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New Jersey Turnpike

Started by hotdogPi, December 22, 2013, 09:04:24 PM

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roadman65

Not the point.  A state capital should be known to drivers even if it is 6 miles off the beaten path.  For Wilmington drivers who stay on the Turnpike to the end either use US 13 south or continue on I-95.  Wilmington is the perfect place to describe that.  Before it was Del. Mem. Br. as many were familiar with that bridge as the link from the north to the south. 

Nobody ever heard of Farnhurst where Route 13 meets I-295.  New Castle is too small to denote, but everyone considers the area around Wilmington to be Wilmington so being the turnpike sort of ends there ( however NJDOT wants you to think it crosses the Delaware Memorial Bridge hence I-295 ramp signs on Route 140 considering the Turnpike continuing over the bridge into Delaware) so Wilmington is fine.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


jeffandnicole

Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Not the point.  A state capital should be known to drivers even if it is 6 miles off the beaten path.  For Wilmington drivers who stay on the Turnpike to the end either use US 13 south or continue on I-95.  Wilmington is the perfect place to describe that.  Before it was Del. Mem. Br. as many were familiar with that bridge as the link from the north to the south. 

Nobody ever heard of Farnhurst where Route 13 meets I-295.  New Castle is too small to denote, but everyone considers the area around Wilmington to be Wilmington so being the turnpike sort of ends there ( however NJDOT wants you to think it crosses the Delaware Memorial Bridge hence I-295 ramp signs on Route 140 considering the Turnpike continuing over the bridge into Delaware) so Wilmington is fine.

But Wilmington isn't the capital of Delaware...

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Not the point.  A state capital should be known to drivers even if it is 6 miles off the beaten path.  For Wilmington drivers who stay on the Turnpike to the end either use US 13 south or continue on I-95.  Wilmington is the perfect place to describe that.  Before it was Del. Mem. Br. as many were familiar with that bridge as the link from the north to the south. 

Nobody ever heard of Farnhurst where Route 13 meets I-295.  New Castle is too small to denote, but everyone considers the area around Wilmington to be Wilmington so being the turnpike sort of ends there ( however NJDOT wants you to think it crosses the Delaware Memorial Bridge hence I-295 ramp signs on Route 140 considering the Turnpike continuing over the bridge into Delaware) so Wilmington is fine.
Going south, Wilmington is a backtrack.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

famartin

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Not the point.  A state capital should be known to drivers even if it is 6 miles off the beaten path.  For Wilmington drivers who stay on the Turnpike to the end either use US 13 south or continue on I-95.  Wilmington is the perfect place to describe that.  Before it was Del. Mem. Br. as many were familiar with that bridge as the link from the north to the south. 

Nobody ever heard of Farnhurst where Route 13 meets I-295.  New Castle is too small to denote, but everyone considers the area around Wilmington to be Wilmington so being the turnpike sort of ends there ( however NJDOT wants you to think it crosses the Delaware Memorial Bridge hence I-295 ramp signs on Route 140 considering the Turnpike continuing over the bridge into Delaware) so Wilmington is fine.
Going south, Wilmington is a backtrack.

Not enough for it to matter
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/New+York/Wilmington,+DE/@40.2042072,-75.340863,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m18!4m17!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c24fa5d33f083b:0xc80b8f06e177fe62!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c70f185c46af6f:0x8516da5077308c00!2m2!1d-75.5483909!2d39.744655!2m3!6e1!7e2!8j1619488800!3e0

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: famartin on April 27, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Not the point.  A state capital should be known to drivers even if it is 6 miles off the beaten path.  For Wilmington drivers who stay on the Turnpike to the end either use US 13 south or continue on I-95.  Wilmington is the perfect place to describe that.  Before it was Del. Mem. Br. as many were familiar with that bridge as the link from the north to the south. 

Nobody ever heard of Farnhurst where Route 13 meets I-295.  New Castle is too small to denote, but everyone considers the area around Wilmington to be Wilmington so being the turnpike sort of ends there ( however NJDOT wants you to think it crosses the Delaware Memorial Bridge hence I-295 ramp signs on Route 140 considering the Turnpike continuing over the bridge into Delaware) so Wilmington is fine.
Going south, Wilmington is a backtrack.

