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Author Topic: Southern Illinois Notes  (Read 27036 times)

ilpt4u

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #100 on: August 12, 2020, 11:19:18 AM »

Having lived in the Chicago area at one time, the Chicago media considers *anything* outside of Chicago "downstate" or southern Illinois. I used to laugh when a TV news host would say "in downstate Rockford" which of course is a total misnomer.

For me personally, having also lived in southern Illinois, I tend to draw the line at I-70 or US-50, but that is just me.
Having grown up in Suburban Will County and now living in Southern Illinois in Jackson County, my definition of Southern Illinois has certainly changed

Growing up in Chicagoland: Anything south of I-80 is Southern Illinois; In Roadgeek terms, anything outside of IDOT D1

Now as a resident of the actual southern part of Illinois: Anything south of I-64 is my general definition, tho I can cheat it up to the US 50 corridor; Roadgeek terms, anything inside of IDOT D8&9. I-70 I think is far enough north to be Central Illinois
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 12:30:00 PM by ilpt4u »
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kphoger

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #101 on: August 12, 2020, 12:11:44 PM »


Having lived in the Chicago area at one time, the Chicago media considers *anything* outside of Chicago "downstate" or southern Illinois. I used to laugh when a TV news host would say "in downstate Rockford" which of course is a total misnomer.

For me personally, having also lived in southern Illinois, I tend to draw the line at I-70 or US-50, but that is just me.

Having grown up in Suburban Will County and now living in Southern Illinois in Jackson County, my definition of Southern Illinois has certainly changed

Growing up in Chicagoland: Anything south of I-80 is Southern Illinois; In Roadgeek terms, anything outside of IDOT D1

Now as a resident of the actual southern part of Illinois: Anything south of I-64 is my general definition, tho I can cheat it up to the US 50 corridor; Roadgeek terms, anything outside of IDOT D8&9. I-70 I think is far enough north to be Central Illinois

At least when I lived in the area, McDonald's in Mount Vernon had sweet tea, but McDonald's in Effingham didn't.
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #102 on: August 12, 2020, 12:27:00 PM »

Having lived in the Chicago area at one time, the Chicago media considers *anything* outside of Chicago "downstate" or southern Illinois. I used to laugh when a TV news host would say "in downstate Rockford" which of course is a total misnomer.

For me personally, having also lived in southern Illinois, I tend to draw the line at I-70 or US-50, but that is just me.
Having grown up in Suburban Will County and now living in Southern Illinois in Jackson County, my definition of Southern Illinois has certainly changed

Growing up in Chicagoland: Anything south of I-80 is Southern Illinois; In Roadgeek terms, anything outside of IDOT D1

Now as a resident of the actual southern part of Illinois: Anything south of I-64 is my general definition, tho I can cheat it up to the US 50 corridor; Roadgeek terms, anything outside of IDOT D8&9. I-70 I think is far enough north to be Central Illinois

Since southern Illinois is also called "Little Egypt", there was a high school sports conference called the "North Egypt Conference" that included a bunch of towns along or just below US 50. Flora, Salem, Lawrenceville, Red Hill (Bridgeport), Olney, Mt Carmel, and Carmi since 1929. That is why I always thought US-50 was the "border" if there ever was one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Egypt_Conference
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kphoger

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #103 on: August 12, 2020, 12:38:31 PM »

Wayne City definitely feels "southern Illinois" to me, and so does Mount Carmel.

Cisne and Allendale could go either way.

Lawrenceville, Flora, and Salem feel less "southern Illinois" to me.

Louisville feels like Flora Junior, but Kinmundy definitely feels more "central Illinois" to me.

So, in my opinion, the boundary has to be north of IL-15 but south of the Marion–Fayette county line.
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ThatRandomOshawott

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #104 on: August 13, 2020, 01:15:44 AM »

One of my high school teachers was originally from between Marion and Mt. Vernon, and he said that he noticed that the boundary for Southern accents is around Champaign. So I would assume Champaign/Urbana is the furthest north you would get any sort of Southern IL culture.
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #105 on: August 13, 2020, 10:42:19 AM »

One of my high school teachers was originally from between Marion and Mt. Vernon, and he said that he noticed that the boundary for Southern accents is around Champaign. So I would assume Champaign/Urbana is the furthest north you would get any sort of Southern IL culture.

One thing for sure, when I moved to the Chicago metro in 1975, I got seriously mocked for my accent. "Are you from Alabama?, Are you from Texas?" "No", I said, "I am from Illinois". "No one in Illinois talks like you do" is what I was told.

What I really wanted to say is if you actually drove somewhere the L doesn't stop, you would know Illinois is more than just Chicago. But after awhile I started running into other transplants, from Newton, Carbondale, Mt Vernon, McLeansboro, etc. and they all shared the same stories of mockery and adjustment.

