Interstate 40 within California is carried from Barstow east through the Mojave Desert and Bristol Mountains to the Arizona State Line. While Interstate 40 doesn't really carry the roadside nostalgia of US Route 66 and the National Old Trails Road it does have one of the strangest chapters in American Highway History in the form of Operation Carryall. Operation Carryall was a project floated to the Atomic Energy Commission by the ATSF and California Division of Highways which would have utilized 22 nuclear blasts to excavate a dual purpose pass in the Bristol Mountains. Ultimately Operation Carryall never was implemented but Interstate 40 was largely constructed as planned. Interstate 40 offers one of the remote freeway driving experiences in the United States as it skirts numerous former rail sidings/ghost towns on the outskirts of the Mojave National Preserve through much of it's alignment.
https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/03/interstate-40-and-h-bomb.html
I-40 and I-15 differ in the fact that I-40 has maybe 3-4 rest/gas stops in between Barstow and Needles, while I-15 offers way more services in between Barstow and the NV state border. It really makes I-40 seem like a more desolate, looooong drive.
Quote from: RZF on March 29, 2021, 07:45:44 PM
I-40 and I-15 differ in the fact that I-40 has maybe 3-4 rest/gas stops in between Barstow and Needles, while I-15 offers way more services in between Barstow and the NV state border. It really makes I-40 seem like a more desolate, looooong drive.
Which is understandable, considering the fact that I-15, underpowered as it currently is, hosts a considerably higher overall volume of traffic than does I-40 simply due to the weekend jaunts by metro L.A. folks to Las Vegas, at least pre-COVID (and it'll eventually return to a relatively high level at some point). More traffic = more opportunities for on-road businesses like those in Baker and up on Halloran Summit. NV has taken that to another level, actually making roadside stopovers destinations in themselves (i.e. Primm, Jean). I-40?...not so much. The only major recreational area within a days' drive of L.A. is the Colorado River/Lake Havasu outdoor "fun site" to the south of I-40 as well as Laughlin to the north -- but both pale in comparison with Vegas when it comes to traffic in & out. Also, I-15 more or less hews to the old US 91 alignment; some of the roadside businesses were there before the Interstate was completed in the '60's. I-40 more or less "straightlined" the former/historic US 66 through Amboy, so there are few "hangover" businesses outside of just east of Barstow as well as those in and around Needles. I-40 seems desolate because it
is desolate! Saving grace -- it's a pretty fast trip!
Does anyone think Interstate 40 will ever be extended westward to Bakersfield or further? It's been talked about for decades, and rejected both in 1956 and 1968. Or is it as likely as CA 99 south of Sacramento joining the Interstate System?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 29, 2021, 10:12:07 PM
Does anyone think Interstate 40 will ever be extended westward to Bakersfield or further? It's been talked about for decades, and rejected both in 1956 and 1968. Or is it as likely as CA 99 south of Sacramento joining the Interstate System?
Probably less likely than CA 99. At minimum CA 99 has been somewhat recently explored as a viable Interstate corridor. CA 99 is far more likely to get upgrades that will bring it closer to Interstate standards given the traffic volume is massive through much of the Central Valley.
Regarding CA 58, there isn't much justification outside of the Centennial Corridor for much of an expansion. I can see CA 223 getting a full interchange someday but the rest of the highway east of Bakersfield is functionally adequate (maybe throw in an eastbound climbing lane to Tehachapi Summit) at this point.
I-40 in California has always been interesting as it goes through absolutely no population centers and doesn't have many uses for car traffic, although trucks heavily depend on it.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 29, 2021, 10:16:19 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 29, 2021, 10:12:07 PM
Does anyone think Interstate 40 will ever be extended westward to Bakersfield or further? It's been talked about for decades, and rejected both in 1956 and 1968. Or is it as likely as CA 99 south of Sacramento joining the Interstate System?
Probably less likely than CA 99. At minimum CA 99 has been somewhat recently explored as a viable Interstate corridor. CA 99 is far more likely to get upgrades that will bring it closer to Interstate standards given the traffic volume is massive through much of the Central Valley.
Regarding CA 58, there isn't much justification outside of the Centennial Corridor for much of an expansion. I can see CA 223 getting a full interchange someday but the rest of the highway east of Bakersfield is functionally adequate (maybe throw in an eastbound climbing lane to Tehachapi Summit) at this point.
What's interesting is back around 1987, when doing a study regarding the prospects of CA 99 for some Fresno-area activists looking to funnel $$ toward 99 upgrades (and potential I-status), I posed the question to engineers at Caltrans HQ about the relative efficacy of CA 99 as an Interstate versus an interregional connector like CA 58 -- and the answer was surprising, given the fact that 99 traffic was at a very high level even back 34 years ago -- the concurrence was that the agency would favor elevating CA 58 to Interstate status before considering CA 99! Of course, this was prior to (a) the CA 99 "master plan" being formulated, and (b) that route's inclusion as a "future Interstate" corridor (HPC #54) in the 2005 SAFETEA-LU act. But then again, it was Caltrans that put up CA 58 as an Interstate addition back in the initial round of consideration for the 1968 batch of chargeable additions; subsequently discarded when those additions were cut back by two-thirds. And since the '68 additions haven't been repeated, particularly in regard to chargeability/90% federal share, CA 58's progress continues piecemeal -- never even singled out for high-priority corridor inclusion. Maybe someday -- just not in the immediate forecast.
I-40 taking over CA 58 to Bakersfield has a lot less to do in order to get it up to interstate standards. But CA 99 has some boosters actively campaigning for it. So it could go either way. Caltrans and most of the legislature doesn't really care about interstate status that doesn't have any money attached to it. I wouldn't look for either of them to happen this decade.
Quote from: kkt on March 31, 2021, 09:19:58 PM
I-40 taking over CA 58 to Bakersfield has a lot less to do in order to get it up to interstate standards. But CA 99 has some boosters actively campaigning for it. So it could go either way. Caltrans and most of the legislature doesn't really care about interstate status that doesn't have any money attached to it. I wouldn't look for either of them to happen this decade.
More so, aside from putting a real junction at CA 223 I don't see what added benefit Interstate standards nets CA 58. 99 (and really US 101) are where widenings and reconfigured interchanges are going to make an impact. The Merced County segment of 99 is being worked on which really leaves the only big subpar gap as southern Tulare County.
Quote from: sparker on March 29, 2021, 10:46:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 29, 2021, 10:16:19 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 29, 2021, 10:12:07 PM
Does anyone think Interstate 40 will ever be extended westward to Bakersfield or further? It's been talked about for decades, and rejected both in 1956 and 1968. Or is it as likely as CA 99 south of Sacramento joining the Interstate System?
Probably less likely than CA 99. At minimum CA 99 has been somewhat recently explored as a viable Interstate corridor. CA 99 is far more likely to get upgrades that will bring it closer to Interstate standards given the traffic volume is massive through much of the Central Valley.
Regarding CA 58, there isn't much justification outside of the Centennial Corridor for much of an expansion. I can see CA 223 getting a full interchange someday but the rest of the highway east of Bakersfield is functionally adequate (maybe throw in an eastbound climbing lane to Tehachapi Summit) at this point.
What's interesting is back around 1987, when doing a study regarding the prospects of CA 99 for some Fresno-area activists looking to funnel $$ toward 99 upgrades (and potential I-status), I posed the question to engineers at Caltrans HQ about the relative efficacy of CA 99 as an Interstate versus an interregional connector like CA 58 -- and the answer was surprising, given the fact that 99 traffic was at a very high level even back 34 years ago -- the concurrence was that the agency would favor elevating CA 58 to Interstate status before considering CA 99! Of course, this was prior to (a) the CA 99 "master plan" being formulated, and (b) that route's inclusion as a "future Interstate" corridor (HPC #54) in the 2005 SAFETEA-LU act. But then again, it was Caltrans that put up CA 58 as an Interstate addition back in the initial round of consideration for the 1968 batch of chargeable additions; subsequently discarded when those additions were cut back by two-thirds. And since the '68 additions haven't been repeated, particularly in regard to chargeability/90% federal share, CA 58's progress continues piecemeal -- never even singled out for high-priority corridor inclusion. Maybe someday -- just not in the immediate forecast.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 31, 2021, 09:22:41 PM
Quote from: kkt on March 31, 2021, 09:19:58 PM
I-40 taking over CA 58 to Bakersfield has a lot less to do in order to get it up to interstate standards. But CA 99 has some boosters actively campaigning for it. So it could go either way. Caltrans and most of the legislature doesn't really care about interstate status that doesn't have any money attached to it. I wouldn't look for either of them to happen this decade.
