AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21  (Read 4773 times)

roadwaywiz95

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 230
  • :l

  • Age: 34
  • Location: New York
  • Last Login: Today at 08:32:19 PM
    • roadwaywiz
Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« on: November 06, 2021, 11:57:55 AM »

The Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet took place on Saturday, October 30, 2021 and was hosted by Dan Murphy. Attendees met at 3 PM ET at the Home Depot parking lot in Hawthorne, NY for briefing/carpooling purposes. Attendees were treated to a site tour (given by the Meet host) of the ongoing Route 100C (over Route 9A) overpass replacement project in the town of Greenburgh. (Project No. D263671 in the NYSDOT system) A general discussion of the project scope, progress, schedule, and challenges accompanied the walking tour.

Attendees for the meet were: Dan M (host), Steve A, Erica P, "Corco", Josh S, Anthony C

Photos of this event, including an unofficial "Meet Photo" are floating around in the vastness of Facebook for those who wish to seek them out.

For the post-meet activity, the above members were joined by Doug K and Bill A at "roadwaywiz HQ" in Fishkill, NY as all attendees served as panelists for the Virtual Tour episode recorded *live* that evening. A link to the stream (that was executed to perfection if I may say so...) is available at the link below:

Logged
@roadwaywiz on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram
Clinched Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/roadwaywiz.gif
Clinched Interstates & Other Highways: https://travelmapping.net/shields/clinched.php?units=miles&u=roadwaywiz

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11279
  • Last Login: Today at 09:20:00 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2021, 04:02:07 PM »

Was this one announced on the forum?
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

vdeane

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13457
  • Age: 31
  • Location: NY's Capital District
  • Last Login: Today at 08:59:16 PM
    • New York State Roads
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2021, 09:00:26 PM »

Was this one announced on the forum?
I don't believe so.  My impression is that it was basically a tour given by roadwaywiz of a job site for his panel on the I-5 virtual tour video.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11279
  • Last Login: Today at 09:20:00 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2021, 10:51:49 PM »

I dunno.  It's not really a meet if it's not open to members of the forum.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Alps

  • y u m
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15326
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 39
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 10:24:27 PM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2021, 01:45:42 AM »

I dunno.  It's not really a meet if it's not open to members of the forum.
We've had invitational meets.

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11279
  • Last Login: Today at 09:20:00 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2021, 08:12:11 AM »

I dunno.  It's not really a meet if it's not open to members of the forum.
We've had invitational meets.
Yeah, I'm not being the most eloquent here.

Just wondering how "invitational meets" or even just a few friends just getting together should be presented on the forum to prevent the perception of cliques or tiers of forum participants (I suppose just FOMO... :D).
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

A.J. Bertin

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 996
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Grand Rapids, MI
  • Last Login: Today at 09:06:18 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2021, 04:46:35 PM »

Just wondering how "invitational meets" or even just a few friends just getting together should be presented on the forum to prevent the perception of cliques or tiers of forum participants (I suppose just FOMO... :D).

I don't have any issue with the idea of invitational meets, in theory.  Close friends can invite each other to hang out and do whatever they want, and they can exclude whomever they wish to exclude.  I agree with your thought process; I'm not sure what the point is in sharing it with everyone on this forum after the fact.  All it seems to do is emphasize that there are exclusive cliques in the roadgeek community... and for any folks who would have been interested in attending, it rubs it in their faces that they weren't invited.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 04:48:53 PM by A.J. Bertin »
Logged
-A.J. from Michigan

SSOWorld

  • 'Sconsin
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3996
  • Interstate <Make up your mind!>

  • Age: 49
  • Location: MAH House!
  • Last Login: Today at 10:43:35 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2021, 06:15:37 PM »

Was this one announced on the forum?
Does it HAVE to be?  He's just reporting it!
I dunno.  It's not really a meet if it's not open to members of the forum. 
No, he doesn't have to.  Every host has a right to do what they want.  What's wrong with sharing it? Nothing.  It's just like Facebook.  How many times have I shared an informal meet? not zero. 