Since I moved out of Illinois, the biggest issue I run into now is people who say "Illi-noise".  I would say I correct about 2 people a month now on how to pronounce the state correctly.

Once I got stopped by 2 undercover CPD officers and they didn't even know where in the suburbs my residence was located. They just said "never heard of it"

On the flip side, I had to go to court in Jasper County (Newton) for a ticket once and the top #1 rule when you appear in a county court in southern Illinois is, never say you are from Chicago! If you live in a suburb and the judge asks where your town is on your license, you just say "its in northern Illinois".
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kphoger

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #106 on: August 13, 2020, 10:59:31 AM »

Heck, southern Illinois is "southern" enough that I had a customer in Eldorado who pronounced TP as "turrlet paper".
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ThatRandomOshawott

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #107 on: August 13, 2020, 01:32:28 PM »

If you do genealogical work in Western Kentucky or West Tennessee, then you may end up having a cousin that moved to Southern IL back in the 19th century. One of the main reasons why there is such a divide between Chicago and Southern IL is the demographic and genealogical differences between them. Southern IL was largely settled by people from the Upper South as well as some Germans, but Chicago grew because of German and Polish immigration. You'll find plenty of Joneses and Smiths in Southern IL, but in Chicago, you'll find plenty of "-ski" surnames.
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Life in Paradise

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #108 on: August 13, 2020, 01:54:20 PM »

If you do genealogical work in Western Kentucky or West Tennessee, then you may end up having a cousin that moved to Southern IL back in the 19th century. One of the main reasons why there is such a divide between Chicago and Southern IL is the demographic and genealogical differences between them. Southern IL was largely settled by people from the Upper South as well as some Germans, but Chicago grew because of German and Polish immigration. You'll find plenty of Joneses and Smiths in Southern IL, but in Chicago, you'll find plenty of "-ski" surnames.
There is the old story of Shawneetown, Illinois and that a bank loan officer turned down a request for a loan for the town of Chicago since he thought nothing would come of it.
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kphoger

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2020, 01:59:48 PM »

Southern IL was largely settled by people from the Upper South as well as some Germans

Having lived in Herrin, I should also mention:  Don't forget Italy!
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #110 on: August 13, 2020, 03:37:38 PM »

Southern IL was largely settled by people from the Upper South as well as some Germans

Having lived in Herrin, I should also mention:  Don't forget Italy!

As to the mentioning the genealogy, yes, around the 1830's there was a large migration from Tennessee and Kentucky. At the time "organized" Illinois was based out of Kaskaskia and later Vandalia.

When I read the history of Montgomery County (Hillsboro) the mention of this large group of people looking for good farmland was the big motivation for them to come.

As for Herrin,  there are several Italian Festivals in Illinois every year, many of them located in and around former coal mine towns. Toluca, Illinois (pop: 1400) has 3 Italian restaurants, all started by the families that worked the nearby strip mines in the late 1800's.  Seeing that Herrin is in similar geography, I would assume the same history is at work. Many descendants of Illinois can trace their history to the fact their ancestors came to work the mines. There are other nationally known people in the US who can trace their roots to Illinois because of the coal.
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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #111 on: August 13, 2020, 05:20:04 PM »

I really set it up to cover South of 80 because Great Lakes just isn't that interested in downstate projects. Nothing against them but there seems more interest in the downstate projects here. I am in Western Illinois and hope Rick Powell stops by with his downstate expertise.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #112 on: August 14, 2020, 11:48:49 PM »

I really set it up to cover South of 80 because Great Lakes just isn't that interested in downstate projects. Nothing against them but there seems more interest in the downstate projects here. I am in Western Illinois and hope Rick Powell stops by with his downstate expertise.
I’m here! But my experience south of, say, Decatur is somewhat limited because I spent most of my career working in IDOT District 3 west of Chicago. One of the great things IDOT did while I was there was send us to seminars and continuing education all over the state where we could socialize and swap stories with the people in other Districts. Really, each one has its own culture and do things a little differently, but all are tied to the Springfield central office. 

Speaking of that, I had a nice chat last February with the lady who managed the Pana-to-Centralia US 51 study for IDOT, and she confirmed to me a lot of the details we had speculated about here and that it will probably sit on the shelf indefinitely.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 11:56:35 PM by Rick Powell »
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #113 on: August 15, 2020, 12:37:50 AM »

I really set it up to cover South of 80 because Great Lakes just isn't that interested in downstate projects. Nothing against them but there seems more interest in the downstate projects here. I am in Western Illinois and hope Rick Powell stops by with his downstate expertise.
I’m here! But my experience south of, say, Decatur is somewhat limited because I spent most of my career working in IDOT District 3 west of Chicago. One of the great things IDOT did while I was there was send us to seminars and continuing education all over the state where we could socialize and swap stories with the people in other Districts. Really, each one has its own culture and do things a little differently, but all are tied to the Springfield central office. 