Not enough for it to matter
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/New+York/Wilmington,+DE/@40.2042072,-75.340863,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m18!4m17!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c24fa5d33f083b:0xc80b8f06e177fe62!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c70f185c46af6f:0x8516da5077308c00!2m2!1d-75.5483909!2d39.744655!2m3!6e1!7e2!8j1619488800!3e0
Is most traffic going south on the NJ Turnpike going to Wilmington or further on to Maryland/DC?
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

famartin

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:05:54 PM
Quote from: famartin on April 27, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Not the point.  A state capital should be known to drivers even if it is 6 miles off the beaten path.  For Wilmington drivers who stay on the Turnpike to the end either use US 13 south or continue on I-95.  Wilmington is the perfect place to describe that.  Before it was Del. Mem. Br. as many were familiar with that bridge as the link from the north to the south. 

Nobody ever heard of Farnhurst where Route 13 meets I-295.  New Castle is too small to denote, but everyone considers the area around Wilmington to be Wilmington so being the turnpike sort of ends there ( however NJDOT wants you to think it crosses the Delaware Memorial Bridge hence I-295 ramp signs on Route 140 considering the Turnpike continuing over the bridge into Delaware) so Wilmington is fine.
Going south, Wilmington is a backtrack.

Not enough for it to matter
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/New+York/Wilmington,+DE/@40.2042072,-75.340863,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m18!4m17!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c24fa5d33f083b:0xc80b8f06e177fe62!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c70f185c46af6f:0x8516da5077308c00!2m2!1d-75.5483909!2d39.744655!2m3!6e1!7e2!8j1619488800!3e0
Is most traffic going south on the NJ Turnpike going to Wilmington or further on to Maryland/DC?

I wasn't arguing that point.  Just stating a fact, that the fastest way to Wilmington from points north is the turnpike.

If we cared enough to think regionally, the four bold cities on this map are the only ones that should be used for control cities on the major highways connecting points in this corridor.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8787644,-76.5012695,8z

sprjus4

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:05:54 PM
Quote from: famartin on April 27, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Not the point.  A state capital should be known to drivers even if it is 6 miles off the beaten path.  For Wilmington drivers who stay on the Turnpike to the end either use US 13 south or continue on I-95.  Wilmington is the perfect place to describe that.  Before it was Del. Mem. Br. as many were familiar with that bridge as the link from the north to the south. 

Nobody ever heard of Farnhurst where Route 13 meets I-295.  New Castle is too small to denote, but everyone considers the area around Wilmington to be Wilmington so being the turnpike sort of ends there ( however NJDOT wants you to think it crosses the Delaware Memorial Bridge hence I-295 ramp signs on Route 140 considering the Turnpike continuing over the bridge into Delaware) so Wilmington is fine.
Going south, Wilmington is a backtrack.

Not enough for it to matter
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/New+York/Wilmington,+DE/@40.2042072,-75.340863,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m18!4m17!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c24fa5d33f083b:0xc80b8f06e177fe62!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c70f185c46af6f:0x8516da5077308c00!2m2!1d-75.5483909!2d39.744655!2m3!6e1!7e2!8j1619488800!3e0
Is most traffic going south on the NJ Turnpike going to Wilmington or further on to Maryland/DC?
Further south. Some of it may exit onto US-13 / DE-1 South, but I'd estimate the vast majority are staying on I-95 South into Maryland towards Baltimore / DC.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: famartin on April 27, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:05:54 PM
Quote from: famartin on April 27, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Not the point.  A state capital should be known to drivers even if it is 6 miles off the beaten path.  For Wilmington drivers who stay on the Turnpike to the end either use US 13 south or continue on I-95.  Wilmington is the perfect place to describe that.  Before it was Del. Mem. Br. as many were familiar with that bridge as the link from the north to the south. 