More so, aside from putting a real junction at CA 223 I don't see what added benefit Interstate standards nets CA 58. 99 (and really US 101) are where widenings and reconfigured interchanges are going to make an impact. The Merced County segment of 99 is being worked on which really leaves the only big subpar gap as southern Tulare County.
I am surprised that CA 58 between Bakersfield and Barstow has never even gotten an HPC designation, because that would easily jumpstart any I-40 extension plans. Maybe not in the same way as I-7 for CA 99, but I would've loved to see it gain traction. As it is, I-40 functions pretty well for Los Angeles-bound traffic coming from places like Flagstaff, Albuquerque, Amarillo and OKC (all cities that were once served by Route 66), so an extension would be viewed as nothing more than an added bonus.
Interstate 40 in California's Wikipedia page says that Interstate 40 has been proposed to be extended to Bakersfield, and even as far as Paso Robles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_40_in_California. While an extension to Bakersfield (or even Interstate 5) may or may not happen, an extension all the way to Paso Robles seems like pie-in-the-sky on Wikipedia's part; even though SR 46 is being expanded to four-lanes from Paso Robles to Interstate 5, it is doubtful that the corridor will ever be an Interstate, let alone be part of a future segment of Interstate 40.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 01, 2021, 11:33:34 AM
Interstate 40 in California's Wikipedia page says that Interstate 40 has been proposed to be extended to Bakersfield, and even as far as Paso Robles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_40_in_California. While an extension to Bakersfield (or even Interstate 5) may or may not happen, an extension all the way to Paso Robles seems like pie-in-the-sky on Wikipedia's part; even though SR 46 is being expanded to four-lanes from Paso Robles to Interstate 5, it is doubtful that the corridor will ever be an Interstate, let alone be part of a future segment of Interstate 40.
Thing is the last official proposal was in 1968. Whoever wrote that Wikipedia page wrote it like it was something that was active which seems to be driving a lot of confusion in the road community.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 01, 2021, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 01, 2021, 11:33:34 AM
Interstate 40 in California's Wikipedia page says that Interstate 40 has been proposed to be extended to Bakersfield, and even as far as Paso Robles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_40_in_California. While an extension to Bakersfield (or even Interstate 5) may or may not happen, an extension all the way to Paso Robles seems like pie-in-the-sky on Wikipedia's part; even though SR 46 is being expanded to four-lanes from Paso Robles to Interstate 5, it is doubtful that the corridor will ever be an Interstate, let alone be part of a future segment of Interstate 40.
Thing is the last official proposal was in 1968. Whoever wrote that Wikipedia page wrote it like it was something that was active which seems to be driving a lot of confusion in the road community.
I've found that most Wiki pages dealing with the subject of future highways (mostly Interstates) to be best taken with a full shaker -- not just a grain -- of salt! Most entries seem to be a mixture of bits & pieces of plans gleaned from documents that are likely well past their expiration date and a substantial measure of wishful thinking. But then, the looseness of the standards for inclusion there allow for that sort of (mis)information to be disseminated.
Tell mine about it. Just look at the post on the Interstate 17 page where it stated (without a citation) that Interstate 17's exit numbers were going to be renumbered to be based on Interstate 17's mileage. And soon after, POOF! It was gone, and Interstate 17's exits on the webpage were renumbered back to their existing numbers.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 01, 2021, 06:46:00 PM
Tell mine about it. Just look at the post on the Interstate 17 page where it stated (without a citation) that Interstate 17's exit numbers were going to be renumbered to be based on Interstate 17's mileage. And soon after, POOF! It was gone, and Interstate 17's exits on the webpage were renumbered back to their existing numbers.
What I've noticed with Wikipedia is that some states have really unreliable writing when it comes to their State Highway pages. California and Arizona have very little consistency which makes me think that those articles were written piecemeal by various editors. Some states like Utah and Washington have excellent pages which were mostly written by someone who was serious with their research.
On my recent trip from LA to OKC I noticed this sign showing the distance of Wilmington on the east coast: https://goo.gl/maps/Z4ABAbgLjLTrppY89
How's that for a control city? Take that Arizona! Haha. In all seriousness I've never noticed this sign before but I think it's really cool. Anywhere else has this?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 02, 2022, 01:20:21 PM
On my recent trip from LA to OKC I noticed this sign showing the distance of Wilmington on the east coast: https://goo.gl/maps/Z4ABAbgLjLTrppY89
How's that for a control city? Take that Arizona! Haha. In all seriousness I've never noticed this sign before but I think it's really cool. Anywhere else has this?
Indeed, I featured it actually in the blog in the title post to this thread. It was there when I started working in the Inland Empire area around 2011.
I missed the link. For some reason on mobile phone the link is partially obscured. Great write up. I always thought it'd be cool to go back in time and take a drive through the area and seeing mushroom clouds in the distance.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 02, 2022, 01:20:21 PM
On my recent trip from LA to OKC I noticed this sign showing the distance of Wilmington on the east coast: https://goo.gl/maps/Z4ABAbgLjLTrppY89
How's that for a control city? Take that Arizona! Haha. In all seriousness I've never noticed this sign before but I think it's really cool. Anywhere else has this?
And its former counterpart in the east (https://www.interstate-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/routes/040/i-040-w-at-us-117-1.jpg)! Unfortunately, this one was never replaced after 2010.
Would be cool seeing this on more interstates though, especially on I-90 with distances to Seattle and Boston at each end, and I-80 for San Francisco and NYC.
How about erecting a sign at the beginning of Interstate 10 in Santa Monica telling the distance to Jacksonville, Florida?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 02, 2022, 02:33:15 PM
How about erecting a sign at the beginning of Interstate 10 in Santa Monica telling the distance to Jacksonville, Florida?
It's bad enough you have to see how far you have in Texas on I-10 upon entering Texas. I-10 isn't too bad until you get to Van Horn, TX. East of Van Horn I-10 is incredibly dull, I don't know how I clinched its mileage twice and kept myself awake.
But yes, a sign east of CA 1 would be nice.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 02, 2022, 02:33:15 PM
How about erecting a sign at the beginning of Interstate 10 in Santa Monica telling the distance to Jacksonville, Florida?
Watch them accidentally post the distance to Chicago instead :-D
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 02, 2022, 02:49:06 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 02, 2022, 02:33:15 PM
How about erecting a sign at the beginning of Interstate 10 in Santa Monica telling the distance to Jacksonville, Florida?
Watch them accidentally post the distance to Chicago instead :-D
Wouldn't be unheard of though for the nearby Santa Monica terminus of US 66. I believe that there is some precedent with one of the terminus points of US 6 showing the full historic mileage extent.
Interesting to note though, I've always viewed I-10 in California as more of a replacement for US 60, US 70 and US 99 more than US 66. I-10 between Los Angeles and Redlands essentially is a build up of the previous US Route corridor.
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 02, 2022, 02:16:51 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 02, 2022, 01:20:21 PM
On my recent trip from LA to OKC I noticed this sign showing the distance of Wilmington on the east coast: https://goo.gl/maps/Z4ABAbgLjLTrppY89
How's that for a control city? Take that Arizona! Haha. In all seriousness I've never noticed this sign before but I think it's really cool. Anywhere else has this?
And its former counterpart in the east (https://www.interstate-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/routes/040/i-040-w-at-us-117-1.jpg)! Unfortunately, this one was never replaced after 2010.
Would be cool seeing this on more interstates though, especially on I-90 with distances to Seattle and Boston at each end, and I-80 for San Francisco and NYC.
NJDOT is gonna post realistic distances to the next 3 control cities because that's the FHWA standard. Source: knowing how they operate
US 6 facing eastbound at its western end in Bishop, Cal., has a distance sign to Provincetown, Mass.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:P-town.jpg
Quote from: kkt on April 03, 2022, 02:16:26 AM
US 6 facing eastbound at its western end in Bishop, Cal., has a distance sign to Provincetown, Mass.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:P-town.jpg
Its location can be seen in GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3853699,-118.3954181,3a,15y,28.72h,89.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPB1LJr647pjWc0Pe5hdAVA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Don't forget the sign at (West) Sacramento to Ocean City, MD on US 50:
(https://i.imgur.com/wmsfwIz.jpg)
Quote from: Techknow on April 03, 2022, 09:46:33 PM
Don't forget the sign at (West) Sacramento to Ocean City, MD on US 50:
(https://i.imgur.com/wmsfwIz.jpg)
:nod:
Why is it so many US routes and not interstates?