There is no requirement that it (or any other meet) has to be open to the public.  If an impromptu meet happens, do you advertise it?  No.  But can you summarize it, most certainly.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 06:22:55 PM by SSOWorld »
Logged
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

cl94

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6405
  • Helping to break everyone's Sierra clinches

  • Age: 28
  • Location: Northern Nevada
  • Last Login: Today at 09:13:25 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2021, 06:43:31 PM »

Invitational meets are a thing and have been for as long as this hobby has been on the internet. It's just a matter of how publicized they are. There have been several things this year that could be considered "invitational meets". Not all made it onto the forum, but they happened.
Logged
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

roadwaywiz95

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 230
  • :l

  • Age: 34
  • Location: New York
  • Last Login: Today at 08:32:19 PM
    • roadwaywiz
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2021, 08:25:36 PM »

I don't have any issue with the idea of invitational meets, in theory.  Close friends can invite each other to hang out and do whatever they want, and they can exclude whomever they wish to exclude.  I agree with your thought process; I'm not sure what the point is in sharing it with everyone on this forum after the fact.  All it seems to do is emphasize that there are exclusive cliques in the roadgeek community... and for any folks who would have been interested in attending, it rubs it in their faces that they weren't invited.

I think that Scott & Josh have made good points without me having to step in, but I would like to point out at least a couple other things as well. For starters, I am becoming an avid historian when it comes to the history of road enthusiasm as a whole; one of the things I enjoy the most when I look back at the last 25+ years is to track the history of Road Meets and how they’ve evolved over the years. I think the forum has become the default place where people will want to promote their gatherings, but it’s not the only one. And there have been instances in both the recent & distant past where Meets have been “announced” posthumously, if you will. In my case, I want this event documented here on the forum, because it was a sizeable gathering that featured a somewhat-unique tour element. (A guided tour of an active construction site with PPE required.) With an eye toward the history of our little “club” (if you will), I’m very interested in seeing to it that as many Meets as possible get documented in a secure location such as this, so that we all can look back and see how our mutual interest (and our ways of expressing that interest) have grown, changed, and evolved with time.

I think that people like AJ also conveniently forget that a considerably large number of regulars on this forum (and a large number of folks who regularly attend meets nationwide) are based out of a relatively small corner of the country, centered around the Northeast Corridor (DC-NY-Boston). I admit it - we northeasterners are a tight-knit group of people, even without road enthusiasm thrown in to the mix, and we oftentimes don’t need the excuse of a Road Meet to want to get together and see each other. (I know some of you out there are jealous of this fact, but please don’t shoot the messenger this time.) In fact, there have been *literally* dozens of gatherings between us in the last few years that we never thought once about counting as Meets, simply b/c we usually don’t think of our times hanging out together in those terms. In this particular case, my reasoning involving historical matters trumps this known fact about our northeastern group, and I base my decision to publicize this event in this manner on that above combination of facts.

Finally, it’s funny to me that when Alps did the same thing back in September that I’m doing here currently (reporting on a Mini-Meet of his own in the Road Meets segment of the forum by creating its own thread), you (AJ) had nothing to say, positive or negative, about this gesture. You also promptly updated the “2021 Meets” listing to reflect that his meet had in fact taken place and was part of the overall Meet “canon” for the year. I’m still waiting for you to update your very accurate, non-biased, and carefully-crafted list to include this event of mine as well. (Because we all know that there’s nothing personal between you and I that would be somehow preventing this process from being completed on your end, right?) And don’t tell me you “forgot” or something like that. You had plenty of time earlier to write the above comment, didn’t you? Time that would have been better spent doing the right thing for this situation and the hobby as a whole if you ask us.
Logged
@roadwaywiz on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram
Clinched Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/roadwaywiz.gif
Clinched Interstates & Other Highways: https://travelmapping.net/shields/clinched.php?units=miles&u=roadwaywiz