Nobody ever heard of Farnhurst where Route 13 meets I-295.  New Castle is too small to denote, but everyone considers the area around Wilmington to be Wilmington so being the turnpike sort of ends there ( however NJDOT wants you to think it crosses the Delaware Memorial Bridge hence I-295 ramp signs on Route 140 considering the Turnpike continuing over the bridge into Delaware) so Wilmington is fine.
Going south, Wilmington is a backtrack.

Not enough for it to matter
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/New+York/Wilmington,+DE/@40.2042072,-75.340863,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m18!4m17!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c24fa5d33f083b:0xc80b8f06e177fe62!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c70f185c46af6f:0x8516da5077308c00!2m2!1d-75.5483909!2d39.744655!2m3!6e1!7e2!8j1619488800!3e0
Is most traffic going south on the NJ Turnpike going to Wilmington or further on to Maryland/DC?

I wasn't arguing that point.  Just stating a fact, that the fastest way to Wilmington from points north is the turnpike.

If we cared enough to think regionally, the four bold cities on this map are the only ones that should be used for control cities on the major highways connecting points in this corridor.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8787644,-76.5012695,8z
And I agree with that. Control Cities on major routes like the NJ Turnpike should be large, nationally know cities.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

roadman65

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Not the point.  A state capital should be known to drivers even if it is 6 miles off the beaten path.  For Wilmington drivers who stay on the Turnpike to the end either use US 13 south or continue on I-95.  Wilmington is the perfect place to describe that.  Before it was Del. Mem. Br. as many were familiar with that bridge as the link from the north to the south. 

Nobody ever heard of Farnhurst where Route 13 meets I-295.  New Castle is too small to denote, but everyone considers the area around Wilmington to be Wilmington so being the turnpike sort of ends there ( however NJDOT wants you to think it crosses the Delaware Memorial Bridge hence I-295 ramp signs on Route 140 considering the Turnpike continuing over the bridge into Delaware) so Wilmington is fine.
Going south, Wilmington is a backtrack.

It don't have to be a capital.  It's metro area goes south of I-295. Most people consider New Castle to be Wilmington as much as people consider Miami Beach to be Miami. Again two different cities, but assumed to be coterminous by many.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

Quote from: famartin on April 27, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:05:54 PM
Quote from: famartin on April 27, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Not the point.  A state capital should be known to drivers even if it is 6 miles off the beaten path.  For Wilmington drivers who stay on the Turnpike to the end either use US 13 south or continue on I-95.  Wilmington is the perfect place to describe that.  Before it was Del. Mem. Br. as many were familiar with that bridge as the link from the north to the south. 

Nobody ever heard of Farnhurst where Route 13 meets I-295.  New Castle is too small to denote, but everyone considers the area around Wilmington to be Wilmington so being the turnpike sort of ends there ( however NJDOT wants you to think it crosses the Delaware Memorial Bridge hence I-295 ramp signs on Route 140 considering the Turnpike continuing over the bridge into Delaware) so Wilmington is fine.
Going south, Wilmington is a backtrack.

Not enough for it to matter
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/New+York/Wilmington,+DE/@40.2042072,-75.340863,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m18!4m17!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c24fa5d33f083b:0xc80b8f06e177fe62!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c70f185c46af6f:0x8516da5077308c00!2m2!1d-75.5483909!2d39.744655!2m3!6e1!7e2!8j1619488800!3e0
Is most traffic going south on the NJ Turnpike going to Wilmington or further on to Maryland/DC?

I wasn't arguing that point.  Just stating a fact, that the fastest way to Wilmington from points north is the turnpike.


Google tends to give some odd routing from points far away.  It doesn't make too much sense to exit the NJ Turnpike at Exit 9, then take US 1 to 295 to 95 thru PA to get to Wilmington.  However, if you were to exit the Turnpike at Exits 4, 3 or even 2 to cross over into PA to 95 South, the time and distance difference is much more marginal.

Remember, the long, never ending, ongoing argument is using Wilmington as a control city south of Interchange 6.  By exiting at Interchange 9, the argument is moot.

