Phoenix Area Highways

[kernals12]

The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn't uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.

In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I'll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn't that spread out with the job market.  There isn't much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother's house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

[Max Rockatansky]

The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn't uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.

In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I'll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn't that spread out with the job market.  There isn't much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother's house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn't enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That's not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don't know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability. 

[brad2971]

The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn't uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.

In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I'll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn't that spread out with the job market.  There isn't much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother's house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn't enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That's not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don't know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability. 

Salt Lake City and the entire Wasatch range, at the moment, meet that list just as much, if not more than, Phoenix does. Then again, it depends upon how much snow SoCal residents want to put up with.

[Max Rockatansky]

The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn't uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.

In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I'll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn't that spread out with the job market.  There isn't much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother's house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn't enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That's not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don't know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability. 

Salt Lake City and the entire Wasatch range, at the moment, meet that list just as much, if not more than, Phoenix does. Then again, it depends upon how much snow SoCal residents want to put up with.

I would agree that Salt Lake City hits all the marks far more than say Boise does.  Talk about a city (Boise) that really needs some serious infrastructure improvements.  The traffic level in Boise was horrendous compared to a decade ago when I visited in September.  Considering how much my brother complained about traffic in Boise it prompted my asking he thought it was a good idea to move there from Phoenix?  Apparently Boise is the new big draw for a lot of people leaving California.

[DJStephens]

The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn't uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.

In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I'll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn't that spread out with the job market.  There isn't much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother's house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn't enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That's not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don't know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability.

Well there is las Cruces.  But it fails in terms of robust infrastructure and economic opportunity.  There is currently a "boomlet" of housing being built, but no foresight, or planning seems to be in place to deal with the increase in traffic.   That will happen, despite the "green" city council here.  The '99 - '04 US 70 "improvements" will soon show their shortcomings, where they could have been constructed then, with higher standards, with an eye towards future (meaning currently) traffic loads.   

[Max Rockatansky]

The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn't uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.

In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I'll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn't that spread out with the job market.  There isn't much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother's house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn't enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That's not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don't know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability.

Well there is las Cruces.  But it fails in terms of robust infrastructure and economic opportunity.  There is currently a "boomlet" of housing being built, but no foresight, or planning seems to be in place to deal with the increase in traffic.   That will happen, despite the "green" city council here.  The '99 - '04 US 70 "improvements" will soon show their shortcomings, where they could have been constructed then, with higher standards, with an eye towards future (meaning currently) traffic loads.

The freeway segment of US 70 east from I-25 towards Organ is one of the strangest limited access roadways I've driven.  I used it frequently while visiting Alamogordo and Ruidoso during work trips.  Having to call the Missile Hotline to see if test were being conducted at White Sands over US 70 was always a hoot.

[kernals12]

So how does Phoenix get away with what appear on Google Maps to be very closely spaced interchanges, particularly on the Superstition Freeway?

[jakeroot]

So how does Phoenix get away with what appear on Google Maps to be very closely spaced interchanges, particularly on the Superstition Freeway?

I can't necessarily be sure how well it works, but the Phoenix area in general has a lot of auxiliary lanes between on- and off-ramps. Almost all have ramp meters as well, so flow onto the freeway is managed to not interfere significantly with traffic attempting to use the succeeding off-ramp. There are also some parts of Phoenix freeways that have collector-distributor carriageways (I-17/Black Canyon Fwy).

My main gripe is that the shorter auxiliary lanes are still often exit-only lanes for the next exit. In many of these situations (only those where there is no option lane in addition to an exit-only lane), I feel continuing the lane beyond the off-ramp and then ending the lane at a designated merge point would help cut down on the "stop and merge" behavior that is often witnessed within auxiliary lanes. As there is no clear point at which traffic should merge, traffic needing to enter the mainlines often needs to slow down significantly to merge, hindering the flow of traffic trying to exit the freeway behind them. In similar situations here in Seattle, it's not uncommon to see drivers travel into the gore area to merge if they failed to find an adequate point to merge.

