lane segments aren't too bad, they are well marked with yield signs. The 15 MPH speed limit definitely isn't followed on the HI 360 segment, 25-35 MPH is more the average pace with faster traffic. My thought coming away from Hana Highway was that it was like a more narrow CA 1 in the Big Sur area and more analogous to a Sign County Route.
CA 36 has a bunch of curves between US 101 and I-5. That said, CA 36 wasn't exactly super haggard and probably has become less so since the one lane portion was expanded to two lanes. CA 299 east of CA 96 to CA 3 in my opinion was the more curvy highway segment. I want to say CA 245 has the most curves of any California State Route per mile. Worth noting CA 36 is very tame east of I-5 with a lot of straight stretches.
With Oregon I would have to imagine the Historic Columbia River Highway would be the clear winner for curves per mile. In Arizona the title likes to goes to AZ 88 for curves per miles.
That said, one that does stand out for me (not just with California) is Mineral King Road to southern extent of Sequoia National Park.
https://www.gribblenation.org/2018/09/mineral-king-roadmountain-road-375.html?m=1
My intro description for Mineral King Road says it all:
"Mineral King Road is a 24.8 mile rural highway maintained by the National Park Service and as Tulare County Mountain Road 375. Mineral King Road originates at California State Route 198 in Three Rivers near the confluence of the Middle Fork Kaweah River and the East Fork Kaweah River. Mineral King Road climbs from a starting elevation of 1,400 feet above sea level to 7,830 feet above sea level at the White Chief Mine Trailhead in Mineral King Valley. Notably Mineral King Road is stated to have 697 curves."
Some other notably curvy California roads that come to mind off the top of my head:
- CA 155 east of CA 65.
- CA 33 on the Maricopa Highway.
- CA 2 Angeles Crest
- CA 1 Cabrillo Highway in Big Sur
- CA 1 Shoreline Highway
- CA 58 west of Bakersfield
- CA 198 west of Coalinga
- CA 25
- CA 9
- CA 130
- CA 180 east of Minkler
- Generals Highway
- CA 49 in the Merced River Canyon (the Mini Dragon as it is sometimes called)
- CA 4 east of CA 207
- US 199
- Nacimiento-Ferguson Road
- The Old Ridge Route (reportedly over 800 curves as originally configured)
- Caliente-Bodfish Road
- Kaiser Pass Road
- Del Puerto Canyon Road
- CA 23 in Decker Canyon
- CA 74 (Palms to Pines Highway and Ortega Highway)
- CA 243
- CA 96
- Eastern CA 169 (the one lane part)
Quote from: hbelkins on November 15, 2022, 01:07:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2022, 12:13:59 PM
Tail of the Dragon and others in Appalachia come to mind. I am sure KY and WV have some contenders.
US 129 gets a lot of hype, to the point that any other curvy mountainous route that's marketed as a good road for bikers and sports car drivers to try out gets a dragon-themed name. "Back of the Dragon" on VA 16 between Tazewell and Marion, "Dragon Slayer" on VA/KY 160 between Appalachia and Cumberland/Benham/Lynch, and a few routes that a Backroads of Appalachia group is promoting.
There's a four-digit state route, the number of which escapes my memory, that crosses Pine Mountain and connects KY 221 and US 119. It's nothing but curves.
Detour Road east of Paw Paw was also nothing but curves. Glad I didn't meet a coal truck on it, too.
One of my favorites is AR-16 between Clinton, AR and Fayetteville, AR. You literally cannot get Google Maps to keep the route unless you add a couple of destinations/waypoints in the middle, like Deer and Boston, as there are faster routes both north and south a couple of counties. It's got to be close to one of the curviest in curves/mile and crosses more than 1/3rd of the state. Saw more deer and motorcycles than cars or trucks, and I can't recall a single semi on the route until near Fayetteville. Did some timelapse videos of the route, and it's kind of nauseating.
For Colorado, I think I'd nominate CO141.
I've heard a lot of people say that M-119 is the curviest road in Michigan but I'm honestly not sure. M-119 is the Tunnel of Trees route in the NW lower peninsula.
