"Mini poles" on the back of signs & BGS

[Mergingtraffic]

I've noticed NY puts short poles or mini-poles on the back of their signs. Everything from "One Way Signs" to diamond signs. Why do they do this?  It seems to be a waste.
Why not attach the sign to an upright pole without the siideways poles.

An example is hre on the back of the signs on the left of the road.


Also, with the metal that makes up the BGSes in NY, they use large square sheeting bolted together while CT uses rectangle sheets stacked on top of each other until the desired sign size is made. (Similiar to the way this site background is)

You can kind of see the square sheeting on the right side sign under NY 100.


CT Rectangle sheeting

What do your states do?

[Ian]

The "mini poles" on the back of the signs help with wind resistance, I believe. There are a few other states that do this like Wyoming and Florida. Here is a somewhat closer view of a NY one (look at the back of the yield sign on the right):


The square sheeting bolted together is pretty cool IMHO. NY is one of the states that does it and I always liked it, especially the rounded corners. Signs like those are seen in Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida. Delaware used to do it. There may be other states that use these but I can't think of any others at the top of my head.

[florida]

Like PennDOTFan said, the square sheeting is used down here. Some lucky remnants of single-sheeting (if that's what you'd call it) exist, and newer signs (mostly distance signs) are now of the rectangular sheeting...especially after the hurricanes from 2004-05.

The "mini-poles" aren't on any signs from about 1980 and before, down here. It seems to provide a more secure fastening to the pole, especially with multi-directional trailblazers.

[J N Winkler]

All signs have to be able to withstand certain specified wind loadings.  Strap reinforcement is very common for small guide signs and is used extensively in California, for example.  Another approach (also used in California for large warning signs and the like) is to frame the back of the sign with stiffeners.

It looks like ConnDOT is using extruded aluminum with the sheeting applied directly to the extrusions, which are then secured to each other with bolts.  This form of sign construction is rather heavy and, I believe, requires a thicker gauge of aluminum.  Another form of construction, which is common in Ohio and Kansas and seems to be what NYSDOT is doing also, is called "extrusheet"--extrusions are still used, but are lighter, and the retroreflective sheeting is applied to large panels of thin-gauge aluminum which is secured to the extrusions using rivets.  Extrusheet construction is really easy to spot when the aluminum panel edges are vertical.

California and Pennsylvania also have significant numbers of laminated panel signs--these are essentially a "sandwich" of wadded paper between thin aluminum panels.  Retroreflective sheeting is applied to the front while the back is left unfinished, and there are also channels which allow separate laminated panels to be butted together to form a larger sign.  Typically a laminated-panel sign will have just one horizontal seam.

California is probably unique in using formed panel signs, which are essentially fixed-width sheets of crimped aluminum reinforced with stiffeners and designed to slide side by side into a removable sign panel frame in order to form a complete sign.  Formed panel signs are easy to spot because the panel joins are vertical and regularly spaced.  I believe ground-mounted formed panel signs exist, but as a general rule of thumb they are most common on overheads.

[agentsteel53]

I believe ground-mounted formed panel signs exist, but as a general rule of thumb they are most common on overheads.

I cannot think of any, but I tend not to pay attention to any retroreflective sign, so if they are of that style, I have not noticed.

[US71]

The "mini poles" on the back of the signs help with wind resistance, I believe. There are a few other states that do this like Wyoming and Florida. Here is a somewhat closer view of a NY one (look at the back of the yield sign on the right):

Oklahoma does this, too... especially with their oversized STOP signs.

[J N Winkler]

I cannot think of any, but I tend not to pay attention to any retroreflective sign, so if they are of that style, I have not noticed.

Check the 1989 publication--formed panel signs were introduced pre-1980 for sure, possibly pre-1970, so if there are any ground-mounted examples, they will likely have an opaque background.

Regarding other forms of sign construction, I would guess that laminated panel signs ("Douglas A-10 honeycomb" to the cognoscenti) were introduced in the mid-1950's.  I think it is possible they were designed to use AGA letters from the start, but I don't know for sure because rivets, porcelain, and steel are not supposed to go together.

[agentsteel53]

Check the 1989 publication--formed panel signs were introduced pre-1980 for sure, possibly pre-1970, so if there are any ground-mounted examples, they will likely have an opaque background.

I'll be in CA in a week, so I'll be on the lookout.  I believe the formed-panel overheads came into being in 1973, unless there were porcelain formed-panel ones.  Inherently, rivets and porcelain are not a good combination, but if you pre-drill the steel before applying the enameling, rivets are just fine.  Backplates to hold in reflectors were attached with rivets to porcelain signs starting in 1954, and before that, nut/bolt combinations were used that were functionally identical (just a tad less vandal-proof).

also, many overhead signs have had patches applied with rivets.  Apparently with a glass-cutting bit, you *can* drill rivet holes in porcelain.  It does significantly weaken it, and rust starts to form immediately, but it doesn't completely shatter it like starting with a metal-drilling bit would. 

Regarding other forms of sign construction, I would guess that laminated panel signs ("Douglas A-10 honeycomb" to the cognoscenti) were introduced in the mid-1950's.  I think it is possible they were designed to use AGA letters from the start, but I don't know for sure because rivets, porcelain, and steel are not supposed to go together.

the earliest example I have seen of that is the 1960 set at the north end of CA-79 at I-10, and the second-earliest is a great number of 1963s.  I don't believe there is any bias present in sign removal (i.e. the signs are green, not black, so therefore not overly targeted for replacement), therefore I think '63 is a good date to assign its widespread introduction, with '60 being an experiment that happened to survive. 

[ctsignguy]

When i was very young, Ohio would use cut sections of U-channel signpost as back mounts for larger (36" and up) signs such as STOP, diamond warning signs and even Interstates...some of those signs had double back-mounts then mounted on dual posts....but they ended that practice sometime in the late 60s-early 70s

[joseph1723]

I've seen these used in Ontario on some bigger aluminum signs too except that most of them here are flat metal bars instead of pieces of U-channels or metal T-bars. The extruded aluminum signs (used for almost all BGSs)
here also have bars on the back. These bars run vertically to hold the aluminum slats together and are used at equal intervals. I also seem to recall treated or cedar wood bars being used on the backs on some of the larger plywood signs here too but I'm not quite sure about that.