Probably because US Route commonly have historic/promotional associations whereas Interstates rarely do. Both US 6 and US 50 have such associations which I've always figured played a large role in why mileage signage ended up being located at the terminus points.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2022, 10:24:46 PM
Probably because US Route commonly have historic/promotional associations whereas Interstates rarely do. Both US 6 and US 50 have such associations which I've always figured played a large role in why mileage signage ended up being located at the terminus points.
I wonder why I don't see that much US 40 promotional stuff out there. Lots of history in the route, with it part of the National Rd, Victory Hwy and National Old Trails Rd. Personally, I think it's more noteworthy than US 66, but it seems like the general public disagrees.
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 03, 2022, 11:19:17 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2022, 10:24:46 PM
Probably because US Route commonly have historic/promotional associations whereas Interstates rarely do. Both US 6 and US 50 have such associations which I've always figured played a large role in why mileage signage ended up being located at the terminus points.
I wonder why I don't see that much US 40 promotional stuff out there. Lots of history in the route, with it part of the National Rd, Victory Hwy and National Old Trails Rd. Personally, I think it's more noteworthy than US 66, but it seems like the general public disagrees.
Interestingly the Victory Highway Association of the Auto Trail era ended up becoming the US Route 40 Association. US 40 has a pretty big Historic following, I would probably rank it in the Top 5 favored US Routes.
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 03, 2022, 11:19:17 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2022, 10:24:46 PM
Probably because US Route commonly have historic/promotional associations whereas Interstates rarely do. Both US 6 and US 50 have such associations which I've always figured played a large role in why mileage signage ended up being located at the terminus points.
I wonder why I don't see that much US 40 promotional stuff out there. Lots of history in the route, with it part of the National Rd, Victory Hwy and National Old Trails Rd. Personally, I think it's more noteworthy than US 66, but it seems like the general public disagrees.
It's popular culture. US 66 had a huge hit song, a TV show with cool cars, and a Pulitzer Prize-winning novel. No other highway comes close.
Quote from: skluth on April 04, 2022, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 03, 2022, 11:19:17 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2022, 10:24:46 PM
Probably because US Route commonly have historic/promotional associations whereas Interstates rarely do. Both US 6 and US 50 have such associations which I've always figured played a large role in why mileage signage ended up being located at the terminus points.
I wonder why I don't see that much US 40 promotional stuff out there. Lots of history in the route, with it part of the National Rd, Victory Hwy and National Old Trails Rd. Personally, I think it's more noteworthy than US 66, but it seems like the general public disagrees.
It's popular culture. US 66 had a huge hit song, a TV show with cool cars, and a Pulitzer Prize-winning novel. No other highway comes close.
Which likely is the worst thing that could have happened to US 66. The more nostalgic segments were so much more fun 10-15 years ago when the basic people weren't there. The popularity of 66 hit critical mass once social media began to take off.
US-66 has had on-going appeal long before the arrival of social media. Popular culture has helped give the route a boost from time to time. The Bobby Troup song is the most famous. The movie Rainman with Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise gave the route some exposure in the late 1980's. The Pixar movie Cars boosted interest in The Mother Road in 2006.
I still don't see the logic in decommissioning US-66. It was a dumb move, driven by bean counter types I'm sure. I-40 and I-44 didn't cannibalize all the original stretches of US-66. Most of the original US-66 route in Oklahoma is still intact, just signed as a state highway. Given the history of American population migration, particularly during the Dust Bowl and years following, US-66 was a very important route. Hell, we still have Phillips 66 gasoline stations that literally lampoon the highway marker. But no more actual US-66! They need to fix that nonsense.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 06, 2022, 10:44:45 PM
US-66 has had on-going appeal long before the arrival of social media. Popular culture has helped give the route a boost from time to time. The Bobby Troup song is the most famous. The movie Rainman with Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise gave the route some exposure in the late 1980's. The Pixar movie Cars boosted interest in The Mother Road in 2006.
I still don't see the logic in decommissioning US-66. It was a dumb move, driven by bean counter types I'm sure. I-40 and I-44 didn't cannibalize all the original stretches of US-66. Most of the original US-66 route in Oklahoma is still intact, just signed as a state highway. Given the history of American population migration, particularly during the Dust Bowl and years following, US-66 was a very important route. Hell, we still have Phillips 66 gasoline stations that literally lampoon the highway marker. But no more actual US-66! They need to fix that nonsense.
A lot of US 66 was co-signed with Interstate corridors or simply existed towards it's end as a "on paper" multiplex. While yes it was popular it certainly wasn't exactly super mainstream either. So much of the back story of US 66 has been muddled or is just outright incorrect because of popular conjecture. Example; a lot normal people really believe US 66 ended at Santa Monica Pier. It's bad enough that people still think US 66 ended at 7th and Broadway in Los Angeles when there is no known evidence to support it being signed in Los Angeles before December 1930.
I mean, I love US 66 and it was one of my favorite corridors to explore when I lived in the Mountain Region. Now that it has become mainstream I much rather focus my interest on other corridors that have just as much merit (such as US 99, US 40, US 101 and US 91 as examples).
Given the historical importance of US-66 it's baffling how that route wound up being decommissioned while so many far less important US Highway-signed routes remained signed as such. Our highway system has US route overlaps that often run as deep as 3 route designations. Here in the Lawton area we have US-62/277/281 sharing the same pavement in certain locations. I can't think of any examples off-hand, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any US highway concurrencies that run 4 route numbers deep.
The US highway system has a great deal of 3-digit sub-routes. US-166 and US-266 still have active route segments even though their parent route is effectively dead. Given all the discretion I see in how highways are named there just doesn't seem to be any legit excuse for US-66 to be taken out of the system.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 06, 2022, 11:13:58 PM
Given the historical importance of US-66 it's baffling how that route wound up being decommissioned while so many far less important US Highway-signed routes remained signed as such. Our highway system has US route overlaps that often run as deep as 3 route designations. Here in the Lawton area we have US-62/277/281 sharing the same pavement in certain locations. I can't think of any examples off-hand, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any US highway concurrencies that run 4 route numbers deep.
The US highway system has a great deal of 3-digit sub-routes. US-166 and US-266 still have active route segments even though their parent route is effectively dead. Given all the discretion I see in how highways are named there just doesn't seem to be any legit excuse for US-66 to be taken out of the system.
The 1964 California Highway Renumbering and it's anti-multiplex stance certainly didn't help. Even in Arizona there wasn't a ton of stand along mileage state maintained for US 66 to inhabit as a stand alone route. AZ 66 was about the most realistic place US 66 could have stayed but that's a long multiplex from the New Mexico State Line to get there.
What's interesting to me is that it doesn't seem like there was a ton of reverence for legacy US Routes as the Interstates were being built. During the 1970s and 1980s I could certainly see the mindset being pervasive as people were probably just ready to move on from the antiquated corridors of old. The interesting thing to me is that most of the people who actually experienced the decommissioned US Routes are mostly gone. So somehow a lot of us have become nostalgic for something we never actually experienced when it was an active entity.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 06, 2022, 11:13:58 PM
Given the historical importance of US-66 it's baffling how that route wound up being decommissioned while so many far less important US Highway-signed routes remained signed as such. Our highway system has US route overlaps that often run as deep as 3 route designations. Here in the Lawton area we have US-62/277/281 sharing the same pavement in certain locations. I can't think of any examples off-hand, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any US highway concurrencies that run 4 route numbers deep.
The US highway system has a great deal of 3-digit sub-routes. US-166 and US-266 still have active route segments even though their parent route is effectively dead. Given all the discretion I see in how highways are named there just doesn't seem to be any legit excuse for US-66 to be taken out of the system.
Since it saw fit to keep the road on the books as a state highway, Oklahoma DOT could have simply refused to sign onto the decommissioning request if it had chosen to. If that were the case, its modern termini would probably be El Reno and the current eastern terminus of 166/400. 266 still exists because ODOT has never bothered to request its decommissioning.
If you really want to make this happen, write to Sen. Lankford and whichever shambling horror they get to replace Inhofe, and ask them to write the designation into law. Frank Lucas probably wouldn't hurt, either. Unlike most of the insane route designations that have emanated from Congress over the years, enshrining the US-66 designation in federal law actually makes some degree of sense. Let me know if you do–I'll write in too.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 06, 2022, 11:58:17 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 06, 2022, 11:13:58 PM
Given the historical importance of US-66 it's baffling how that route wound up being decommissioned while so many far less important US Highway-signed routes remained signed as such. Our highway system has US route overlaps that often run as deep as 3 route designations. Here in the Lawton area we have US-62/277/281 sharing the same pavement in certain locations. I can't think of any examples off-hand, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any US highway concurrencies that run 4 route numbers deep.