To be fair, from what I know about Phoenix (from here, personal experience, and my family (about half of which live in the Phoenix area)), it seems traffic flows pretty good most of the time, rendering the aforementioned "stop and merge" issue fairly minor.

[KeithE4Phx]

So how does Phoenix get away with what appear on Google Maps to be very closely spaced interchanges, particularly on the Superstition Freeway?

Phoenix's arterial streets are exactly one mile apart, and the freeway interchanges reflect that.

[rower155]

So how does Phoenix get away with what appear on Google Maps to be very closely spaced interchanges, particularly on the Superstition Freeway?

Phoenix's arterial streets are exactly one mile apart, and the freeway interchanges reflect that.

One mile spacing can work fine. It is considered the minimum spacing in urban areas, but that is still acceptable. In the early 2000's, including continuous auxiliary lanes between interchanges spaced 2 miles or less apart became the ADOT standard. This consistency has helped with driver expectation.

[Bobby5280]

With heavy enough traffic levels "braided" on/off ramps will be necessary to reduce weaving conflicts, even if the exits are spaced at least a mile apart. Superstition Freeway doesn't have many braided ramps at all.

[rower155]

With heavy enough traffic levels "braided" on/off ramps will be necessary to reduce weaving conflicts, even if the exits are spaced at least a mile apart. Superstition Freeway doesn't have many braided ramps at all.

Of the 24 service interchanges on the Superstition, which ones would you propose to braid?

[Plutonic Panda]

With heavy enough traffic levels "braided" on/off ramps will be necessary to reduce weaving conflicts, even if the exits are spaced at least a mile apart. Superstition Freeway doesn't have many braided ramps at all.

Of the 24 service interchanges on the Superstition, which ones would you propose to braid?

All of them. Would that make it the longest consecutive amount of braided ramps in the world?

[rower155]

With heavy enough traffic levels "braided" on/off ramps will be necessary to reduce weaving conflicts, even if the exits are spaced at least a mile apart. Superstition Freeway doesn't have many braided ramps at all.

Of the 24 service interchanges on the Superstition, which ones would you propose to braid?

All of them. Would that make it the longest consecutive amount of braided ramps in the world?

There's no gain by braiding consecutive service interchanges like these. Lay out the geometry. It still has the same weave, but with a shorter distance to merge. Not to mention the significantly higher cost and R/W required.

[DJStephens]

The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn't uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.

In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I'll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn't that spread out with the job market.  There isn't much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother's house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn't enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That's not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don't know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability.

Well there is las Cruces.  But it fails in terms of robust infrastructure and economic opportunity.  There is currently a "boomlet" of housing being built, but no foresight, or planning seems to be in place to deal with the increase in traffic.   That will happen, despite the "green" city council here.  The '99 - '04 US 70 "improvements" will soon show their shortcomings, where they could have been constructed then, with higher standards, with an eye towards future (meaning currently) traffic loads.

The freeway segment of US 70 east from I-25 towards Organ is one of the strangest limited access roadways I've driven.  I used it frequently while visiting Alamogordo and Ruidoso during work trips.  Having to call the Missile Hotline to see if test were being conducted at White Sands over US 70 was always a hoot.

Am not going to derail this thread, it is about Phoenix not las Cruces, but the US 70 "expressway" segment, E of I-25 was built on the cheap.  Gary Johnson and Pete Rahn.  Nothing else needs to be said.   But continuing on the topic of Auxiliary lanes, and the Superstition Frwy, yes those N-S arterials in the Chandler / Tempe / Gilbert / Mesa areas are exactly a mile apart.  Probably got that sensibility from Chicago and Detroit.   Some of the US 70 exits in las Cruces are very close - about 3/8 to 1/2 mile apart.  And an auxiliary lane, between them, on one side, but not the other!   

[Roadwarriors79]

As far as braided ramps in the Phoenix area go, most of them seem to be near freeway-to-freeway interchanges. For newer builds, ADOT has used a combination of half interchanges and frontage roads to connect surface streets.

