PA 581 at US 11/15 Camp Hill, PA

[I94RoadRunner]

PennDot removed part of the cloverleaf at this interchange, and now it takes a left turn to go from the end of the US 11/15 freeway to PA 581 west. Here is what may solve this problem IMO should the traffic become too much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5p8KGLvsQE&list=UUS8rROgpYYrG4HQYU2uBF1g

[CentralPAGal]

Interesting concept. Would this perhaps be in conjunction with removing all at grade intersections from the Camp Hill Bypass? Maybe they could eliminate all the at-grate intersections through Dillsburg too.

Only drawback appears to be that it would be expensive, after already rebuilding/configuring the interchange once just a few years ago. Looks like it wouldn't even take up any extra real estate, presuming all other exit movements are in the same place in the concept as in actuality.

[I94RoadRunner]

Interesting concept. Would this perhaps be in conjunction with removing all at grade intersections from the Camp Hill Bypass? Maybe they could eliminate all the at-grate intersections through Dillsburg too.

Only drawback appears to be that it would be expensive, after already rebuilding/configuring the interchange once just a few years ago. Looks like it wouldn't even take up any extra real estate, presuming all other exit movements are in the same place in the concept as in actuality.

Yes, there would be a bit of a price tag associated with this flyover concept for sure. Though with PennDOT making the W-S loop ramp 3 lanes now, this flyover might be a justified addition in the future.

So there is a Camp Hill bypass planned .....? Where would that run, I have not heard of that project.

IMO the stretch of US 15 between Harrisburg, PA and Frederick, MD should be considered for an extended I-270, which Dillsburg's at grades would need to be removed. Also more justification for the new ramp I designed!

[cpzilliacus]

PennDot removed part of the cloverleaf at this interchange, and now it takes a left turn to go from the end of the US 11/15 freeway to PA 581 west. Here is what may solve this problem IMO should the traffic become too much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5p8KGLvsQE&list=UUS8rROgpYYrG4HQYU2uBF1g

Interesting concept. Would this perhaps be in conjunction with removing all at grade intersections from the Camp Hill Bypass? Maybe they could eliminate all the at-grate intersections through Dillsburg too.

This from the state that invented the non-interchange known as the breezewood.

[I94RoadRunner]

PennDot removed part of the cloverleaf at this interchange, and now it takes a left turn to go from the end of the US 11/15 freeway to PA 581 west. Here is what may solve this problem IMO should the traffic become too much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5p8KGLvsQE&list=UUS8rROgpYYrG4HQYU2uBF1g

Interesting concept. Would this perhaps be in conjunction with removing all at grade intersections from the Camp Hill Bypass? Maybe they could eliminate all the at-grate intersections through Dillsburg too.

This from the state that invented the non-interchange known as the breezewood.

Ok, good point! LOL

[NE2]

This from the state that invented the non-interchange known as the breezewood.

Ohio? I-280 had a number of at-grades north of the Ohio Turnpike from the 1950s, several years before any such "Breezewoods" in Pennsylvania, until the 1980s.

[briantroutman]

So there is a Camp Hill bypass planned .....? Where would that run, I have not heard of that project.

Not currently, to my knowledge. In the days before most of Harrisburg's freeway network was in place, the PDH had  plans for a "West Shore Expressway" that would have run along the 11/15 corridor from Camp Hill to Enola. (They also had plans for a parallel East Shore Expressway running along Cameron Street). But according to the Reading Eagle, the West Shore Expressway was already in jeopardy by the late '60s.

Today, PennDOT considers 581-81 to be the "Camp Hill Bypass"–hence signage like this and the reason for the "Capital Beltway" markers. I don't think we'll see any new freeways in Harrisburg in any of our lifetimes. We'll be lucky if they widen I-83 to six lanes.

[I94RoadRunner]

So there is a Camp Hill bypass planned .....? Where would that run, I have not heard of that project.

Not currently, to my knowledge. In the days before most of Harrisburg's freeway network was in place, the PDH had  plans for a "West Shore Expressway" that would have run along the 11/15 corridor from Camp Hill to Enola. (They also had plans for a parallel East Shore Expressway running along Cameron Street). But according to the Reading Eagle, the West Shore Expressway was already in jeopardy by the late '60s.

Today, PennDOT considers 581-81 to be the "Camp Hill Bypass"—hence signage like this and the reason for the "Capital Beltway" markers. I don't think we'll see any new freeways in Harrisburg in any of our lifetimes. We'll be lucky if they widen I-83 to six lanes.