Speaking of that, I had a nice chat last February with the lady who managed the Pana-to-Centralia US 51 study for IDOT, and she confirmed to me a lot of the details we had speculated about here and that it will probably sit on the shelf indefinitely.

That the residents of Pana ultimately didn't want it?

That the residents of Vandalia wanted all the benefits and none of the demerits?

I think you could write a book called "The Bypassing of America" and how smaller towns in the 60's and 70's saw their downtowns diminish when their DOT's built bypasses of them in the name of safety and economy of time. Many towns are seeing the facts and showing less interest in highway expansions that take people around and away from their town centers. Only those towns seeking an industrial base still have a vested interest because many commercial real estate brokers make it a requirement to attract business.

 
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captkirk_4

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #114 on: August 15, 2020, 02:40:45 PM »

One of my high school teachers was originally from between Marion and Mt. Vernon, and he said that he noticed that the boundary for Southern accents is around Champaign. So I would assume Champaign/Urbana is the furthest north you would get any sort of Southern IL culture.

Yes, although in the last 30 years Champaign has filled up with people from elsewhere in the country the area is a transition zone on the Mason Dixon Line. Go to Gibson City just 20 miles north and the locals have the Mid Atlantic Dialect heard on the nightly news. Go south 20 miles to Tuscola and the accent they speak is Appalachian, one guy from Douglas County around Tuscola calls the Farm and Fleet store "Form and Floyt." Also down around Effingham on the rural roads you start to see a lot of Anti-Abortion signs that to me appear like a hobby horse obsession about a really insignificant issue facing America in the 21st Century with 100,000+ factories exported to China in an act of corrupt treason far worse than anything Guy Fawkes ever did.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 02:43:16 PM by captkirk_4 »
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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #115 on: August 15, 2020, 03:47:38 PM »

Rick  they put a notice in the Federal Register its over. The only ones that have life are 127 and 67 . Edwaleni found out 50 was gone in 2017. Also Canton swapped 24 for 336.
I guess 20 and 29 are gone except the passing lanes on 20?

Have you heard anything about 67 north of Jacksonville ? That is full of floodplain and that pretty much made 34 the Monmouth Biggsville exprrssway.

Wondered if that got 67 .
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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #116 on: August 15, 2020, 03:55:58 PM »

Roseville wanted through town but not 5 lanes. Finally after the bypass was built I DOT said Oh we could have just done 3 ! I have timed them it saves about 2 mins so 67 from Monmouth to Macomb is 36 miles and it could have been a third through town. I don't see why Jerseyville couldn't dump it's bypass and build the rest. It's 10 % of the route and would cost as much as the rest.

I also read Pana soured on the bypass. The southwest connector people don't seem to realize the bypassed have fallen out of favor
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ilpt4u

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #117 on: August 15, 2020, 04:05:13 PM »

The southwest connector people don't seem to realize the bypassed have fallen out of favor
I thought I read something that Pinckneyville is still shooting for the SWC to NOT bypass town. Not sure how that will work out, assuming something like the SWC actually gets built this time
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #118 on: August 15, 2020, 04:13:40 PM »

Roseville wanted through town but not 5 lanes. Finally after the bypass was built I DOT said Oh we could have just done 3 ! I have timed them it saves about 2 mins so 67 from Monmouth to Macomb is 36 miles and it could have been a third through town. I don't see why Jerseyville couldn't dump it's bypass and build the rest. It's 10 % of the route and would cost as much as the rest.

I also read Pana soured on the bypass. The southwest connector people don't seem to realize the bypassed have fallen out of favor

Jerseyville could end up on the bubble now.

KCS (Kansas City Southern) railroad is rumored to be up for sale. Jerseyville and KCS have been working on this auto parts logistics center together and they have been pushing IDOT to get US-67 finished to them as part of that.

If Canadian Pacific ends up buying them, and they are considered the most likely, CP will no longer need the eastern gateway in Springfield, Illinois. It was good for KCS bringing auto parts up from Mexico and dropping them off for Norfolk Southern to take it the rest of the way to Michigan. But the route doesn't originate a large amount of traffic because its 2 competitors (UP, NS) to name a couple already have access to the yards in Kansas City. So CP would rather take it all the way to Chicago and transfer it to their GTW subsidiary. That makes the route from Kansas City to Springfield (Roodhouse Sub)with the East St Louis connector (Godfrey Sub), somewhat redundant.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #119 on: August 15, 2020, 04:18:31 PM »


Having lived in the Chicago area at one time, the Chicago media considers *anything* outside of Chicago "downstate" or southern Illinois. I used to laugh when a TV news host would say "in downstate Rockford" which of course is a total misnomer.

