The ghosts of Los Angeles' unbuilt freeways

[kernals12]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

If they had done it back in the 60s, they would be jammed up by now.

Really? Is there that much beach traffic?

I think the land along the freeway in the mountains would have been more heavily developed. The residents would work in the SF Valley, but the closer to the beach, the more valuable the land. In the summer it's frequently 30 degrees cooler at the beach than around US-101.

You can see this effect along route 73 in OC. When they first build that, it went through a whole lotta nuthin. Now look at it. Were it not for its exhorbitant tolls, that freeway would be jammed up too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0728478,-118.588346,3a,60y,68.74h,81.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sb3eaZgCR9nu7BWlRTntfXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Look at this. How the hell would would you build a freeway through that?

[Max Rockatansky]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

If they had done it back in the 60s, they would be jammed up by now.

Really? Is there that much beach traffic?

I think the land along the freeway in the mountains would have been more heavily developed. The residents would work in the SF Valley, but the closer to the beach, the more valuable the land. In the summer it's frequently 30 degrees cooler at the beach than around US-101.

You can see this effect along route 73 in OC. When they first build that, it went through a whole lotta nuthin. Now look at it. Were it not for its exhorbitant tolls, that freeway would be jammed up too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0728478,-118.588346,3a,60y,68.74h,81.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sb3eaZgCR9nu7BWlRTntfXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Look at this. How the hell would would you build a freeway through that?

Modern excavators.  Look at CA 18 in Waterman Canyon above San Bernardino, it is basically a stone throw from four-lane freeway status to CA 138. 

[kernals12]

https://www.nytimes.com/1974/08/25/archives/nixon-freeway-project-suspended-in-california-dropped-from-masthead.html

The 1974 New York Times article about the cancelation of the Slauson/Marina/Nixon Freeway makes no mention of pollution or demolished homes. It says the decision was purely economic, citing "inflation, spiraling construction costs and uncertain funding from the Federal Government"

As the Century Freeway showed, if Caltrans really, really wants to pursue an extremely unpopular Freeway project, they'll do it.

[Henry]

The author mentioned that Lucille Ball was one of the celebrities fighting against the Beverly Hills Freeway. Not coincidentally, in 1967, there was an episode of The Lucy Show where Lucy fights to save a small town from having a highway built down its main street.

I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but I remember seeing an old Bugs Bunny cartoon where a construction crew threatens to pave a freeway over his hole, and Bugs goes to great lengths to stop it from happening.

EDIT: Nevermind, I looked it up on Google, and the title is ''No Parking Hare'', a Looney Tunes short from 1954.

[Max Rockatansky]

https://www.nytimes.com/1974/08/25/archives/nixon-freeway-project-suspended-in-california-dropped-from-masthead.html

The 1974 New York Times article about the cancelation of the Slauson/Marina/Nixon Freeway makes no mention of pollution or demolished homes. It says the decision was purely economic, citing "inflation, spiraling construction costs and uncertain funding from the Federal Government"

As the Century Freeway showed, if Caltrans really, really wants to pursue an extremely unpopular Freeway project, they'll do it.

Unbuilt 90 never has been Legislatively cancelled nor deleted from the Freeway & Expressway system.  In "theory"  if there was enough force of will a new adopted alignment couple be added and be pursued.  That's why there was such a push to change the Legislative definition of 710 and delete the Pasadena Gap from the Freeway & Expressway System, it kept reviving conceptually.

Also, you ought to be directing your statement more at the California Transportation Commission than Caltrans. 

[kernals12]

The author mentioned that Lucille Ball was one of the celebrities fighting against the Beverly Hills Freeway. Not coincidentally, in 1967, there was an episode of The Lucy Show where Lucy fights to save a small town from having a highway built down its main street.

I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but I remember seeing an old Bugs Bunny cartoon where a construction crew threatens to pave a freeway over his hole, and Bugs goes to great lengths to stop it from happening.

EDIT: Nevermind, I looked it up on Google, and the title is ''No Parking Hare'', a Looney Tunes short from 1954.

There was also a Yogi Bear episode where Yogi wakes up from hibernation only to find his cave is now in the median of a freeway

[skluth]

The author mentioned that Lucille Ball was one of the celebrities fighting against the Beverly Hills Freeway. Not coincidentally, in 1967, there was an episode of The Lucy Show where Lucy fights to save a small town from having a highway built down its main street.

I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but I remember seeing an old Bugs Bunny cartoon where a construction crew threatens to pave a freeway over his hole, and Bugs goes to great lengths to stop it from happening.

EDIT: Nevermind, I looked it up on Google, and the title is ''No Parking Hare'', a Looney Tunes short from 1954.

There was also a Yogi Bear episode where Yogi wakes up from hibernation only to find his cave is now in the median of a freeway

There's also the opening of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy where Arthur Dent tries to stop a bypass from going through his home right before the Vogons destroy the planet for an intergalactic bypass.

[kernals12]

This is funny but irrelevant. I mentioned that Lucy Show episode because Lucille Ball, in real life, was a public opponent of a freeway project in her community. Unless the writers or voice actors for any of these cartoons also opposed a freeway, then it's not relevant.

