I wasn't sure where to put this (and this is kind of difficult to search for, so I'm afraid I might be starting a new topic unnecessarily), but given where I live, there are tons of mini-peninsulas off Delmarva (and surrounding portions of the mainland US) that take a ridiculous amount of time to get to from points that are, as the crow flies, very close to them.
Of course, I am aware that building a bridge or running a ferry between these points is likely pointless, but I just was thinking about this when I was talking to a Verizon representative who said I could go to a store in Camden DE (5 miles, 10 minutes from me) or I could go to Bridgeton NJ (25 miles, but 90 minutes from me).
I'm sure there are other places in the US and around the world with these situations, so please feel free to share some.
Here are some examples:
3301 MD-18, Stevensville, MD 21666 to Ingleside Rd, Rock Hall, MD 21661 (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.0376472,-76.30284/39.0459513,-76.2347072/@39.0398374,-76.267654,13.25z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0): 3.7 miles as the crow flies, 61 miles by road
Abbey Point Rd, Aberdeen, MD 21001 to 24301-24373 Still Pond Neck Rd, Worton, MD 21678 (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.3647111,-76.2133852/39.3479202,-76.1293963/@39.3287915,-76.3081563,12.25z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0): 4.6 miles as the crow flies, 68 miles by road
3329 Lighthouse Blvd, Lusby, MD 20657 to 3470-3446 Meekins Neck Rd, Church Creek, MD 21622 (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.3856663,-76.3831107/38.3970684,-76.2765134/@38.4048493,-76.3222314,12.75z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0): 5.9 miles as the crow flies, 131 miles by road
6 Beach Ave, Smyrna, DE 19977 to County Rd 601, Bridgeton, NJ 08302 (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.330133,-75.4721275/39.356255,-75.3375134/@39.3292295,-75.4097852,12.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0): 7.4 miles as the crow flies, 83 miles by road
9120 MD-363, Deal Island, MD 21821 to Easley Rd, Dameron, MD 20628 (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.1340739,-75.9522598/38.1337736,-76.3309583/@38.1574856,-76.2131492,11.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0): 20.4 miles as the crow flies, 200 miles by road
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/44.0502651,-83.5807501/43.9163674,-83.4013055/@44.0162699,-83.7175734,11.07z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0 (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/44.0502651,-83.5807501/43.9163674,-83.4013055/@44.0162699,-83.7175734,11.07z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0)
5613 Bay Ave, Au Gres, MI 48703 to Sunset Blvd, Pigeon, MI 48755 (12.85 miles as the crow flies, 105 miles by road)
Less than 100 feet as the crow flies, 69.8 miles driving:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/32.6122107,-116.1863162/32.6120173,-116.1863018/@32.5839319,-116.5539302,11z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!4m1!3e0
Marinette WI to Egg Harbor WI, 16.69 as the crow flies over the bay of Green Bay and 113 miles by highways https://www.distance-cities.com/distance-egg-harbor-wi-to-marinette-wi
Quote from: 1 on February 13, 2019, 10:47:09 PM
Less than 100 feet as the crow flies, 69.8 miles driving:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/32.6122107,-116.1863162/32.6120173,-116.1863018/@32.5839319,-116.5539302,11z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!4m1!3e0
Those international borders sure are unforgiving!
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Wrigley,+NT,+Canada/Tsiigehtchic,+NT,+Canada/@59.4663362,-145.1345477,4z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m15!4m14!1m5!1m1!1s0x53df6f9d14b4d769:0x8e8626b65cdd3759!2m2!1d-123.4547809!2d63.221472!1m5!1m1!1s0x516acf12de77e3ff:0xcf0d4be6c660176a!2m2!1d-133.7429146!2d67.4418167!3e0!4e1
Wrigley, Northwest Territories to Tsiigehtchic, Northwest Territories (on the Dempster Highway, near its closest point to Wrigley): 1671 miles by road (via British Columbia and Yukon Territory, including four short ferry crossings/winter ice bridges), about 415 miles as the crow flies. The disparity would be even greater if the starting point were Fort Good Hope NT (about 165 miles from Tsiigehtchic as the crow flies) rather than Wrigley. But Google Maps doesn't recognize the open (for now) ~305-mile winter road between those two communities (http://www.dot.gov.nt.ca/Highways/Highway-Conditions), which would make the total road distance from Fort Good Hope to Tsiigehtchic almost 2000 miles.
There is not even a winter road between Fort Good Hope and Tsiigehtchic. Someday, there may be a complete winter road connection, or even an all-season road, allowing people in the northwestern corner of NT to drive to the rest of NT without the long detour through BC and YT. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.
I guess it depends on how strictly we want to interpret "close" :
Thunder Bay to Copper Harbor, MI
-89 miles by air (90 minute drive roughly)
-472 miles by road (9 1/2 hour drive)
Fresno to Mammoth Lakes. The issue is the massive crest of the Sierras splitting a relatively short geographic distance. Tioga Pass is closed for half the year which means CA 99, CA 178, CA 14 and US 395 is the quickest route by road.
I'm not sure if this counts as "geography," but here are two roads separated by about 250 feet, with a travel distance of 7.2 miles.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2F9s41s3.png&hash=aeb9043edbe5ae4f1a193fe463e345627ba267b7)
I once tweeted I was only 9 miles away from Gavarnie, France in a straight line, but due to no roads crossing that part of the Pyrenees it is a 101 mile drive and several mountain passes (instead of just one) from Torla, Spain. The French did their part, Spain didn't. Benasque, Spain to Bagneres-de-Luchon, France is another nice detour due to unbuilt border crossings.
Edit to add links to the routes:
Torla-Ordesa to Gavarnie (https://www.google.es/maps/dir/Torla-Ordesa,+22376,+Huesca/Gavarnie,+65120,+Francia/@42.818502,-0.6725952,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m15!4m14!1m5!1m1!1s0xd57f97ff7df695b:0x71c631ca26f2301c!2m2!1d-0.1126542!2d42.6286775!1m5!1m1!1s0xd57e29beb90fb3d:0xf0e9037e9414b0b4!2m2!1d-0.00941!2d42.732219!3e0!4e1). Currently it is even longer (115 miles) as the French Col d'Aubisque is closed for the Winter
Benasque to Bagneres-de-Luchon (https://www.google.es/maps/dir/Benasque,+22440,+Huesca/Bagn%C3%83%C2%A8res-de-Luchon,+Francia/@42.6140446,0.3497621,10z/data=!4m15!4m14!1m5!1m1!1s0x12a879337bde843d:0x8db65591a6f2a6aa!2m2!1d0.5228286!2d42.6042858!1m5!1m1!1s0x12a861f104f68b5b:0x387ece5e3eeee589!2m2!1d0.592943!2d42.788963!3e0!4e1), 70 road miles for 13 air miles.
Grand Canyon North rim to South rim.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 14, 2019, 12:09:12 AM
I'm not sure if this counts as "geography," but here are two roads separated by about 250 feet, with a travel distance of 7.2 miles.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2F9s41s3.png&hash=aeb9043edbe5ae4f1a193fe463e345627ba267b7)
"Planned community"
Kinshasa to Brazzaville - 4km across the Congo taking the ferry (and less at other places), but the ferry that could take vehicles has been out of action for a long time.
So you can drive ~1330km (and via Angola) taking the only bridge across the Congo (oddly the most downstream crossing of the entire river is the one that's not a ferry). Or driving 240km (much less by the river itself - swamps in the way) downstream (DRC side) to the next ferry across, which can fit one (small) truck, or 2 cars, and makes the mile-long crossing just 4 times a day in each direction - oh, and on the ROC side drive on a road google doesn't have (the only one that actually goes between the two Congos) apparently it takes a day on it to do 60km.
