Today is the Transgender Day Of Visibility. In case you hadn't noticed, I AM TRANS. You know a transgender person. You probably know multiple trans people, given that you know me (one) and hundreds of other people (probably at least one more). And that's not even considering the effect of overlapping social networks and the various trans people I know. Any questions about my transness?
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/1b0fd7c4f0c7f8e5cf036067d460339b/tumblr_ono9fqrlru1uxw370o1_540.jpg)
(I know for most of you, this isn't a big deal at all, and maybe you'd rather not have it "in your face", but here it is anyway for reasons other people are better at explaining than I am. I'm posting this in as many social media outlets as I can think of, because visibility. I broke an 8-year silence on LiveJournal for this.)
No problems here, don't let my state of residence fool you.
Good for you that you are able to come out from behind the curtain, maybe you will inspire others to do so as well.
I have gay friends, trans-gendered friends, straight friends-they are all still friends and I hate even categorizing them to make a point in a post.
I myself am straight, but I for the life of me figure out what all the hub-bub is about, to be honest.
As you suggest, it's not a big deal to me, although I recognize it is likely a big deal for you. I know other people who've gone through this... and I've been reading the likes of El Goonish Shive and Misfile for over a decade (they may interest you if you're not already familiar with them).
That said I do have two questions:
1) You had previously identified as a gay male. Does your transition mean you are now a straight female, or have you moved on the Kinsey scale as well?
2) What is the significance of the image in your post?
Hey! I'm trans too! Cool to see that I'm not the only one on this website lol
Hope you have a nice day!
Quote from: slorydn1 on March 31, 2017, 03:55:06 PMNo problems here, don't let my state of residence fool you.
Surely the bathroom issue is less about fear of trans people and more about fear the system being open to abuse with people pretending to be trans? At least, it seems like the arguments of people are more along the lines of "I'm fine with trans women in the ladies' bathroom, but what if a pervert man come to peep lies to security/police that he's a trans woman so he can go on perving and those who were worried about his presence were treated as hate criminals?" rather than "trans women aren't women and shouldn't be in the ladies'".
The abuse of the 'loophole' worry is a somewhat understandable objection to the nonsense notion that gender is a purely social construct (with as many different flavours as ice cream - which gives ammo to the alt-right that its most of this is about identity politics and making 'snowflakes' feel special rather than actual identity - and the alt-right jerks have half a point: is there really a need to divide a spectrum so finely that you differentiate chartreuse and lime?), and thus no more than a label that we can pick or choose at will. Such social constructivism tragically trivialises trans issues and needs to be consigned to the scrap heap - if gender is a mere label, then being bothered about being mislabelled is surely just a minor annoyance (like 'goths' being called 'emo'), and 'a work in progress' makes no sense as it's all a label that can be picked up or dropped off as quick as a make-over.
The biggest problem trans people probably have when it comes to acceptance is that notion that gender is more than just culture, more than just biology, and (most 'heretical' of all) it actually matters enough to go through a huge amount of physical and mental torment just to become the correct gender inside and out (rather than either fatalistically accept the biology, or transcend the cultural captivity) is a massive challenge to how basically everyone has been taught to think about equality, gender, etc (because we've been taught bollocks despite the presence of better arguments).
It's a very serious issue that, as (for example) Germaine Greer et al have shitty arguments to create their identity and justify their equality (hers being that gender is just wombs and balls and such like), trans concerns being voiced that undermine the shitty arguments and are thus 'taking away' their identity and equality makes trans people seem like an existentialist threat to such people and thus the fight for even the recognition that trans people exist and have real struggles that aren't just some mental illness will be a hard one. But it's a fight worth making - not least as shitty arguments propping up a lot of LGBQIA thinking (to give a second example) would be replaced with better ones.
Keep going. I doubt it will get easier, at least in the medium term, but it will definitely not change at all without forward movement.
Quote from: english si on March 31, 2017, 10:53:44 PM
Surely the bathroom issue is less about fear of trans people and more about fear the system being open to abuse with people pretending to be trans? At least, it seems like the arguments of people are more along the lines of "I'm fine with trans women in the ladies' bathroom, but what if a pervert man come to peep lies to security/police that he's a trans woman so he can go on perving and those who were worried about his presence were treated as hate criminals?" rather than "trans women aren't women and shouldn't be in the ladies'".
What exactly the bathroom issue is about will vary depending on who you ask, as people do not form opinions in perfectly homogeneous blocs. Both of these lines of thinking exist, and the latter ("trans women aren't women") is not uncommon.