The US highway system has a great deal of 3-digit sub-routes. US-166 and US-266 still have active route segments even though their parent route is effectively dead. Given all the discretion I see in how highways are named there just doesn't seem to be any legit excuse for US-66 to be taken out of the system.
The 1964 California Highway Renumbering and it's anti-multiplex stance certainly didn't help. Even in Arizona there wasn't a ton of stand along mileage state maintained for US 66 to inhabit as a stand alone route. AZ 66 was about the most realistic place US 66 could have stayed but that's a long multiplex from the New Mexico State Line to get there.
What's interesting to me is that it doesn't seem like there was a ton of reverence for legacy US Routes as the Interstates were being built. During the 1970s and 1980s I could certainly see the mindset being pervasive as people were probably just ready to move on from the antiquated corridors of old. The interesting thing to me is that most of the people who actually experienced the decommissioned US Routes are mostly gone. So somehow a lot of us have become nostalgic for something we never actually experienced when it was an active entity.
There was a lot of nostalgia for US 66 in the 1980s.
Quote from: Rothman on April 07, 2022, 06:56:27 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 06, 2022, 11:58:17 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 06, 2022, 11:13:58 PM
Given the historical importance of US-66 it's baffling how that route wound up being decommissioned while so many far less important US Highway-signed routes remained signed as such. Our highway system has US route overlaps that often run as deep as 3 route designations. Here in the Lawton area we have US-62/277/281 sharing the same pavement in certain locations. I can't think of any examples off-hand, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any US highway concurrencies that run 4 route numbers deep.
The US highway system has a great deal of 3-digit sub-routes. US-166 and US-266 still have active route segments even though their parent route is effectively dead. Given all the discretion I see in how highways are named there just doesn't seem to be any legit excuse for US-66 to be taken out of the system.
The 1964 California Highway Renumbering and it's anti-multiplex stance certainly didn't help. Even in Arizona there wasn't a ton of stand along mileage state maintained for US 66 to inhabit as a stand alone route. AZ 66 was about the most realistic place US 66 could have stayed but that's a long multiplex from the New Mexico State Line to get there.
What's interesting to me is that it doesn't seem like there was a ton of reverence for legacy US Routes as the Interstates were being built. During the 1970s and 1980s I could certainly see the mindset being pervasive as people were probably just ready to move on from the antiquated corridors of old. The interesting thing to me is that most of the people who actually experienced the decommissioned US Routes are mostly gone. So somehow a lot of us have become nostalgic for something we never actually experienced when it was an active entity.
There was a lot of nostalgia for US 66 in the 1980s.
Yes, my Mom had a whole big story about a 1957 road trip on US 66 should would tell in the 1980s. It was complete with stuff like the silk water bags, Burma Shave signs and how terrifying the Grand Canyon apparently was.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 07, 2022, 12:39:51 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 06, 2022, 11:13:58 PM
Given the historical importance of US-66 it's baffling how that route wound up being decommissioned while so many far less important US Highway-signed routes remained signed as such. Our highway system has US route overlaps that often run as deep as 3 route designations. Here in the Lawton area we have US-62/277/281 sharing the same pavement in certain locations. I can't think of any examples off-hand, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any US highway concurrencies that run 4 route numbers deep.
The US highway system has a great deal of 3-digit sub-routes. US-166 and US-266 still have active route segments even though their parent route is effectively dead. Given all the discretion I see in how highways are named there just doesn't seem to be any legit excuse for US-66 to be taken out of the system.
Since it saw fit to keep the road on the books as a state highway, Oklahoma DOT could have simply refused to sign onto the decommissioning request if it had chosen to. If that were the case, its modern termini would probably be El Reno and the current eastern terminus of 166/400. 266 still exists because ODOT has never bothered to request its decommissioning.
If you really want to make this happen, write to Sen. Lankford and whichever shambling horror they get to replace Inhofe, and ask them to write the designation into law. Frank Lucas probably wouldn't hurt, either. Unlike most of the insane route designations that have emanated from Congress over the years, enshrining the US-66 designation in federal law actually makes some degree of sense. Let me know if you do–I'll write in too.
I'd prefer a longer recommissioning. A US 66 from CA to Western MO would be my suggestion, though this is a strawman so I could be convinced over a different alignment. I realize this would mean some long duplexes with I-40 through Northern Arizona and New Mexico. But I think it would be even more a tourist draw than marking the entire route with "Historic 66" signs. I'd also use US 66 to replace all those Business I-40 routes into cities like Flagstaff and Amarillo, many of which are part of the historic alignment. Perhaps the west end could finally officially be the Santa Monica Pier.
Quote from: skluth on April 07, 2022, 02:51:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 07, 2022, 12:39:51 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 06, 2022, 11:13:58 PM
Given the historical importance of US-66 it's baffling how that route wound up being decommissioned while so many far less important US Highway-signed routes remained signed as such. Our highway system has US route overlaps that often run as deep as 3 route designations. Here in the Lawton area we have US-62/277/281 sharing the same pavement in certain locations. I can't think of any examples off-hand, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any US highway concurrencies that run 4 route numbers deep.
The US highway system has a great deal of 3-digit sub-routes. US-166 and US-266 still have active route segments even though their parent route is effectively dead. Given all the discretion I see in how highways are named there just doesn't seem to be any legit excuse for US-66 to be taken out of the system.
Since it saw fit to keep the road on the books as a state highway, Oklahoma DOT could have simply refused to sign onto the decommissioning request if it had chosen to. If that were the case, its modern termini would probably be El Reno and the current eastern terminus of 166/400. 266 still exists because ODOT has never bothered to request its decommissioning.
If you really want to make this happen, write to Sen. Lankford and whichever shambling horror they get to replace Inhofe, and ask them to write the designation into law. Frank Lucas probably wouldn't hurt, either. Unlike most of the insane route designations that have emanated from Congress over the years, enshrining the US-66 designation in federal law actually makes some degree of sense. Let me know if you do–I'll write in too.
I'd prefer a longer recommissioning. A US 66 from CA to Western MO would be my suggestion, though this is a strawman so I could be convinced over a different alignment. I realize this would mean some long duplexes with I-40 through Northern Arizona and New Mexico. But I think it would be even more a tourist draw than marking the entire route with "Historic 66" signs. I'd also use US 66 to replace all those Business I-40 routes into cities like Flagstaff and Amarillo, many of which are part of the historic alignment. Perhaps the west end could finally officially be the Santa Monica Pier.
I'd post a Historic US 66 route following the route of the last few years that US 66 was signed, using duplexes with interstates where necessary. I'd only replace Business I-40 with Historic 66 signs where the route through the town is really a historic route of US 66. I wouldn't extend it to where US 66 never existed, unless it was a short distance to get to a freeway entrance or some such.
Yeah, I would only want US-66 signed as such on pavement where US-66 previously existed,
even if an Interstate is going over the top of that location. Moving the designation to locations where it didn't exist before would ruin some of the road trip tourism angle.
Quote from: Scott5114If you really want to make this happen, write to Sen. Lankford and whichever shambling horror they get to replace Inhofe, and ask them to write the designation into law. Frank Lucas probably wouldn't hurt, either. Unlike most of the insane route designations that have emanated from Congress over the years, enshrining the US-66 designation in federal law actually makes some degree of sense. Let me know if you do–I'll write in too.
I'm tempted to do just that. There is economic value in a US-66 that is "alive" in a more legit way. There are quite a few service businesses along the route that cater to various kinds of tourists tracing the route. Raising public awareness about the heritage of the highway might to more to raise overall interest in the nation's highway infrastructure.
My preference for replacing the Business I-40s was to only do it when most of it was previously US 66. I don't know which cities actually follow the old routing. I know in the St Louis area there were at least a half dozen historical routings, though Watson Road would probably be the local preference if a new US 66 came through the city.
Since most of the former US-66 isn't that useful for general travel, and is primarily of interest to road buffs, I don't have a problem with seeing Historic US-66 signs in lieu of normal route number signs. Here in California, we have almost 200 miles of the former US-66 signed in San Bernardino County as County Route 66. That's a pretty long piece of the old road that can be driven continuously without having to "cheat" on a more modern road (except for a tiny stretch that goes through a Marine base). Unfortunately, a lot of that road is unpleasant to drive because the pavement maintenance is, shall we say, sparing.