[US 89]

But continuing on the topic of Auxiliary lanes, and the Superstition Frwy, yes those N-S arterials in the Chandler / Tempe / Gilbert / Mesa areas are exactly a mile apart.  Probably got that sensibility from Chicago and Detroit.

Well, Phoenix suburban planners did not copy Chicago and Detroit, but the arterials are spaced a mile apart in all three cities for the same reason: the Public Land Survey System used by the federal government to survey and divide up new land since the US became its own country. That system divides land into 36-square-mile townships, which are themselves divided into 36 1-square-mile sections.  So if you build roads along the section lines, you’ll get a square grid of them spaced exactly 1 mile apart.

You can see this in most major US cities first settled after 1800 or so, especially west of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio River. Aside from the 3 cities already named, the section line road grid is pretty obvious in places like Las Vegas, Boise, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Milwaukee, Miami, and more... and it’s still there but maybe a little less obvious in places like Indianapolis, Denver, Salt Lake City...

[Rothman]

But continuing on the topic of Auxiliary lanes, and the Superstition Frwy, yes those N-S arterials in the Chandler / Tempe / Gilbert / Mesa areas are exactly a mile apart.  Probably got that sensibility from Chicago and Detroit.

Well, Phoenix suburban planners did not copy Chicago and Detroit, but the arterials are spaced a mile apart in all three cities for the same reason: the Public Land Survey System used by the federal government to survey and divide up new land since the US became its own country. That system divides land into 36-square-mile townships, which are themselves divided into 36 1-square-mile sections.  So if you build roads along the section lines, you'll get a square grid of them spaced exactly 1 mile apart.

You can see this in most major US cities first settled after 1800 or so, especially west of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio River. Aside from the 3 cities already named, the section line road grid is pretty obvious in places like Las Vegas, Boise, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Milwaukee, Miami, and more... and it's still there but maybe a little less obvious in places like Indianapolis, Denver, Salt Lake City...

Salt Lake was the "Mormon Grid" imported by Mormon pioneers from Nauvoo, IL (which actually rivaled Chicago in population...albeit briefly).  Latter-day Saints learned the hard way in Kirtland, OH and around Independence, MO what happens when you don't plan for significant numbers of immigrants (including exploitative real estate practices) and therefore were practically forced into planning their communities out (essentially a grid centered on a central square, sometimes and not always intended for a temple).

[US 89]

But continuing on the topic of Auxiliary lanes, and the Superstition Frwy, yes those N-S arterials in the Chandler / Tempe / Gilbert / Mesa areas are exactly a mile apart.  Probably got that sensibility from Chicago and Detroit.

Well, Phoenix suburban planners did not copy Chicago and Detroit, but the arterials are spaced a mile apart in all three cities for the same reason: the Public Land Survey System used by the federal government to survey and divide up new land since the US became its own country. That system divides land into 36-square-mile townships, which are themselves divided into 36 1-square-mile sections.  So if you build roads along the section lines, you'll get a square grid of them spaced exactly 1 mile apart.

You can see this in most major US cities first settled after 1800 or so, especially west of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio River. Aside from the 3 cities already named, the section line road grid is pretty obvious in places like Las Vegas, Boise, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Milwaukee, Miami, and more... and it's still there but maybe a little less obvious in places like Indianapolis, Denver, Salt Lake City...

Salt Lake was the "Mormon Grid" imported by Mormon pioneers from Nauvoo, IL (which actually rivaled Chicago in population...albeit briefly).  Latter-day Saints learned the hard way in Kirtland, OH and around Independence, MO what happens when you don't plan for significant numbers of immigrants (including exploitative real estate practices) and therefore were practically forced into planning their communities out (essentially a grid centered on a central square, sometimes and not always intended for a temple).

I wasn't talking downtown SLC. Look in the west and south valley.

[KeithE4Phx]

To be fair, from what I know about Phoenix (from here, personal experience, and my family (about half of which live in the Phoenix area)), it seems traffic flows pretty good most of the time, rendering the aforementioned "stop and merge" issue fairly minor.

The biggest problem here is that too many people have absolutely no clue how to merge onto a freeway.  Most of them are snowbirds from the Upper Midwest who aren't used to big-city traffic.  They drive scared, and drive way too slow on the on-ramps to properly merge onto the freeway. 