That said, North Carolina's infamous law does more or less follow the former line of thinking: since the law defines "biological sex" as what your birth certificate says*, someone who is MTF trans and has had her birth certificate legally changed is allowed and in fact required to use the ladies' room. The individuals negatively impacted by the law are those who have not yet done this paperwork, or who cannot because the jurisdiction in which they were born does not allow such changes to be made.
*which is different from the scientific definition of "biological sex" that's typically used when discussing gender issues, leading to some understandable confusion about what exactly the law does and does not allow.
Quote from: Duke87 on March 31, 2017, 09:44:21 PM
As you suggest, it's not a big deal to me, although I recognize it is likely a big deal for you. I know other people who've gone through this... and I've been reading the likes of El Goonish Shive and Misfile for over a decade (they may interest you if you're not already familiar with them).
That said I do have two questions:
1) You had previously identified as a gay male. Does your transition mean you are now a straight female, or have you moved on the Kinsey scale as well?
2) What is the significance of the image in your post?
0) I'm a big fan of EGS and have been since '02 or '03. I haven't read Misfile, but I believe I've heard others mention it before.
1) I have never labeled myself as gay, except maybe as a casual shorthand for part of the LGBT community. Since 2002 I have characterized my orientation as bisexual, though in recent years I've learned pansexual is probably a more accurate label. (It's not a huge difference.) The neat thing about being bi or pan is the meaning is pretty much the same regardless of one's own gender. As far as my identity, I should probably clarify. Your conclusion that I've adopted a female identity is understandable, but since I began examining my own gender identity in '14, I've concluded that I'm probably best described as bigender. I associate myself somewhat with both maleness and femaleness to comparable degrees. I'm fine with any pronouns, preferring she and he used interchangeably. All this is consistent with a broad definition of transgender: my gender identity is something other than that which was assigned at birth.
2) The image is the transgender pride flag, surrounded by various specific gender identity flags. This is meant to represent the broad diversity of the extended transgender community. All these flag images were taken from the Pride Flags category on gender.wikia.com because I threw that graphic together in a hurry last night.
Si, most of what you said went way over my head, but I think you criticised the bit of custom text next to my avatar? I forgot that was even there. I think it was meant to acknowledge a desire for self-improvement, but I can see how it might be read as some kind of false humility bullshit. Should I remove it?
Quote from: english si on March 31, 2017, 10:53:44 PM
At least, it seems like the arguments of people are more along the lines of "I'm fine with trans women in the ladies' bathroom, but what if a pervert man come to peep lies to security/police that he's a trans woman so he can go on perving and those who were worried about his presence were treated as hate criminals?" rather than "trans women aren't women and shouldn't be in the ladies'".
This argument never makes sense to me. Surely everyone can imagine a pervert man peeping in the men's restroom. (For instance, a certain wide-stanced senator...) What do we do in that case? Why can't we apply the same solution if someone is claiming to be transgender?
Quote from: Duke87 on March 31, 2017, 11:47:37 PM
Quote from: english si on March 31, 2017, 10:53:44 PM
Surely the bathroom issue is less about fear of trans people and more about fear the system being open to abuse with people pretending to be trans? At least, it seems like the arguments of people are more along the lines of "I'm fine with trans women in the ladies' bathroom, but what if a pervert man come to peep lies to security/police that he's a trans woman so he can go on perving and those who were worried about his presence were treated as hate criminals?" rather than "trans women aren't women and shouldn't be in the ladies'".
What exactly the bathroom issue is about will vary depending on who you ask, as people do not form opinions in perfectly homogeneous blocs. Both of these lines of thinking exist, and the latter ("trans women aren't women") is not uncommon.
That said, North Carolina's infamous law does more or less follow the former line of thinking: since the law defines "biological sex" as what your birth certificate says*, someone who is MTF trans and has had her birth certificate legally changed is allowed and in fact required to use the ladies' room. The individuals negatively impacted by the law are those who have not yet done this paperwork, or who cannot because the jurisdiction in which they were born does not allow such changes to be made.
*which is different from the scientific definition of "biological sex" that's typically used when discussing gender issues, leading to some understandable confusion about what exactly the law does and does not allow.