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11279
  • Last Login: Today at 09:20:00 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2021, 08:40:40 PM »

Egads.  I was half-joking about the clique thing, but evidently, it's a thing?
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

A.J. Bertin

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 996
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Grand Rapids, MI
  • Last Login: Today at 09:06:18 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2021, 08:55:26 PM »

I don't have any issue with the idea of invitational meets, in theory.  Close friends can invite each other to hang out and do whatever they want, and they can exclude whomever they wish to exclude.  I agree with your thought process; I'm not sure what the point is in sharing it with everyone on this forum after the fact.  All it seems to do is emphasize that there are exclusive cliques in the roadgeek community... and for any folks who would have been interested in attending, it rubs it in their faces that they weren't invited.

I think that Scott & Josh have made good points without me having to step in, but I would like to point out at least a couple other things as well. For starters, I am becoming an avid historian when it comes to the history of road enthusiasm as a whole; one of the things I enjoy the most when I look back at the last 25+ years is to track the history of Road Meets and how they’ve evolved over the years. I think the forum has become the default place where people will want to promote their gatherings, but it’s not the only one. And there have been instances in both the recent & distant past where Meets have been “announced” posthumously, if you will. In my case, I want this event documented here on the forum, because it was a sizeable gathering that featured a somewhat-unique tour element. (A guided tour of an active construction site with PPE required.) With an eye toward the history of our little “club” (if you will), I’m very interested in seeing to it that as many Meets as possible get documented in a secure location such as this, so that we all can look back and see how our mutual interest (and our ways of expressing that interest) have grown, changed, and evolved with time.

I think that people like AJ also conveniently forget that a considerably large number of regulars on this forum (and a large number of folks who regularly attend meets nationwide) are based out of a relatively small corner of the country, centered around the Northeast Corridor (DC-NY-Boston). I admit it - we northeasterners are a tight-knit group of people, even without road enthusiasm thrown in to the mix, and we oftentimes don’t need the excuse of a Road Meet to want to get together and see each other. (I know some of you out there are jealous of this fact, but please don’t shoot the messenger this time.) In fact, there have been *literally* dozens of gatherings between us in the last few years that we never thought once about counting as Meets, simply b/c we usually don’t think of our times hanging out together in those terms. In this particular case, my reasoning involving historical matters trumps this known fact about our northeastern group, and I base my decision to publicize this event in this manner on that above combination of facts.

Finally, it’s funny to me that when Alps did the same thing back in September that I’m doing here currently (reporting on a Mini-Meet of his own in the Road Meets segment of the forum by creating its own thread), you (AJ) had nothing to say, positive or negative, about this gesture. You also promptly updated the “2021 Meets” listing to reflect that his meet had in fact taken place and was part of the overall Meet “canon” for the year. I’m still waiting for you to update your very accurate, non-biased, and carefully-crafted list to include this event of mine as well. (Because we all know that there’s nothing personal between you and I that would be somehow preventing this process from being completed on your end, right?) And don’t tell me you “forgot” or something like that. You had plenty of time earlier to write the above comment, didn’t you? Time that would have been better spent doing the right thing for this situation and the hobby as a whole if you ask us.

I have added your meet the 2021 list.  As far as everything else you've said here, I have absolutely no comment.  You've said what you need to say.
Logged
-A.J. from Michigan

Brandon

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11267
  • Stop making sense

  • Age: 45
  • Location: Joliet, IL
  • Last Login: Today at 09:44:01 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2021, 07:22:58 AM »

Egads.  I was half-joking about the clique thing, but evidently, it's a thing?

There's a reason "east coast hive mind" has existed as a meme.  :-D
Logged
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11279
  • Last Login: Today at 09:20:00 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2021, 08:10:26 AM »

Egads.  I was half-joking about the clique thing, but evidently, it's a thing?

There's a reason "east coast hive mind" has existed as a meme.  :-D
Heh.

