Michigan Notes

[JREwing78]

What's the highest speed someone has blown past a state trooper without getting pulled over? I'm always driving 80mph in a 70 and drove by atleast 7 michigan cops now without a problem. I know they acknowledged that everyone is driving 80mph anyway back when they increased some highways to 75mph, which was supposed to be 80mph.

MSP generally doesn't bother until 11 over. But if they're going to the trouble of pulling you over, they're generally going to write you a ticket.

Also note that your car speedometer may not be perfectly accurate, and you may be driving 7 or 8 over. Or you're doing 12 over and you just got lucky.

County sheriff deputies and municipal police also patrol the freeways and may not follow MSP standard operating practice.

I keep my cruise set to 8 over and they don't bother me.

SM-G991U

[JREwing78]

What's the highest speed someone has blown past a state trooper without getting pulled over?

I *have* done 85 in a 70 and had MSP *try* to pull me over. It was just before an exit where the road went downhill out of sight of the officer. I took the exit. The trooper didn't. My driving record didn't get more points on it that day.



SM-G991U

[Flint1979]

I was doing 85 in a 70 zone going SB on I-75 and noticed a state trooper slowing down on the NB side to turn around so I thought he would have been after me which he probably was but I noticed a long line of traffic at exit 93 and went up the shoulder of the ramp made a right on Dixie and saw the cop fly by going SB on I-75. I thought welp I'm not getting back on the highway for a minute. I noticed a Farmer Jack (that's how long ago this was) went in there and acted like I was grocery shopping for a minute then left and took another route to get back to I-75 I can't remember off the top of my head which way I went though.

[webny99]

Double-barreled action on I-75 around mile marker 166.

Is that unusual in Michigan? It's very common here. I can think of at least two median U-turn locations where two cops is as common as just one. I just figure it's a slow day and they're taking the chance to chat with their co-workers.

What's the highest speed someone has blown past a state trooper without getting pulled over?

I *have* done 85 in a 70 and had MSP *try* to pull me over. It was just before an exit where the road went downhill out of sight of the officer. I took the exit. The trooper didn't. My driving record didn't get more points on it that day.

Lucky! I was in a similar situation on NY 104 once, definitely speeding but don't remember my speed. I saw the cop pull out behind me, but far enough back that I wasn't sure if he was after me or not. I sure didn't bother to find out, and bailed at the next exit as soon as I got around the bend and out of his view. I turned right ASAP and wound my way back to the highway on backroads just to be sure. A hair raising experience to be sure.

[vdeane]

What's the highest speed someone has blown past a state trooper without getting pulled over?

I *have* done 85 in a 70 and had MSP *try* to pull me over. It was just before an exit where the road went downhill out of sight of the officer. I took the exit. The trooper didn't. My driving record didn't get more points on it that day.

Lucky! I was in a similar situation on NY 104 once, definitely speeding but don't remember my speed. I saw the cop pull out behind me, but far enough back that I wasn't sure if he was after me or not. I sure didn't bother to find out, and bailed at the next exit as soon as I got around the bend and out of his view. I turned right ASAP and wound my way back to the highway on backroads just to be sure. A hair raising experience to be sure.

Driving sure seems simpler staying within 10 mph of the speed limit.  Now if only the northeast would raise its speed limits so I could go exactly the speed limit (without substantially affecting my travel time) and make it simpler still; while most places won't pull you over for 5-7 over, some do, and that's even more common with cameras.

[Rothman]

What's the highest speed someone has blown past a state trooper without getting pulled over?

I *have* done 85 in a 70 and had MSP *try* to pull me over. It was just before an exit where the road went downhill out of sight of the officer. I took the exit. The trooper didn't. My driving record didn't get more points on it that day.

Lucky! I was in a similar situation on NY 104 once, definitely speeding but don't remember my speed. I saw the cop pull out behind me, but far enough back that I wasn't sure if he was after me or not. I sure didn't bother to find out, and bailed at the next exit as soon as I got around the bend and out of his view. I turned right ASAP and wound my way back to the highway on backroads just to be sure. A hair raising experience to be sure.

Driving sure seems simpler staying within 10 mph of the speed limit.  Now if only the northeast would raise its speed limits so I could go exactly the speed limit (without substantially affecting my travel time) and make it simpler still; while most places won't pull you over for 5-7 over, some do, and that's even more common with cameras.

They raise the speed limit, people will go 10+ over that...hence the biggest reason why the speed limits are kept low up here.

[Flint1979]

Double-barreled action on I-75 around mile marker 166.

