Massachusetts

[shadyjay]

Let's not forget the fact that originally there was no freeway between I-95 in Mansfield and MA 24.  MA 25 existed from MA 24, east towards Buzzards Bay.  It was only later that I-495 was built between I-95 and MA 24, then extended later replacing MA 25 only to I-195, then keeping MA 25 beyond.  IIRC, the reasoning behind it was so that the interstates could end at each other (I-195 and I-495).  Some of the same logic was used for the renumbering of CT 52 to become I-395, so that I-84 had a place to end, when it was discovered Providence would not be reachable.

But, yes, I agree, something should replace that short MA 25 section.  I'd like to see a straight shot east to MA 3 and I-195/MA 25 all become I-82, west to Hartford and I-93 replacing MA 3 down to the canal... but that's a topic for another forum subcategory.

[RobbieL2415]

Let's not forget the fact that originally there was no freeway between I-95 in Mansfield and MA 24.  MA 25 existed from MA 24, east towards Buzzards Bay.  It was only later that I-495 was built between I-95 and MA 24, then extended later replacing MA 25 only to I-195, then keeping MA 25 beyond.  IIRC, the reasoning behind it was so that the interstates could end at each other (I-195 and I-495).  Some of the same logic was used for the renumbering of CT 52 to become I-395, so that I-84 had a place to end, when it was discovered Providence would not be reachable.

But, yes, I agree, something should replace that short MA 25 section.  I'd like to see a straight shot east to MA 3 and I-195/MA 25 all become I-82, west to Hartford and I-93 replacing MA 3 down to the canal... but that's a topic for another forum subcategory.

If the new canal crossing(s) are built to Interstate standards, then I see no reason why either I-195 or 495 couldn't follow the Bourne Bridge to the other side.

@Alps, IIRC that was the intent, to build MA 25 to Interstate standards in the off chance an Interstate was ever built on-Cape.

[dkblake]

If the new canal crossing(s) are built to Interstate standards, then I see no reason why either I-195 or 495 couldn't follow the Bourne Bridge to the other side.

And then immediately end at the Bourne Rotary

I had always thought that the reason for MA 25 there was because of a land dispute along the present route, so 25 was continued on to somewhere past the 195/495 junction and then the interstate designations ended at a "logical" place. I've long thought that there's no reason 25 couldn't be flipped to one or the other, and the interstate designation could easily end at the exit just before the Bourne Bridge with MA 28 then the official route going over the bridge. I-195 makes the most sense to me since 25 is already east-west and changing the designation wouldn't require redoing all the 495 mile markers, but either makes sense.

[Ben114]

If the new canal crossing(s) are built to Interstate standards, then I see no reason why either I-195 or 495 couldn't follow the Bourne Bridge to the other side.

And then immediately end at the Bourne Rotary

I had always thought that the reason for MA 25 there was because of a land dispute along the present route, so 25 was continued on to somewhere past the 195/495 junction and then the interstate designations ended at a "logical" place. I've long thought that there's no reason 25 couldn't be flipped to one or the other, and the interstate designation could easily end at the exit just before the Bourne Bridge with MA 28 then the official route going over the bridge. I-195 makes the most sense to me since 25 is already east-west and changing the designation wouldn't require redoing all the 495 mile markers, but either makes sense.

I believe that there was a land dispute for the routing of MA 25, which is why it takes that long curve through Bourne.

However, the MA 25 designation was originally from MA 24 to the Bourne Rotary (same reason why one lane of I-495 goes over MA 24 and the other goes under). When the highway was constructed south from I-95 to MA 24, the I-495 designation was extended south to I-195, most likely to end the interstate highways at each other.

[kramie13]

It just occurred to me that if Massachusetts did the following:

1. Re-designate MA 25 as I-195
2. Re-milepost I-195 so that it continues Rhode Island's mile markers (measuring distance from the I-95/I-195 interchange in Providence)
3. Re-number I-195's (and former MA 25's) exit numbers to reflect the "new" mile markers.

This would result in the exit for US 6 before the Bourne Bridge becoming Exit 53.  Exit 1 on US 6 after the Sagamore bridge is being renumbered to Exit 55.  This would then provide some sort of (albeit unofficial) "exit number continuity", and could have helped alleviate the confusion and uproar about renumbering US 6 along the Cape.