I just didn't expect the thread to take that turn.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

hbelkins

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 18248
  • It is well, it is well, with my soul.

  • Age: 61
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Last Login: Today at 09:33:23 PM
    • Millennium Highway
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2021, 09:58:16 AM »

Meets started out as very much a regional thing. I'm not sure where the concept of them becoming a destination event to which people would drive across multiple states to attend came from. I drove down to a meet in the Charlotte area back in 2004; it was a day trip and I didn't even go on the tour afterwards. For a long time, I only went to meets that could be attended in a single day. Somewhere along the line, meets became things that were announced and planned for weeks, even months, in advance so people could make vacation and travel arrangements. They weren't just for people in the same geographical area. They drew participants from large sections of the country. Meet trips became multi-day excursions to clinch roads and add counties to the collection. And then the meets themselves turned into lunch-and-tour to day-long social events with after-meet activities. Somewhere, the focus went away from highway interests and shifted to a social gathering. (When I was setting up the New River Gorge meet that I couldn't attend due to illness, it was almost scandalous that I was planning it as a morning tour, lunch on your own, and then an afternoon tour).

That being said -- yes, there are cliques in this field of interest. Geographical cliques. Ideological cliques. Interest-oriented cliques. (See RMCA and the Extra-Miler Club for two variants as examples.) And a few other cliques as well that are probably best unmentioned. There have been weddings that turned into mini-meets for those chosen few who were invited. Back in the day, when there was a concentration of like-minded people in the Triad/Triangle area of North Carolina, they had regular get-togethers. When people are traveling, they'll often make private plans to meet for lunch or dinner, or put out a public call for anyone who wants to get together. (Froggie does it often when he's going to be traveling to Albany, and I did it a few years ago when I attended AASHTO's TransComm conference in Annapolis.)

Recording for posterity? Once upon a time, Pete Jenior maintained an online meet archive, complete with photos. It was on Gribblenation, so I'm guessing it vanished into the cyber ether when that domain went away. I don't know if the Wayback Machine still offers access to that page or not, but at one time there was an online repository of meet history.

Egads.  I was half-joking about the clique thing, but evidently, it's a thing?

There's a reason "east coast hive mind" has existed as a meme.  :-D

Well, Carl was out in California. Didn't he plan a meet and no one came? Of course, there's only one viatologist in the world, so a gathering of them would be an impossibility.
Logged


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

A.J. Bertin

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 996
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Grand Rapids, MI
  • Last Login: Today at 09:06:18 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2021, 01:40:36 PM »

I just didn't expect the thread to take that turn.

I probably overreacted, and that's on me.  People who know me well know that, as much as possible, I like to be inclusive with things like this.  It's just that, after you and someone else asked questions about whether this event had been promoted in advance and we knew that it hadn't been, my passion for inclusivity caused me to overreact.  Yes... there are a lot of roadgeeks who live in the northeastern U.S., so their physical proximity made it easy for them to meet up.  (Again, I have no issue with invitational meets.)  But yet, there were probably a few people who would have wanted to try to attend if they could have.  I was simply thinking of those folks and what their reactions were, or would have been, to this announcement.

And yes... I admit that I do have the perception that some folks in our community are more prone to cliques and exclusivity than others, regardless of physical proximity.  H.B. made some good points, though, in his response.
Logged
-A.J. from Michigan

Laura

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 921
  • Mrs. MD Roads

  • Age: 35
  • Location: Bel Air, Maryland
  • Last Login: November 17, 2022, 04:44:55 PM
    • MD Roads
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2021, 09:46:06 AM »

I've often wondered myself where the line is between invitational meets and social events with northeast roadgeeks.

I know others created threads for our roadgeek wedding on August 17, 2013 and roadgeek baby shower on April 27, 2019. I guess the distinction with those events was that they were major life events that were roadgeek themed. We had a 1st birthday wave party and 2nd birthday party for Rainee that were kept small due to the pandemic and there are no threads for those - I guess because children's birthday parties are more personal and more frequent whereas a wedding and baby shower are often once-in-a-lifetime events.

