Commissioners Propose Knoxville Highway Bypass

Started by afguy, January 17, 2023, 07:12:23 PM

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afguy

I know a similar bypass was proposed in the 90s. Maybe the same proposal will be revived.

Commissioners Propose Knoxville Highway Bypass
QuoteKnox County commissioners are proposing a new highway bypass around Knoxville. Knox County Commissioner Larsen Jay stated that the highway would help alleviate the continually increasing traffic in the area.

The Commission of Knox County created a resolution encouraging the Tennessee Department of Transportation and state legislators to consider a new highway bypass around Knoxville. The document says traffic congestion in the area requires long-term solutions.

The commission said Knox County's population has more than doubled in the last 40 years. Approximately 182,000 vehicles travel through the I-40/I-75 corridor every day, the document said.

Additionally, the commissioners argue that as Tennessee traffic increases, citizen commute times could also significantly increase if highway improvements are not done.
https://www.wdef.com/commissioners-propose-knoxville-highway-bypass/


sprjus4


hbelkins

The biggest problem in Knoxville is the single-lane ramp you have to use to stay on I-75 south at the I-640 interchange. Many times, it's faster to continue on I-275 (old I-75) to I-40 downtown.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

wdcrft63

Quote from: afguy on January 17, 2023, 07:12:23 PM
I know a similar bypass was proposed in the 90s. Maybe the same proposal will be revived.

Commissioners Propose Knoxville Highway Bypass
QuoteKnox County commissioners are proposing a new highway bypass around Knoxville. Knox County Commissioner Larsen Jay stated that the highway would help alleviate the continually increasing traffic in the area.

The Commission of Knox County created a resolution encouraging the Tennessee Department of Transportation and state legislators to consider a new highway bypass around Knoxville. The document says traffic congestion in the area requires long-term solutions.

The commission said Knox County's population has more than doubled in the last 40 years. Approximately 182,000 vehicles travel through the I-40/I-75 corridor every day, the document said.

Additionally, the commissioners argue that as Tennessee traffic increases, citizen commute times could also significantly increase if highway improvements are not done.
https://www.wdef.com/commissioners-propose-knoxville-highway-bypass/
The proposed bypass, to be called TN 475 or I-475, was cancelled in 2010 because projections showed it would not divert enough traffic from Knoxville to justify its high cost. Since a lot of northbound I-75 traffic is headed to I-40 east or I-81 a bypass would need to go all the way around to I-40 east, doubling its cost at least.

wriddle082

#4
Quote from: hbelkins on January 17, 2023, 07:44:26 PM
The biggest problem in Knoxville is the single-lane ramp you have to use to stay on I-75 south at the I-640 interchange. Many times, it's faster to continue on I-275 (old I-75) to I-40 downtown.

I often skip either of those ramps to 640 and stay straight on 275 to 40 in either direction.  Especially due to the pavement reconstruction they're doing (again!) along 640 in East Knoxville.  And because the SmartFix 40 area in Downtown Knoxville always seems to be flowing pretty smoothly when I pass through.

Since I did some work in the area about three months ago, what I have definitely noticed is that the 40/75 duplex is often a slog during all daylight hours. 

And also the Hardin Valley area where they had originally proposed the 475 bypass back in the 90's has experienced quite a bit of new housing growth, and pretty nice houses to boot.  So expect a lot more NIMBY pushback than before.

BlueRidge

More than just cost, it was met with stiff local opposition.

https://archive.knoxnews.com/news/local/orange-route-axed-tdot-official-says-ep-408196334-358663141.html

The proposed routing was just dumb. Basically a shortcut for thru I-75 traffic, with no benefit to I-40 traffic or local Knoxville traffic.

Tomahawkin

Please get this started within the next 2 years. It's better to be proactive on outer beltways in Sunbelt cities! NashVegas is already becoming the mini Atlanta as far as sprawl and traffic goes

webny99

Quote from: hbelkins on January 17, 2023, 07:44:26 PM
The biggest problem in Knoxville is the single-lane ramp you have to use to stay on I-75 south at the I-640 interchange. Many times, it's faster to continue on I-275 (old I-75) to I-40 downtown.

