Continuity of I-87, I-90, and the Thruway in Albany

[vdeane]

^ And to expand on what kalvado said earlier, here where people say "i-90" they mean free 90.  Not the Thruway.  That's separate.  Similarly, I-87 and the Northway are used somewhat interchangeably (but not completely... Northway is more common for NB, I-87 for SB), with the Thruway portion being separate (part of why I-87 and I-90 each having three sets of exit numbers doesn't confuse locals... nobody thinks of them as continuous routes).  I can't say I've ever heard "I-85", though.

I have heard "route" around Rochester, but come to think of it, mainly among people who are boomers or older.  Maybe it's generational.  Or maybe it's because most of my living family is boomers.  Hard to say.  But just the number certainly is common too.

This post re-titled as part of a thread split.  --J N Winkler

[roadman65]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

[kalvado]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

[roadman65]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

I-87 is continuous, but the the interstate is got three different named roads with one of them being the Thruway that continues onto I-90. I-90 is continuous over 24-61 on the Thruway, the free unnamed part around Albany, and from B1- Mass Pike on the Berkshire Section.

In New York many named expressways are more prominent over the numbers especially these two. The others, I-81, I-84, I-86,  and I-88 are the only people refer by number and in those routes the exit numbers correspond to the route numbers.

I can see the logic in the three sequences of exit numbers on both I-87 and I-90 though as people see I-87 as the Major Deegan, the Thruway, and the Northway. I-90 is the Thruway, I-90, and the Berkshire Thruway. Being they are seen as separate entities, their ext numbers don't become so confusing.

[Rothman]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

[kalvado]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

[roadman65]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

Are you saying that Albany is like Breezewood?  Apparently not.

[kalvado]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

Are you saying that Albany is like Breezewood?  Apparently not.

then what is continuous in your world? You do have to take an exit and go through some loops to get from I-87 to I-87. Until recently, you had to slow down to 5 MPH to do that as well.
You don't have to do anything more than choose a proper lane to stay on a Thruway - and that is a truly continuous one for me. Or, rather, do you think I-87 from NYC continues as I-90 Thruway or as I-87 to Montreal? Or both?

[Rothman]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

Are you saying that Albany is like Breezewood?  Apparently not.

then what is continuous in your world? You do have to take an exit and go through some loops to get from I-87 to I-87. Until recently, you had to slow down to 5 MPH to do that as well.
You don't have to do anything more than choose a proper lane to stay on a Thruway - and that is a truly continuous one for me. Or, rather, do you think I-87 from NYC continues as I-90 Thruway or as I-87 to Montreal? Or both?

The routes follow the ramps...just like any other Interstates that have to exit...

[kalvado]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

Are you saying that Albany is like Breezewood?  Apparently not.

then what is continuous in your world? You do have to take an exit and go through some loops to get from I-87 to I-87. Until recently, you had to slow down to 5 MPH to do that as well.
You don't have to do anything more than choose a proper lane to stay on a Thruway - and that is a truly continuous one for me. Or, rather, do you think I-87 from NYC continues as I-90 Thruway or as I-87 to Montreal? Or both?

The routes follow the ramps...just like any other Interstates that have to exit...

Formal definition vs common sense, you know. If you see a straight Thruway - don't believe your stupid eyes....

[Rothman]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

Are you saying that Albany is like Breezewood?  Apparently not.

then what is continuous in your world? You do have to take an exit and go through some loops to get from I-87 to I-87. Until recently, you had to slow down to 5 MPH to do that as well.
You don't have to do anything more than choose a proper lane to stay on a Thruway - and that is a truly continuous one for me. Or, rather, do you think I-87 from NYC continues as I-90 Thruway or as I-87 to Montreal? Or both?

The routes follow the ramps...just like any other Interstates that have to exit...

Formal definition vs common sense, you know. If you see a straight Thruway - don't believe your stupid eyes....

So...you meant continuous...pavement?

Still doesn't make sense to me, even with how I-90 exits and re-enters the Thruway.

Even the casual traveler in NY says "90 goes that way" or "The Northway is that way," treating the routes as continuous, even though they exit off.

[J N Winkler]

Here's one way of putting it:  I-87 and I-90 in New York are continuous but not TOTSO-free.

This differs from the situation in Breezewood, where the "To" I-70 signing suggests that the Interstate is discontinuous along the surface-road segment of US 30 between the Pennsylvania Turnpike ramps and the tee connection with free I-70 just to the west.

Factors to be considered include:

*  Persistence of access control (abutters have access at Breezewood, but not at any of the TOTSO junctions in Albany)

*  Existence of traffic control signs or signals requiring stops some or all of the time, otherwise than in connection with toll plazas, railroad crossings, or incident management

*  Physical extents of the roadway(s) to which the route designation applies

*  Signing (can be tricky to interpret in states that:  restrict "To" to certain use cases such as surface road connections to freeways; have policies that mandate, or forbid, its use with overlaps; have no consistent policy; do not consistently follow any policies that do exist)

[roadman65]

How did we go from Interstate Business loops to defining a continuous interstate?

[roadman65]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

Are you saying that Albany is like Breezewood?  Apparently not.

then what is continuous in your world? You do have to take an exit and go through some loops to get from I-87 to I-87. Until recently, you had to slow down to 5 MPH to do that as well.
You don't have to do anything more than choose a proper lane to stay on a Thruway - and that is a truly continuous one for me. Or, rather, do you think I-87 from NYC continues as I-90 Thruway or as I-87 to Montreal? Or both?

Although this should be moved via moderator to the New York thread, to answer the last question. The freeway itself is continuous with I-90, but the designation is continuous to the Northway to Montreal. I-87 NB and I-90 WB are not one continuous Route even though the Thruway it's aligned on is.