That said, there tends to be a cutoff point for the fastest way to Wilmington, which is around Delaware Ave (DE 52).  If you're going to points north of that, exiting the NJ Turnpike and taking the Commodore Barry Bridge is generally the fastest.  South of that, staying on the Turnpike is fastest.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 27, 2021, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:05:54 PMIs most traffic going south on the NJ Turnpike going to Wilmington or further on to Maryland/DC?
Further south. Some of it may exit onto US-13 / DE-1 South, but I'd estimate the vast majority are staying on I-95 South into Maryland towards Baltimore / DC.

Generally speaking, most of it will continue onto 95 South (although I would also say the vast majority may exit 95 before reaching Baltimore).   At least after crossing the Del Mem Bridge, the lane configuration bears that out:  After 295 narrows down to 4 lanes after the bridge's toll plaza, there's 1 lane for 13/40, leaving 3 lanes for 295.  The 4th lane reappears after the ramp from US 13 South merges into 295 South.  That lane is now for both Northbound 495 and 95.  Of the other 3 lanes, 2 lanes merge into 95 South, with the far left lane exiting for 141 North.  And the way this is all configured kinda details the future for 295 South:  That left lane can also easily become a 3rd lane to continue onto 95 South as well.

The is a departure from the past, where after the toll plaza, the 2 right lanes exited for 13/40, the 2 left lanes remained for 95 South.   The ramp from 13 North became a 3rd 295 lane on the left, and the ramp from 13 South became a 4th 295 lane on the right.  That lane exited for 495 North.  The right-center lane was the Exit Only lane for 95 North.  The left 2 lanes merged into 95 South, which also included the ramp for 141 North breaking off from the left lane.

So...all of that to say, traffic patterns bear out that most traffic crossing the Bridge eventually do head for 95 South.  141 North sees a decent amount of traffic, but traffic going north on 495 & 95 is mostly light enough that it actually lost a lane.

Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 05:54:00 PM
It don't have to be a capital.  It's metro area goes south of I-295. Most people consider New Castle to be Wilmington as much as people consider Miami Beach to be Miami. Again two different cities, but assumed to be coterminous by many.

I think it's worth repeating:  Wilmington. Is. Not. The. Capital. Of. Delaware.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 27, 2021, 09:59:35 PM
Quote from: famartin on April 27, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:05:54 PM
Quote from: famartin on April 27, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Not the point.  A state capital should be known to drivers even if it is 6 miles off the beaten path.  For Wilmington drivers who stay on the Turnpike to the end either use US 13 south or continue on I-95.  Wilmington is the perfect place to describe that.  Before it was Del. Mem. Br. as many were familiar with that bridge as the link from the north to the south. 

Nobody ever heard of Farnhurst where Route 13 meets I-295.  New Castle is too small to denote, but everyone considers the area around Wilmington to be Wilmington so being the turnpike sort of ends there ( however NJDOT wants you to think it crosses the Delaware Memorial Bridge hence I-295 ramp signs on Route 140 considering the Turnpike continuing over the bridge into Delaware) so Wilmington is fine.
Going south, Wilmington is a backtrack.

Not enough for it to matter
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/New+York/Wilmington,+DE/@40.2042072,-75.340863,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m18!4m17!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c24fa5d33f083b:0xc80b8f06e177fe62!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c70f185c46af6f:0x8516da5077308c00!2m2!1d-75.5483909!2d39.744655!2m3!6e1!7e2!8j1619488800!3e0
Is most traffic going south on the NJ Turnpike going to Wilmington or further on to Maryland/DC?

I wasn't arguing that point.  Just stating a fact, that the fastest way to Wilmington from points north is the turnpike.


Google tends to give some odd routing from points far away.  It doesn't make too much sense to exit the NJ Turnpike at Exit 9, then take US 1 to 295 to 95 thru PA to get to Wilmington.  However, if you were to exit the Turnpike at Exits 4, 3 or even 2 to cross over into PA to 95 South, the time and distance difference is much more marginal.

Remember, the long, never ending, ongoing argument is using Wilmington as a control city south of Interchange 6.  By exiting at Interchange 9, the argument is moot.