I wonder if there's a numeric value you could determine for this. Something involving:
* radius of curvature at centerline (smaller is better)
* number of curves (larger is better)
* length of road (normalizing factor for number of curves)
Quote from: MikieTimT on November 15, 2022, 02:12:08 PM
One of my favorites is AR-16 between Clinton, AR and Fayetteville, AR. You literally cannot get Google Maps to keep the route unless you add a couple of destinations/waypoints in the middle, like Deer and Boston, as there are faster routes both north and south a couple of counties. It's got to be close to one of the curviest in curves/mile and crosses more than 1/3rd of the state. Saw more deer and motorcycles than cars or trucks, and I can't recall a single semi on the route until near Fayetteville. Did some timelapse videos of the route, and it's kind of nauseating.
Once you get west of the pig trail, AR 16 is pretty much 55 the rest of the way. That's why it was a popular route before the advent of I-540/49.
I'll be the guy who mentions Lombard Street in SF.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 15, 2022, 08:36:47 PM
I'll be the guy who mentions Lombard Street in SF.
I'll be the guy who mentions Vermont Street has more curves.
Quote from: Road Hog on November 15, 2022, 08:06:38 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on November 15, 2022, 02:12:08 PM
One of my favorites is AR-16 between Clinton, AR and Fayetteville, AR. You literally cannot get Google Maps to keep the route unless you add a couple of destinations/waypoints in the middle, like Deer and Boston, as there are faster routes both north and south a couple of counties. It's got to be close to one of the curviest in curves/mile and crosses more than 1/3rd of the state. Saw more deer and motorcycles than cars or trucks, and I can't recall a single semi on the route until near Fayetteville. Did some timelapse videos of the route, and it's kind of nauseating.
Once you get west of the pig trail, AR 16 is pretty much 55 the rest of the way. That's why it was a popular route before the advent of I-540/49.
Yeah, it straightens out between Brashears and Fayetteville for sure. But the 133 miles between Brashears and Clinton are a biker's or sports car's dream. There's virtually no one else outside of locals, hikers, or hunters that would go that far out into the wilderness otherwise. There's literally only gas available in that stretch near the aforementioned ends, Deer, and Who DaThought It Arkansas.
I think OR 242 is probably the curviest per mile in Oregon.
The Iron Mountain Road (US 16A) of South Dakota's Black Hills is worth mentioning. The seventeen mile stretch of road features 314 curves, including three loops where the road travels over itself. This equates to nearly 18 and a half curves per mile. Source (https://www.ironmountainroad.com/)
So from what I'm reading in the thread so far the HI 360 portion of Hana Highway and Mineral King Road are leading so far with curves per mile:
HI 360/Hana Highway: 620 curves (source HDOT) in 34.4 miles for an average of 18.02 curves per mile.
Tulare County Mountain Road 375/Mineral King Road: 597 curves in 24.8 miles for an average of 24.07 curves per mile.
Reportedly US 129 has 318 curves in the 11 mile Dragon segment (28.90 per mile). Having driven US 129 over half a dozen times I tend to find that claim questionable, or at least I'm not sure what definition of a curve is being used. Hana Highway and Mineral King definitely have more direction changed versus more length sweeping curves of The Dragon.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 15, 2022, 08:36:47 PM
I'll be the guy who mentions Lombard Street in SF.
That's probably the obvious winner lol. I was thinking of mentioning it earlier.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 16, 2022, 03:17:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 15, 2022, 08:36:47 PM
I'll be the guy who mentions Lombard Street in SF.
That's probably the obvious winner lol. I was thinking of mentioning it earlier.
Problem is the rest of Lombard aside from the eastern part of Russian Hill is totally straight. Vermont Street has more curves on it's big descent and is way shorter than Lombard. Lombard isn't beating Vermont for number of curves or curves per mile in SF.
Quote from: kurumi on November 15, 2022, 07:34:43 PMI wonder if there's a numeric value you could determine for this. Something involving:
* radius of curvature at centerline (smaller is better)
* number of curves (larger is better)
* length of road (normalizing factor for number of curves)
I'd certainly want to screen the various candidates by objective criteria. The measure I personally favor is total degrees of change in bearing per unit length. For example, if a road changes bearing 30° left and then 30° right in one mile but is otherwise straight, then that is 60° per mile. To an extent this accounts for radius of curvature since curves of smaller radius waste less centerline length to change bearing over a given angle. Curve count isn't helpful since it is possible for a single mile of an almost straight road to have thousands of short curves with microscopic bearing changes.
I think the windingest road I've personally driven is NM 159 between US 180 and Mogollon. But while it is unquestionably in the 99th percentile, it is harder to defend the claim that it is number one in the country. Essentially, if the road has an operating speed of 10 MPH or less and you never stop slewing the steering wheel back and forth, it is a contender.