Are there any other really long unmultiplexed pieces of the old US-66? I've only driven it as far east as Holbrook, AZ.
Quote from: pderocco on April 08, 2022, 02:23:33 AM
Since most of the former US-66 isn't that useful for general travel, and is primarily of interest to road buffs, I don't have a problem with seeing Historic US-66 signs in lieu of normal route number signs. Here in California, we have almost 200 miles of the former US-66 signed in San Bernardino County as County Route 66. That's a pretty long piece of the old road that can be driven continuously without having to "cheat" on a more modern road (except for a tiny stretch that goes through a Marine base). Unfortunately, a lot of that road is unpleasant to drive because the pavement maintenance is, shall we say, sparing.
Are there any other really long unmultiplexed pieces of the old US-66? I've only driven it as far east as Holbrook, AZ.
Really pretty much the whole thing from Santa Monica to Cajon Pass is intact as a through road if you want to slog through the urban jungle (I have once purposely). If you count Oatman Highway along with AZ 66 that would be the next longest segment. The trouble I have is what does one constitute as the "truest US 66?" If someone were to say they drove I-40 between Bartstow and Ludlow they would in fact also driven the final alignment of US 66 before it was decommissioned.
Much of US 66 in Illinois closely parallels I-55 and can be easily followed from Dwight to Mount Olive. A bit of it is concurrent with I-55 but can also be driven on a frontage road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0346455,-89.4715061,3a,75y,349.09h,84.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D325.07684%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) through much of the state. US 66 was mostly four lanes before the interstate, so IDOT often just built two new lanes to one side of US 66 and one two-lane side of the old roadbed became a frontage road while the other side roadbed was upgraded to interstate standards. Several of the old pre-interstate US 66 bypasses of cities still exist, including Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, and Pontiac. Very little of it is signed with another route. Like the segments in California and Arizona, the Illinois segment attracts a lot of US 66 enthusiasts from overseas.
Quote from: Rothman on April 07, 2022, 06:56:27 AM
There was a lot of nostalgia for US 66 in the 1980s.
When I drove former 66 through the southwest in the early 90s, quite a bit of the original roadside architecture and signage was still visible, even if it was in a heavily decayed state. The nostalgia was probably more about what was on the road than the road itself.
Quote from: skluth on April 08, 2022, 11:55:08 AM
Much of US 66 in Illinois closely parallels I-55 and can be easily followed from Dwight to Mount Olive. A bit of it is concurrent with I-55 but can also be driven on a frontage road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0346455,-89.4715061,3a,75y,349.09h,84.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D325.07684%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) through much of the state. US 66 was mostly four lanes before the interstate, so IDOT often just built two new lanes to one side of US 66 and one two-lane side of the old roadbed became a frontage road while the other side roadbed was upgraded to interstate standards. Several of the old pre-interstate US 66 bypasses of cities still exist, including Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, and Pontiac. Very little of it is signed with another route. Like the segments in California and Arizona, the Illinois segment attracts a lot of US 66 enthusiasts from overseas.
Not exactly true. US 66 was originally on IL 4 (historic routing thereof), which starts out quite a bit west of I-55 as it heads up from St. Louis. I'm not the best citation for where this went, but again, how original do you want to be?
Quote from: Alps on April 08, 2022, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 08, 2022, 11:55:08 AM
Much of US 66 in Illinois closely parallels I-55 and can be easily followed from Dwight to Mount Olive. A bit of it is concurrent with I-55 but can also be driven on a frontage road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0346455,-89.4715061,3a,75y,349.09h,84.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D325.07684%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) through much of the state. US 66 was mostly four lanes before the interstate, so IDOT often just built two new lanes to one side of US 66 and one two-lane side of the old roadbed became a frontage road while the other side roadbed was upgraded to interstate standards. Several of the old pre-interstate US 66 bypasses of cities still exist, including Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, and Pontiac. Very little of it is signed with another route. Like the segments in California and Arizona, the Illinois segment attracts a lot of US 66 enthusiasts from overseas.
Not exactly true. US 66 was originally on IL 4 (historic routing thereof), which starts out quite a bit west of I-55 as it heads up from St. Louis. I'm not the best citation for where this went, but again, how original do you want to be?
And you really can't replicate the true original routing in Chicago given Adams/Jackson serve as one way couplets. That's the reason why the Historic US Route 66 Begin sign is located in the wrong place.
Quote from: pderocco on April 08, 2022, 02:23:33 AM
Are there any other really long unmultiplexed pieces of the old US-66? I've only driven it as far east as Holbrook, AZ.
About 200 miles of it in Oklahoma is State Highway 66. It's still maintained to the same standard as any other Oklahoma state highway, certainly no worse than US-77 or US-81 or any other US route in the state. Really the only thing you'd need to do to return it to active service as a US highway is swap the signs out.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2022, 06:04:27 PM
Quote from: Alps on April 08, 2022, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 08, 2022, 11:55:08 AM
Much of US 66 in Illinois closely parallels I-55 and can be easily followed from Dwight to Mount Olive. A bit of it is concurrent with I-55 but can also be driven on a frontage road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0346455,-89.4715061,3a,75y,349.09h,84.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D325.07684%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) through much of the state. US 66 was mostly four lanes before the interstate, so IDOT often just built two new lanes to one side of US 66 and one two-lane side of the old roadbed became a frontage road while the other side roadbed was upgraded to interstate standards. Several of the old pre-interstate US 66 bypasses of cities still exist, including Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, and Pontiac. Very little of it is signed with another route. Like the segments in California and Arizona, the Illinois segment attracts a lot of US 66 enthusiasts from overseas.
Not exactly true. US 66 was originally on IL 4 (historic routing thereof), which starts out quite a bit west of I-55 as it heads up from St. Louis. I'm not the best citation for where this went, but again, how original do you want to be?
And you really can't replicate the true original routing in Chicago given Adams/Jackson serve as one way couplets. That's the reason why the Historic US Route 66 Begin sign is located in the wrong place.
There were several routings of the Historic US 66. The routing from Dwight to Mount Olive as essentially the routing when my family drove to St Louis from Wisconsin in 1967. Some was duplexed with I-55 but much was still only US 66. I'm sorry for not satisfying the need of some to find the absolute original routing of US 66 but the routing I mentioned is the post-WWII routing which is what most people know and can be seen on this 1950 Illinois highway map (http://www.idaillinois.org/digital/collection/isl9/id/76). It's still the Historic US 66 even if it's not the ABSOLUTE 100% ORIGINAL UNDISPUTED VERY FIRST VIRGINAL ROUTING OF HISTORIC US 66. Historic is not the same as original.
Quote from: skluth on April 09, 2022, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2022, 06:04:27 PM
Quote from: Alps on April 08, 2022, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 08, 2022, 11:55:08 AM
Much of US 66 in Illinois closely parallels I-55 and can be easily followed from Dwight to Mount Olive. A bit of it is concurrent with I-55 but can also be driven on a frontage road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0346455,-89.4715061,3a,75y,349.09h,84.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D325.07684%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) through much of the state. US 66 was mostly four lanes before the interstate, so IDOT often just built two new lanes to one side of US 66 and one two-lane side of the old roadbed became a frontage road while the other side roadbed was upgraded to interstate standards. Several of the old pre-interstate US 66 bypasses of cities still exist, including Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, and Pontiac. Very little of it is signed with another route. Like the segments in California and Arizona, the Illinois segment attracts a lot of US 66 enthusiasts from overseas.
Not exactly true. US 66 was originally on IL 4 (historic routing thereof), which starts out quite a bit west of I-55 as it heads up from St. Louis. I'm not the best citation for where this went, but again, how original do you want to be?
And you really can't replicate the true original routing in Chicago given Adams/Jackson serve as one way couplets. That's the reason why the Historic US Route 66 Begin sign is located in the wrong place.
There were several routings of the Historic US 66. The routing from Dwight to Mount Olive as essentially the routing when my family drove to St Louis from Wisconsin in 1967. Some was duplexed with I-55 but much was still only US 66. I'm sorry for not satisfying the need of some to find the absolute original routing of US 66 but the routing I mentioned is the post-WWII routing which is what most people know and can be seen on this 1950 Illinois highway map (http://www.idaillinois.org/digital/collection/isl9/id/76). It's still the Historic US 66 even if it's not the ABSOLUTE 100% ORIGINAL UNDISPUTED VERY FIRST VIRGINAL ROUTING OF HISTORIC US 66. Historic is not the same as original.