That said, there tends to be a cutoff point for the fastest way to Wilmington, which is around Delaware Ave (DE 52).  If you're going to points north of that, exiting the NJ Turnpike and taking the Commodore Barry Bridge is generally the fastest.  South of that, staying on the Turnpike is fastest.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 27, 2021, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:05:54 PMIs most traffic going south on the NJ Turnpike going to Wilmington or further on to Maryland/DC?
Further south. Some of it may exit onto US-13 / DE-1 South, but I'd estimate the vast majority are staying on I-95 South into Maryland towards Baltimore / DC.

Generally speaking, most of it will continue onto 95 South (although I would also say the vast majority may exit 95 before reaching Baltimore).   At least after crossing the Del Mem Bridge, the lane configuration bears that out:  After 295 narrows down to 4 lanes after the bridge's toll plaza, there's 1 lane for 13/40, leaving 3 lanes for 295.  The 4th lane reappears after the ramp from US 13 South merges into 295 South.  That lane is now for both Northbound 495 and 95.  Of the other 3 lanes, 2 lanes merge into 95 South, with the far left lane exiting for 141 North.  And the way this is all configured kinda details the future for 295 South:  That left lane can also easily become a 3rd lane to continue onto 95 South as well.

The is a departure from the past, where after the toll plaza, the 2 right lanes exited for 13/40, the 2 left lanes remained for 95 South.   The ramp from 13 North became a 3rd 295 lane on the left, and the ramp from 13 South became a 4th 295 lane on the right.  That lane exited for 495 North.  The right-center lane was the Exit Only lane for 95 North.  The left 2 lanes merged into 95 South, which also included the ramp for 141 North breaking off from the left lane.

So...all of that to say, traffic patterns bear out that most traffic crossing the Bridge eventually do head for 95 South.  141 North sees a decent amount of traffic, but traffic going north on 495 & 95 is mostly light enough that it actually lost a lane.

Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 05:54:00 PM
It don't have to be a capital.  It's metro area goes south of I-295. Most people consider New Castle to be Wilmington as much as people consider Miami Beach to be Miami. Again two different cities, but assumed to be coterminous by many.

I think it's worth repeating:  Wilmington. Is. Not. The. Capital. Of. Delaware.
Poor Dover doesn't even have an Interstate.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Rothman

It's a pity this thread is being cluttered up with this control city baloney.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Rothman on April 27, 2021, 10:32:18 PM
It's a pity this thread is being cluttered up with this control city baloney.
I like control city discussion when Highwaystar is not involved.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

roadman65

Quote from: Rothman on April 27, 2021, 10:32:18 PM
It's a pity this thread is being cluttered up with this control city baloney.

Yeah its a shame.  Just like another thread on here where some newby cluttered up another thread to say Baltimore should not be mentioned on I-70 because it don't go there.

I am playing my violin right now.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: roadman65 on April 28, 2021, 02:44:53 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 27, 2021, 10:32:18 PM
It's a pity this thread is being cluttered up with this control city baloney.

Yeah its a shame.  Just like another thread on here where some newby cluttered up another thread to say Baltimore should not be mentioned on I-70 because it don't go there.

I am playing my violin right now.
I've noticed a lot of quite energetic new users lately... reminds me of 2017 when I first joined.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

bluecountry

Quote from: roadman65 on April 26, 2021, 09:09:58 AM
Quote from: bluecountry on April 26, 2021, 09:00:49 AM
Quote from: paul02474 on April 09, 2021, 09:23:18 AM
Quote from: famartin on April 09, 2021, 09:06:28 AM

Wilmington metro (New Castle County) has almost double the population of Trenton metro (Mercer County), if that counts for anything.

Also, Trenton is now about 5 miles from I-95's closest approach to the city limits. By comparison, the end of the NJ Turnpike is only 2 miles from the Wilmington land limits (closer if you include what is the Delaware River portion of the city).

You are making my argument for me. By engaging in the argument of how far from the highway (2 miles to the edge of the corporate limits versus 5 miles), or the size of the county, you acknowledge the difference between Wilmington and Trenton is small enough to engage in a reasonable debate.

All I am saying is that we can debate the merits of Philadelphia - Baltimore versus Trenton - Wilmington. I don't think you can justify Trenton - Baltimore or Philadelphia - Wilmington.