I remember the stretch of US 11/15 narrowing from 4 lanes to two just south of the cloverleaf with I-81 and then being a 30mph street until US 11/15 turned westward onto Walnut St toward Cumberland Blvd where they merged with the Harvey Taylor Bridge Blvd and once again turned 4 lanes. Never knew that there were any plans to connect US 11/15 as freeway to I-81 at any point .....

[jpi]

This is why the 11/15 interchange at I-81 is designed like it is. I never knew there were plans for a West Shore EXPWAY until Jeff Kitsko posted it on his website. Back in the mid to late 90's there was serious talk about making a Dillsburg by-pass but that has not come into fruitation and the Lisburn Rd exit on US 15 is the most recent elimination of an at grade cross road. I will admit the re-vamped 11/15/581 JCT does function better then what it did before.

[vdeane]

I want to know why they have a three-lane loop ramp in the first place.  Isn't the freeway bypass of the city streets PA 581 and I-81 on the west side?  Looking at the interchange, you'd think it was I-83.

[NE2]

This needed to be a video.

[CentralPAGal]

So there is a Camp Hill bypass planned .....? Where would that run, I have not heard of that project.

Today, PennDOT considers 581-81 to be the "Camp Hill Bypass"–hence signage like this and the reason for the "Capital Beltway" markers. I don't think we'll see any new freeways in Harrisburg in any of our lifetimes. We'll be lucky if they widen I-83 to six lanes.

I'm not sure about that... I have only heard "Camp Hill Bypass" in reference to four lane arterial route extending from the end of the expressway, and wrapping around the north side of the community, leading down to the Susquehanna river, where 11/15 turns north. I think 15 used to go through Lemoyne, and 11 used to follow Market Street through Camp Hill and Lemoyne. When they built the current alignment, the routes were moved to the new alignment. The capitol beltway is unrelated. On an unrelated note, it'd be nice to see that be all interstate though... If only they'd upgrade/widen 581...

I want to know why they have a three-lane loop ramp in the first place.  Isn't the freeway bypass of the city streets PA 581 and I-81 on the west side?  Looking at the interchange, you'd think it was I-83.

There is (and always has been) a light on that ramp, so I believe that arrangement is just to allow for more traffic without it backing up all the way down to the highway (more of an issue before the rebuild though).

[briantroutman]

I'm not sure about that... I have only heard "Camp Hill Bypass" in reference to four lane arterial route...

You're more or less right–officially speaking. The official designation "Camp Hill Bypass" specifically refers to the section of that arterial near Holy Spirit Hospital and the Radisson–where 11/15 traffic splits away from Harvey Taylor Bridge traffic and continues toward Wormleysburg.

I was using that term in a more practical sense–meaning, a way 11/15 traffic can get around Camp Hill without going on surface streets.

[I94RoadRunner]

So there is a Camp Hill bypass planned .....? Where would that run, I have not heard of that project.

Today, PennDOT considers 581-81 to be the "Camp Hill Bypass"—hence signage like this and the reason for the "Capital Beltway" markers. I don't think we'll see any new freeways in Harrisburg in any of our lifetimes. We'll be lucky if they widen I-83 to six lanes.

I'm not sure about that... I have only heard "Camp Hill Bypass" in reference to four lane arterial route extending from the end of the expressway, and wrapping around the north side of the community, leading down to the Susquehanna river, where 11/15 turns north. I think 15 used to go through Lemoyne, and 11 used to follow Market Street through Camp Hill and Lemoyne. When they built the current alignment, the routes were moved to the new alignment. The capitol beltway is unrelated. On an unrelated note, it'd be nice to see that be all interstate though... If only they'd upgrade/widen 581...

I want to know why they have a three-lane loop ramp in the first place.  Isn't the freeway bypass of the city streets PA 581 and I-81 on the west side?  Looking at the interchange, you'd think it was I-83.

There is (and always has been) a light on that ramp, so I believe that arrangement is just to allow for more traffic without it backing up all the way down to the highway (more of an issue before the rebuild though).

Yes, I recall this light when we took this route to DC as a child and it had a 2 lane ramp from PA 581 West to US 11/15 south. Part of the reason I devised that flyover I drew out on paper - to bypass that light at long last. It probably is not needed yet, however give it 10 to 15 years and that could be another story!

[CentralPAGal]

I'm not sure about that... I have only heard "Camp Hill Bypass" in reference to four lane arterial route...

You're more or less right–officially speaking. The official designation "Camp Hill Bypass" specifically refers to the section of that arterial near Holy Spirit Hospital and the Radisson–where 11/15 traffic splits away from Harvey Taylor Bridge traffic and continues toward Wormleysburg.