Which brings me back to the question I posed above, what would then constitute the most "worthwhile" US 66 alignments? I would hesitate to advertise a single one as the "truest" given that doesn't really paint an accurate story of the history of the highway. Even though most of the early NOTR inherited US 66 routes are difficult and/or impossible to drive to me they have just as much historic merit as the 1930s realignments. Likewise failing to acknowledge that some Interstate corridors were also part of US 66 would be doing a disservice to the history of the highway.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2022, 11:04:15 AM
Quote from: skluth on April 09, 2022, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2022, 06:04:27 PM
Quote from: Alps on April 08, 2022, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 08, 2022, 11:55:08 AM
Much of US 66 in Illinois closely parallels I-55 and can be easily followed from Dwight to Mount Olive. A bit of it is concurrent with I-55 but can also be driven on a frontage road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0346455,-89.4715061,3a,75y,349.09h,84.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D325.07684%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) through much of the state. US 66 was mostly four lanes before the interstate, so IDOT often just built two new lanes to one side of US 66 and one two-lane side of the old roadbed became a frontage road while the other side roadbed was upgraded to interstate standards. Several of the old pre-interstate US 66 bypasses of cities still exist, including Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, and Pontiac. Very little of it is signed with another route. Like the segments in California and Arizona, the Illinois segment attracts a lot of US 66 enthusiasts from overseas.
Not exactly true. US 66 was originally on IL 4 (historic routing thereof), which starts out quite a bit west of I-55 as it heads up from St. Louis. I'm not the best citation for where this went, but again, how original do you want to be?
And you really can't replicate the true original routing in Chicago given Adams/Jackson serve as one way couplets. That's the reason why the Historic US Route 66 Begin sign is located in the wrong place.
There were several routings of the Historic US 66. The routing from Dwight to Mount Olive as essentially the routing when my family drove to St Louis from Wisconsin in 1967. Some was duplexed with I-55 but much was still only US 66. I'm sorry for not satisfying the need of some to find the absolute original routing of US 66 but the routing I mentioned is the post-WWII routing which is what most people know and can be seen on this 1950 Illinois highway map (http://www.idaillinois.org/digital/collection/isl9/id/76). It's still the Historic US 66 even if it's not the ABSOLUTE 100% ORIGINAL UNDISPUTED VERY FIRST VIRGINAL ROUTING OF HISTORIC US 66. Historic is not the same as original.
Which brings me back to the question I posed above, what would then constitute the most "worthwhile" US 66 alignments? I would hesitate to advertise a single one as the "truest" given that doesn't really paint an accurate story of the history of the highway. Even though most of the early NOTR inherited US 66 routes are difficult and/or impossible to drive to me they have just as much historic merit as the 1930s realignments. Likewise failing to acknowledge that some Interstate corridors were also part of US 66 would be doing a disservice to the history of the highway.
Well my point in Illinois relates to s very drivable original route. I would keep people continuous which is what a lot of the West tries to do. There are unmarked drivable through roads also (some with white centerlines!) but I would look for a combo of interstate, easy business routes and more complex. Missouri I believe does it right with different alignments marked with different years so you can choose your clinch, and then you could mark each route separately in parallel.
Quote from: Alps on April 09, 2022, 12:41:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2022, 11:04:15 AM
Quote from: skluth on April 09, 2022, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2022, 06:04:27 PM
Quote from: Alps on April 08, 2022, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 08, 2022, 11:55:08 AM
Much of US 66 in Illinois closely parallels I-55 and can be easily followed from Dwight to Mount Olive. A bit of it is concurrent with I-55 but can also be driven on a frontage road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0346455,-89.4715061,3a,75y,349.09h,84.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DXMO6mrkR0lqrafy1aGmdeg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D325.07684%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) through much of the state. US 66 was mostly four lanes before the interstate, so IDOT often just built two new lanes to one side of US 66 and one two-lane side of the old roadbed became a frontage road while the other side roadbed was upgraded to interstate standards. Several of the old pre-interstate US 66 bypasses of cities still exist, including Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, and Pontiac. Very little of it is signed with another route. Like the segments in California and Arizona, the Illinois segment attracts a lot of US 66 enthusiasts from overseas.
Not exactly true. US 66 was originally on IL 4 (historic routing thereof), which starts out quite a bit west of I-55 as it heads up from St. Louis. I'm not the best citation for where this went, but again, how original do you want to be?
And you really can't replicate the true original routing in Chicago given Adams/Jackson serve as one way couplets. That's the reason why the Historic US Route 66 Begin sign is located in the wrong place.
There were several routings of the Historic US 66. The routing from Dwight to Mount Olive as essentially the routing when my family drove to St Louis from Wisconsin in 1967. Some was duplexed with I-55 but much was still only US 66. I'm sorry for not satisfying the need of some to find the absolute original routing of US 66 but the routing I mentioned is the post-WWII routing which is what most people know and can be seen on this 1950 Illinois highway map (http://www.idaillinois.org/digital/collection/isl9/id/76). It's still the Historic US 66 even if it's not the ABSOLUTE 100% ORIGINAL UNDISPUTED VERY FIRST VIRGINAL ROUTING OF HISTORIC US 66. Historic is not the same as original.
Which brings me back to the question I posed above, what would then constitute the most "worthwhile" US 66 alignments? I would hesitate to advertise a single one as the "truest" given that doesn't really paint an accurate story of the history of the highway. Even though most of the early NOTR inherited US 66 routes are difficult and/or impossible to drive to me they have just as much historic merit as the 1930s realignments. Likewise failing to acknowledge that some Interstate corridors were also part of US 66 would be doing a disservice to the history of the highway.
Well my point in Illinois relates to s very drivable original route. I would keep people continuous which is what a lot of the West tries to do. There are unmarked drivable through roads also (some with white centerlines!) but I would look for a combo of interstate, easy business routes and more complex. Missouri I believe does it right with different alignments marked with different years so you can choose your clinch, and then you could mark each route separately in parallel.
New Mexico has signed Historic Alignments of US 66 by vintage also if they can be traversed. I also prefer this method of signing alignments when practical.
Illinois signs three different alignments in places and IIRC you can drive most of old US 66 in Illinois without getting on an interstate.
West of Elk City OK old US 66 is pretty much intact until Alanreed TX. Once in Texas the EB frontage road is old 66 except at McLean. Plenty of concrete roadway remains on this Texas segment.
There is a very short segment of Old US 66 in IL that is impassible due to an adjacent quarry blasting too close to the road and making it unstable. Following Old 66/Joliet Rd off of I-55 at I-294 toward Chicago, between East Ave and 55th St in Hodgkins/McCook has been closed for years and is fenced off to all traffic, even foot and bicycle.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7852808,-87.8498495,15z/data=!3m1!1e3
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 10, 2022, 10:39:23 AM
There is a very short segment of Old US 66 in IL that is impassible due to an adjacent quarry blasting too close to the road and making it unstable. Following Old 66/Joliet Rd off of I-55 at I-294 toward Chicago, between East Ave and 55th St in Hodgkins/McCook has been closed for years and is fenced off to all traffic, even foot and bicycle.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7852808,-87.8498495,15z/data=!3m1!1e3
Roamin Rich did a video on it years ago:
Similarly La Bajada Hill in New Mexico really isn't something that can driven except by the off road crowd if they have tribal permission.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 10, 2022, 11:03:12 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 10, 2022, 10:39:23 AM
There is a very short segment of Old US 66 in IL that is impassible due to an adjacent quarry blasting too close to the road and making it unstable. Following Old 66/Joliet Rd off of I-55 at I-294 toward Chicago, between East Ave and 55th St in Hodgkins/McCook has been closed for years and is fenced off to all traffic, even foot and bicycle.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7852808,-87.8498495,15z/data=!3m1!1e3
Roamin Rich did a video on it years ago:
Similarly La Bajada Hill in New Mexico really isn't something that can driven except by the off road crowd if they have tribal permission.
This is definitely getting off topic... and when I was in IL you COULD walk the route, slipping through an opening in the fence, at the peril of being seen.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 31, 2021, 09:22:41 PM
Quote from: kkt on March 31, 2021, 09:19:58 PM
I-40 taking over CA 58 to Bakersfield has a lot less to do in order to get it up to interstate standards. But CA 99 has some boosters actively campaigning for it. So it could go either way. Caltrans and most of the legislature doesn't really care about interstate status that doesn't have any money attached to it. I wouldn't look for either of them to happen this decade.
More so, aside from putting a real junction at CA 223 I don't see what added benefit Interstate standards nets CA 58. 99 (and really US 101) are where widenings and reconfigured interchanges are going to make an impact. The Merced County segment of 99 is being worked on which really leaves the only big subpar gap as southern Tulare County.