I understand the concern about invitational meets coming off as cliquish. I've worried that my past events came off that way because the last thing I want to do is exclude people. However, there are size and space limitations when peoples' houses and apartments are involved. There are financial restrictions, too, especially with a wedding! This meet had an apartment component which causes size and space limitations. Alps' September meet to me seemed like a social activity (NY State Fair) that turned into a mini meet.

I don't know where I was going with this. Just thinking out loud, I guess.

hbelkins

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 18248
  • It is well, it is well, with my soul.

  • Age: 61
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Last Login: Today at 09:33:23 PM
    • Millennium Highway
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2021, 10:57:22 AM »

People are entitled to have private gatherings. If Persons A, B, C, and D decide to get together to go to a ballgame or a concert, it's really no different that if those same people decide to get together and go tour a construction site.
Logged


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11279
  • Last Login: Today at 09:20:00 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2021, 04:02:25 PM »

People are entitled to have private gatherings.

No.  No, they are not.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Laura

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 921
  • Mrs. MD Roads

  • Age: 35
  • Location: Bel Air, Maryland
  • Last Login: November 17, 2022, 04:44:55 PM
    • MD Roads
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2021, 05:21:11 PM »

People are entitled to have private gatherings.

No.  No, they are not.

Yes they are. I am with HB on this. It would be one thing if the invitational events were being held to purposefully exclude someone (think The Simpsons and the “No HomerS club”) but people are allowed to be closer friends with others and get together to hang out.

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11279
  • Last Login: Today at 09:20:00 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2021, 05:50:56 PM »



People are entitled to have private gatherings.

No.  No, they are not.

Yes they are. I am with HB on this. It would be one thing if the invitational events were being held to purposefully exclude someone (think The Simpsons and the “No HomerS club”) but people are allowed to be closer friends with others and get together to hang out.

No, people are not allowed to be closer friends.  That's crazytalk.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

JayhawkCO

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6137
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Aurora, CO
  • Last Login: Today at 12:29:54 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2021, 05:51:34 PM »

People are entitled to have private gatherings.

No.  No, they are not.

People take you way too seriously.

Chris

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11279
  • Last Login: Today at 09:20:00 PM
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2021, 05:53:26 PM »

People are entitled to have private gatherings.

No.  No, they are not.

People take you way too seriously.

Chris
They do not take me seriously enough, from the look of things.  All gatherings must be duly announced and open to the forum.  This idea of people just getting together on their own -- it's just a ghastly thought and beyond the pale.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

vdeane

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13457
  • Age: 31
  • Location: NY's Capital District
  • Last Login: Today at 08:59:16 PM
    • New York State Roads
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2021, 08:21:04 PM »

People are entitled to have private gatherings.

No.  No, they are not.

Yes they are. I am with HB on this. It would be one thing if the invitational events were being held to purposefully exclude someone (think The Simpsons and the “No HomerS club”) but people are allowed to be closer friends with others and get together to hang out.
True.  I do, however, think that there's a line between a gathering among people who are roadgeeks and an invitational roadmeet, although the lines do get blurred sometimes.  A roadmeet to me feels like a specific type of event with a meal and/or a tour with stops, though variations do exist (such as the "city meet" concept).
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Alps

  • y u m
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15326
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 39
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 10:24:27 PM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Elmsford, NY Mini-Meet - 10/30/21
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2021, 12:14:47 AM »

People are entitled to have private gatherings.

No.  No, they are not.

People take you way too seriously.

Chris
They do not take me seriously enough, from the look of things.  All gatherings must be duly announced and open to the forum.  This idea of people just getting together on their own -- it's just a ghastly thought and beyond the pale.
The only reason I get your humor is because I know you in person. I will say, because I've gotten the same feedback WAY too many times... add a smiley once in awhile. (:

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.