Either way it's taking multiple days - someone who took the shorter, ferry, route took 6 days (https://tysontravels.wordpress.com/2017/07/26/kinshasa-brazzaville-express-the-congo-to-the-other-congo-july-2017/) to go suburb-suburb (with the crow flies distance being about a mile and a half), and Google's 22 hours (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/-4.297511,15.3198082/-4.2720957,15.2929464/@-5.0060917,13.1174262,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m11!4m10!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d12.2081416!2d-5.6395537!3s0x1a5c2daabff49185:0xe96b0199887a0f49!1m0!2m1!3b1!3e0) for the bridge route assumes 60km/h (~40mph) plus fairly short periods (~30 minutes) at the two borders. That seems a little optimistic, although the road is mostly paved - I'd imagine it would take more than 30 hours + rest/sleep stops: however that's actually going to be quicker than the shorter route with its long stretches of effectively 'off-road' driving (including on supposed roads!) - probably only take 3 or 4 days.
One of the ones that always struck me was Gatlinburg, Tenn., and Cherokee, NC. It's a 33-mile drive across Newfound Gap Parkway in GSMNP, but that's closed to commercial vehicles. I never bothered to figure out how long the detour would be, but it would involve US 321, I-40, US 276 and US 19.
In Kentucky, water has created a few issues where portions of counties are cut off from the rest of the county. There are a couple of instances along Lake Cumberland, plus the infamous Kentucky Bend in the far western part of the state.
Probably not the worst example, but the most annoying to me: Hot Springs, AR to Hot Springs Village, AR is about 12 miles as the crow flies, but a 30-minute drive due to the fact that the trip is on twisting mountain roads.
Quote from: english si on February 14, 2019, 09:20:27 AM
Kinshasa to Brazzaville - 4km across the Congo taking the ferry (and less at other places), but the ferry that could take vehicles has been out of action for a long time.
So you can drive ~1330km (and via Angola) taking the only bridge across the Congo (oddly the most downstream crossing of the entire river is the one that's not a ferry). Or driving 240km (much less by the river itself - swamps in the way) downstream (DRC side) to the next ferry across, which can fit one (small) truck, or 2 cars, and makes the mile-long crossing just 4 times a day in each direction - oh, and on the ROC side drive on a road google doesn't have (the only one that actually goes between the two Congos) apparently it takes a day on it to do 60km.
Either way it's taking multiple days - someone who took the shorter, ferry, route took 6 days (https://tysontravels.wordpress.com/2017/07/26/kinshasa-brazzaville-express-the-congo-to-the-other-congo-july-2017/) to go suburb-suburb (with the crow flies distance being about a mile and a half), and Google's 22 hours (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/-4.297511,15.3198082/-4.2720957,15.2929464/@-5.0060917,13.1174262,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m11!4m10!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d12.2081416!2d-5.6395537!3s0x1a5c2daabff49185:0xe96b0199887a0f49!1m0!2m1!3b1!3e0) for the bridge route assumes 60km/h (~40mph) plus fairly short periods (~30 minutes) at the two borders. That seems a little optimistic, although the road is mostly paved - I'd imagine it would take more than 30 hours + rest/sleep stops: however that's actually going to be quicker than the shorter route with its long stretches of effectively 'off-road' driving (including on supposed roads!) - probably only take 3 or 4 days.
This makes all of my San Jose to Fresno complaints seem like petty whining!
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 14, 2019, 12:09:12 AM
I'm not sure if this counts as "geography," but here are two roads separated by about 250 feet, with a travel distance of 7.2 miles.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2F9s41s3.png&hash=aeb9043edbe5ae4f1a193fe463e345627ba267b7)
This was one of the longer examples, but suburban development is rife with similar situations. What suburbanites don't realize (or don't care about) is that such a lack of a street grid and limited ingress/egress actually increases traffic and the distances they need to drive.
Silverton, CO has two decent ones involving its neighbor towns.
Silverton to Ophir is 9.7 miles by air and 79 miles by a non 4x4 car. (One could argue Ophir isn't much of a town, but Telluride is around the corner with only slightly less or a distance by car.)
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Silverton,+Colorado+81433/Ophir,+Colorado+81426/@37.9824131,-107.9954865,11z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x873ee7f8d43e3f4d:0x68df382eb57dcb3f!2m2!1d-107.6645057!2d37.811941!1m5!1m1!1s0x873eda238ad133b9:0x86219879cfa982c!2m2!1d-107.8325644!2d37.8569392!3e0
Silverton to Lake City is 24.3 miles by air and 160 miles by a non 4x4 car. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Silverton,+Colorado+81433/Lake+City,+Colorado+81235/@38.1471825,-107.7429575,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x873ee7f8d43e3f4d:0x68df382eb57dcb3f!2m2!1d-107.6645057!2d37.811941!1m5!1m1!1s0x873f001ee153bcf1:0x9d2aa26c1fa2d73b!2m2!1d-107.3153335!2d38.0299967!3e0
Quote from: Chris19001 on February 14, 2019, 12:43:58 PM
Silverton, CO has two decent ones involving its neighbor towns.
Silverton to Ophir is 9.7 miles by air and 79 miles by a non 4x4 car. (One could argue Ophir isn't much of a town, but Telluride is around the corner with only slightly less or a distance by car.)
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Silverton,+Colorado+81433/Ophir,+Colorado+81426/@37.9824131,-107.9954865,11z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x873ee7f8d43e3f4d:0x68df382eb57dcb3f!2m2!1d-107.6645057!2d37.811941!1m5!1m1!1s0x873eda238ad133b9:0x86219879cfa982c!2m2!1d-107.8325644!2d37.8569392!3e0
Silverton to Lake City is 24.3 miles by air and 160 miles by a non 4x4 car. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Silverton,+Colorado+81433/Lake+City,+Colorado+81235/@38.1471825,-107.7429575,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x873ee7f8d43e3f4d:0x68df382eb57dcb3f!2m2!1d-107.6645057!2d37.811941!1m5!1m1!1s0x873f001ee153bcf1:0x9d2aa26c1fa2d73b!2m2!1d-107.3153335!2d38.0299967!3e0
I've personally driven Ophir Road without using 4WD. Granted, it was a Jeep Wrangler, but I drove it in normal 2WD the whole way from Ouray to Telluride. (Locals drive it in regular pickups, too.) Imogene Pass coming back into Ophir, of course, definitely required 4WD–
and low gear.
Orient Point NY, on Long Island, to Old Lyme, CT. About 12 miles across the Long Island Sound. 194 miles by car. Yes, there is a ferry to New London, but if the ferry schedule doesn't work for you, you're looking at 4+ hours of driving and having to go through NYC.
Little Compton to Middletown (both RI).
6 miles by air
22 miles by road
Routing around Tampa Bay doesn’t seem all that bad, really. A trip of 5.33 miles as the crow flies is a bit less of a drive than I expected, at 42.7 miles.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2Fftzjnl.png&hash=855c588e56b576355f337a2d1216651548c79131)
I've lived in a lot of places where trips are much longer due to geography. Getting from Green Bay to anywhere in Lower Michigan or as previously stated just getting from one side of Green Bay to the other can be a pain. In St Louis, the further you are from a bridge the longer it will take to get to the opposite bank of the Mississippi River in Illinois. Getting across the Missouri River can also be frustrating. The Hampton Roads area of Virginia is also separated by several bodies of water; I lived maybe a half-mile from the Midtown Tunnel but it would be a couple mile journey to drive there because of Scott Creek. I now live in Palm Springs and getting over the mountains anywhere in California is usually a challenge even when a road is available. However, the strangest was when I was stationed in Rota, Spain. It wasn't too bad if you had access to the base. But if you wanted to get from Rota to Puerto de Santa Maria, you added a good ten miles to the trip going around the base. The distance between the two gates was less than two miles by road inside the base.