One thing an extension of Interstate 40 westward to the present 58/99 junction in Bakersfield would be to create the second 2di multiplex in California. (The only existing 2di multiplex in the state is Golden State Freeway (5/10) between Santa Monica and San Bernardino Freeways.
Quote from: dbz77 on May 03, 2022, 04:01:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 31, 2021, 09:22:41 PM
Quote from: kkt on March 31, 2021, 09:19:58 PM
I-40 taking over CA 58 to Bakersfield has a lot less to do in order to get it up to interstate standards. But CA 99 has some boosters actively campaigning for it. So it could go either way. Caltrans and most of the legislature doesn't really care about interstate status that doesn't have any money attached to it. I wouldn't look for either of them to happen this decade.
More so, aside from putting a real junction at CA 223 I don't see what added benefit Interstate standards nets CA 58. 99 (and really US 101) are where widenings and reconfigured interchanges are going to make an impact. The Merced County segment of 99 is being worked on which really leaves the only big subpar gap as southern Tulare County.
One thing an extension of Interstate 40 westward to the present 58/99 junction in Bakersfield would be to create the second 2di multiplex in California. (The only existing 2di multiplex in the state is Golden State Freeway (5/10) between Santa Monica and San Bernardino Freeways.
But why end it there? If you continue the Westside Parkway past I-7 (my preferred choice for the CA 99 upgrade, if it ever comes to be) and build it out to I-5, then you'd give I-40 a more proper ending.
Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?
I don't expect to see it in my lifetime. (I'm 69.)
As has been said, it's more important to upgrade the physical road, rather than renumber it, unless renumbering is accompanied by a big pot of money.
But there's another wrinkle that I see on the horizon, which may result in a widespread reduction in freeway expansion. If self-driving cars are perfected, then it will eventually be possible to run cars much closer to each other, and at higher speeds, which will dramatically increase the capacity of the existing roads. And we may see autonomous cars phased in, starting with freeways where the conditions are optimal, leaving the ability to navigate complicated surface roads until later.
^^^
The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?
None, hasn't even been petitioned inclusion since 1968. There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed. A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.
Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco. That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions. There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:44:13 AM
^^^
The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?
None, hasn't even been petitioned inclusion since 1968. There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed. A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.
Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco. That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions. There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.
Sure I agree, but the idea of being realistic or not usually gets thrown out the window in Fictional Highways land. :nod: Personally, I have realized over time that the I-40 extension over CA 58 is the West Coast version of "extend I-76 east over NJ 42 and the Atlantic City Expressway" (which will most likely never happen either).
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 04, 2022, 06:30:50 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:44:13 AM
^^^
The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?
None, hasn't even been petitioned inclusion since 1968. There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed. A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.
Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco. That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions. There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.
Sure I agree, but the idea of being realistic or not usually gets thrown out the window in Fictional Highways land. :nod: Personally, I have realized over time that the I-40 extension over CA 58 is the West Coast version of "extend I-76 east over NJ 42 and the Atlantic City Expressway" (which will most likely never happen either).
Right, in the fictional frame of view it is an easy leap to make. Somehow though I-40 to Bakersfield has become something that a lot of people think is a certainty (like the entire Freewayjim Facebook page) or is something that should actually happen due to current traffic patterns.
All I want is climbing lanes for the Tehachapi grade to get those damn trucks to the side, and I'll be happy.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on May 05, 2022, 11:45:02 AM
All I want is climbing lanes for the Tehachapi grade to get those damn trucks to the side, and I'll be happy.
If that was ever built it would by proxy probably take care of the CA 223 and Bealville Road intersections by proxy.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 04, 2022, 06:30:50 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:44:13 AM
^^^
The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?
None, hasn't even been petitioned inclusion since 1968. There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed. A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.
Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco. That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions. There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.
Sure I agree, but the idea of being realistic or not usually gets thrown out the window in Fictional Highways land. :nod: Personally, I have realized over time that the I-40 extension over CA 58 is the West Coast version of "extend I-76 east over NJ 42 and the Atlantic City Expressway" (which will most likely never happen either).
Every time I travel US-101 south of Gilroy, I see at least one or two more left or U-turns closed and every time I go to San Luis Obispo, I see one more interchange being started. It looks like CASR-58 is basically "done" with the upgrades that would benefit US-101. Rather than "Interstate Standards", which are a laudable goal, why don't we think about "reasonable improvements that will benefit either safety or speed or convenience" (and often what helps one helps the others).
How busy do the desert portions of CA-58 west of Mojave get during peak weekends?
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 06:37:18 PM
How busy do the desert portions of CA-58 west of Mojave get during peak weekends?
It's not so much passenger traffic but rather freight which causes most of the issues over Tehachapi Pass.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:44:13 AM
^^^
The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what’s the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?
None, hasn’t even been petitioned inclusion since 1968. There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed. A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.
Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco. That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions. There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.
Again, the only way extending I-40 to Bakersfield or giving an Interstate designation to SR 99 is going to happen is if either Bakersfield, Kern County, or Kevin McCarthy insist on it being so.
Quote from: brad2971 on May 05, 2022, 06:55:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:44:13 AM
^^^
The chances of CA 58 between I-15 and CA 14 hitting a capacity need for a six lane expansion are incredibly implausible.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 03, 2022, 09:46:04 PM
Realistically what's the chance Caltrans even considers extending I-40 to Bakersfield?
None, hasn't even been petitioned inclusion since 1968. There is zero need for a full freeway west of Barstow to Bakersfield now that Kramer Junction and Hinkley have been bypassed. A couple at-grade intersections in California City and narrow shoulders will likely never need upgrades.
Think about how busy US 101 is between Los Angeles and San Francisco. That corridor never gets discussed for inclusion in these armchair Interstate discussions. There are plenty of at-grade intersections on US 101 also that will never been closed off by full interchanges, nor really need to be.
Again, the only way extending I-40 to Bakersfield or giving an Interstate designation to SR 99 is going to happen is if either Bakersfield, Kern County, or Kevin McCarthy insist on it being so.
Could happen. Or Congress could decide to start giving away money for Interstate improvements that isn't available for National Highway System non-interstate routes.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 05, 2022, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 06:37:18 PM
How busy do the desert portions of CA-58 west of Mojave get during peak weekends?
It's not so much passenger traffic but rather freight which causes most of the issues over Tehachapi Pass.
That's what I've noticed the couple times I've driven it. One of the few places I've mostly driven in the left lane uphill which helped me avoid getting stuck behind passing trucks (a couple trucks waited for me to pass before passing themselves).
The AADT as of 2020 (https://dot.ca.gov/programs/traffic-operations/census) on CA 58 are all less than 20K between Mojave and Barstow and as low as 13K east of Kramer Jct. The truck AADTs are about a third the traffic along the entire corridor from Barstow to Bakersfield regardless of AADT. FWIW, the CA 58 AADTs west of Bakersfield are all under 6000 and and as low as 200 at the SLO/Kern County line.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 05, 2022, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 06:37:18 PM
How busy do the desert portions of CA-58 west of Mojave get during peak weekends?
It's not so much passenger traffic but rather freight which causes most of the issues over Tehachapi Pass.
I meant to say east of Mojave, not west, that's my fault.
It seems from the above post, CA-58 isn't carrying any large volumes that would warrant an immediate need for full control of access at minor intersections. Not to say it shouldn't happen, but it certainly does not seem like a priority or pressing need.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 05, 2022, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 06:37:18 PM
How busy do the desert portions of CA-58 west of Mojave get during peak weekends?
It's not so much passenger traffic but rather freight which causes most of the issues over Tehachapi Pass.
I meant to say east of Mojave, not west, that's my fault.
It seems from the above post, CA-58 isn't carrying any large volumes that would warrant an immediate need for full control of access at minor intersections. Not to say it shouldn't happen, but it certainly does not seem like a priority or pressing need.
I'll say it then, it shouldn't happen because the current highway is sufficient. I'm not sure what the new traffic counts are now that the Hinkley/Kramer Junctions bypasses are complete, but it definitely isn't heavy.
If over time various intersections are closed off one by one with an ultimate result of creating a fully controlled access facility, that wouldn't be a problem necessarily.
It's not pressing to the point a full blown project is needed to "upgrade the highway to interstate standards". At most, piecemeal. But I wouldn't say no upgrades at all.