Concur. NB has a single lane ramp too, but that doesn't seem to cause as many problems, probably because that section of I-75/I-640 isn't as busy as I-75 north of there.  Also, the entire I-40/I-75 overlap needs to be 8-lanes.

webny99

Quote from: BlueRidge on January 17, 2023, 08:34:50 PM
More than just cost, it was met with stiff local opposition.

https://archive.knoxnews.com/news/local/orange-route-axed-tdot-official-says-ep-408196334-358663141.html

The proposed routing was just dumb. Basically a shortcut for thru I-75 traffic, with no benefit to I-40 traffic or local Knoxville traffic.

I can't help but wonder if a highway starting from I-140 and heading east, wrapping around the south side of Knoxville roughly along the TN 168 corridor to form an I-40 bypass, would be just as practical with more benefit to traffic.

Strider

Quote from: webny99 on January 17, 2023, 09:07:41 PM
Quote from: BlueRidge on January 17, 2023, 08:34:50 PM
More than just cost, it was met with stiff local opposition.

https://archive.knoxnews.com/news/local/orange-route-axed-tdot-official-says-ep-408196334-358663141.html

The proposed routing was just dumb. Basically a shortcut for thru I-75 traffic, with no benefit to I-40 traffic or local Knoxville traffic.

I can't help but wonder if a highway starting from I-140 and heading east, wrapping around the south side of Knoxville roughly along the TN 168 corridor to form an I-40 bypass, would be just as practical with more benefit to traffic.


Two issues: If you want a highway starting from I-140 and heading east.. it may be so expensive because you have to build maybe one or TWO river bridges (Tennessee and French Board). Bridges are not cheap.

I don't know what it is like in that area, but I am pretty sure there will be opposition as well.

sprjus4

Sort of related, an extension of the I-140 freeway (SR 162) is planned to begin within the next couple years and will extend southeast to US-321.

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/projects-region-1/pellissippi.html

froggie

As a general rule, the topography does not lend itself well to an effective (or inexpensive) Knoxville bypass.  Anything that does not already follow an existing corridor or travel in a WSW-ENE direction will be problematic.

webny99

Quote from: sprjus4 on January 17, 2023, 10:45:05 PM
Sort of related, an extension of the I-140 freeway (SR 162) is planned to begin within the next couple years and will extend southeast to US-321.

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/projects-region-1/pellissippi.html

Great to see this is happening at least. It will be a decent step towards providing a good alternate from Knoxville to the Smokies. The primary route via I-40>TN 66>US 441 is rather nightmarish.

wriddle082

Quote from: webny99 on January 17, 2023, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 17, 2023, 10:45:05 PM
Sort of related, an extension of the I-140 freeway (SR 162) is planned to begin within the next couple years and will extend southeast to US-321.

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/projects-region-1/pellissippi.html

Great to see this is happening at least. It will be a decent step towards providing a good alternate from Knoxville to the Smokies. The primary route via I-40>TN 66>US 441 is rather nightmarish.

And I'm glad that they widened the two-lane gap in US 321 b/w Lenoir City and the Loudon/Blount County line.  This involved coordination with TVA to widen in the area of Tellico and Fort Loudon Dams, and from what I saw a few months ago when I was working in the area, they did a first class job.  Staying on 321 west (marked as south) of Maryville isn't as attractive of a route as I-140 in terms of speed, but Lenoir City does offer some decent services (gas, food, lodging, etc.) and you don't get caught up in the congested portion of 40/75 that's only six lanes.

And I can't bring up this section of US 321 without mentioning that from Elizabethton going west it needs to be renumbered to something like US 470.  It's more east-west than north-south, it intersects US 70 twice, and you don't have the confusion of two US 321 southbounds leaving Elizabethton.