If you look at a map, KY 30 east of Jackson in Breathitt County between KY 15 and the Magoffin County line looks to be very, very curvy. In reality, the map looks worse than the road really is when you drive it.
US-60 between Gauley Bridge and Ansted, West Virginia has 85 curves over in a little over 9 miles.
It was wild back before I-64 was completed between Beckley and Sam Black Church, as there were several sections of truck climbing lanes on the steep grade heading east out of Gauley Bridge, many of which flipped around the hairpins. The turns were two tight for many tractor-trailers (in both directions), so you had to carefully negotiate passing by anticipating that the big rigs needed to enter the center lane to lurch around the curve. Sometimes you would slow down to allow the big rig you were wanting to pass upgrade to negotiate the next curve; sometimes you had to back way off because you just encountered a downhill big rig cutting off the curve from the other lane. There was a few times that I "threaded the needle" between the two just to scare my unsuspecting passengers.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 15, 2022, 05:19:36 PM
I've heard a lot of people say that M-119 is the curviest road in Michigan but I'm honestly not sure. M-119 is the Tunnel of Trees route in the NW lower peninsula.
It's gotta be the entrance to Four Winds Casino (Four Winds Dr.) off from Wilson Rd. This map doesn't really do it justice though.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Four+Winds+Casino+New+Buffalo/@41.7813391,-86.7199641,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x88111b70eec75cc1:0x240b0c9c7e2db05f!8m2!3d41.7813352!4d-86.7089134
Quote from: hbelkins on November 16, 2022, 09:53:24 PM
If you look at a map, KY 30 east of Jackson in Breathitt County between KY 15 and the Magoffin County line looks to be very, very curvy. In reality, the map looks worse than the road really is when you drive it.
KY 122 across Abner Mountain is a curvy ride. My grandfather used to call it their version of the Monte Carlo.
In the same vein as Vermont and Lombard Streets in SF....
there's also Cascadilla Park Road in Ithaca, NY. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4434759,-76.4923156,18z
Quote from: hbelkins on November 15, 2022, 01:07:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2022, 12:13:59 PM
Tail of the Dragon and others in Appalachia come to mind. I am sure KY and WV have some contenders.
US 129 gets a lot of hype, to the point that any other curvy mountainous route that's marketed as a good road for bikers and sports car drivers to try out gets a dragon-themed name. "Back of the Dragon" on VA 16 between Tazewell and Marion, "Dragon Slayer" on VA/KY 160 between Appalachia and Cumberland/Benham/Lynch, and a few routes that a Backroads of Appalachia group is promoting.
There's a four-digit state route, the number of which escapes my memory, that crosses Pine Mountain and connects KY 221 and US 119. It's nothing but curves.
Is it KY 1679?
Quote from: kirbykart on November 17, 2022, 04:10:26 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 15, 2022, 01:07:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2022, 12:13:59 PM
Tail of the Dragon and others in Appalachia come to mind. I am sure KY and WV have some contenders.
US 129 gets a lot of hype, to the point that any other curvy mountainous route that's marketed as a good road for bikers and sports car drivers to try out gets a dragon-themed name. "Back of the Dragon" on VA 16 between Tazewell and Marion, "Dragon Slayer" on VA/KY 160 between Appalachia and Cumberland/Benham/Lynch, and a few routes that a Backroads of Appalachia group is promoting.
There's a four-digit state route, the number of which escapes my memory, that crosses Pine Mountain and connects KY 221 and US 119. It's nothing but curves.
Is it KY 1679?
KY-1679 looks like it runs on top of the ridge. KY-2010 connects KY-221 and US-119 over the mountain.
KY-1679 has over 350 turns. It's the windiest road in Kentucky so it has got to be what you are talking about.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 17, 2022, 03:16:47 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 15, 2022, 05:19:36 PM
I've heard a lot of people say that M-119 is the curviest road in Michigan but I'm honestly not sure. M-119 is the Tunnel of Trees route in the NW lower peninsula.
It's gotta be the entrance to Four Winds Casino (Four Winds Dr.) off from Wilson Rd. This map doesn't really do it justice though.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Four+Winds+Casino+New+Buffalo/@41.7813391,-86.7199641,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x88111b70eec75cc1:0x240b0c9c7e2db05f!8m2!3d41.7813352!4d-86.7089134
I guess that's a great way to filter out people who have had a few too many at the bar before they can get out to the main road...