Is that unusual in Michigan? It's very common here. I can think of at least two median U-turn locations where two cops is as common as just one. I just figure it's a slow day and they're taking the chance to chat with their co-workers.

I've seen it before but usually it seems like there is just one car sitting there whenever they are sitting somewhere. But two isn't really uncommon I don't think.

[vdeane]

They raise the speed limit, people will go 10+ over that...hence the biggest reason why the speed limits are kept low up here.

That feels like something "everyone knows" that isn't actually true.  Wish there was some education to get rid of that misconception.  There have been studies all over the place where states have raised their speed limits proving that this isn't the case, yet citizens and lawmakers ignore them.

In any case, with the rise of camera enforcement and the like, if we don't get a 70 mph speed limit in NY, I'll likely soon be forced to choose between risking tickets or every major trip taking 30-60 minutes longer than present.  Memorizing camera locations, enforcement tolerances, etc. and having to behave differently in every place even when the posted speed limit is the same is not a game that I want to play.

[Rothman]

They raise the speed limit, people will go 10+ over that...hence the biggest reason why the speed limits are kept low up here.

That feels like something "everyone knows" that isn't actually true.  Wish there was some education to get rid of that misconception.  There have been studies all over the place where states have raised their speed limits proving that this isn't the case, yet citizens and lawmakers ignore them.

In any case, with the rise of camera enforcement and the like, if we don't get a 70 mph speed limit in NY, I'll likely soon be forced to choose between risking tickets or every major trip taking 30-60 minutes longer than present.  Memorizing camera locations, enforcement tolerances, etc. and having to behave differently in every place even when the posted speed limit is the same is not a game that I want to play.

I don't know.  I'd think the speed limit would have to be raised pretty high to lessen the "buffer effect" up here.

On my eclipse trip, I was taken aback by how slowly Texans drive -- at least where I was in San Antonio and the adjacent Hill Country.  Seemed to me there was more of a compliance with the speed limit compared to the Thruway, where 80 mph+ in a 65 mph zone is common in the left lane.

Camera speed enforcement in NY is posted and signed.  In my personal opinion, I believe there is a buffer of sorts even with them.

Anyway, speeding anywhere has a risk of a ticket, I suppose.  But, I have found that a combination of not speeding too much (<15 mph over) and keeping one's eyes peeled for enforcement is effective.

Haven't got a ticket in over a decade now and I'm driving more than ever.

[webny99]

Driving sure seems simpler staying within 10 mph of the speed limit.  Now if only the northeast would raise its speed limits so I could go exactly the speed limit (without substantially affecting my travel time) and make it simpler still; while most places won't pull you over for 5-7 over, some do, and that's even more common with cameras.

I would extend that to 15 over on freeways. The risk of getting pulled over for 10-14 over in a 55 or 65 mph zone in NY is pretty low, especially because you usually won't be the fastest one on the road, you can slow down to 10 over almost instantly, and might not even be going as fast to begin with depending on your speedometer error. 15-19 over is what I think of as the calculated risk zone, meaning I wouldn't typically drive this fast on a road trip nor set the cruise in this range, but am comfortable with it intermittently on local highways. And 20+ over is the true danger zone due to standing out from other traffic, 6 points on your license if ticketed, and mandatory $300 fine.

Surface streets are trickier. There are some where I speed 10-14 over quite regularly, and others where that feels too fast (or where traffic rarely/never allows for it anyways).

[webny99]

On my eclipse trip, I was taken aback by how slowly Texans drive -- at least where I was in San Antonio and the adjacent Hill Country.  Seemed to me there was more of a compliance with the speed limit compared to the Thruway, where 80 mph+ in a 65 mph zone is common in the left lane.

I agree relative to the speed limit, but the limits are also higher, so faster traffic still moves at ~80 mph and the overall flow is about as good or better (though I-10 north/west of SA can be a slog).

[michiganguy123]

What's the highest speed someone has blown past a state trooper without getting pulled over?

I *have* done 85 in a 70 and had MSP *try* to pull me over. It was just before an exit where the road went downhill out of sight of the officer. I took the exit. The trooper didn't. My driving record didn't get more points on it that day.

Lucky! I was in a similar situation on NY 104 once, definitely speeding but don't remember my speed. I saw the cop pull out behind me, but far enough back that I wasn't sure if he was after me or not. I sure didn't bother to find out, and bailed at the next exit as soon as I got around the bend and out of his view. I turned right ASAP and wound my way back to the highway on backroads just to be sure. A hair raising experience to be sure.