Trenton is a minor city, Wilmington is a pretty big city right off I-95, and 65 miles from Baltimore.
It does not make sense to sign Baltimore in New Jersey before Wilmington.
Makes much sense to sign Baltimore after Wilmington, especially given the 65 mile gap.

The NJTA is not the first to use minor cities over bigger ones. Benson is popular on I-95 in NC and so is using Naples on I-75 south in all ramps south of Wesley Chapel.  The latter is a minor one compared to previous Fort Myers which is a major one in SW Florida.

Seriously, you are comparing I-95 in NC?
Philly is not Fayettville or Raleigh, it is the 4th largest city or close to it in the US, it deserves to be the control city.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 27, 2021, 09:30:47 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 01:59:43 AM
Wilmington is prominent as it's the crossroads to the Delmarva and I-95 heading south.  Trenton is the capital of the state. Sign it with Philly out of North Jersey. Leave Wilmington south of Mansfield.

Wilmington is bypassed by 295 to 95 on the south side. 

Non-stop arguments are made on these forums that 95 shouldn't even go thru Wilmington, and should be switched to the faster bypass.  This is probably one of the most common contradictions I see written - people want to use Wilmington as a control city, cities should be used only on highways that go thru cities, but then route its only 2 di interstate highway around the city (yes, sure, it will still 'touch' the city, but only because the city's borders extend into the river).

On Northbound 95, no one ever makes the argument that Wilmington should be signed in Maryland, and even Delaware doesn't sign 95 for Wilmington until you're north of DE 1.

If Wilmington was nearly any place else in the country, it would be of greater importance.  And if we were talking about other subjects, it would be of greater importance.  But in terms of roads and highways and destinations, Wilmington as a control city doesn't "drive" people to the city, and more often than not people look for highways to avoid the city.

Wilmington is RIGHT off the DEMB, you can see it clearly from the bridge.
Unlike Trenton which is maybe 35 miles from Philly, Wilmington is 65 miles from Baltimore.

It makes more sense to have Wilmington/Wash-Bal as the control cities then just Baltimore.


Roadgeekteen

Quote from: bluecountry on April 28, 2021, 11:00:39 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 26, 2021, 09:09:58 AM
Quote from: bluecountry on April 26, 2021, 09:00:49 AM
Quote from: paul02474 on April 09, 2021, 09:23:18 AM
Quote from: famartin on April 09, 2021, 09:06:28 AM

Wilmington metro (New Castle County) has almost double the population of Trenton metro (Mercer County), if that counts for anything.

Also, Trenton is now about 5 miles from I-95's closest approach to the city limits. By comparison, the end of the NJ Turnpike is only 2 miles from the Wilmington land limits (closer if you include what is the Delaware River portion of the city).

You are making my argument for me. By engaging in the argument of how far from the highway (2 miles to the edge of the corporate limits versus 5 miles), or the size of the county, you acknowledge the difference between Wilmington and Trenton is small enough to engage in a reasonable debate.

All I am saying is that we can debate the merits of Philadelphia - Baltimore versus Trenton - Wilmington. I don't think you can justify Trenton - Baltimore or Philadelphia - Wilmington.

Trenton is a minor city, Wilmington is a pretty big city right off I-95, and 65 miles from Baltimore.
It does not make sense to sign Baltimore in New Jersey before Wilmington.
Makes much sense to sign Baltimore after Wilmington, especially given the 65 mile gap.

The NJTA is not the first to use minor cities over bigger ones. Benson is popular on I-95 in NC and so is using Naples on I-75 south in all ramps south of Wesley Chapel.  The latter is a minor one compared to previous Fort Myers which is a major one in SW Florida.

Seriously, you are comparing I-95 in NC?
Philly is not Fayettville or Raleigh, it is the 4th largest city or close to it in the US, it deserves to be the control city.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 27, 2021, 09:30:47 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2021, 01:59:43 AM
Wilmington is prominent as it's the crossroads to the Delmarva and I-95 heading south.  Trenton is the capital of the state. Sign it with Philly out of North Jersey. Leave Wilmington south of Mansfield.

