Tulsa to Dallas

[bugo]

I went on a drive from Tulsa to Dallas.  The route was:
I-44 west
US 75 south
Indian Nation Turnpike south
US 69 south
US 75 south
Spur 366 west 

Return trip:
I-30 east
TX 24 north
Loop 286 counterclockwise
US 271 north
Indian Nation Turnpike north
US 75 north
I-44 east

Notes:

US 75 through Okmulgee is a pain.  The stretch of US 75 that goes through Okmulgee is several miles long and full of stop lights and low speed limits.  Henryetta isn't too bad though.

Saw some abandoned concrete stretches near Caney.  These stretches are not the original US 69 alignment because the original 69 ran east of Caney.  Possibly this was an early 2 lane realignment.

TX 50 is still signed from EB I-30.  From I-30 to Commerce there are no TX 50 shields.  In Commerce. signage is sporadic as some signs show only TX 24 and some show both 24 and 50.

Had a guy in a Buick pull over to the shoulder to let me and another guy pass on a 2 lane section of TX 24.  Texas hospitality at its finest.  Drivers in the rest of the country could learn from the Texans.

Bizarre interchange at Loop 286 and US 271 in Paris.  http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=paris+tx&sll=32.931457,-96.756243&sspn=0.001751,0.004667&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Paris,+Lamar,+Texas&ll=33.647814,-95.503335&spn=0.013897,0.037336&t=k&z=15

US 75 in Texas is a mix of Clearpuke and the FHWA font.

I drove in a HOV lane on US 75.  I didn't like it because it was only one lane and there was nowhere to pass.  Fortunately, the car ahead of me was driving the speed limit so I didn't experience congestion. 

Huge stack interchange under construction at US 75 and TX 121.

US 67 appears out of nowhere east of Dallas along I-30.  It is mostly unsigned along I-30 in Dallas.

Huge stack interchange under construction at I-30 and what I presume to be the the President George H.W. Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship Turnpike Bush Highway Road.

Construction underway to remove traffic light and replace with interchange on US 75 just south of the Creek Turnpike.  This light was a real hazard.

Interchange under construction just south of Durant on US 69/75.  It appears to be an Oklahoma Stack, aka cloverleaf.  I was told this is a US 70 bypass of Durant, which is badly needed.

Lots of circles on US 69.

The OK 3 interchange on the Indian Nation Turnpike has OK 7 as well, both with meat cleavers.  OK 7 was truncated to Atoka years ago.

FM 121 text sign on US 69.  TX 121 intersects US 75 not too far away.

Very little traffic on the Indian Nation Turnpike.  The lack of traffic plus the 75 MPH speed limit made an enjoyable driving experience.  However, the pavement is very rough in places.

Spur 366 is signed from US 75 as South I-35W.  Very stupid and confusing.  Luckily I figured it out.

Heading due east from TX 19/24, Loop 286 is signed first south, then north, then finally west around US 271 north.

Loop 286 is a "super 4" at TX 19/24.

US 69 between McAlester and the Texas line is a pain in the ass.  Constantly changing speed limits, narrow undivided sections, speedtraps.  They need to go ahead and build a turnpike along this route.  I'd certainly pay $3 to avoid this mess.

Pics of the first day are at http://www.flickr.com/photos/watuzi/sets/72157623640651674/

[Truvelo]

Bizarre interchange at Loop 286 and US 271 in Paris.  http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=paris+tx&sll=32.931457,-96.756243&sspn=0.001751,0.004667&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Paris,+Lamar,+Texas&ll=33.647814,-95.503335&spn=0.013897,0.037336&t=k&z=15

To get from Business to the main US-271 involves using a tight loop to turn back on yourself. As for the interchange itself it seems all the ramps have been striped down to a single lane, no doubt because of the weaving. Would it be better to have three lanes each way in the weaving section and restripe the ramps with two lanes?

[yakra]

Construction underway to remove traffic light and replace with interchange on US 75 just south of the Creek Turnpike.  This light was a real hazard.

Would this be at 111th St S?

Lots of circles on US 69.

Ooh! Where, where?

[bugo]

Construction underway to remove traffic light and replace with interchange on US 75 just south of the Creek Turnpike.  This light was a real hazard.
Would this be at 111th St S?

Yes.

Lots of circles on US 69.

Ooh! Where, where?










This one is on US 75:

[yakra]

Oh. Duh. Not roundabouts then.

[bugo]

Oh. Duh. Not roundabouts then.

There is a traffic circle at Admiral and Mingo (former intersection of several US and state highways).  I made a video of it but the video was pointed straight forward and you can't really see where you're going.  I can upload it anyway if anybody wants to see it.

[Sykotyk]

I've been on those roads many times.

The Indian Nation between US 69 and Hugo is a great road for driving 75. Very little traffic or infrastructure nearby.

Oklahoma needs to get on the ball and build up a turnpike to bypass the unfinished freeway portions of US 69/US 75 from Big Timber (I-44) and the Texas state line.