When I lived in Maynardville, TN my girlfriend at the time lived in LaFollette, TN. It was 20 miles as the crow flies, but 43 miles by road because there were no roads that went over Norris Lake.
Anywhere where a bridge has been closed or demolished.
Quote from: Takumi on February 14, 2019, 08:10:50 PM
Anywhere where a bridge has been closed or demolished.
Also known as mile down the street from my house.
Many trip pairs around Chesapeake Bay.
One example, St. Michaels (parents' residence) on the Eastern Shore to Chesapeake Beach on the western shore.
As the crow flies -- 18.1 miles
By road (MD-33, US-50, MD-2, MD-260) -- 75.7 miles
Does Cape May, NJ to Lewes, DE count? Theoretically a bridge-tunnel could be built but the NIMBYS say no.
Coos Bay to Roseburg is 100 miles by road and about 45 in a straight line. There is a close to straight line road between the two areas but it is a stagecoach routing built around 1880. It has gravel sections, lots of curves and the Coast Range to deal with but since this is the 21st century. overcoming these obstacles is not a big deal in terms of engineering.
Why was the route not developed when the automobile became prominent in the early 20th century? Because the towns that came along after the stagecoach route was pushed through set themselves up along the Coquille River. That led to the highway connecting them since no population centers ever came into being along the stagecoach route.
After WWII, the Port Of Coos Bay was this planet's largest wood products shipping port. Logs, lumber and wood chips flowed out of here like oil. Roseburg and the surrounding environs was home to a large complex of mills that needed access to the port. With so much truck traffic being forced onto a very crooked narrow SR 42, that was the time to build a new highway along the stagecoach route. This was discussed but never done.
Today a drive to Roseburg and I-5 takes 2 hours. Had a freeway been built between the two cities on the straightest possible path, one could zoom along at 65 MPH and thus reduce the time to 40 minutes max. Imagine how much more productive trucking would be. Imagine how many more tourists would come with a fine road to bring them to the coast. Imagine what the elevated prosperity from a properly placed and built freeway would have brought to our area.
Add in being able to go to Eugene in 100 minutes instead of 130. Grants Pass would have turned from a 3 hour drive minimum to one of 100 minutes, with Medford just 30 more minutes away.
What could have been. Sigh.
Rick
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on February 14, 2019, 09:41:27 PM
Does Cape May, NJ to Lewes, DE count? Theoretically a bridge-tunnel could be built but the NIMBYS say no.
I wasn't really thinking of routes where ferries are available (I was thinking that there can't be any means using a public "road"/ferry/bridge/tunnel directly linking the two locations).
Quote from: Beltway on February 14, 2019, 09:12:02 PM
Many trip pairs around Chesapeake Bay.
One example, St. Michaels (parents' residence) on the Eastern Shore to Chesapeake Beach on the western shore.
As the crow flies -- 18.1 miles
By road (MD-33, US-50, MD-2, MD-260) -- 75.7 miles
A bad example is how long it takes me to get to Baltimore from Dover. It's a 59 mile route heading west-northwest directly, but the actual route is 94 miles (via the Bay Bridge) and involves heading south by about 15 miles.
I just checked a place closer to Baltimore on the Eastern Shore (Tolchester Beach to Sparrow Point). 11.4 miles direct, 81 miles by road (and involves heading south by 16 miles).
Quote from: ipeters61 on February 14, 2019, 10:02:06 PM
I just checked a place closer to Baltimore on the Eastern Shore (Tolchester Beach to Sparrow Point). 11.4 miles direct, 81 miles by road (and involves heading south by 16 miles).
Basically the route of the northern bay bridge that was proposed in the 1930s and in the 1960s.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on February 14, 2019, 09:41:27 PM
Does Cape May, NJ to Lewes, DE count? Theoretically a bridge-tunnel could be built but the NIMBYS say no.
Actually, a crossing has never has truly been proposed for anyone to say No to in the first place.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 14, 2019, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on February 14, 2019, 09:41:27 PM
Does Cape May, NJ to Lewes, DE count? Theoretically a bridge-tunnel could be built but the NIMBYS say no.
Actually, a crossing has never has truly been proposed for anyone to say No to in the first place.
There were some official discussions about such a bridge in the 1970s around the time of casino gambling being authorized in New Jersey. I wonder if an engineering feasibility study was compiled.
Quote from: Beltway on February 14, 2019, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 14, 2019, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on February 14, 2019, 09:41:27 PM
Does Cape May, NJ to Lewes, DE count? Theoretically a bridge-tunnel could be built but the NIMBYS say no.
Actually, a crossing has never has truly been proposed for anyone to say No to in the first place.
There were some official discussions about such a bridge in the 1970s around the time of casino gambling being authorized in New Jersey. I wonder if an engineering feasibility study was compiled.
Beltway, didn't you tell us about the facts in another Topic I made years ago?
iPhone
Quote from: ipeters61 on February 14, 2019, 08:12:40 AM"Planned community"
Planned "communities". There's multiple unconnected ones there, and I think they were designed with deliberate fragmentation even within them - seems Avalon Lakes is a few small neighbourhoods within the development, creating some small potential communities that then have little to do with each other. And the west side of that gap is even branded as loads of little bits - Northwood (which is just Anna Catherine Drive, a loop off, and some wetlands), Kensington at Eastwood, Shoal Point, another one whose name isn't on OSM. And we've not got as far west as the roundabout on Golfway Blvd yet! At least that side has the golf cart tracks as alternatives to the single road, but they only offer a twisty long way around (in the main) and not enough little pathway connections between it and the various little ends that get close, to be of any use.
Quote from: froggie on February 14, 2019, 12:41:11 PMThis was one of the longer examples, but suburban development is rife with similar situations. What suburbanites don't realize (or don't care about) is that such a lack of a street grid and limited ingress/egress actually increases traffic and the distances they need to drive.
But nearer the end of the cul-de-sacs, you don't see hardly any traffic as it's just the traffic for a small number of houses - it's only the wannabe posh people living near the top of the lengthy cul-de-sac that see additional traffic. And designs like this with long distributor roads through the estate that have no/few houses on minimise that. These private estates really are exclusive. :-P
Where these ones fail massively is a lack of walkability (ie paths that make it a quasi-grid for walking or walking and cycling - or, given where we are, how about golf carts). But it is Central Florida, and who walks there? Seriously - it's like its taboo to walk somewhere (walking pointlessly for exercise is allowed early morning, but don't let it be to do an errand at the same time), especially if rich...
Silly example: driving from NYC to SF is 2,902 miles, but "as the crow burrows through the earth" is 2,523 miles: https://planetcalc.com/7725/
What's cool about these notional "gravity trains": if entirely friction-free, they would use no energy -- and any trip would take about 42 minutes, regardless of distance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_train
Quote from: kurumi on February 15, 2019, 11:36:51 AM
Silly example: driving from NYC to SF is 2,902 miles, but "as the crow burrows through the earth" is 2,523 miles: https://planetcalc.com/7725/
What's cool about these notional "gravity trains": if entirely friction-free, they would use no energy -- and any trip would take about 42 minutes, regardless of distance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_train
What a beautiful world this would be/What a glorious time to be free
San Gabriel Canyon
4.2 miles (7 minutes) on closed CA 39, 84.4 miles (1 hr 58 mins) detouring around the closure.
https://goo.gl/maps/qgnDvDRZ86N2
Grand Isle, La to Port Sulphur, La - 24 1/2 miles as the crow flies. 145 miles by car.