I was using that term in a more practical sense–meaning, a way 11/15 traffic can get around Camp Hill without going on surface streets.

Ah, ok, I misunderstood what you meant. My mistake. I'd agree with you on that then.

[vdeane]

There is (and always has been) a light on that ramp, so I believe that arrangement is just to allow for more traffic without it backing up all the way down to the highway (more of an issue before the rebuild though).

Silly PennDOT, putting a traffic light on a freeway-freeway ramp.

It's debatable, but I think this interchange might qualify as a honorary breezewood.

[I94RoadRunner]

There is (and always has been) a light on that ramp, so I believe that arrangement is just to allow for more traffic without it backing up all the way down to the highway (more of an issue before the rebuild though).

Silly PennDOT, putting a traffic light on a freeway-freeway ramp.

It's debatable, but I think this interchange might qualify as a honorary breezewood.

It does sort of, however the traffic does flow reasonably well for now .....

[sbeaver44]

This may be a rare case where a traffic light on a highway actually improved things, although adding the collector-depositor lanes also helped.  The old merge from 15 N - 581 W was horrible and traffic would typically come to a stop and back up half the ramp. 

Whoever said 11 went through Camp Hill and 15 went through Lemoyne is exactly correct.  That is what the "Camp Hill Bypass" refers to -- not having to go "through" Camp Hill, although with all the development on the 32nd Street stretch of 11-15, the "Bypass" isn't much of one.

The 11-15 interchange with 81, while oddly 4-lane, has little to do with the West Shore Expressway.  Looking at the 1970 East Pennsboro Township plan, the West Shore Expressway would have interchanged with 11-15 on top of the Harvey Taylor Bypass (then US 22 Bypass) interchange.  (I guess that it would have continued south towards the current 83-581 interchange, but I can't say that with certainty since 83 never enters East Pennsboro and this is the only map I can find.)  The West Shore Expressway would have run almost exactly where East Penn Drive/Center St/Salt Rd runs along side the Conodoquinet Creek and then towards 81.  It then would have interchanged with 81 at a Semi-Directional Y near mile 63.  If you look at satellite view, you'll notice 81's median widens considerably (near Tower Road) for about an interchange's length and then immediately comes back together before the 11-15 interchange.

[I94RoadRunner]

This may be a rare case where a traffic light on a highway actually improved things, although adding the collector-depositor lanes also helped.  The old merge from 15 N - 581 W was horrible and traffic would typically come to a stop and back up half the ramp. 

Whoever said 11 went through Camp Hill and 15 went through Lemoyne is exactly correct.  That is what the "Camp Hill Bypass" refers to -- not having to go "through" Camp Hill, although with all the development on the 32nd Street stretch of 11-15, the "Bypass" isn't much of one.

The 11-15 interchange with 81, while oddly 4-lane, has little to do with the West Shore Expressway.  Looking at the 1970 East Pennsboro Township plan, the West Shore Expressway would have interchanged with 11-15 on top of the Harvey Taylor Bypass (then US 22 Bypass) interchange.  (I guess that it would have continued south towards the current 83-581 interchange, but I can't say that with certainty since 83 never enters East Pennsboro and this is the only map I can find.)  The West Shore Expressway would have run almost exactly where East Penn Drive/Center St/Salt Rd runs along side the Conodoquinet Creek and then towards 81.  It then would have interchanged with 81 at a Semi-Directional Y near mile 63.  If you look at satellite view, you'll notice 81's median widens considerably (near Tower Road) for about an interchange's length and then immediately comes back together before the 11-15 interchange.

Interesting ..... Thanks for sharing!

[briantroutman]

The 11-15 interchange with 81, while oddly 4-lane, has little to do with the West Shore Expressway.

And even so, it seemed to be a common practice in Pennsylvania, particularly for Interstates constructed in the '60s and '70s, to widen intersecting routes out to four lanes in the immediate vicinity–sometimes to semi-expressway proportions with medians and wide shoulders. Often, the intersecting routes were two-lane rural roads before construction of the Interstate, and the relatively low traffic volumes wouldn't seem to have warranted the increase in capacity then (and in some cases, now), and in most cases, the roads revert back to rural arterials immediately after.

A few examples on I-81 are PA 934 and US 209. And on I-80, US 219, PA 150 (former US 220), and PA 54.

I don't know if this was just spending federal money (because they could), staking out ROW for later upgrades to the surface road, or just what.