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I-80 Rebuild in Illinois

Started by paulthemapguy, April 06, 2021, 02:15:45 PM

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Stephane Dumas

I wondered if the current "spaghetti interchange" at Center Street was planned for some bigger plans like a cancelled north-south freeway?


Revive 755

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on April 14, 2021, 05:18:30 PM
I wondered if the current "spaghetti interchange" at Center Street was planned for some bigger plans like a cancelled north-south freeway?

If there was such a cancelled freeway it likely died fairly early - nothing comes up in many of the transportation plans for both Chicagoland and the few I can recall for Joliet (very open to someone proving me wrong on this).

3467

All I ever found for Will was the Foxway  and various incarnations of the Illiana.
Most of the 60s plan was in Cook and Chicago opposed all but the crosstown and Daley was never big on that either.
The actual adopted plan was for 95 and it included most of the projects either being built or cancelled for good.

edwaleni

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on April 14, 2021, 05:18:30 PM
I wondered if the current "spaghetti interchange" at Center Street was planned for some bigger plans like a cancelled north-south freeway?

The easy answer is "No".

It was due to the requirements for the City of Rockdale. ( Pop. 2000 )

The little known town sits between I-80 and the Des Plaines River south of Joliet.

The main drag out of Joliet going south was US-6 (Railroad Street/Channahon Road) which was cut off from Rockdale by several railroads, the I&M Canal and West Park Ravine

To service Rockdale, pre I-80 Larkin Ave and Center Street were connected by Meadow Avenue. (Larkin has since been extended to US-6)

Looking at it today it seems illogical to put such extensive cloverleafs to serve such a little town.

Because of that I would surmise that IDOT at one time was going to bring US 6 over the Rock Island railroad and connect it to Meadow Ave/Center Street.

Instead they only extended Larkin Ave to US 6 in 1973.

Rick Powell

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on April 14, 2021, 05:18:30 PM
I wondered if the current "spaghetti interchange" at Center Street was planned for some bigger plans like a cancelled north-south freeway?
I doubt it. The interchange was designed by Casler and Stapleton of Jacksonville IL and is probably the first 3-level interchange designed in the state. I remember talking to an old timer about why they didn't do a traditional diamond there years ago, but don't recall what he told me.

Revive 755

I thought we had a thread before on how how potentially under powered the redesign of the I-80/I-55 interchange is?  I-57 at I-74 in Champaign will have more semi-direct ramps than it.  At the least NB I-55 and WB I-80 should get C-D roadways.

inkyatari

That I-55 / 80 one to me seems idiotic.  A EB-80 to NB 55 is needed way more.
I'm never wrong, just wildly inaccurate.

ilpt4u

Quote from: inkyatari on April 17, 2021, 09:08:36 PM
That I-55 / 80 one to me seems idiotic.  A EB-80 to NB 55 is needed way more.
55/80 seems like a really good place for Illinois's first Full Stack, ain't gonna lie

Rick Powell

Quote from: inkyatari on April 17, 2021, 09:08:36 PM
That I-55 / 80 one to me seems idiotic.  A EB-80 to NB 55 is needed way more.

That's the one I'd use. Fortunately, with the current design, the back to back loop entrance>exit on EB I-80 would be gone with the removal of the SW loop ramp. It's like Frogger to get in there sometimes to catch the second ramp.

CtrlAltDel

Just to help facilitate the discussion, here is the AADT of the ramps:



It does seem weird that the the flyover is going with second highest ramp. Have they explained why they decided that? If I had to guess, I'd say it's because it comes after the ramp with 6,600 and before the ramp with 10,100, and so removing it gets rid of the most weaving.
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paulthemapguy

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 18, 2021, 11:18:41 PM
It does seem weird that the the flyover is going with second highest ramp. Have they explained why they decided that? If I had to guess, I'd say it's because it comes after the ramp with 6,600 and before the ramp with 10,100, and so removing it gets rid of the most weaving.

I kind of already explained it.  It makes more sense when you consider the interchange in tandem with the one to the north leading to IL-59.  See below.

Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 08, 2021, 11:51:18 AM
I-80 at I-55 will have a SB-to-EB flyover ramp (or "fly-under" since it will go under I-80 and over I-55) and a widened NB-to-EB ramp with C/D lanes between I-55 and the Houbolt exit (127).  It might not seem that many people would leave a SSW-oriented highway to go back ENE, but a lot of people come from IL-59 to get to I-80 eastbound.  The reverse of this overall movement (WB I-80 to IL-59 NB) is already easy with the extra C/D lane on NB I-55, but the current configuration creates weave issues for all the traffic going from SB IL-59 to EB I-80.

With that said, EB-to-NB could get a flyover, too.  But keeping the EB-to-NB entry point onto I-55 NB farther south means fewer weave issues with northbound people trying to get to the right to exit onto IL-59.  With an EB-to-NB flyover entering NB I-55 north of the crossing, you'd have EB-to-NB and WB-to-NB traffic weaving with NB-to-IL59 traffic, all in a short stretch.  The SB-to-EB flyover picks up traffic that just entered SB I-55 from the IL-59 onramp on the right, and allows that traffic to stay in a C/D lane it will use to access the new flyover exiting to the right, eliminating some weaving.  The WB-to-NB-to-IL59 movement is already set up with a NB C/D lane that keeps things moving smoothly.  IDOT wants a SB counterpart to that (IL59-to-SB-to-EB) with a C/D lane people can just stay in.
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skluth

Quote from: ilpt4u on April 17, 2021, 09:12:27 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on April 17, 2021, 09:08:36 PM
That I-55 / 80 one to me seems idiotic.  A EB-80 to NB 55 is needed way more.
55/80 seems like a really good place for Illinois's first Full Stack, ain't gonna lie

Yup. Wisconsin would have built one here twenty years ago. Or something similar. There's plenty of room.

ilpt4u

Quote from: skluth on April 19, 2021, 01:40:10 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 17, 2021, 09:12:27 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on April 17, 2021, 09:08:36 PM
That I-55 / 80 one to me seems idiotic.  A EB-80 to NB 55 is needed way more.
55/80 seems like a really good place for Illinois's first Full Stack, ain't gonna lie
Yup. Wisconsin would have built one here twenty years ago. Or something similar. There's plenty of room.
Missouri would have, too, pretty sure

JoePCool14

Quote from: ilpt4u on April 19, 2021, 01:47:02 AM
Quote from: skluth on April 19, 2021, 01:40:10 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 17, 2021, 09:12:27 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on April 17, 2021, 09:08:36 PM
That I-55 / 80 one to me seems idiotic.  A EB-80 to NB 55 is needed way more.
55/80 seems like a really good place for Illinois's first Full Stack, ain't gonna lie
Yup. Wisconsin would have built one here twenty years ago. Or something similar. There's plenty of room.
Missouri would have, too, pretty sure

I'm sure at least half of other states would've already. Illinois just doesn't work like that, and likely never will.

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Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

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ilpt4u

Quote from: SSOWorld on April 19, 2021, 09:21:36 PM
In Illinois, an efficient Interchange never happens
IDK - those over-powered Directional Ys in E St Louis (both signed Exit 1 for Tudor Ave and IL 3 South) are a bit too efficient - overbuilt for freeways that never happened, and both completely underutilized

Granted, ISTHA and not IDOT, but the I-88/I-355 interchange is almost like a Full Stack, it is just split in two by the parallel carriageways segment

skluth

Quote from: ilpt4u on April 19, 2021, 09:36:03 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 19, 2021, 09:21:36 PM
In Illinois, an efficient Interchange never happens
IDK - those over-powered Directional Ys in E St Louis (both signed Exit 1 for Tudor Ave and IL 3 South) are a bit too efficient - overbuilt for freeways that never happened, and both completely underutilized

Granted, ISTHA and not IDOT, but the I-88/I-355 interchange is almost like a Full Stack, it is just split in two by the parallel carriageways segment

I never thought the IL 3 South interchange was overbuilt; there was a definite need for traffic to flow smoothly in both directions between IL 3 and the PSB. Tudor Avenue is just part of early plans that never happened. I never thought I-155 would happen. The three-way stack NW of Lincoln went unused for over a decade. I think a lot of people forget that back in the day IDOT had some forward-thinking planners.