And anyways, the 1964 traffic study for the Beverly Hills Freeway was predicated on a population in Los Angeles county of 13 million by 1990. I think that the Santa Monica Freeway gets the job done, especially since the Century Freeway got rid of the LAX-bound traffic. Also, the Beverly Hills Freeway, on its east side, would've created a new bottleneck on the already-congested Hollywood Freeway and on the West Side, there would've been just 1.2 miles between its interchange with the 405 and that of the Santa Monica.

You could accuse me of sour grapes, but I don't think the cancellation of the Beverly Freeway was that big of a deal.

[mrsman]

This is funny but irrelevant. I mentioned that Lucy Show episode because Lucille Ball, in real life, was a public opponent of a freeway project in her community. Unless the writers or voice actors for any of these cartoons also opposed a freeway, then it's not relevant.

And anyways, the 1964 traffic study for the Beverly Hills Freeway was predicated on a population in Los Angeles county of 13 million by 1990. I think that the Santa Monica Freeway gets the job done, especially since the Century Freeway got rid of the LAX-bound traffic. Also, the Beverly Hills Freeway, on its east side, would've created a new bottleneck on the already-congested Hollywood Freeway and on the West Side, there would've been just 1.2 miles between its interchange with the 405 and that of the Santa Monica.

You could accuse me of sour grapes, but I don't think the cancellation of the Beverly Freeway was that big of a deal.

The Hollywood-Santa Monica corridor that is mainly Santa Monica Blvd (and some other parallel streets) is one of the busiest corridors in L.A.  A lot of this is because it is the wealthiest part of town and employment follows wealth.

If Downtown LA remained the main office hub of the area, then a freeway in this area would not be so critical, as Westside to Downtown LA traffic could take the 10.  But with the rise of offices in Beverly Hills, Century City, Westwood, and Santa Monica, you have basically a new Downtown right on the west side.  Downtown LA has freeways serving it in every direction, Beverly Hills and Century City are simply not served by freeways. 

It is a real slog to get to Century City via Motor Ave to the 10 or via Santa Monica and Olympic to the 405.  What about the folks coming in from cheaper areas like Hollywood and Silver Lake (and then taking the 2 to reach further suburbs).  They take surface streets the whole way.  And the main surface streets, like Olympic and Pico are so crowded that people are commuting on narrow residential streets.  Look at Whitworth (between Olympic and Pico) or Cashio (south of Pico).  Look at Willoughby (between Melrose and Santa Monica).

Better freeway access would have helped.  Hopefully, the extension of the Wilshire subway can provid alternatives for those commuting to this area.

[The Ghostbuster]

Would it have been possible to build any of the canceled freeways underground in deep-bored tunnels? The 710 tunnel should have been built, and I believe those who opposed it have lost their right to bitch about congested roads.

[Sonic99]

Would it have been possible to build any of the canceled freeways underground in deep-bored tunnels? The 710 tunnel should have been built, and I believe those who opposed it have lost their right to bitch about congested roads.

Sure, if you throw enough money at it, they could do anything.

[skluth]

Would it have been possible to build any of the canceled freeways underground in deep-bored tunnels? The 710 tunnel should have been built, and I believe those who opposed it have lost their right to bitch about congested roads.

An I-710 tunnel connecting the two stubs would be about 4.5 miles. A two lane tunnel would cost $250M per mile minimum; that's already $2.25B for twin two-lane tunnels. The price goes up if you hit hard rock like granite, add extra lanes, earthquake-proofing, etc. The estimated cost to start was already $5.4B (paywalled) and no big project is ever as low as the initial cost, especially in California. (Check the new Bay Bridge or the HSR project for examples.)

[pderocco]

Would it have been possible to build any of the canceled freeways underground in deep-bored tunnels? The 710 tunnel should have been built, and I believe those who opposed it have lost their right to bitch about congested roads.

An I-710 tunnel connecting the two stubs would be about 4.5 miles. A two lane tunnel would cost $250M per mile minimum; that's already $2.25B for twin two-lane tunnels. The price goes up if you hit hard rock like granite, add extra lanes, earthquake-proofing, etc. The estimated cost to start was already $5.4B (paywalled) and no big project is ever as low as the initial cost, especially in California. (Check the new Bay Bridge or the HSR project for examples.)

Well, they're spending a few hundred billion to fight inflation...

[brad2971]

This is funny but irrelevant. I mentioned that Lucy Show episode because Lucille Ball, in real life, was a public opponent of a freeway project in her community. Unless the writers or voice actors for any of these cartoons also opposed a freeway, then it's not relevant.

And anyways, the 1964 traffic study for the Beverly Hills Freeway was predicated on a population in Los Angeles county of 13 million by 1990. I think that the Santa Monica Freeway gets the job done, especially since the Century Freeway got rid of the LAX-bound traffic. Also, the Beverly Hills Freeway, on its east side, would've created a new bottleneck on the already-congested Hollywood Freeway and on the West Side, there would've been just 1.2 miles between its interchange with the 405 and that of the Santa Monica.

You could accuse me of sour grapes, but I don't think the cancellation of the Beverly Freeway was that big of a deal.

Got a link to that 1964 traffic study? Because that 1990 estimate of 13 million people for LA county is...only off by 3 million for the 2020 Census.