(Actually any east-west travel, south of US 90 (and I'll say east of Morgan City), in Louisiana, will require going way out of the way, unless you own an air-boat)
That's an easy one: anywhere in the Bay Area to Las Vegas (and back, of course). S.O.P. involves CA 58 and I-15. This is one NV problem that an extended I-11 won't even come close to solving. Of course, the culprit was, is, and likely will always be the Sierras, compounded by the White Mountains, Death Valley (actually the ranges around its perimeter), and even Mt. Charleston. Absent the absurd original "I-66" proposal from the '80's that was to run along the Sequoia/Kings Canyon delineation line (or under it!), there's little chance any of this will change in the foreseeable future; we'll be schlepping through Barstow if we want to commit acts that are dubious secrets best kept in Vegas!
Quote from: sparker on February 16, 2019, 01:48:04 AM
That's an easy one: anywhere in the Bay Area to Las Vegas (and back, of course). S.O.P. involves CA 58 and I-15. This is one NV problem that an extended I-11 won't even come close to solving. Of course, the culprit was, is, and likely will always be the Sierras, compounded by the White Mountains, Death Valley (actually the ranges around its perimeter), and even Mt. Charleston. Absent the absurd original "I-66" proposal from the '80's that was to run along the Sequoia/Kings Canyon delineation line (or under it!), there's little chance any of this will change in the foreseeable future; we'll be schlepping through Barstow if we want to commit acts that are dubious secrets best kept in Vegas!
WTH is that real? If anyone was serious about building an Interstate through Sequoia National Park it should have been well to the south of the Great Western near the CA 190 corridor where the terrain is infinitely more workable. I'd love to see any proposal documents showing that I-66 corridor if you know of any.
Watch Hill, RI to Orient Point, NY
22.78 miles as the crow flies
40 miles by ferry from New London, CT
228 miles if you skip the ferry
Northport, MI in the Leelanau Peninsula to Escanaba, MI is 83 miles across the water but 277 miles to drive it.
Another one using Northport, Michigan.
Northport to Eastport, MI across the Grand Traverse Bay is 13 miles but 61 miles to drive it.
Going anywhere on the Door Peninsula to the UP.
For example, Ellison Bay, WI to Cedar River, MI
17.5 mi as the crow flies, but 159 mi (2 hr 48 min) driving distance
And Washington Island to Fairport, MI
20.5 mi as the crow flies, but 265 mi (5 hr 24 min) driving distance, including the ferry from Washington Island to the rest of the Door Peninsula
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2019, 09:50:33 AM
Quote from: sparker on February 16, 2019, 01:48:04 AM
That's an easy one: anywhere in the Bay Area to Las Vegas (and back, of course). S.O.P. involves CA 58 and I-15. This is one NV problem that an extended I-11 won't even come close to solving. Of course, the culprit was, is, and likely will always be the Sierras, compounded by the White Mountains, Death Valley (actually the ranges around its perimeter), and even Mt. Charleston. Absent the absurd original "I-66" proposal from the '80's that was to run along the Sequoia/Kings Canyon delineation line (or under it!), there's little chance any of this will change in the foreseeable future; we'll be schlepping through Barstow if we want to commit acts that are dubious secrets best kept in Vegas!
WTH is that real? If anyone was serious about building an Interstate through Sequoia National Park it should have been well to the south of the Great Western near the CA 190 corridor where the terrain is infinitely more workable. I'd love to see any proposal documents showing that I-66 corridor if you know of any.
The CA segment of that planned corridor (circa 1987 or so) was cobbled up by some of your local Fresno "boosters"; the notion of straddling the line between the two NP's, as ridiculous as it sounds in retrospect, was apparently considered within the realm of feasibility at the time. I actually saw a map of the full proposal back around 1997 on an old GeoCities site; it hit 395 around Independence, followed it down to Lone Pine, then east on 136 and 190 before heading east via Pahrump and NV 160 to LV. That was the western end of the infamous corridor that also straddled much of the AZ/UT state line, crossing over it looking like a sine wave pattern on an oscilloscope -- down into AZ along AZ 98, back up into Utah through Monument Valley, back through the Four Corners, and then shooting east along us 160 all the way to I-25, then east via CO 10 to La Junta, and finally exiting CO following the US 400 corridor; the remainder across the country was later taken up by HPC #3 across MO and southern KY, but the promoters never really specified anything east of that state. Some speculate it would have used corridors "G" and "H" to access the current west end of I-66 before following that route into D.C.; others posited a route similar to the east end of the Coalfields Expressway before merging onto I-64. The highly improbable route from CO west was, simply put, intended to string together a route that would appeal to tourists. One one of my cross-country trips back about '91 I attempted to follow the corridor from LV east to at least I-25 -- but once in SW CO, I thought better of traipsing through SE CO on surface roads and made a beeline for Santa Fe; didn't see anything of particular interest east of US 84.
If any of the old proposal documents can be retrieved -- and Fresno's not the only culprit in the mix; a group of Wichita business boosters cobbled up the KS and MO sections, so there might be some residual info floating around there as well -- it would be something of a hoot to start a thread in General about this proposal, which certainly crosses regional lines. But online info might be hard to come by after 32 years; I'll see if anything's out there (I wouldn't be surprised if the Fresno Chamber of Commerce would have some old files stashed somewhere) and readily available. Might take some digging, since the old web host for the info I perused back when is long gone. In hindsight, I should have downloaded and printed copies -- but I had a lot on my plate back then, and it just didn't happen. Coulda, woulda, shoulda; we've probably all been there!
The drive around Kauai from the northwest corner at Ke'e Beach to the point on the island the furthest distance away by road from there (a spot near the Pu'u O Kila Lookout in Koke'e State Park), using the end of the road in each case as the measuring point, is an 80.7-mile drive that takes around two and a half hours. There is no easy option to walk this via a direct route due to the cliffs above the Kalalau Valley, but if you were to walk the Kalalau Trail down the Na Pali Coast to the Kalalau Valley, it's about an 8.6-mile hike to the beach at the foot of the valley. So figure the impassable terrain means you drive about 81 miles to go between two points that are around nine miles away from each other.
Quote from: sparker on February 17, 2019, 02:19:55 AM
The CA segment of that planned corridor (circa 1987 or so) was cobbled up by some of your local Fresno "boosters"; the notion of straddling the line between the two NP's, as ridiculous as it sounds in retrospect, was apparently considered within the realm of feasibility at the time.
I'm not sure what they thought "straddling the line" was going to get them in terms of... what, reducing opposition from environmental groups? There isn't even a "line" anywhere except maps - the two parks are managed as a single unit and there is no "gap" of non-park land where you could theoretically build a road not in the park, much less a freeway.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 17, 2019, 03:17:53 PM
The drive around Kauai from the northwest corner at Ke'e Beach to the point on the island the furthest distance away by road from there (a spot near the Pu'u O Kila Lookout in Koke'e State Park), using the end of the road in each case as the measuring point, is an 80.7-mile drive that takes around two and a half hours. There is no easy option to walk this via a direct route due to the cliffs above the Kalalau Valley, but if you were to walk the Kalalau Trail down the Na Pali Coast to the Kalalau Valley, it's about an 8.6-mile hike to the beach at the foot of the valley. So figure the impassable terrain means you drive about 81 miles to go between two points that are around nine miles away from each other.
There was an attempt in the 1950s to build a shortcut, from the end of what is now HI 550 to what is now HI 560. The challenging part was not the mountainous terrain, but a unique high-altitude swamp (high enough to be mosquito-free!), that had to be protected even in the "pave the earth" era. Road crews pushed ahead, but when the bulldozers got stuck in the swamp (I understand some of them are still there), cooler heads prevailed and the project was called off.