Driving sure seems simpler staying within 10 mph of the speed limit.  Now if only the northeast would raise its speed limits so I could go exactly the speed limit (without substantially affecting my travel time) and make it simpler still; while most places won't pull you over for 5-7 over, some do, and that's even more common with cameras.

They raise the speed limit, people will go 10+ over that...hence the biggest reason why the speed limits are kept low up here.

When Michigan increased speed limits to 75mph in the rural areas, most people still only do 80mph. The speed limits were supposed to be set to 80mph because everyone is driving that speed already but was changed in order for the bill to be passed.
80mph is like the perfect speed for a freeway, any higher and fuel efficiency greatly decreases. Speeds are pretty much the same on the 70 and 75mph sections, both speed limits, the normal flow is 80mph

[michiganguy123]

Driving sure seems simpler staying within 10 mph of the speed limit.  Now if only the northeast would raise its speed limits so I could go exactly the speed limit (without substantially affecting my travel time) and make it simpler still; while most places won't pull you over for 5-7 over, some do, and that's even more common with cameras.

I would extend that to 15 over on freeways. The risk of getting pulled over for 10-14 over in a 55 or 65 mph zone in NY is pretty low, especially because you usually won't be the fastest one on the road, you can slow down to 10 over almost instantly, and might not even be going as fast to begin with depending on your speedometer error. 15-19 over is what I think of as the calculated risk zone, meaning I wouldn't typically drive this fast on a road trip nor set the cruise in this range, but am comfortable with it intermittently on local highways. And 20+ over is the true danger zone due to standing out from other traffic, 6 points on your license if ticketed, and mandatory $300 fine.

Surface streets are trickier. There are some where I speed 10-14 over quite regularly, and others where that feels too fast (or where traffic rarely/never allows for it anyways).

Freeway speed limits shouldn't even be that low in the first place

[Rothman]

What's the highest speed someone has blown past a state trooper without getting pulled over?

I *have* done 85 in a 70 and had MSP *try* to pull me over. It was just before an exit where the road went downhill out of sight of the officer. I took the exit. The trooper didn't. My driving record didn't get more points on it that day.

Lucky! I was in a similar situation on NY 104 once, definitely speeding but don't remember my speed. I saw the cop pull out behind me, but far enough back that I wasn't sure if he was after me or not. I sure didn't bother to find out, and bailed at the next exit as soon as I got around the bend and out of his view. I turned right ASAP and wound my way back to the highway on backroads just to be sure. A hair raising experience to be sure.

Driving sure seems simpler staying within 10 mph of the speed limit.  Now if only the northeast would raise its speed limits so I could go exactly the speed limit (without substantially affecting my travel time) and make it simpler still; while most places won't pull you over for 5-7 over, some do, and that's even more common with cameras.

They raise the speed limit, people will go 10+ over that...hence the biggest reason why the speed limits are kept low up here.

When Michigan increased speed limits to 75mph in the rural areas, most people still only do 80mph. The speed limits were supposed to be set to 80mph because everyone is driving that speed already but was changed in order for the bill to be passed.
80mph is like the perfect speed for a freeway, any higher and fuel efficiency greatly decreases. Speeds are pretty much the same on the 70 and 75mph sections, both speed limits, the normal flow is 80mph

I agree with the 80mph speed being perfect, but Michiganders are silly.  

Have to say that the higher speeds I hit do take a toll on my mileage.  I do wonder what the magic speed is where you get somewhere faster without incurring additional gas stops.

[vdeane]

Driving sure seems simpler staying within 10 mph of the speed limit.  Now if only the northeast would raise its speed limits so I could go exactly the speed limit (without substantially affecting my travel time) and make it simpler still; while most places won't pull you over for 5-7 over, some do, and that's even more common with cameras.

I would extend that to 15 over on freeways. The risk of getting pulled over for 10-14 over in a 55 or 65 mph zone in NY is pretty low, especially because you usually won't be the fastest one on the road, you can slow down to 10 over almost instantly, and might not even be going as fast to begin with depending on your speedometer error. 15-19 over is what I think of as the calculated risk zone, meaning I wouldn't typically drive this fast on a road trip nor set the cruise in this range, but am comfortable with it intermittently on local highways. And 20+ over is the true danger zone due to standing out from other traffic, 6 points on your license if ticketed, and mandatory $300 fine.

Surface streets are trickier. There are some where I speed 10-14 over quite regularly, and others where that feels too fast (or where traffic rarely/never allows for it anyways).