[Pete from Boston]

The utility of an Interstate ending at an Interstate is overstated, IMHO.

[RobbieL2415]

If the new canal crossing(s) are built to Interstate standards, then I see no reason why either I-195 or 495 couldn't follow the Bourne Bridge to the other side.

And then immediately end at the Bourne Rotary

I had always thought that the reason for MA 25 there was because of a land dispute along the present route, so 25 was continued on to somewhere past the 195/495 junction and then the interstate designations ended at a "logical" place. I've long thought that there's no reason 25 couldn't be flipped to one or the other, and the interstate designation could easily end at the exit just before the Bourne Bridge with MA 28 then the official route going over the bridge. I-195 makes the most sense to me since 25 is already east-west and changing the designation wouldn't require redoing all the 495 mile markers, but either makes sense.

I believe that there was a land dispute for the routing of MA 25, which is why it takes that long curve through Bourne.

However, the MA 25 designation was originally from MA 24 to the Bourne Rotary (same reason why one lane of I-495 goes over MA 24 and the other goes under). When the highway was constructed south from I-95 to MA 24, the I-495 designation was extended south to I-195, most likely to end the interstate highways at each other.

The dispute was over the cranberry bog that MA 25 now circles around. MassHighway wanted to cut right through it but the owner through a fit. So they just went around it.

[RobbieL2415]

The utility of an Interstate ending at an Interstate is overstated, IMHO.

If I-587 (NY) can end at non-Interstates in both directions, then I-195 can end at one on one end.

[Alps]

It just occurred to me that if Massachusetts did the following:

1. Re-designate MA 25 as I-195
2. Re-milepost I-195 so that it continues Rhode Island's mile markers (measuring distance from the I-95/I-195 interchange in Providence)
3. Re-number I-195's (and former MA 25's) exit numbers to reflect the "new" mile markers.

This would result in the exit for US 6 before the Bourne Bridge becoming Exit 53.  Exit 1 on US 6 after the Sagamore bridge is being renumbered to Exit 55.  This would then provide some sort of (albeit unofficial) "exit number continuity", and could have helped alleviate the confusion and uproar about renumbering US 6 along the Cape.

If there was a freeway connecting the two bridges, I might buy it, but this is radically stretching the idea to get things to "work out" with numbering. I don't think it'll quiet the uproar. People hate change.

[hotdogPi]

What if the numbers began at 0 or 1 but were still mile-based? Knowing the distance to the canal is actually useful.

[Rothman]

The utility of an Interstate ending at an Interstate is overstated, IMHO.

If I-587 (NY) can end at non-Interstates in both directions, then I-195 can end at one on one end.

That's not how it works.  FHWA -- especially the NY Division -- has ramped up following the "rules" over the past 15 years.  This includes that segments of new interstate must connect to existing interstates before installing shields.  I-587 is simply grandfathered in (and I-180 in WY, for that matter).

FHWA needed something to do when the interstate system was essentially built out...they've found their calling.

[bob7374]

MassDOT placed an advertisement today (12/12) for bids on the US 3 Sign Replacement contract (Project Number 608574), Burlington to Tyngsborough. The winning bidder to be announced on Jan. 26, 2021. The CommBuys webpage for the project is available (though nothing but the Notice to contractors is posted at this time) at:
https://www.commbuys.com/bso/external/bidDetail.sdo?docId=BD-21-1030-0H100-0H002-57063&external=true&parentUrl=bid

[TheGrassGuy]

Anyone familiar with the Greenfield area know what this trail system is? Google Maps, and even AllTrails, are not very helpful.

[SectorZ]

Anyone familiar with the Greenfield area know what this trail system is? Google Maps, and even AllTrails, are not very helpful.

I don't believe there is a trail system there. You can't even park in that lot (though everyone does to go on the bridge).

[Rothman]

Anyone familiar with the Greenfield area know what this trail system is? Google Maps, and even AllTrails, are not very helpful.

Mohawk Trail refers to the road.  Like someone else says, people park here to have fun on the much-beloved French King Bridge (if a semi crosses, you can get bucked off).