See http://www.hawaiihighways.com/FAQs-page6.htm#Kauai-gap for more details, including a map of the proposed road.
There's roughly similar situations on the Big Island and Oahu. In the northwestern corner of the Big Island, HI 240 and HI 270 dead-end at opposite ends of the Waipio Valley, though there is a very steep (25% grade) and narrow 4x4 road from HI 240 to the valley floor. On the opposite side of the island, lava flows severed the connection between HI 130 in Kalapana and Chain of Craters Rd. in Hawaii Volcanoes National Park. Last year, a one-lane emergency escape route was bulldozed through the lava, after new lava flows threatened to close the other escape routes from the coast southeast of Hilo. That road can be hiked (nothing much to see, now that lava has stopped flowing into the ocean in that area), but is emergency-only for motor vehicles.
On Oahu, there used to be a driveable road between what is now HI 93 on the west coast, and HI 930 on the north shore. Hawaii DOT even unsuccessfully proposed a new Interstate along that route, when it became a state and became eligible for Interstate mileage. Now the old roadbed is blocked by landslides, and barricades to guard a new nature preserve on Kaena Point. I've hiked to the point from both HI 93 and HI 930. There is an alternate shortcut over Kolekole Pass, through an ammunition depot, that might be open to froggie and others with military IDs but otherwise is rarely open to civilians. Otherwise, to get to HI 93 from HI 930, you have to detour over HI 99, and Interstates H-1 and H-2.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/32.2711973,-92.1649994/32.271919,-92.1623372/@32.2699279,-92.1696371,15.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
Relatively few crossings of the Ouachita River in northeast Louisiana caused this one
Any trip crossing Puget Sound, since you have to either drive around or take a ferry.
For example: Everett and Port Townsend are 28 miles apart as the crow flies, but 62 miles (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Everett+Station,+Everett,+WA/Port+Townsend,+WA/@47.6725622,-123.0653356,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x549aaa8feff2e79b:0x49bf498c754669f3!2m2!1d-122.1973638!2d47.9743965!1m5!1m1!1s0x548fe9a4d291b6fd:0xf5e669eab50680c0!2m2!1d-122.7604471!2d48.1170387!3e0) (with one ferry crossing) or 140 miles (with no ferry).
Another example of a geographic barrier in Wisconsin is Lake Winnebago. Back in our college days, my friend still stayed with his parents just outside of Stockbridge, on the east side of the lake, while his girlfriend lived with her parents in Oshkosh, on the west side of the lake. The trip around the North end of the lake is about 35 miles and takes about 45 minutes. A drive straight across the lake would be about 10 miles. It might be possible to drive across the lake in the winter, but I'm not changing falling through the ice. You could also go around the south end of the lake and through Fond du Lac, but that trip is almost an hour.
New York's Finger Lakes, especially the big ones of Seneca and Cayuga, form a significant east-west barrier. The middle of Seneca Lake is a little over 2 miles across, but to get from one side to the other takes a ~40 mile drive via Geneva or Watkins Glen.
Quote from: oscar on February 17, 2019, 04:34:37 PM
On Oahu, there used to be a driveable road between what is now HI 93 on the west coast, and HI 930 on the north shore. Hawaii DOT even unsuccessfully proposed a new Interstate along that route, when it became a state and became eligible for Interstate mileage. Now the old roadbed is blocked by landslides, and barricades to guard a new nature preserve on Kaena Point. I've hiked to the point from both HI 93 and HI 930.
I've only hiked it from HI 930. But as I recall, there's a very old abandoned railroad grade that also traversed Kaena Point.
QuoteThere is an alternate shortcut over Kolekole Pass, through an ammunition depot, that might be open to froggie and others with military IDs but otherwise is rarely open to civilians. Otherwise, to get to HI 93 from HI 930, you have to detour over HI 99, and Interstates H-1 and H-2.
I've driven it (amusingly, there are signs specifically prohibiting photography on the Wai'Anae-bound downhill grade), but I recall it required a second ID-check approaching the top from Schofield Barracks. I've also heard that they've cracked down even further on access even amongst those with DoD IDs, but I haven't been there since 2008 to verify.
I found another incredibly long route in Delaware, thanks to the Indian River Bay:
37145 Sandpiper Rd, Millsboro, DE 19966 (Long Neck) to 38729 River Rd, Ocean View, DE 19970 (Bethany Beach): 2.6 miles by air, 30.6 miles by car
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.6178273,-75.1022908/38.5851689,-75.0768562/@38.576256,-75.2184745,10.75z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
Quote from: Takumi on February 14, 2019, 08:10:50 PM
Anywhere where a bridge has been closed or demolished.
Or seasonal bridges, like the Lake Road bridge connecting Irondequoit and Webster, NY.
It is literally a stones throw across the channel - you can have a conversation with someone on the other side - but from April to November (boat season) it's a 20 minute drive to get from one side to the other.
Quote from: debragga on February 19, 2019, 06:19:39 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/32.2711973,-92.1649994/32.271919,-92.1623372/@32.2699279,-92.1696371,15.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
Relatively few crossings of the Ouachita River in northeast Louisiana caused this one
I've walked across the Ouachita River on rocks near the source in Polk County, Arkansas. It is a mere mountain stream.
Quote from: nexus73 on February 14, 2019, 09:45:11 PM
Coos Bay to Roseburg is 100 miles by road and about 45 in a straight line. There is a close to straight line road between the two areas but it is a stagecoach routing built around 1880. It has gravel sections, lots of curves and the Coast Range to deal with but since this is the 21st century. overcoming these obstacles is not a big deal in terms of engineering.
Why was the route not developed when the automobile became prominent in the early 20th century? Because the towns that came along after the stagecoach route was pushed through set themselves up along the Coquille River. That led to the highway connecting them since no population centers ever came into being along the stagecoach route.
After WWII, the Port Of Coos Bay was this planet's largest wood products shipping port. Logs, lumber and wood chips flowed out of here like oil. Roseburg and the surrounding environs was home to a large complex of mills that needed access to the port. With so much truck traffic being forced onto a very crooked narrow SR 42, that was the time to build a new highway along the stagecoach route. This was discussed but never done.
Today a drive to Roseburg and I-5 takes 2 hours. Had a freeway been built between the two cities on the straightest possible path, one could zoom along at 65 MPH and thus reduce the time to 40 minutes max. Imagine how much more productive trucking would be. Imagine how many more tourists would come with a fine road to bring them to the coast. Imagine what the elevated prosperity from a properly placed and built freeway would have brought to our area.
Add in being able to go to Eugene in 100 minutes instead of 130. Grants Pass would have turned from a 3 hour drive minimum to one of 100 minutes, with Medford just 30 more minutes away.
What could have been. Sigh.
Rick
I just checked OSM, and I found a route or two that seemed to match your description, but it's fairly circuitous and not obvious (and would be doubly so if on the ground!). With that said, with your descriptions of Coos Bay and Roseburg being as important as they were for the lumber industry, I am mildly suprised that there wasn't a direct route built or that OR 42 itself wasn't upgraded.
Naples to Key West.
Quote from: bugo on March 20, 2019, 12:44:54 AM
Naples to Key West.
Kinda, there is ferry service routes:
https://www.keywestexpress.net
Thought of this one on Sunday when it was a nice afternoon and we went for a walk. It's not "long" by vehicular standards, but the difference is significant when you're walking.
Huntley Meadows Park in Fairfax County has two entrances, one on South Kings Highway near the intersection with Telegraph Road and one off Lockheed Boulevard at its intersection with Harrison Lane. Each entrance has walking and biking trails that lead into the park's center, where there's a man-made lake surrounded by wetlands, and from the Lockheed Boulevard entrance you eventually walk on boardwalks above the marsh. However, the trails from each entrance do not connect to each other. They get very close, probably within 0.1 to 0.2 of a mile away, but they do not connect and there is no "acceptable" way to bushwhack between the two (a bunch of signs ask people to stay off the berm to protect various plantings, plus you'd have to wade through some marshy terrain).