NC recently repealed HB2 with a compromise replacement.
http://www.wral.com/hb2-repealed-but-many-unhappy-with-reset-/16615133/ (http://www.wral.com/hb2-repealed-but-many-unhappy-with-reset-/16615133/)
Without getting too political, there was a bunch of other BS that was attached to HB2 besides the bathroom issue. HB2 was a steaming pile of shit IMO, and a big reason why Pat McCrory lost his gubernatorial re-election bid last November. A lot of people that had supported Gov. Roy Cooper's campaign last year are pissed off at him for signing the compromise bill, but if they hadn't been living under a rock, they would've known that the current makeup of the General Assembly (especially Sen. Phil Berger) would never let a clean no-strings-attached repeal happen. Cooper didn't really have any choice but to accept the compromise. He did the right thing, IMO.
I'll leave it at that.
There is the gay/straight universe with plenty of diversity. The TG universe is a much smaller one but is equally diverse. Back in 1968 I read a book called "Sexuality and Homosexuality", which dealt with a whole lot more than that as nearly 20 categories of sexual expression were discussed in this rather thick tome. We are amazing creatures when it comes to all the varieties we express ourselves with! As Mr. Spock mentioned in the original Star Trek series, IDIC, Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. He was right!
As for NC's bathroom bill law, what happened is that Trump won (he stood by the LBGT community during the election) and the incumbent GOP governor (anti-LGBT) lost there, which shows the truth behind Americans not being a majority of socially conservative types. The majority of Americans also support legalizing MJ. There's hope for some measure of the pursuit of happiness perhaps to go along with life and liberty.
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on April 01, 2017, 01:42:11 PM
As for NC's bathroom bill law, what happened is that Trump won (he stood by the LBGT community during the election)
He revoked an executive order granting protections to federal LGBT employees. So much for standing by them.
Quote from: sibelle-marie on March 31, 2017, 09:48:18 PM
Hey! I'm trans too! Cool to see that I'm not the only one on this website lol
Hope you have a nice day!
Always good to see another one of us around here.
Quote from: nexus73 on April 01, 2017, 01:42:11 PMAs for NC's bathroom bill law, what happened is that Trump won (he stood by the LBGT community during the election) and the incumbent GOP governor (anti-LGBT) lost there
McCrory losing support from Lake Norman area conservatives over his refusal to cancel the controversial I-77 toll lane project didn't help him, either.
Quote from: vtk on April 01, 2017, 03:29:57 AM
Your conclusion that I've adopted a female identity is understandable, but since I began examining my own gender identity in '14, I've concluded that I'm probably best described as bigender. I associate myself somewhat with both maleness and femaleness to comparable degrees. I'm fine with any pronouns, preferring she and he used interchangeably. All this is consistent with a broad definition of transgender: my gender identity is something other than that which was assigned at birth.
Ah, and now your avatar makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
To me, being trans and being non-binary are separate and distinct concepts. I would not have thought to refer to the latter as the former.
I was lurking, hoping I would have something profound to say, but I don't really. Just...I see you. I am happy to talk roads - and other subjects - with you and others on this board.
As the Vulcans say, Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
I'm not what you call a cis-gendered man, although I'm a straight biological male, I describe myself as gender-fluid or bi-gender. There is a variety and diversity of transgenders, non-conforming and gender identification. Caitlyn Jenner herself is attracted to women, when she was Bruce, "he" had 3 marriages later ended in divorce.
Quote from: Desert Man on April 02, 2017, 10:47:36 PM
I'm not what you call a cis-gendered man, although I'm a straight biological male, I describe myself as gender-fluid or bi-gender. There is a variety and diversity of transgenders, non-conforming and gender identification. Caitlyn Jenner herself is attracted to women, when she was Bruce, "he" had 3 marriages later ended in divorce.
Serious question, should "zhe" (professor Jordan Peterson over at U of Toronto has made a stink about that word recently) still have the gold medal from Men's Decathlon at the 1976 Montreal games? How in the world can a woman hold a gold medal in MEN'S Decathlon?
Quote from: MisterSG1 on April 02, 2017, 11:26:35 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on April 02, 2017, 10:47:36 PM
I'm not what you call a cis-gendered man, although I'm a straight biological male, I describe myself as gender-fluid or bi-gender. There is a variety and diversity of transgenders, non-conforming and gender identification. Caitlyn Jenner herself is attracted to women, when she was Bruce, "he" had 3 marriages later ended in divorce.
Serious question, should "zhe" (professor Jordan Peterson over at U of Toronto has made a stink about that word recently) still have the gold medal from Men's Decathlon at the 1976 Montreal games? How in the world can a woman hold a gold medal in MEN'S Decathlon?