Henry

If they can't build I-/TN 475, then at least let them have fun with this one.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Mapmikey

Quote from: wriddle082 on January 18, 2023, 02:13:35 AM
And I can't bring up this section of US 321 without mentioning that from Elizabethton going west it needs to be renumbered to something like US 470.  It's more east-west than north-south, it intersects US 70 twice, and you don't have the confusion of two US 321 southbounds leaving Elizabethton.


A different idea would be reroute US 70 over 321 from Newport westward and extend US 411 to Elizabethton.

wriddle082

Quote from: Mapmikey on January 18, 2023, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on January 18, 2023, 02:13:35 AM
And I can't bring up this section of US 321 without mentioning that from Elizabethton going west it needs to be renumbered to something like US 470.  It's more east-west than north-south, it intersects US 70 twice, and you don't have the confusion of two US 321 southbounds leaving Elizabethton.


A different idea would be reroute US 70 over 321 from Newport westward and extend US 411 to Elizabethton.

Yeah that could work too.  And the short orphaned stretch of US 70 from just north of Lenoir City to Dixie-Lee Junction could just revert back to TN 1, making it the second revealed/signed section of it, in addition to the small bit in Sparta.

Mapmikey

Quote from: wriddle082 on January 18, 2023, 07:57:02 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on January 18, 2023, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on January 18, 2023, 02:13:35 AM
And I can't bring up this section of US 321 without mentioning that from Elizabethton going west it needs to be renumbered to something like US 470.  It's more east-west than north-south, it intersects US 70 twice, and you don't have the confusion of two US 321 southbounds leaving Elizabethton.


A different idea would be reroute US 70 over 321 from Newport westward and extend US 411 to Elizabethton.

Yeah that could work too.  And the short orphaned stretch of US 70 from just north of Lenoir City to Dixie-Lee Junction could just revert back to TN 1, making it the second revealed/signed section of it, in addition to the small bit in Sparta.


There is also a signed separate piece of TN 1 in Memphis

https://goo.gl/maps/GvyYbTFzY245EeWP7

hbelkins

Some spot improvements to US 27 in Tennessee could make it, along with the reconstructed KY 92, a viable alternative to long-distance I-75 traffic. There are still some primitive sections of US 27 between I-40 and the state line that could benefit from reconstruction.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

triplemultiplex

Seems like this will have no more success than the 90's version of Knoxville outer bypass.  It's just not a big enough city to justify the expense of such a facility.  Plus, this being Tennessee, it would take 40 years to build the damn thing. :P
The deck is stacked heavily against it.

Might as well get to work on improving what they've got.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

elsmere241

Quote from: hbelkins on January 19, 2023, 11:29:56 AM
Some spot improvements to US 27 in Tennessee could make it, along with the reconstructed KY 92, a viable alternative to long-distance I-75 traffic. There are still some primitive sections of US 27 between I-40 and the state line that could benefit from reconstruction.

One of my fantasy plans from long ago involved upgrading US 27 from Chattanooga north to I-40 as an extension of I-59.

civilengineeringnerd

Quote from: Strider on January 17, 2023, 10:05:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 17, 2023, 09:07:41 PM
Quote from: BlueRidge on January 17, 2023, 08:34:50 PM
More than just cost, it was met with stiff local opposition.

https://archive.knoxnews.com/news/local/orange-route-axed-tdot-official-says-ep-408196334-358663141.html

The proposed routing was just dumb. Basically a shortcut for thru I-75 traffic, with no benefit to I-40 traffic or local Knoxville traffic.

I can't help but wonder if a highway starting from I-140 and heading east, wrapping around the south side of Knoxville roughly along the TN 168 corridor to form an I-40 bypass, would be just as practical with more benefit to traffic.


Two issues: If you want a highway starting from I-140 and heading east.. it may be so expensive because you have to build maybe one or TWO river bridges (Tennessee and French Board). Bridges are not cheap.