edwaleni

Quote from: skluth on April 21, 2021, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 19, 2021, 09:36:03 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 19, 2021, 09:21:36 PM
In Illinois, an efficient Interchange never happens
IDK - those over-powered Directional Ys in E St Louis (both signed Exit 1 for Tudor Ave and IL 3 South) are a bit too efficient - overbuilt for freeways that never happened, and both completely underutilized

Granted, ISTHA and not IDOT, but the I-88/I-355 interchange is almost like a Full Stack, it is just split in two by the parallel carriageways segment

I never thought the IL 3 South interchange was overbuilt; there was a definite need for traffic to flow smoothly in both directions between IL 3 and the PSB. Tudor Avenue is just part of early plans that never happened. I never thought I-155 would happen. The three-way stack NW of Lincoln went unused for over a decade. I think a lot of people forget that back in the day IDOT had some forward-thinking planners.

I agree. By 1942 they already had all the railroads raised for several planned Chicago suburban freeways.

By 1973 they got their budgets chopped at the knees and have struggled since.

Behind the Illinois DNR, I think IDOT is the largest undeveloped land owner in Illinois.


SSOWorld

Stack interchanges in IL never go above 3 levels - Iowa and Indy too.
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.


ilpt4u


edwaleni

Quote from: skluth on April 21, 2021, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 19, 2021, 09:36:03 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 19, 2021, 09:21:36 PM
In Illinois, an efficient Interchange never happens
IDK - those over-powered Directional Ys in E St Louis (both signed Exit 1 for Tudor Ave and IL 3 South) are a bit too efficient - overbuilt for freeways that never happened, and both completely underutilized

Granted, ISTHA and not IDOT, but the I-88/I-355 interchange is almost like a Full Stack, it is just split in two by the parallel carriageways segment

I never thought the IL 3 South interchange was overbuilt; there was a definite need for traffic to flow smoothly in both directions between IL 3 and the PSB. Tudor Avenue is just part of early plans that never happened. I never thought I-155 would happen. The three-way stack NW of Lincoln went unused for over a decade. I think a lot of people forget that back in the day IDOT had some forward-thinking planners.

When the I-55/I-70 combo was being planned, East St Louis had a population of 82,000 and was growing at a 8% clip per annum.

Before the Poplar Street Bridge was built, the direct auto route was the MacArthur Bridge which was a treacherous tolled 2 lane affair that ran on top of the rail bridge.

Due to a large number of rail yards, it was very hard for EStL residents to reach the city short of driving up to the other bridges (like the Eads) or in Venice and Madison.

The McKinley Bridge had been converted from an interurban bridge to a shared auto/rail bridge to help with the traffic backups. And yes, in the 1950's the backups in East St Louis were notorious to cross the river.

So the large exit ramps at Tudor and Piggott were no doubt put in place to help the residents get across the river toll free and without the large backups for the MacArthur.

After the road was built, East St Louis fell off the face of the earth and started a 24% per year fall in population. Today, its 24,000.

Some might say the road caused the drain. Others say different.

Crash_It

Quote from: SSOWorld on April 19, 2021, 09:21:36 PM
In Illinois, an efficient Interchange never happens

Says the person who's state has a majority of it's highways in need of resurfacing or reconstruction

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: Crash_It on May 22, 2021, 07:25:46 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 19, 2021, 09:21:36 PM
In Illinois, an efficient Interchange never happens

Says the person who's state has a majority of it's highways in need of resurfacing or reconstruction

Illinois is the only state I have ever seen a warning for "EXTREME ROUGH ROAD". Don't pretend IDOT is whollly superior to WisDOT or any DOT.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

edwaleni

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 22, 2021, 07:33:42 PM
Quote from: Crash_It on May 22, 2021, 07:25:46 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 19, 2021, 09:21:36 PM
In Illinois, an efficient Interchange never happens

Says the person who's state has a majority of it's highways in need of resurfacing or reconstruction

Illinois is the only state I have ever seen a warning for "EXTREME ROUGH ROAD". Don't pretend IDOT is whollly superior to WisDOT or any DOT.

Quit blaming the DOT's. It's about the money, so blame the legislatures who have been starving their DOT's of funding to prop up public service pensions.

DOT's can do really great things when they have good, properly funded budgets. But when you are given nothing but maintenance level type of funding for years and years, the DOT's can only respond in kind.



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