So if you want to walk via a "permissible" route between the points where the trails come closest to each other, you're looking at a 4.2-mile walk! (Google Maps shows a slightly more direct option using Deer Run Court, but to get to that street from the park you have to walk through a maintenance area closed to public access, so I dragged the route to the "legal" way.)
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.7514854,-77.1082917/38.7513303,-77.1067372/@38.7555297,-77.1199365,15.04z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-77.1170405!2d38.7684371!3s0x89b7adf6fdc826fd:0x11c8e87c7dcda64c!1m0!3e2
I note that once upon a time, there was a proposal to build a road, then usually called the Lockheed Boulevard Connector, that would have extended Lockheed Boulevard westbound to somewhere around where Van Dorn Street now meets Telegraph Road. (Van Dorn itself was long-delayed from King Centre Drive to Telegraph Road due to wetlands issues; it finally opened around 2003 or 2004.) froggie probably knows more about it than I do, but I know the county formally abandoned the Lockheed Connector plan in late 1990 because of the environmental damage it would have done to Huntley Meadows (which is a major wildlife habitat, including for a bunch of threatened species). That road would have shortened the distance a great deal and simplified a lot of traffic patterns, but the wetlands environment in the park is pretty unique for Fairfax County and it's for the best they scrapped the road. Doesn't stop some people from complaining, though: Two or three years ago at our HOA's annual meeting, an elderly resident tried to engage our district's representative on the county board of supervisors about building that road, this some 25+ years after the proposal was dropped. He wouldn't shut up about it until the supervisor said he'd speak privately to the guy afterwards.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 20, 2019, 01:04:58 AM
Quote from: bugo on March 20, 2019, 12:44:54 AM
Naples to Key West.
Kinda, there is ferry service routes:
https://www.keywestexpress.net
I didn't click the link, but if that's affiliated with the one that runs from Fort Myers Beach, it's passenger-only. Obviously my comment above relates to walking, but I doubt any rational person would attempt to walk from Naples to Key West, so I'm not sure whether the ferry necessarily shortens the trip.
Quote from: bugo on March 17, 2019, 05:40:31 PM
Quote from: debragga on February 19, 2019, 06:19:39 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/32.2711973,-92.1649994/32.271919,-92.1623372/@32.2699279,-92.1696371,15.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
Relatively few crossings of the Ouachita River in northeast Louisiana caused this one
I've walked across the Ouachita River on rocks near the source in Polk County, Arkansas. It is a mere mountain stream.
It's much wider when you go farther south
Over 3 hours to get from one side of the Missouri River to the other (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Brownville,+NE/Phelps+City,+MO+64482/@40.2773194,-95.9028196,8.25z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x879506bdd5b0bd5b:0xb654ffcda533db94!2m2!1d-95.6580455!2d40.3977793!1m5!1m1!1s0x879504674fac237b:0xf350bd491e1ef806!2m2!1d-95.609512!2d40.398029!3e0!5m1!1e1) thanks to every crossing between Omaha and St. Joseph being closed due to flooding.
Quote from: webny99 on March 27, 2019, 08:53:08 AM
Over 3 hours to get from one side of the Missouri River to the other (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Brownville,+NE/Phelps+City,+MO+64482/@40.2773194,-95.9028196,8.25z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x879506bdd5b0bd5b:0xb654ffcda533db94!2m2!1d-95.6580455!2d40.3977793!1m5!1m1!1s0x879504674fac237b:0xf350bd491e1ef806!2m2!1d-95.609512!2d40.398029!3e0!5m1!1e1) thanks to every crossing between Omaha and St. Joseph being closed due to flooding.
The 1993 flood had similar problems. Every Mississippi River bridge between Keokuk IA and the I-270 bridge at St Louis was closed. Both bridges going south of St Louis between I-255 at St Louis and I-57 at Cairo were closed. There was also a large gap on the Missouri River within Missouri, I believe from I-70 near Rocheport to I-70 at St Charles. Even the US 40-61 (now I-64) bridge in Chesterfield was closed as the eastern approach was flooded. Every ferry crossing on those stretches was also closed.
Skagway, Alaska to Haines, Alaska -- 16.29 miles as the crow flies, 19 miles by ferry, but 352 miles (including a significant portion in the Yukon) by car.
https://www.distance-cities.com/searchbd?from=skagway%2C%20ak&to=haines%2C%20ak&fromId=0&toId=0&flat=0&flon=0&tlat=0&tlon=0 (https://www.distance-cities.com/searchbd?from=skagway%2C%20ak&to=haines%2C%20ak&fromId=0&toId=0&flat=0&flon=0&tlat=0&tlon=0)
Quote from: skluth on March 28, 2019, 09:39:45 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 27, 2019, 08:53:08 AM
Over 3 hours to get from one side of the Missouri River to the other (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Brownville,+NE/Phelps+City,+MO+64482/@40.2773194,-95.9028196,8.25z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x879506bdd5b0bd5b:0xb654ffcda533db94!2m2!1d-95.6580455!2d40.3977793!1m5!1m1!1s0x879504674fac237b:0xf350bd491e1ef806!2m2!1d-95.609512!2d40.398029!3e0!5m1!1e1) thanks to every crossing between Omaha and St. Joseph being closed due to flooding.
The 1993 flood had similar problems. Every Mississippi River bridge between Keokuk IA and the I-270 bridge at St Louis was closed. Both bridges going south of St Louis between I-255 at St Louis and I-57 at Cairo were closed. There was also a large gap on the Missouri River within Missouri, I believe from I-70 near Rocheport to I-70 at St Charles. Even the US 40-61 (now I-64) bridge in Chesterfield was closed as the eastern approach was flooded. Every ferry crossing on those stretches was also closed.
Not as drastic, but after some flooding in June 2008, a trip from Manistee to Ludington, which normally takes about a half hour, could take about an hour and a half as every north-south road west of M-37 was closed at some point due to high water and/or washouts. US-31 was opened up a few days later, but several major roads didn't reopen until just before winter (Quarterline, Stiles, Custer, Fountain, Sugar Grove, Jebavy).
Bumping this thread due to an extreme example I've just found in the Alps: 142 driving miles for just 4.5 straight line miles (https://www.google.es/maps/dir/45.4538759,7.0397903/45.4634371,7.1320825/@45.421381,6.788537,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!4m1!4e1). I bet it would take less time to hike between those two points, especially going from Italy to France.
Driving to Alaska from the west coast of the continental United States.
Sheldrake Point and Elmwood Point are less than two miles apart as the crow flies, but due to Cayuga Lake, it's a 43 mile drive through Ithaca: https://www.google.es/maps/dir/42.665727,-76.6994124/42.6667668,-76.6663116/@42.5076573,-76.5743028,11.41z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
26 miles around Lake Keuka to drive a distance of less than a mile as the crow flies: https://www.google.es/maps/dir/42.5009999,-77.1393862/42.488329,-77.1339262/@42.5096419,-77.1406617,12.91z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
Another New York example: 39 miles to drive around Lake George (about a mile and a half as the crow flies): https://www.google.es/maps/dir/43.6625847,-73.5212664/43.6425368,-73.511495/@43.6562515,-73.5211954,13.99z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
5 miles as the crow flies, 52.3 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/44.5527271,-73.3104981/44.5264996,-73.4033884/@44.4954545,-73.3561561,10.75z
901 feet as the crow flies, 287 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/40.0445245,43.845908/40.0429017,43.8455823/@40.8001464,43.1605045,8.75z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
2 miles as the crow flies, 84 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/41.1757828,45.1163304/41.2063757,45.0737854/@41.3622902,44.9526301,9z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!4e1
14 miles as the crow flies, 276 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/4.4134521,28.0168899/4.364398,28.2136836/@4.2792784,27.9129867,8.13z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!4e1
And the ultimate one... 22.74 miles as the crow flies, 3,636 miles as the road drives!