She identified as male in 1976. It's not necessarily a retroactive change.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 03, 2017, 04:17:13 AM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on April 02, 2017, 11:26:35 PM
Serious question, should "zhe" (professor Jordan Peterson over at U of Toronto has made a stink about that word recently) still have the gold medal from Men's Decathlon at the 1976 Montreal games? How in the world can a woman hold a gold medal in MEN'S Decathlon?
She identified as male in 1976. It's not necessarily a retroactive change.
And, more importantly for the sake of athletic fairness, had a masculine body. That is, after all, why we separate sports into men's and women's events in the first place.
Quote from: MisterSG1 on April 02, 2017, 11:26:35 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on April 02, 2017, 10:47:36 PM
I'm not what you call a cis-gendered man, although I'm a straight biological male, I describe myself as gender-fluid or bi-gender. There is a variety and diversity of transgenders, non-conforming and gender identification. Caitlyn Jenner herself is attracted to women, when she was Bruce, "he" had 3 marriages later ended in divorce.
Serious question, should "zhe" (professor Jordan Peterson over at U of Toronto has made a stink about that word recently) still have the gold medal from Men's Decathlon at the 1976 Montreal games? How in the world can a woman hold a gold medal in MEN'S Decathlon?
As my previous boss liked to say, "life is analog", as in it has all the imperfections of analog audio/video instead of the crisp, precise nature of digital.
Do we even know how Caitlyn actually identified in her Olympic days? Everyone else thought she was a man, but did she, or was she simply silent about being transgender?
I have an old friend from college who was a straight male and has transitioned to a lesbian female. I had lost touch with her around 2001 or 2002 since she (he at the time) lived in Metro Atlanta while I was in Greater Nashville, and she was going through financial difficulties as well as changing phone numbers and moving around a lot, including a failed trip to the Canadian border to apply for exile. When I caught back up with her in 2008, I learned he was a she and, of course, her wife admitted that she wasn't really bisexual but was also lesbian and only loves her. I always judge a person by character, and if I consider you a friend it's for life unless you intentionally cross me. So of course I accepted her without question, and I guess became a lot more open-minded about these things in general.
Anyway, it took some time, but her parents eventually accepted her, in spite of their Pentecostal beliefs, and she currently lives with them. Her brothers, of course, accepted her right away, as well as the rest of her blood family and pretty much all of her friends who counted.. Her biggest "enemies", per se, were her Southern Baptist in-laws. Anyway, a few months after they moved from Atlanta back to Tennessee in 2010, her wife suddenly passed away. She had a heart condition and truthfully we were lucky to have had her as long as we did (I think something like what John Ritter had). It was tied for one of the saddest funerals I had ever been to. And I'm sure the evil in-laws, though sad to have lost a daughter, were, sadly, equally glad to be able to cut ties with their "freak" of a son-in-law who couldn't provide for their baby due to his inability to hold down a job because of who he was.
Anyway, she has had a very rough time since then, and has considered suicide a number of times, but has a great circle of friends (of which I'm proud to include myself) who have supported her and her struggles living life in a small conservative Southern college town. And she helps support a recently created LGBT advocacy group for that region of Tennessee.
So anyway, despite my current state of residence, and my political leanings (which generally are very independent despite voting for right-wingers most of the time), it's no big deal to me, and I am glad to hear you have had the courage to let the world know who you are without fear. Far far far too often, the courage is not there, and tragic events happen.
Quote from: vtk on April 04, 2017, 02:12:42 AM
Do we even know how Caitlyn actually identified in her Olympic days? Everyone else thought she was a man, but did she, or was she simply silent about being transgender?
That's probably something you (or a reporter) would have to ask her.
The name makes it sound like an Orwellian "let's dox the transpeople" day.
Quote from: NE2 on April 04, 2017, 09:47:29 PM
The name makes it sound like an Orwellian "let's dox the transpeople" day.
I considered making a joke that on Trans Day of Visibility, Trans people had to be careful not to do the things that they could normally do when they're invisible on the other days of the year, such as making people think their houses are haunted. :-P I decided against it though.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on April 06, 2017, 10:27:28 AM
Quote from: NE2 on April 04, 2017, 09:47:29 PM
The name makes it sound like an Orwellian "let's dox the transpeople" day.
I considered making a joke that on Trans Day of Visibility, Trans people had to be careful not to do the things that they could normally do when they're invisible on the other days of the year, such as making people think their houses are haunted. :-P I decided against it though.
Made me smirk.