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 17, 2022, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 17, 2022, 03:16:47 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 15, 2022, 05:19:36 PM
I've heard a lot of people say that M-119 is the curviest road in Michigan but I'm honestly not sure. M-119 is the Tunnel of Trees route in the NW lower peninsula.
It's gotta be the entrance to Four Winds Casino (Four Winds Dr.) off from Wilson Rd. This map doesn't really do it justice though.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Four+Winds+Casino+New+Buffalo/@41.7813391,-86.7199641,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x88111b70eec75cc1:0x240b0c9c7e2db05f!8m2!3d41.7813352!4d-86.7089134
I guess that's a great way to filter out people who have had a few too many at the bar before they can get out to the main road...
Or maybe the people who designed and/or built the road had waaaaaaaay too many! :)
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 17, 2022, 06:50:06 PM
KY-1679 has over 350 turns. It's the windiest road in Kentucky so it has got to be what you are talking about.
No, not really. KY 1679 is the Little Shepherd Trail. It runs approximately 40 miles along the top of Pine Mountain between US 421 and US 119. I drove across it with my dad many years ago. It's a very narrow road and when we drove it, portions were gravel. It took us four hours to drive the 40 miles.
KY 2010 is, indeed, the route I was thinking of that crosses Pine Mountain and links KY 221 and US 119.
KY 160 is pretty crooked. It enters Kentucky from Virginia at the top of Black Mountain, drops in to the Cumberland River valley, then crosses Pine Mountain, runs along several streams, has a concurrency with KY 15, then runs solo through Hindman and across KY 80 before another mountain crossing prior to its terminus.
For California roads, I'll second Max about CA-130 and Generals Hwy in Sequoia NP. But I've always found CA-190 heading up into the mountains from Springville to Cedar Slope to be just as stressful as Generals. Zoomed way out, it looks straighter, but zoomed in, you can see how insanely curvy it is. It's a real workout for your tires and your arms.
There's also San Diego's South Grade Road, part of CR-S6, which goes up to Palomar Mountain, although it's not very long. Further west is Nate Harrison Grade, which also goes up to the same ridge, but which is far less maintained.
And don't forget CA-39 going up to Crystal Lake Campground.
All worth driving, if you haven't...
Washington's State Route 21 (https://goo.gl/maps/F9wqv7wGDG1tzhqw7) has a fun set of switchbacks and curves leading up to the Keller Ferry.
This multistate section (https://goo.gl/maps/7C8pBqKvF22HCNsP6) of Oregon 3 and Washington 129 is also very very curvy.
A certain thread on the Fictional Highways board would seem to suggest a certain "special" poster thinks the Pennsylvania Turnpike takes the title.
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 23, 2022, 07:48:01 AM
A certain thread on the Fictional Highways board would seem to suggest a certain "special" poster thinks the Pennsylvania Turnpike takes the title.
Dude didn't even realize some DOTs maintain one lane State Highways.
I was wrong about KY 1679. The Little Shepherd Trail was turned over from state maintenance to Letcher County east of the final Letcher-Harlan crossing. The road hugs the county line for a decent distance. The Harlan County segment is still a state highway.
According to country artist Eric Church, it's Roosevelt Road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocIda7QHH2k
She shakes, she shimmies like Elvis singing "All Shook Up."
Quote from: Road Hog on December 02, 2022, 08:25:31 PM
According to country artist Eric Church, it's Roosevelt Road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocIda7QHH2k
She shakes, she shimmies like Elvis singing "All Shook Up."
Whoa, that threw me off. I thought it said "Epic Church". Which is less than 2½ miles from my house. And would seemingly have nothing at all to say about which road is the most winding.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on November 16, 2022, 11:05:43 PM
US-60 between Gauley Bridge and Ansted, West Virginia has 85 curves over in a little over 9 miles.
It was wild back before I-64 was completed between Beckley and Sam Black Church, as there were several sections of truck climbing lanes on the steep grade heading east out of Gauley Bridge, many of which flipped around the hairpins. The turns were two tight for many tractor-trailers (in both directions), so you had to carefully negotiate passing by anticipating that the big rigs needed to enter the center lane to lurch around the curve. Sometimes you would slow down to allow the big rig you were wanting to pass upgrade to negotiate the next curve; sometimes you had to back way off because you just encountered a downhill big rig cutting off the curve from the other lane. There was a few times that I "threaded the needle" between the two just to scare my unsuspecting passengers.