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/12.5886144,43.1960283/12.6909033,43.5164555/@11.9781143,42.4516586,5.75z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!4e1
Last year when the Smallwood, Edenville and Sanford Dams all failed the Tittabawassee River flooded everything to the south including the Sanford and Midland. This flooding continued all the way south into Saginaw where every bridge was closed and to get from Saginaw to Thomas Township where Shields is located which is a suburb of Saginaw took over an hour.
Like with the M-46 bridge you'd have to travel south on M-13 and take some back roads to get to Fergus Road in southern Saginaw County, then you couldn't use M-52 through St. Charles to get back since the M-52 bridge at the Bad River in St. Charles was also closed. You had to travel all the way west to Hemlock Road and come back north, then you could take M-46 east back into the Shields area.
This right here would have been the route you'd have to use.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/43.415673,-84.0422612/Jack's+Fruit+%26+Meat+Markets/@43.2968025,-84.2086385,11z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-84.2292116!2d43.2617536!3s0x8823b4803d572c4d:0x88b55230542b4268!3m4!1m2!1d-84.0527251!2d43.2555628!3s0x8823b97c3b834061:0x9d255b443fbe9924!1m5!1m1!1s0x8823c42e20c57ba1:0x78f5d8c87f0f8363!2m2!1d-84.0528965!2d43.4163019!3e0!5m1!1e1
Eagle to Aspen CO: 29 miles vs 73 miles
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2021, 01:16:41 AM901 feet as the crow flies, 287 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/40.0445245,43.845908/40.0429017,43.8455823/@40.8001464,43.1605045,8.75z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
2 miles as the crow flies, 84 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/41.1757828,45.1163304/41.2063757,45.0737854/@41.3622902,44.9526301,9z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!4e1
These are due to closed borders between Armenia and both Azerbaijan and Turkey. If they were open, it wouldn't require those detours through Georgia (the country, not the state).
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2021, 01:16:41 AM
And the ultimate one... 22.74 miles as the crow flies, 3,636 miles as the road drives!
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/12.5886144,43.1960283/12.6909033,43.5164555/@11.9781143,42.4516586,5.75z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!4e1
You have to thank
God Allah for that Egypt-Saudi Arabia ferry. The all-land route gets blocked by some greedy guy called Israel...
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on May 29, 2021, 06:15:52 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2021, 01:16:41 AM901 feet as the crow flies, 287 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/40.0445245,43.845908/40.0429017,43.8455823/@40.8001464,43.1605045,8.75z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
2 miles as the crow flies, 84 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/41.1757828,45.1163304/41.2063757,45.0737854/@41.3622902,44.9526301,9z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!4e1
These are due to closed borders between Armenia and both Azerbaijan and Turkey. If they were open, it wouldn't require those detours through Georgia (the country, not the state).
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2021, 01:16:41 AM
And the ultimate one... 22.74 miles as the crow flies, 3,636 miles as the road drives!
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/12.5886144,43.1960283/12.6909033,43.5164555/@11.9781143,42.4516586,5.75z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!4e1
You have to thank God Allah for that Egypt-Saudi Arabia ferry. The all-land route gets blocked by some greedy guy called Israel...
Couldn't you go Egypt-Israel-Jordan-Saudi Arabia?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2021, 06:19:38 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on May 29, 2021, 06:15:52 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2021, 01:16:41 AM901 feet as the crow flies, 287 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/40.0445245,43.845908/40.0429017,43.8455823/@40.8001464,43.1605045,8.75z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
2 miles as the crow flies, 84 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/41.1757828,45.1163304/41.2063757,45.0737854/@41.3622902,44.9526301,9z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!4e1
These are due to closed borders between Armenia and both Azerbaijan and Turkey. If they were open, it wouldn't require those detours through Georgia (the country, not the state).
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2021, 01:16:41 AM
And the ultimate one... 22.74 miles as the crow flies, 3,636 miles as the road drives!
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/12.5886144,43.1960283/12.6909033,43.5164555/@11.9781143,42.4516586,5.75z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!4e1
You have to thank God Allah for that Egypt-Saudi Arabia ferry. The all-land route gets blocked by some greedy guy called Israel...
Couldn't you go Egypt-Israel-Jordan-Saudi Arabia?
no, because Saudi Arabia bans entry from anyone with Israel passports/stamps in their passports
Quote from: SSOWorld on May 29, 2021, 07:29:00 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2021, 06:19:38 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on May 29, 2021, 06:15:52 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2021, 01:16:41 AM901 feet as the crow flies, 287 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/40.0445245,43.845908/40.0429017,43.8455823/@40.8001464,43.1605045,8.75z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
2 miles as the crow flies, 84 miles as the road drives
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/41.1757828,45.1163304/41.2063757,45.0737854/@41.3622902,44.9526301,9z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!4e1
These are due to closed borders between Armenia and both Azerbaijan and Turkey. If they were open, it wouldn't require those detours through Georgia (the country, not the state).
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2021, 01:16:41 AM
And the ultimate one... 22.74 miles as the crow flies, 3,636 miles as the road drives!
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/12.5886144,43.1960283/12.6909033,43.5164555/@11.9781143,42.4516586,5.75z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!4e1
You have to thank God Allah for that Egypt-Saudi Arabia ferry. The all-land route gets blocked by some greedy guy called Israel...
Couldn't you go Egypt-Israel-Jordan-Saudi Arabia?
no, because Saudi Arabia bans entry from anyone with Israel passports/stamps in their passports
If I could recall you can get Israel to stamp another piece of paper instead of your passport.
Quote from: sparker on February 16, 2019, 01:48:04 AM
That's an easy one: anywhere in the Bay Area to Las Vegas (and back, of course). S.O.P. involves CA 58 and I-15.
What about this: I-80 east to Sacramento, then US 50 east to CA 89 south to US 395 south to Big Pine, then CA 168 to NV 266 east to US 95 south to Vegas? Or US 50 east past Lake Tahoe and Carson City to US 95A near Silver Springs, then south on that to US 95 at Schurz? How much longer are those routes from SF to Vegas?
Provincetown to Boston: 50 miles by straight line, 115 miles by driving.
Quote from: MinecraftNinja on May 29, 2021, 11:30:23 PM
Provincetown to Boston: 50 miles by straight line, 115 miles by driving.
Is there still a ferry between the two cities? I remember one of the Rand McNally road atlases from a while back marking such a ferry.
If that ferry does, in fact, still exist, does it allow cars, or it is passengers only?
Quote from: KCRoadFan on May 29, 2021, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: MinecraftNinja on May 29, 2021, 11:30:23 PM
Provincetown to Boston: 50 miles by straight line, 115 miles by driving.
Is there still a ferry between the two cities? I remember one of the Rand McNally road atlases from a while back marking such a ferry.
If that ferry does, in fact, still exist, does it allow cars, or it is passengers only?
Passengers only.
Several years ago, Highway 11/17 just west of the split in Nipigon in northern Ontario was closed as the bridge collapsed. Until the replacement bridge was completed, all car traffic across Canada had to drop down into the US. For example, a trip from Nipigon to the Lake Helen Indian Preserve, which would normally take five minutes or less, would take about 17-18 hours via Thunder Bay, Duluth, Marquette, and the Twin Saults.