If I were to do it, I'd raise the speed limit on the Thruway to 70 (or even 75) but keep the enforcement threshold exactly the same (around 80).  The tolerance should be for ensuring that speedometer and radar calibration errors don't result in a ticket, not a cushion for people who want to speed - but that should be done after the limit is raised to something reasonable, not before.

I don't know.  I'd think the speed limit would have to be raised pretty high to lessen the "buffer effect" up here.

On my eclipse trip, I was taken aback by how slowly Texans drive -- at least where I was in San Antonio and the adjacent Hill Country.  Seemed to me there was more of a compliance with the speed limit compared to the Thruway, where 80 mph+ in a 65 mph zone is common in the left lane.

Camera speed enforcement in NY is posted and signed.  In my personal opinion, I believe there is a buffer of sorts even with them.

Anyway, speeding anywhere has a risk of a ticket, I suppose.  But, I have found that a combination of not speeding too much (<15 mph over) and keeping one's eyes peeled for enforcement is effective.

Haven't got a ticket in over a decade now and I'm driving more than ever.

Sure, NY's work zone speed cameras are signed.  NYC's "school zone" cameras aren't.  Nor are many in other jurisdictions, at least not as precisely as the NY work zone ones.  Take this one in Iowa, which I happen to know about only because I happened to be poking around in street view (I didn't even know Iowa had speed cameras until I did!).  No signage, and from what I've read, no tolerance either.  Already my "5 over on surface roads, 7 over on freeways and some divided highways" has carve-outs for Emporia, VA; Hopewell Junction, VA; Washington, DC; Roosevelt Boulevard (US 1) in Philadelphia; and Québec (from what I've heard, their cameras photo everyone going any amount over the limit and from their it's at the discretion of the police officer reviewing the photos, and that they have less tolerance with the cameras than in person).  I hate having carve-outs, and like I said, keeping track of how different jurisdictions handle these matters isn't a game I want to play.  But changing the policy to "just go the limit exactly" would make my drive between Rochester and Albany close to half an hour longer, and reduce the amount I could travel in a day for longer trips by about 60 miles.

When Michigan increased speed limits to 75mph in the rural areas, most people still only do 80mph. The speed limits were supposed to be set to 80mph because everyone is driving that speed already but was changed in order for the bill to be passed.
80mph is like the perfect speed for a freeway, any higher and fuel efficiency greatly decreases. Speeds are pretty much the same on the 70 and 75mph sections, both speed limits, the normal flow is 80mph

Exactly.

[JREwing78]

Michigan's speed limits tend to be set pretty aggressively, so I tend not to speed around town. Thank the State Police for that; they require a speed study be performed when setting speed limits, and they run 5-10 mph higher than similar roadways in other states.

SM-G991U

[michiganguy123]

Michigan's speed limits tend to be set pretty aggressively, so I tend not to speed around town. Thank the State Police for that; they require a speed study be performed when setting speed limits, and they run 5-10 mph higher than similar roadways in other states.

SM-G991U

50mph 5 lane commercial roads seem crazy (think 28th st in Grand Rapids, 50mph with like 20-30 thousand cars a day, extremely busy road with many driveways and lots of left turns at stop signs..), but rural roads are stuck at 55mph in the middle of nowhere with only like 100 cars a day... I wish we could be like Texas and have 75mph 2 lane roads in the middle of nowhere, and I would be fine with lowering those crazy commercial strips. Is there a way to propose the state to set some more rural highways to 65mph? Lots more highways could be increased than what they included in the bill from 2017.

[JREwing78]

Is there a way to propose the state to set some more rural highways to 65mph? Lots more highways could be increased than what they included in the bill from 2017.

Leaning on your state representative and senator is a good place to start, particularly if they're a member from Up North or Da U.P., eh! Building a coalition to lobby said legislators is another good step.

What you're up against, however, are folks who have heavy-hitting lobbyists at hand (large insurers, environmentalists, and so on) who are disinterested in raising speed limits due to the safety implications. The original 2017 legislation that opened up the higher speed limits didn't allow said limits to be expanded to other roadways, so you have to go back to the legislature to fix that issue.

I also suspect Gov. Whitmer isn't in a hurry to approve higher speed limits, but who knows. She might surprise us.