Three other contenders for curvy routes in WV:
- WV 3 between Pickaway and Alderson in Monroe County
- WV 61 between Deep Water and Kincaid in Fayette County
- WV 16 between Welch and Coalwood
There are some other routes with curvy alignments (lots of WV 10 and WV 97 for example) but you can generally maintain at least maintain at least 40mph through most curves. On these routes, you have to slow down significantly for most or all of them.
For Virginia, in addition to the mentions of VA 16 and VA 160, I'd also mention:
- US 220 near Falling Springs, north of Covington
- mountain crossings on US 250 between Staunton and the WV line, which are especially not fun to drive at night
Massachusetts doesn't have many winding roads. I can't think of any more windy than MA 2 west of Greenfield.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 05, 2022, 04:19:31 PM
Massachusetts doesn't have many winding roads.
Maybe there aren't many candidates for the most winding in the country, but pretty much
every road in Massachusetts is winding compared to the Midwest/Great Plains.
Quote from: webny99 on December 05, 2022, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 05, 2022, 04:19:31 PM
Massachusetts doesn't have many winding roads.
Maybe there aren't many candidates for the most winding in the country, but pretty much every road in Massachusetts is winding compared to the Midwest/Great Plains.
I know, I'm more talking about compared to mountain ranges like the Rockies.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 05, 2022, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 05, 2022, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 05, 2022, 04:19:31 PM
Massachusetts doesn't have many winding roads.
Maybe there aren't many candidates for the most winding in the country, but pretty much every road in Massachusetts is winding compared to the Midwest/Great Plains.
I know, I'm more talking about compared to mountain ranges like the Rockies.
The Rockies aren't as winding as you might think them to be. The range substantially eroded compared to what lies west of it.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 05, 2022, 04:19:31 PM
Massachusetts doesn't have many winding roads. I can't think of any more windy than MA 2 west of Greenfield.
O ye of little experience.
I would go with the roads up Mount Sugarloaf or Mount Greylock.
Quote from: Rothman on December 05, 2022, 06:55:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 05, 2022, 04:19:31 PM
Massachusetts doesn't have many winding roads. I can't think of any more windy than MA 2 west of Greenfield.
O ye of little experience.
I would go with the roads up Mount Sugarloaf or Mount Greylock.
I've actually been to both :ded:. Although I don't really recall the roads being super windy on either.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 06, 2022, 12:07:07 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 05, 2022, 06:55:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 05, 2022, 04:19:31 PM
Massachusetts doesn't have many winding roads. I can't think of any more windy than MA 2 west of Greenfield.
O ye of little experience.
I would go with the roads up Mount Sugarloaf or Mount Greylock.
I've actually been to both :ded:. Although I don't really recall the roads being super windy on either.
They're both windier than MA 2, which has the single hairpin turn.
Come to think of it, Mount Holyoke also comes to mind.
MN doesn't have much for this. TH 1 from Ely to TH 61 has some windy segments but some straight hilly ones too. The road up Palisade Head is pretty windy, but it's a short park road.
What is the most windy road in Illinois :-D
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 06, 2022, 09:51:43 PM
What is the most windy road in Illinois
Probably somewhere in the windy city. :-P
Quote from: webny99 on December 06, 2022, 09:56:45 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 06, 2022, 09:51:43 PM
What is the most windy road in Illinois
Probably somewhere in the windy city. :-P
Which got their nickname from the politicians, not the weather.
Quote from: webny99 on December 06, 2022, 09:56:45 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 06, 2022, 09:51:43 PM
What is the most windy road in Illinois
Probably somewhere in the windy city. :-P
Don't you guys watch Carhorn's videos? Everyone knows Illinois Pass Highway is by FAR the most winding road in the United States.
Quote from: Big John on December 06, 2022, 10:06:59 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 06, 2022, 09:56:45 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 06, 2022, 09:51:43 PM
What is the most windy road in Illinois
Probably somewhere in the windy city. :-P
Which got their nickname from the politicians, not the weather.
Perhaps the real windiest road will be found by following the nickname's history.
There are plenty of hilly roads in Illinois (as we all know, Illinois isn't flat), but I'm not sure I could name a single one that should be described as "winding".
Even something like this (https://goo.gl/maps/1W9Nw2ADLSdjx7RG6) isn't all that winding.