For me personally, having also lived in southern Illinois, I tend to draw the line at I-70 or US-50, but that is just me.

Having grown up in Suburban Will County and now living in Southern Illinois in Jackson County, my definition of Southern Illinois has certainly changed

Growing up in Chicagoland: Anything south of I-80 is Southern Illinois; In Roadgeek terms, anything outside of IDOT D1

Now as a resident of the actual southern part of Illinois: Anything south of I-64 is my general definition, tho I can cheat it up to the US 50 corridor; Roadgeek terms, anything outside of IDOT D8&9. I-70 I think is far enough north to be Central Illinois

At least when I lived in the area, McDonald's in Mount Vernon had sweet tea, but McDonald's in Effingham didn't.

LOL. When we went to Vermont one summer, we were surprised they didn't have sweet tea! Most of the McDonalds up there, don't even have drive throughs, just a walk up windows where it normally would be. But the Chick-Fil-A's in Chicago sell sweet tea.
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Stephane Dumas

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #120 on: August 15, 2020, 05:24:58 PM »

Jerseyville could end up on the bubble now.

KCS (Kansas City Southern) railroad is rumored to be up for sale. Jerseyville and KCS have been working on this auto parts logistics center together and they have been pushing IDOT to get US-67 finished to them as part of that.

If Canadian Pacific ends up buying them, and they are considered the most likely, CP will no longer need the eastern gateway in Springfield, Illinois. It was good for KCS bringing auto parts up from Mexico and dropping them off for Norfolk Southern to take it the rest of the way to Michigan. But the route doesn't originate a large amount of traffic because its 2 competitors (UP, NS) to name a couple already have access to the yards in Kansas City. So CP would rather take it all the way to Chicago and transfer it to their GTW subsidiary. That makes the route from Kansas City to Springfield (Roodhouse Sub)with the East St Louis connector (Godfrey Sub), somewhat redundant.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

GTW is a subsdiary of CN (Canadian National) not CP Rail unless CN had sold GTW to CP recently.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #121 on: August 15, 2020, 09:52:39 PM »

Rick  they put a notice in the Federal Register its over. The only ones that have life are 127 and 67 . Edwaleni found out 50 was gone in 2017. Also Canton swapped 24 for 336.
I guess 20 and 29 are gone except the passing lanes on 20?

Have you heard anything about 67 north of Jacksonville ? That is full of floodplain and that pretty much made 34 the Monmouth Biggsville exprrssway.

Wondered if that got 67 .

Well, the Beardstown Bridge is a 67 project north of JVille, and it will be 4-Lane compatible even though the initial construction will be 2. As far as US20, the money isn’t there to do the full freeway, but IDOT is very interested in improving safety in the corridor, in one form or another.
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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #122 on: August 15, 2020, 11:45:59 PM »

Thanks.
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #123 on: August 16, 2020, 12:10:38 PM »

Jerseyville could end up on the bubble now.

KCS (Kansas City Southern) railroad is rumored to be up for sale. Jerseyville and KCS have been working on this auto parts logistics center together and they have been pushing IDOT to get US-67 finished to them as part of that.

If Canadian Pacific ends up buying them, and they are considered the most likely, CP will no longer need the eastern gateway in Springfield, Illinois. It was good for KCS bringing auto parts up from Mexico and dropping them off for Norfolk Southern to take it the rest of the way to Michigan. But the route doesn't originate a large amount of traffic because its 2 competitors (UP, NS) to name a couple already have access to the yards in Kansas City. So CP would rather take it all the way to Chicago and transfer it to their GTW subsidiary. That makes the route from Kansas City to Springfield (Roodhouse Sub)with the East St Louis connector (Godfrey Sub), somewhat redundant.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

GTW is a subsdiary of CN (Canadian National) not CP Rail unless CN had sold GTW to CP recently.

My error.

You are correct. And its not the first time I have attributed GTW to CP instead of CN.

CP has trackage/haulage rights to Detroit.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #124 on: August 27, 2020, 10:51:23 PM »

Well, it's more western IL than southern IL, but the Environmental Assessment for the replacement of the IL 100-106 bridge at Florence is now posted at IDOT's website.

http://www.florencebridgestudy.com/get_involved/public_notice.aspx

And a live public hearing (with social distancing) will be held 4-7 pm September 10 in Winchester IL. I think this is the first live public event for IDOT since the COVID restrictions. FWIW, Scott County was the last county in the state to report a COVID case.

http://www.florencebridgestudy.com/pdfs/il100-106_florence_bridge_ph_notice_sep2020.pdf
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