Another example involving Canada is between Windsor and Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario. It's normally about a five hour trip via I-75. Currently, non-truck traffic that has to head between the two has to head east toward Toronto and then north to Sudbury before turning back west toward Sault Ontario.
Some suburban areas here are not unconnected (and can only be accessed via a lengthy trip to the arterial road) due to:
1) A railway
2) A natural feature (like a creek, river, green area, or whatever)
3) Municipal boundary where the two suburbs were developed at different times and thus do not connect directly
Anchorage to Kenai.
63 miles as the crow flies, 158 (about a 3 hour drive) by land.
Going to Apalachicola, FL (town close to St. George Island) when traveling from I-10. By the way the crow flies it's 70 miles from the Marianna, FL exit (SR-71), driving however is 93-96 miles or 1 hour 41-42 minutes. If you choose the western approach you go almost dead south to Port St. Joe then have to drive east on US-98 for 20 miles. The eastern approach takes you SE to east of Eastpoint via SR-65 then you have to drive west on US-98 for 10 miles.
Slight bump for a fun one I found in Rural Estates, FL (east of Naples): 200 feet across the canal, nearly 14 miles by road (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/26.158091,-81.526693/26.1580384,-81.5277628/@26.1950704,-81.6232072,32645m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e0?hl=en&entry=ttu)
Adding to my earlier post about Puget Sound: any trip involving San Juan County (which has no bridges and is thus heavily dependent on the ailing ferry system).
A few more fun ones: Island County has two islands without direct ferry service between them, so residents of Camano Island needing to conduct some county affairs (such as jury duty) have to drive a minimum of 55 miles to Coupeville on Whidbey Island, crossing two counties in the process. A one-county route requires a ferry hop and takes much longer.
Washington only has a few all-year mountain passes, so Bellingham to Okanogan (134 miles as the crow flies) turns from a 190-mile drive in the summer to 265 miles in the winter months.
Crested Butte, CO to Aspen, CO (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/crested+butte/aspen/@39.0446759,-107.9291999,9z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x8740723e8a38d3e3:0x37006e19d5e7f39f!2m2!1d-106.9878231!2d38.8697146!1m5!1m1!1s0x8740397cf7413c7d:0xc12b42dc782cf672!2m2!1d-106.8175387!2d39.1910983!3e0?entry=ttu): 24 miles by air, 100 miles by road in summer when Kebler Pass is open, 199 miles by year-round highway.
Muskegon, MI to Milwaukee, WI.
277 miles by car having to go straight through Chicago (4 hr 30 mins) or 89 miles by an expensive ferry that costs more than the gas going around the lake (3 hr 10 mins)
Would be cool to see a long bridge/tunnel here, maybe in a few lifetimes :D
Quote from: michiganguy123 on February 28, 2024, 09:57:32 PM
Muskegon, MI to Milwaukee, WI.
277 miles by car having to go straight through Chicago (4 hr 30 mins) or 89 miles by an expensive ferry that costs more than the gas going around the lake (3 hr 10 mins)
Would be cool to see a long bridge/tunnel here, maybe in a few lifetimes :D
They could never get that done. The length and depth of the water would be a problem as there are no Islands at all in that part of Lake Michigan.
There are plenty of absurd examples wherever there are impassable mountains. Mammoth Lakes to Edison Lake in the Sierra Nevada is 198 miles by road, or 19 by the way the crow flies.
Quote from: michiganguy123 on February 28, 2024, 09:57:32 PM
Muskegon, MI to Milwaukee, WI.
277 miles by car having to go straight through Chicago (4 hr 30 mins) or 89 miles by an expensive ferry that costs more than the gas going around the lake (3 hr 10 mins)
Would be cool to see a long bridge/tunnel here, maybe in a few lifetimes :D
Channeling MMM? (That was one of his proposals)
For the record, Ludington to Manitowoc is longer (and may not be the longest).
14.4 miles by crow, 349 miles by vehicle.
Bass Cove, Drummond Island, MI to the Lafarge Dolomite Quarry, Meldrum Bay, Ontario
https://maps.app.goo.gl/T2crzV6V8DNKwE1R7
The Google couldn't get me onto Cockburn Island, which would've been about 360 miles of driving for 2 miles of by-crow travel.
Quote from: GaryV on February 29, 2024, 08:28:51 AM
Quote from: michiganguy123 on February 28, 2024, 09:57:32 PM
Muskegon, MI to Milwaukee, WI.
277 miles by car having to go straight through Chicago (4 hr 30 mins) or 89 miles by an expensive ferry that costs more than the gas going around the lake (3 hr 10 mins)
Would be cool to see a long bridge/tunnel here, maybe in a few lifetimes :D
Channeling MMM? (That was one of his proposals)
For the record, Ludington to Manitowoc is longer (and may not be the longest).
I know traveling around the entire lake is like 15 hours of just driving.
Quote from: JREwing78 on February 29, 2024, 07:02:10 PM
14.4 miles by crow, 349 miles by vehicle.
Bass Cove, Drummond Island, MI to the Lafarge Dolomite Quarry, Meldrum Bay, Ontario
https://maps.app.goo.gl/T2crzV6V8DNKwE1R7
The Google couldn't get me onto Cockburn Island, which would've been about 360 miles of driving for 2 miles of by-crow travel.
Cockburn used to have a ferry going to it back in the day, not from Michigan though.
Quote from: michiganguy123 on February 28, 2024, 09:57:32 PM
Muskegon, MI to Milwaukee, WI.
277 miles by car having to go straight through Chicago (4 hr 30 mins) or 89 miles by an expensive ferry that costs more than the gas going around the lake (3 hr 10 mins)
Would be cool to see a long bridge/tunnel here, maybe in a few lifetimes :D
Well, if that stupid lake wasn't in the way . . . Ditto the drive westward out of Denver, CO on I-70 if those stupid mountains weren't in the way . . .
:rolleyes:
Mike
Back in August returning from Toulouse I lamented this tunnel wasn't built, causing this detour. Otherwise I would have taken it.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on February 14, 2019, 04:38:27 AM
Benasque, Spain to Bagneres-de-Luchon, France is another nice detour due to unbuilt border crossings.
Edit to add links to the routes:
Benasque to Bagneres-de-Luchon (https://www.google.es/maps/dir/Benasque,+22440,+Huesca/Bagn%C3%A8res-de-Luchon,+Francia/@42.6140446,0.3497621,10z/data=!4m15!4m14!1m5!1m1!1s0x12a879337bde843d:0x8db65591a6f2a6aa!2m2!1d0.5228286!2d42.6042858!1m5!1m1!1s0x12a861f104f68b5b:0x387ece5e3eeee589!2m2!1d0.592943!2d42.788963!3e0!4e1), 70 road miles for 13 air miles.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on March 01, 2024, 06:34:46 PM
Back in August returning from Toulouse I lamented this tunnel wasn't built, causing this detour. Otherwise I would have taken it.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on February 14, 2019, 04:38:27 AM
Benasque, Spain to Bagneres-de-Luchon, France is another nice detour due to unbuilt border crossings.
Edit to add links to the routes:
Benasque to Bagneres-de-Luchon (https://www.google.es/maps/dir/Benasque,+22440,+Huesca/Bagn%C3%A8res-de-Luchon,+Francia/@42.6140446,0.3497621,10z/data=!4m15!4m14!1m5!1m1!1s0x12a879337bde843d:0x8db65591a6f2a6aa!2m2!1d0.5228286!2d42.6042858!1m5!1m1!1s0x12a861f104f68b5b:0x387ece5e3eeee589!2m2!1d0.592943!2d42.788963!3e0!4e1), 70 road miles for 13 air miles.
And there are a bunch of stupid mountains in the way there, too
Mike