I don't know what it is like in that area, but I am pretty sure there will be opposition as well.
ngl, thats why we can't get traffic problems resolved. opposition will be swift to form for doing any project, but they also want to get to work faster. probably why some state DOTs basically started ignoring the opposition, even if it was legitimate, just to move a project forward.
Every once in awhile declare peace! it confuses the hell outta your enemies!

civilengineeringnerd

Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 19, 2023, 12:55:45 PM
Seems like this will have no more success than the 90's version of Knoxville outer bypass.  It's just not a big enough city to justify the expense of such a facility.  Plus, this being Tennessee, it would take 40 years to build the damn thing. :P
The deck is stacked heavily against it.

Might as well get to work on improving what they've got.
what lawmakers need to do is have a proposed gas tax that increases with inflation.
that way, more projects can be funded even through the life of the project and the gas tax would need to be higher as well, at least 20 cents higher. the problem is that there will be stiff opposition to any gas tax increases so the state would need to provide incentives, instead of basically telling people "we have a lot of projects that are underfunded and a lot of growth to keep up with and you expect us to go with the current gas tax rate somehow when we have alot more expensive road projects that need to be done throughout the state? either pay tolls, pay the gas increases or you can leave the state of tennessee." because at the very least it would basically tell citizens that if you want roads, either learn to pay a toll or pay more in gas taxes, because projects ain't free.
Every once in awhile declare peace! it confuses the hell outta your enemies!

hbelkins

Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on February 12, 2023, 09:16:51 PM
Quote from: Strider on January 17, 2023, 10:05:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 17, 2023, 09:07:41 PM
Quote from: BlueRidge on January 17, 2023, 08:34:50 PM
More than just cost, it was met with stiff local opposition.

https://archive.knoxnews.com/news/local/orange-route-axed-tdot-official-says-ep-408196334-358663141.html

The proposed routing was just dumb. Basically a shortcut for thru I-75 traffic, with no benefit to I-40 traffic or local Knoxville traffic.

I can't help but wonder if a highway starting from I-140 and heading east, wrapping around the south side of Knoxville roughly along the TN 168 corridor to form an I-40 bypass, would be just as practical with more benefit to traffic.


Two issues: If you want a highway starting from I-140 and heading east.. it may be so expensive because you have to build maybe one or TWO river bridges (Tennessee and French Board). Bridges are not cheap.

I don't know what it is like in that area, but I am pretty sure there will be opposition as well.
ngl, thats why we can't get traffic problems resolved. opposition will be swift to form for doing any project, but they also want to get to work faster. probably why some state DOTs basically started ignoring the opposition, even if it was legitimate, just to move a project forward.

When states ignore opposing voices, it just leads to lawsuits saying the concerns were ignored.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

adventurernumber1

After looking at the Wikipedia page for Hardin Valley, this is not good news for a prospective bypass going through that area on the west side of Knoxville. Apparently growth is very high, and the population is rapidly increasing. At this rate, even if an interstate bypass never happens, it looks like Hardin Valley itself might need a new arterial(s) in the not-too-distant future to keep up with its own local growth.

I had never really heard about the I-475/TN 475 proposal until now, but that is really interesting. Ideally, that would definitely be useful but of course in the real world things like finances, topography, and opposition certainly make it a much more formidable task. Two major 2dis being concurrent for a fairly significant length, and additionally within a growing and sprawling metro area is the perfect storm for congestion, which will probably only get worse. At the very least, widenings on I-75/I-40 where needed are certainly in order. No matter which side of the Knoxville area a prospective bypass is built, topography will be a struggle to some extent, as there are ridges galore all across the region.

The I-140 extension is also very good, even without the context of a greater Knoxville bypass. I-40/TN 66/US 441 will still be hard to compete with as a popular route from the Knoxville area to the Smokies, even after the I-140 extension is complete, as US 321 is still largely a twisty two-lane road east of Maryville, and this would be a hard thing to change as the topography is even more intense in this area with many mountains.
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