You'd better be doing at least 65 and use your turn signal if you want to live to get on a Phoenix freeway.  If you can't, then use the streets, Grandpa!

[Zonie]

But continuing on the topic of Auxiliary lanes, and the Superstition Frwy, yes those N-S arterials in the Chandler / Tempe / Gilbert / Mesa areas are exactly a mile apart.  Probably got that sensibility from Chicago and Detroit.

Well, Phoenix suburban planners did not copy Chicago and Detroit, but the arterials are spaced a mile apart in all three cities for the same reason: the Public Land Survey System used by the federal government to survey and divide up new land since the US became its own country. That system divides land into 36-square-mile townships, which are themselves divided into 36 1-square-mile sections.  So if you build roads along the section lines, you'll get a square grid of them spaced exactly 1 mile apart.

You can see this in most major US cities first settled after 1800 or so, especially west of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio River. Aside from the 3 cities already named, the section line road grid is pretty obvious in places like Las Vegas, Boise, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Milwaukee, Miami, and more... and it's still there but maybe a little less obvious in places like Indianapolis, Denver, Salt Lake City...

That Thomas Jefferson and the Northwest Ordinance!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-16/the-jefferson-grid-shows-the-american-west-through-one-square-mile-per-frame

[Sonic99]

To be fair, from what I know about Phoenix (from here, personal experience, and my family (about half of which live in the Phoenix area)), it seems traffic flows pretty good most of the time, rendering the aforementioned "stop and merge" issue fairly minor.

The biggest problem here is that too many people have absolutely no clue how to merge onto a freeway.  Most of them are snowbirds from the Upper Midwest who aren't used to big-city traffic.  They drive scared, and drive way too slow on the on-ramps to properly merge onto the freeway. 

You'd better be doing at least 65 and use your turn signal if you want to live to get on a Phoenix freeway.  If you can't, then use the streets, Grandpa!

JFC yes, especially in the last month, this crap is back. People doing 24 mph in the left lane of a major arterial street, going up the on-ramp to get on the freeway at 35, chilling in the right lane of the freeway with people trying to merge in and doing 45mph.

[KeithE4Phx]

To be fair, from what I know about Phoenix (from here, personal experience, and my family (about half of which live in the Phoenix area)), it seems traffic flows pretty good most of the time, rendering the aforementioned "stop and merge" issue fairly minor.

The biggest problem here is that too many people have absolutely no clue how to merge onto a freeway.  Most of them are snowbirds from the Upper Midwest who aren't used to big-city traffic.  They drive scared, and drive way too slow on the on-ramps to properly merge onto the freeway. 

You'd better be doing at least 65 and use your turn signal if you want to live to get on a Phoenix freeway.  If you can't, then use the streets, Grandpa!

JFC yes, especially in the last month, this crap is back. People doing 24 mph in the left lane of a major arterial street, going up the on-ramp to get on the freeway at 35, chilling in the right lane of the freeway with people trying to merge in and doing 45mph.

Most of the newer snowbirds these days are from the ultra-rural Dakotas, Montana, Nebraska, and northern Minnesota.  They're not used to the concept of paved roads, let alone freeways. 

[ztonyg]

ADOT has finally restarted the listing travel times on DMSs along the E/W leg of Loop 101 between I-17 and Pima Rd. They listed travel times prior to the construction project and then while the project was ongoing the travel times stopped.

If only ADOT would again list the travel time to 59th Ave on W/B I-10 and W/B (N/B) I-17 around downtown instead of only listing the travel time to I-17 and Peoria Ave on those signs.

[KeithE4Phx]

JFC yes, especially in the last month, this crap is back. People doing 24 mph in the left lane of a major arterial street, going up the on-ramp to get on the freeway at 35, chilling in the right lane of the freeway with people trying to merge in and doing 45mph.

I should also say that, now that the border is open, our Canadian friends are back.  Newsflash:  The speed limit on most of our streets is 45 MILES per hour, not kilometers, eh!