[shadyjay]

I don't believe there is a trail system there. You can't even park in that lot (though everyone does to go on the bridge).

According to AllTrails, there is.  It goes up to French King Rock.

[empirestate]

I don't believe there is a trail system there. You can't even park in that lot (though everyone does to go on the bridge).

According to AllTrails, there is.  It goes up to French King Rock.

Looks to be a section of the Connecticut River Greenway State Park.

[jp the roadgeek]

What if the numbers began at 0 or 1 but were still mile-based? Knowing the distance to the canal is actually useful.

Then you'd have to slap a (silent) state route designation on it, unless an exemption is made for secondary mile markers.  This is the same thing that NYSDOT will try to maintain with the Northway when it converts I-87.

[Alps]

What if the numbers began at 0 or 1 but were still mile-based? Knowing the distance to the canal is actually useful.

Then you'd have to slap a (silent) state route designation on it, unless an exemption is made for secondary mile markers.  This is the same thing that NYSDOT will try to maintain with the Northway when it converts I-87.

If I were the FHWA, my response would be "they can learn the new mile markers".

[bob7374]

What if the numbers began at 0 or 1 but were still mile-based? Knowing the distance to the canal is actually useful.

Then you'd have to slap a (silent) state route designation on it, unless an exemption is made for secondary mile markers.  This is the same thing that NYSDOT will try to maintain with the Northway when it converts I-87.

If I were the FHWA, my response would be "they can learn the new mile markers".

I sent an comment to MassDOT about the possibility of using Mid-Cape Highway mile markers when the exit renumbering project was announced in the fall of 2019, here's my question and their answer:
Has anyone thought of a compromise of assigning milepost based numbers, but using the Mid-Cape Highway miles instead of US 6? If the assigning of mileposts to a named highway would be difficult, perhaps you could create a new route to run concurrently with US 6 from Route 3 in Bourne to Route 28 in Orleans and use that highway's mileage for the exit numbers.
The MassDOT Response:
"MassDOT is considering these possible alternatives to using the US 6 mile marker numbers for the Mid-Cape Highway exits.  If either alternative were considered acceptable to Cape Cod officials, AASHTO and/or FHWA approval would be required before any changes could be made.  We also note that, if the Mid-Cape Highway were designated as a different route from US 6, it would likely begin at the Sagamore Bridge, and not run concurrently with the section of US 6 Scenic Highway between Route 25 and the bridge."

[roadman]

MassDOT placed an advertisement today (12/12) for bids on the US 3 Sign Replacement contract (Project Number 608574), Burlington to Westford. The winning bidder to be announced on Jan. 26, 2021. The CommBuys webpage for the project has not been up as of this morning.

Minor correction Bob.  The project limits for 608574 are actually Burlington to Tyngsborough.

[Great Lakes Roads]

MassDOT placed an advertisement today (12/12) for bids on the US 3 Sign Replacement contract (Project Number 608574), Burlington to Westford. The winning bidder to be announced on Jan. 26, 2021. The CommBuys webpage for the project has not been up as of this morning.

Minor correction Bob.  The project limits for 608574 are actually Burlington to Tyngsborough.

And are these signs going to include the renumbered exits like they are doing everywhere else in the state?

[shadyjay]

And are these signs going to include the renumbered exits like they are doing everywhere else in the state?

Given its still going to be at least a year (if not more) before new signs go up on US 3, and given the fact that the exit renumbering project is planning on being completed sometime late summer/fall 2021, then I'm guessing the old signs will get new numbers.  And most definitely the new signs, when fabricated for the US 3 sign replacement project, will have the new numbers. 

[roadman]

And are these signs going to include the renumbered exits like they are doing everywhere else in the state?

Given its still going to be at least a year (if not more) before new signs go up on US 3, and given the fact that the exit renumbering project is planning on being completed sometime late summer/fall 2021, then I'm guessing the old signs will get new numbers.  And most definitely the new signs, when fabricated for the US 3 sign replacement project, will have the new numbers. 

You are correct on both counts.

[mariethefoxy]

they really need to add in advanced signs for Spit Brook Road, like that exit shows up really quickly after the state line and there's no advanced warning its coming up.