The only needed upgrades along the corridor are a third lane through Tehachapi Pass and and an interchange at the CA 223 intersection east of Arvin. The recent upgrades around Kramer Jct. were the last needed upgrades east of Mojave. The highway right now is more than adequate. US 395 around Kramer Jct. should still be improved, but that's another discussion.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 09:17:37 PM
If over time various intersections are closed off one by one with an ultimate result of creating a fully controlled access facility, that wouldn't be a problem necessarily.
It's not pressing to the point a full blown project is needed to "upgrade the highway to interstate standards". At most, piecemeal. But I wouldn't say no upgrades at all.
Might want to give those interior shoulders a gander in that Mojave-Barstow corridor, they aren't up to par with Interstate standards and would be a hard sell for state highway funds with the CTC.
I never said bringing the corridor up to interstate standards, per se, I was saying in fact not doing that. But simply creating a freeway (fully controlled access facility) over a long period of time by one by one closing intersections.
Not touching the mainline itself.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 10:09:20 PM
I never said bringing the corridor up to interstate standards, per se, I was saying in fact not doing that. But simply creating a freeway (fully controlled access facility) over a long period of time by one by one closing intersections.
Not touching the mainline itself.
But even that isn't necessary. There is a lot of rural ranches and California City property that just plain does not need interchanges. If US 101 isn't getting interchanges when they are far more merited than CA 58 isn't.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 05, 2022, 10:07:11 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 09:17:37 PM
If over time various intersections are closed off one by one with an ultimate result of creating a fully controlled access facility, that wouldn't be a problem necessarily.
It's not pressing to the point a full blown project is needed to "upgrade the highway to interstate standards". At most, piecemeal. But I wouldn't say no upgrades at all.
Might want to give those interior shoulders a gander in that Mojave-Barstow corridor, they aren't up to par with Interstate standards and would be a hard sell for state highway funds with the CTC.
The interstate standard for interior shoulders is only 4 ft when there are two lanes per direction. Those shoulders look like they could be 4 feet wide to me. /shrug
(I do agree with you that upgrades in general aren't really needed, just wanted to set that straight.)
Quote from: stevashe on May 06, 2022, 01:22:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 05, 2022, 10:07:11 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 09:17:37 PM
If over time various intersections are closed off one by one with an ultimate result of creating a fully controlled access facility, that wouldn't be a problem necessarily.
It's not pressing to the point a full blown project is needed to "upgrade the highway to interstate standards". At most, piecemeal. But I wouldn't say no upgrades at all.
Might want to give those interior shoulders a gander in that Mojave-Barstow corridor, they aren't up to par with Interstate standards and would be a hard sell for state highway funds with the CTC.
The interstate standard for interior shoulders is only 4 ft when there are two lanes per direction. Those shoulders look like they could be 4 feet wide to me. /shrug
(I do agree with you that upgrades in general aren't really needed, just wanted to set that straight.)
To be specific I'm referring to the soft portions which are largely located between the end of the freeway in Mojave and Kramer Junction. This would also be the same segment of CA 58 which has the California City at-grade intersections. East of Kramer Junction there are a handful of at-grade intersections but I believe the rest of the roadway would meet current Interstate specifications otherwise.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 06, 2022, 01:35:44 PM
Quote from: stevashe on May 06, 2022, 01:22:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 05, 2022, 10:07:11 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2022, 09:17:37 PM
If over time various intersections are closed off one by one with an ultimate result of creating a fully controlled access facility, that wouldn't be a problem necessarily.
It's not pressing to the point a full blown project is needed to "upgrade the highway to interstate standards". At most, piecemeal. But I wouldn't say no upgrades at all.
Might want to give those interior shoulders a gander in that Mojave-Barstow corridor, they aren't up to par with Interstate standards and would be a hard sell for state highway funds with the CTC.
The interstate standard for interior shoulders is only 4 ft when there are two lanes per direction. Those shoulders look like they could be 4 feet wide to me. /shrug
(I do agree with you that upgrades in general aren't really needed, just wanted to set that straight.)
To be specific I'm referring to the soft portions which are largely located between the end of the freeway in Mojave and Kramer Junction. This would also be the same segment of CA 58 which has the California City at-grade intersections. East of Kramer Junction there are a handful of at-grade intersections but I believe the rest of the roadway would meet current Interstate specifications otherwise.
Yes that is the area I'm looking at. For example this is right before one of those California City intersections going eastbound. The shoulder looks adequate to me.
https://goo.gl/maps/WKiJZXrUSEB3aErL8
(https://i.imgur.com/N5e1E9v.png)
^^^
Yes, that's the segment I'm referencing with the soft interior shoulders. The hard portion of the left shoulder never appeared to be the required four feet in the California City area. Looking through some of my older photos of the Tehachapi Pass-Mojave corridor it appears that segment is barely four feet hard surface.
Anyone passing through CA 58 any time soon? If I would like to send you my tape measure along with $20 dollars. :D
Yeah it definitely looks skinny, but as far as I can tell from the measurements I can do here remotely, it is just barely 4 feet. Here's a screenshot of actual Interstate 40 for comparison:
(https://i.imgur.com/7qLPrJl.png)
Yeah, looks like 3, maybe 4, feet. The desert sand is probably hard enough to drive on, so I would care more about putting in a median barrier.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 06, 2022, 11:13:58 PM
Given the historical importance of US-66 it's baffling how that route wound up being decommissioned while so many far less important US Highway-signed routes remained signed as such. Our highway system has US route overlaps that often run as deep as 3 route designations. Here in the Lawton area we have US-62/277/281 sharing the same pavement in certain locations. I can't think of any examples off-hand, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any US highway concurrencies that run 4 route numbers deep.
The US highway system has a great deal of 3-digit sub-routes. US-166 and US-266 still have active route segments even though their parent route is effectively dead. Given all the discretion I see in how highways are named there just doesn't seem to be any legit excuse for US-66 to be taken out of the system.
I would argue that US-66 being decommissioned adds to it's appeal and charm. Now people "hunt" for old alignments.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on May 07, 2022, 12:40:47 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 06, 2022, 11:13:58 PM
Given the historical importance of US-66 it's baffling how that route wound up being decommissioned while so many far less important US Highway-signed routes remained signed as such. Our highway system has US route overlaps that often run as deep as 3 route designations. Here in the Lawton area we have US-62/277/281 sharing the same pavement in certain locations. I can't think of any examples off-hand, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any US highway concurrencies that run 4 route numbers deep.
The US highway system has a great deal of 3-digit sub-routes. US-166 and US-266 still have active route segments even though their parent route is effectively dead. Given all the discretion I see in how highways are named there just doesn't seem to be any legit excuse for US-66 to be taken out of the system.
I would argue that US-66 being decommissioned adds to it's appeal and charm. Now people "hunt" for old alignments.
I mean, you can do that with US-99 or US-91 too. Nobody outside the roadgeek community gives a damn about old US-91 or finds it "appealing" or "charming", so it's not like merely being a decommissioned route has any difference in terms of that.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 07, 2022, 03:52:58 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on May 07, 2022, 12:40:47 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 06, 2022, 11:13:58 PM
Given the historical importance of US-66 it's baffling how that route wound up being decommissioned while so many far less important US Highway-signed routes remained signed as such. Our highway system has US route overlaps that often run as deep as 3 route designations. Here in the Lawton area we have US-62/277/281 sharing the same pavement in certain locations. I can't think of any examples off-hand, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any US highway concurrencies that run 4 route numbers deep.
The US highway system has a great deal of 3-digit sub-routes. US-166 and US-266 still have active route segments even though their parent route is effectively dead. Given all the discretion I see in how highways are named there just doesn't seem to be any legit excuse for US-66 to be taken out of the system.
I would argue that US-66 being decommissioned adds to it's appeal and charm. Now people "hunt" for old alignments.
I mean, you can do that with US-99 or US-91 too. Nobody outside the roadgeek community gives a damn about old US-91 or finds it "appealing" or "charming", so it's not like merely being a decommissioned route has any difference in terms of that.
Regarding US 99 there has been some attempts to give it a US 66 mainstream appeal. While to some extent there has been "some" advancement towards that mainstream appeal the highway has far more of a Roadgeek following by a large margin. When I did a presentation for the alignment of history of US 99 in the Central Valley for the CCITE it was very apparent the talking points were not mainstream like US 66 would have been. I would go as far to say that the 99 corridor is now more associated as a state highway.
Truth be told, one of the biggest turn offs to US 66 is that it has mainstream appeal. It is very hard to get anywhere with that crowd regarding breaking through the conjecture and myth that has been allowed to accumulate with US 66 for so long. The fact that people still believe that US 66 ended at 7th and Broadway is pretty telling that the myth means more than reality.