Sykotyk

[Scott5114]

Big Cabin...

[Sykotyk]

Oops. Wrong state.

Sykotyk

[rte66man]

That is one turnpike that will NEVER happen. Although the statutory authority to build it is there, the politics of the situation (towns that don't want to be bypassed) means they will never get it done.  Little Dixie at its best 

[Scott5114]

One thing I've learned about OK politics is to never say "it can't be done". (This is the state that moved its capital in the middle of the night, resulting in a Supreme Court case.) Not sure if OTA is the same way, but ODOT still has a very '60s mindset when it comes to ROW acquisition and such–they are impervious to protesters. OTA faced some pretty stiff opposition to the Creek Turnpike, and still got it done. I doubt if they really wanted to do it, they'd let some little burg like Stringtown jeopardize their plans.

And even if that were the case, a deal can always be cut in the legislature. The rural legislators balked at the Creek and Kilpatrick turnpike plans when they were first drawn up in the 80s...but the urban legislators proposing them managed to cut a deal with the rural legislators that resulted in the Cherokee and Chickasaw Turnpikes being added to the same package.

[TheStranger]

One thing I've learned about OK politics is to never say "it can't be done".

Case in point:

US 377.

[agentsteel53]

US 377.

I don't understand why 377 is so controversial.  I thought the states had the right to define where a US route terminated in their state, and AASHO's responsibility was coordinating across state lines so that the routes were continuous.

[rte66man]

I would disagree about the Creek and Kilpatrick. They have been on the official plats for those areas since the late 50's. I was living in Tulsa in the 70's and 80's when the Creek controversy was at its height. Those $250,000 homes (now worth much more) were built despite having a proposed freeway marked very clearly on their abstracts. The owners thought it would never be built as a freeway (they were right about that), but forgot that OTA could step in and build it as a tollroad. 

I don't remember any controversy about the Kilpatrick as most of it was already marked off. Memorial was a divided stree with a huge median from Penn west to past Portland. Everyone knew the freeway would go there. No one lived west of Portland.  People used to make fun of Mercy Hospital when they moved to Memorial and Meridian because it was so far out in the boonies. East of Penn there was no development zlong the proposed path. Besides, the proposed road had been marked on maps since the 70s.

You are right about deals. There was a legislator from Ada named Lonnie Abbott. IIRC, he was chairman of the House Transportation committee in the late 70's. In order to get the authority for the Creek and others, he made OTA build the Chickasaw. He also got ODOT to build the Ada ring road (mostly a four lane freeway) and four lane OK99 (now US377) north to I40. He wanted a freeway from I35 at Davis to I40, but settled for what we see today.

I also don't remember the Cherokee being controversial, but I do understand it being a bargaining chip.  Dan Holmes might not have liked having to pay to get to Springdale, but would have been pleased that 33 was bypassed.

rte66man

[Scott5114]

US 377.

I don't understand why 377 is so controversial.  I thought the states had the right to define where a US route terminated in their state, and AASHO's responsibility was coordinating across state lines so that the routes were continuous.

Part of the reason is because ODOT botched the northern terminus. To this day, there's no real way to determine where US 377 ends. US-377 shields still appear after crossing SH-66, but US-377 has disappeared by the time you get to I-44. And it's not just a signage fluke; not even ODOT maps can agree on the terminus. Without the AASHTO log, there's no telling where the canonical north end is...and the AASHTO log still says US 377 ends at Madill!

[Scott5114]

I would disagree about the Creek and Kilpatrick. [...] I don't remember any controversy about the Kilpatrick as most of it was already marked off.

The source I have for my statements is one I dug up while doing research on the Chickasaw Turnpike a few years ago. This article says that the Creek, Cherokee, and Kilpatrick were to be built as a package deal, which some "politically connected lawmakers" (one would assume that would include Abbot) moved to block unless southern Oklahoma got a turnpike.

[agentsteel53]

Part of the reason is because ODOT botched the northern terminus. To this day, there's no real way to determine where US 377 ends. US-377 shields still appear after crossing SH-66, but US-377 has disappeared by the time you get to I-44. And it's not just a signage fluke; not even ODOT maps can agree on the terminus. Without the AASHTO log, there's no telling where the canonical north end is...and the AASHTO log still says US 377 ends at Madill!

doesn't sound much worse than the US routes that end in Memphis, which do have official AASHO approval.

[TheStranger]

Part of the reason is because ODOT botched the northern terminus. To this day, there's no real way to determine where US 377 ends. US-377 shields still appear after crossing SH-66, but US-377 has disappeared by the time you get to I-44. And it's not just a signage fluke; not even ODOT maps can agree on the terminus. Without the AASHTO log, there's no telling where the canonical north end is...and the AASHTO log still says US 377 ends at Madill!

doesn't sound much worse than the US routes that end in Memphis, which do have official AASHO approval.

Or US 25's mid-crossing termini at the north end of the Ohio River...