Wilmington is bypassed by 295 to 95 on the south side. 

Non-stop arguments are made on these forums that 95 shouldn't even go thru Wilmington, and should be switched to the faster bypass.  This is probably one of the most common contradictions I see written - people want to use Wilmington as a control city, cities should be used only on highways that go thru cities, but then route its only 2 di interstate highway around the city (yes, sure, it will still 'touch' the city, but only because the city's borders extend into the river).

On Northbound 95, no one ever makes the argument that Wilmington should be signed in Maryland, and even Delaware doesn't sign 95 for Wilmington until you're north of DE 1.

If Wilmington was nearly any place else in the country, it would be of greater importance.  And if we were talking about other subjects, it would be of greater importance.  But in terms of roads and highways and destinations, Wilmington as a control city doesn't "drive" people to the city, and more often than not people look for highways to avoid the city.

Wilmington is RIGHT off the DEMB, you can see it clearly from the bridge.
Unlike Trenton which is maybe 35 miles from Philly, Wilmington is 65 miles from Baltimore.

It makes more sense to have Wilmington/Wash-Bal as the control cities then just Baltimore.
But most traffic is going to Baltimore/Washington.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

jeffandnicole

Quote from: bluecountry on April 28, 2021, 11:00:39 PM
It makes more sense to have Wilmington/Wash-Bal as the control cities then just Baltimore.

Then why isn't Wilmington used on Northbound 95 out of Baltimore?

Roadgeekteen

Wilmington is basically a Philly exburb. Sign in SB out of Philly and that's it.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Alps

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 28, 2021, 11:37:36 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on April 28, 2021, 11:00:39 PM
It makes more sense to have Wilmington/Wash-Bal as the control cities then just Baltimore.

Then why isn't Wilmington used on Northbound 95 out of Baltimore?
I'd say it should be! States are very bad at using the next control city.

famartin

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 28, 2021, 11:37:36 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on April 28, 2021, 11:00:39 PM
It makes more sense to have Wilmington/Wash-Bal as the control cities then just Baltimore.

Then why isn't Wilmington used on Northbound 95 out of Baltimore?

Maryland thumbs its nose at Delaware  :-D

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Alps on April 29, 2021, 12:54:58 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 28, 2021, 11:37:36 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on April 28, 2021, 11:00:39 PM
It makes more sense to have Wilmington/Wash-Bal as the control cities then just Baltimore.

Then why isn't Wilmington used on Northbound 95 out of Baltimore?
I'd say it should be! States are very bad at using the next control city.
They should use Philadelphia.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

storm2k

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 28, 2021, 11:37:36 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on April 28, 2021, 11:00:39 PM
It makes more sense to have Wilmington/Wash-Bal as the control cities then just Baltimore.

Then why isn't Wilmington used on Northbound 95 out of Baltimore?

I always figured the thinking is that the majority of the traffic on that stretch of 95 out of Baltimore is headed to the NJ/NYC area, and that's why they do that.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: storm2k on April 29, 2021, 10:49:19 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 28, 2021, 11:37:36 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on April 28, 2021, 11:00:39 PM
It makes more sense to have Wilmington/Wash-Bal as the control cities then just Baltimore.

Then why isn't Wilmington used on Northbound 95 out of Baltimore?

I always figured the thinking is that the majority of the traffic on that stretch of 95 out of Baltimore is headed to the NJ/NYC area, and that's why they do that.
Don't they also use Camden on the NJ Turnpike at times?
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

famartin

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 03:14:00 PM
Quote from: storm2k on April 29, 2021, 10:49:19 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 28, 2021, 11:37:36 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on April 28, 2021, 11:00:39 PM
It makes more sense to have Wilmington/Wash-Bal as the control cities then just Baltimore.

Then why isn't Wilmington used on Northbound 95 out of Baltimore?

I always figured the thinking is that the majority of the traffic on that stretch of 95 out of Baltimore is headed to the NJ/NYC area, and that's why they do that.
Don't they also use Camden on the NJ Turnpike at times?

Yes, just southbound, from 7A to 5. Camden is primary except at 6, where Wilmington is also signed.



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