I would be fine with a speed limit boost on those state highways that met certain design standards:

• no stoplights/roundabouts (can drop speed limit to 55 mph 1/2 mile from signals/roundabouts)
• 12 foot travel lanes with 10-foot shoulders (min 3' paved)
• rumble strips both along the centerline and on shoulders
• minimum sight distance, both straight ahead and through curves
• limit side-road/driveway approaches to no more than 20 per mile
• minimum amount of mowed grassy runoff area, or guardrails where sufficient runoff is impractical

I would identify M-123 north of M-28 as being ineligible for a 65 mph speed limit, for example, due to lack of shoulder width and clear runoff area (though apparently it was sufficient for MDOT's purposes in 2017). However, M-26, M-38, US-41 (excepting obvious areas like through Baraga and L'anse, Champion, etc), and US-141 are capable. Ditto the existing sections of US-2 in rural areas between Iron River and Escanaba not yet posted for 65, M-94, and M-35 south of Gwinn.

I would be less enthusiastic about pushing for higher speed limits south of US-10. Some highways, like M-60 east of M-40 or M-52 are built to high enough standards to pull it off. Others, like M-43 in Barry County, are too narrow and have poor sight distance. Others are simply not rural enough to qualify (too many homes/driveways, too many cross-streets, etc).

I would consider 4-lane divided highways for the upgrade given sufficient safety measures were in place. US-127 between Ithaca and St. Johns is a good example (no stoplights, limited side-road/driveway access, limited cross-traffic).

What I'm looking for are areas where a higher speed limit is unlikely to result in massive increases in accidents. Otherwise it would spark an outcry that would result in speed limits being slashed back down. That does no good for anyone.

[michiganguy123]

Is there a way to propose the state to set some more rural highways to 65mph? Lots more highways could be increased than what they included in the bill from 2017.

Leaning on your state representative and senator is a good place to start, particularly if they're a member from Up North or Da U.P., eh! Building a coalition to lobby said legislators is another good step.

What you're up against, however, are folks who have heavy-hitting lobbyists at hand (large insurers, environmentalists, and so on) who are disinterested in raising speed limits due to the safety implications. The original 2017 legislation that opened up the higher speed limits didn't allow said limits to be expanded to other roadways, so you have to go back to the legislature to fix that issue.

I also suspect Gov. Whitmer isn't in a hurry to approve higher speed limits, but who knows. She might surprise us.

I would be fine with a speed limit boost on those state highways that met certain design standards:

• no stoplights/roundabouts (can drop speed limit to 55 mph 1/2 mile from signals/roundabouts)
• 12 foot travel lanes with 10-foot shoulders (min 3' paved)
• rumble strips both along the centerline and on shoulders
• minimum sight distance, both straight ahead and through curves
• limit side-road/driveway approaches to no more than 20 per mile
• minimum amount of mowed grassy runoff area, or guardrails where sufficient runoff is impractical

I would identify M-123 north of M-28 as being ineligible for a 65 mph speed limit, for example, due to lack of shoulder width and clear runoff area (though apparently it was sufficient for MDOT's purposes in 2017). However, M-26, M-38, US-41 (excepting obvious areas like through Baraga and L'anse, Champion, etc), and US-141 are capable. Ditto the existing sections of US-2 in rural areas between Iron River and Escanaba not yet posted for 65, M-94, and M-35 south of Gwinn.

I would be less enthusiastic about pushing for higher speed limits south of US-10. Some highways, like M-60 east of M-40 or M-52 are built to high enough standards to pull it off. Others, like M-43 in Barry County, are too narrow and have poor sight distance. Others are simply not rural enough to qualify (too many homes/driveways, too many cross-streets, etc).

I would consider 4-lane divided highways for the upgrade given sufficient safety measures were in place. US-127 between Ithaca and St. Johns is a good example (no stoplights, limited side-road/driveway access, limited cross-traffic).

What I'm looking for are areas where a higher speed limit is unlikely to result in massive increases in accidents. Otherwise it would spark an outcry that would result in speed limits being slashed back down. That does no good for anyone.

There's still definitely some highways south of US-10 that could be included in a newer bill, M-20 from New Era to US-131 is a good example, when we were doing a trip up north that was so boring to drive all the way, it's a very straight highway with few curves and 2 towns, and less than 5000 vehicles per day. I've also driven the entirety of 2-lane US-10 and would probably be fine for 65mph (ending at Scottville), although there are more towns, and MDOT doesn't seem to like to increase the speed limit of highways that go anywhere near towns... The entire thumb region could be 65mph too, but was ignored in 2017.

Really all they have to do is look at their own aadt map and increase the speed limit on all the yellow/tan highways (under 5000-6000AADT which seems to be the limit they used for 65mph)

I feel like the only reason they skipped many highways that would be fine was because there was a set limit of mileage in the bill they couldn't go over.