[Rothman]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

Are you saying that Albany is like Breezewood?  Apparently not.

then what is continuous in your world? You do have to take an exit and go through some loops to get from I-87 to I-87. Until recently, you had to slow down to 5 MPH to do that as well.
You don't have to do anything more than choose a proper lane to stay on a Thruway - and that is a truly continuous one for me. Or, rather, do you think I-87 from NYC continues as I-90 Thruway or as I-87 to Montreal? Or both?

Although this should be moved via moderator to the New York thread, to answer the last question. The freeway itself is continuous with I-90, but the designation is continuous to the Northway to Montreal. I-87 NB and I-90 WB are not one continuous Route even though the Thruway it's aligned on is.

I don't see this as the case.  A route is just a designation and driving through the interchanges isn't like Breezewood at all.

Winkler has it right.

[vdeane]

It's not Breezewood, but it definitely feels like getting on a different road.  Exit 24 is treated like ramps even for I-90, where it's fairly straight and traversable at 65.  There isn't even signage delineating where 65 ends and 55 begins (and vice-versa), but there is a "ramp 45 mph" sign, further reinforcing this (IMO that was fine when there was a toll barrier making it obvious where the road reverted to NYSDOT from NYSTA, but there really should be such a sign now, since it is technically mainline).  Locals also tend to think "I-87 = Northway", "I-90 = free 90", "Thruway = Thruway", to the point where traffic reporters will refer to "I-90, 787, the Northway, and the Thruway".

[kalvado]

Here's one way of putting it:  I-87 and I-90 in New York are continuous but not TOTSO-free.

This differs from the situation in Breezewood, where the "To" I-70 signing suggests that the Interstate is discontinuous along the surface-road segment of US 30 between the Pennsylvania Turnpike ramps and the tee connection with free I-70 just to the west.

Factors to be considered include:

*  Persistence of access control (abutters have access at Breezewood, but not at any of the TOTSO junctions in Albany)

*  Existence of traffic control signs or signals requiring stops some or all of the time, otherwise than in connection with toll plazas, railroad crossings, or incident management

*  Physical extents of the roadway(s) to which the route designation applies

*  Signing (can be tricky to interpret in states that:  restrict "To" to certain use cases such as surface road connections to freeways; have policies that mandate, or forbid, its use with overlaps; have no consistent policy; do not consistently follow any policies that do exist)

So an average 3DI-2DI interchange satisfies 3 out of 4 requirements, and it's only signage that tells you which way the road actually continues?

[ran4sh]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

Are you saying that Albany is like Breezewood?  Apparently not.

then what is continuous in your world? You do have to take an exit and go through some loops to get from I-87 to I-87. Until recently, you had to slow down to 5 MPH to do that as well.
You don't have to do anything more than choose a proper lane to stay on a Thruway - and that is a truly continuous one for me. Or, rather, do you think I-87 from NYC continues as I-90 Thruway or as I-87 to Montreal? Or both?

So, in your opinion, I-10 is not continuous from the West Coast to the East Coast because there are interchanges which require exiting to stay on I-10.

Plus a bunch of other examples (I-55, I-75, etc)

[roadman65]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

Are you saying that Albany is like Breezewood?  Apparently not.

then what is continuous in your world? You do have to take an exit and go through some loops to get from I-87 to I-87. Until recently, you had to slow down to 5 MPH to do that as well.
You don't have to do anything more than choose a proper lane to stay on a Thruway - and that is a truly continuous one for me. Or, rather, do you think I-87 from NYC continues as I-90 Thruway or as I-87 to Montreal? Or both?

Although this should be moved via moderator to the New York thread, to answer the last question. The freeway itself is continuous with I-90, but the designation is continuous to the Northway to Montreal. I-87 NB and I-90 WB are not one continuous Route even though the Thruway it's aligned on is.

I don't see this as the case.  A route is just a designation and driving through the interchanges isn't like Breezewood at all.

Winkler has it right.

That's what I just said.

To answer the other guys question, the freeway known as the Thruway is continuous as is the designations through the ramps are.

[kalvado]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

Are you saying that Albany is like Breezewood?  Apparently not.

then what is continuous in your world? You do have to take an exit and go through some loops to get from I-87 to I-87. Until recently, you had to slow down to 5 MPH to do that as well.
You don't have to do anything more than choose a proper lane to stay on a Thruway - and that is a truly continuous one for me. Or, rather, do you think I-87 from NYC continues as I-90 Thruway or as I-87 to Montreal? Or both?

So, in your opinion, I-10 is not continuous from the West Coast to the East Coast because there are interchanges which require exiting to stay on I-10.

Plus a bunch of other examples (I-55, I-75, etc)

As one of my friends likes to say, "good enough for government work"

[roadman65]

In New York on both I-87 and I-90, people know they are continuous routes, but think the exit numbers for each individual freeway references to the name of each freeway and not to those numbers.

Neither I-90 nor I-87  are continuous in NY.   Thruway is continuous, though.

Where are the gaps?

in Albany, apparently. 

Are you saying that Albany is like Breezewood?  Apparently not.

then what is continuous in your world? You do have to take an exit and go through some loops to get from I-87 to I-87. Until recently, you had to slow down to 5 MPH to do that as well.
You don't have to do anything more than choose a proper lane to stay on a Thruway - and that is a truly continuous one for me. Or, rather, do you think I-87 from NYC continues as I-90 Thruway or as I-87 to Montreal? Or both?

So, in your opinion, I-10 is not continuous from the West Coast to the East Coast because there are interchanges which require exiting to stay on I-10.

Plus a bunch of other examples (I-55, I-75, etc)

Or Eastern I-76 in OH and PA.