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Author Topic: Ohio  (Read 186735 times)

westerninterloper

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2015, 11:04:40 PM »

Here's a definition of the Midwest I proposed a few years ago that made it onto Andrew Sullivan's blog:

Germans: On this map of ethnic ancestry from the 2000 census, there’s a broad swath of German-plurality counties starting from central New York, through Pennsylvania stretching westward to the Rockies and beyond. Germans help define the southern border of the Midwest (though stray Finnish, Dutch and African-American counties are certainly Midwestern as well). Germans heavily influenced Midwestern architecture, food, religion, and its devotion to public education.  The “American” cultures of Kentucky and southern Missouri are southern – the accents change, Baptists predominate, and so does the food (it gets better down South, but that’s not Paula Deen’s doing). But not all German areas are Midwestern, so a limit to this is:

Grids. A central man-made feature of the Midwest is its grid pattern, which, thanks to the Land Ordinance of 1785 and Glaciation, stretches from south of Cleveland toward Cincinnati, and then west to the Rockies, defining the eastern and southern borders of the region. There are a few pockets where “queer” roads must follow the hills, such as around Bloomington, Indiana, or Athens, Ohio, or in the Ozarks. Those areas are on the fringes of the Midwest. Driving a Detroit-made sedan or pick-up truck down a straight state highway is a Midwestern rite of passage. So straight roads and flatlands (not Appalachian or Ozark zomias) help define the Midwest. This grid was made possible in part by Glaciation, which covered the land with very fertile soil. So the last characteristic is:

Gardens. (I couldn’t find a better synonym for farms that maintained the alliteration.) Anywhere that farming occurs on a wide scale and without irrigation is Midwestern, which defines the western border from about Joplin, Missouri, northward to Topeka, Lincoln continuing to just west of Fargo. Northern Michigan and Wisconsin are also peripherally Midwestern, and I suspect residents of those regions agree, though I can’t speak to northern Minnesota.

Putting this all together, Germans, Grids and Gardens means the Midwest begins in Downtown Cleveland, south to about Athens, Ohio, then west about Cape Girardeau, Missouri, with a bump up I-55 to St. Louis, and back down I-44 to Joplin, then north to Topeka, Lincoln, west of Fargo, to Canada.

The links are available here:
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/07/24/where-is-the-midwest-ctd-2/
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westerninterloper

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2015, 11:07:05 PM »

For the purposes of this discussion, though I would make it easy: Anything south of I-70 is Ohio Valley; Anything north is Midwest. I think that's how the two sections are divided when it comes to posts about Indiana.
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mrsman

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2015, 06:00:54 AM »

While I advocated for a different regional split, I understand that it would be difficult for the moderators to go back and reclassify thousands of old posts into different regions.  (And I don't have the time to volunteer for that job).  But this thread leads to the conclusion that the two midwest regions (Great Lakes + Ohio Valley) should probably be combined into one as IL, IN, and OH should probably all be within one region.  PA is in three regions!

If the two regions would be combined, we'd have approx. 24,000 posts in the combined group.  That's still less than the approx. 27,000 posts in Northeast region.  We'd still have states that are split, but it would make things a lot easier.
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vtk

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2015, 11:25:38 AM »

Could we instead have this discussion in another thread, such as this one?
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Buck87

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2015, 05:18:20 PM »

I-480 eastbound closed in Cleveland due to a car chase / police shooting incident.

http://fox8.com/2015/10/15/i-480-eastbound-closed-between-state-and-ridge-road-after-police-involved-incident/


I happened to get caught up in the traffic, while on my way from dropping off someone at the airport and eating lunch in Independence. All eastbound traffic on 480 was being forced to exit onto Ridge Rd, and I must have gotten to the area fairly soon after it happened as I encountered stopped traffic just before the 1/4 mile BGS for that exit. Took maybe 20 minutes to get off the intersatte, and I ended up taking Ridge Rd to Snow/Rockside to get where I was going.

On the way back, about an hour later, 480 westbound had a rubbernecking slowdown leading up to the incident site (just east of State Rd) and then was fine after that. By this time traffic on EB 480 had backed up from Ridge Rd almost all the way to 71, and the police had closed the on ramps to 480 east from 71 and the interchanges east of it. Once I got west of 71 I saw that they were forcing all 480 eastbound traffic onto the 71 entrance ramp.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 05:20:37 PM by Buck87 »
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Purgatory On Wheels

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2015, 08:16:38 PM »

With Ohio adding exit numbers and tabs to many non-interstates recently, it seems that the (mostly-) freeway from I-270 to Newark could benefit from some.  But since it's made up of 3 different state routes (161, 37, and 16), how would exits be numbered?
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vtk

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2015, 11:35:44 PM »

With Ohio adding exit numbers and tabs to many non-interstates recently, it seems that the (mostly-) freeway from I-270 to Newark could benefit from some.  But since it's made up of 3 different state routes (161, 37, and 16), how would exits be numbered?

They could do the sensible thing, and treat the Columbus– Newcomerstown Macro-Corridor as the main route, and number the exits consistently, starting with 1A–D at 270 / Sunbury / Little Turtle. But they won't do that.

I noticed the other day that the New Albany Bypass has its original button copy signage from circa 2000. That will probably be replaced in a few years, and gain exit numbers based on the state mileage of OH 161. This work will likely include only the Hamilton Rd, New Albany Rd, and US 62 exits, because signage east and west of there is newer.

Thinking wishfully, ODOT might come up with a statewide exit numbering plan that makes sense in the big picture before they haphazardly slap exit numbers on 16, 37, 79, and 161 in Licking County.
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Look, over by the restrooms! It's a girl! It's a boy! No, it's Captain Enby!

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Purgatory On Wheels

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2015, 11:52:16 PM »

They could do the sensible thing, and treat the Columbus– Newcomerstown Macro-Corridor as the main route, and number the exits consistently, starting with 1A–D at 270 / Sunbury / Little Turtle. But they won't do that.

I noticed the other day that the New Albany Bypass has its original button copy signage from circa 2000. That will probably be replaced in a few years, and gain exit numbers based on the state mileage of OH 161. This work will likely include only the Hamilton Rd, New Albany Rd, and US 62 exits, because signage east and west of there is newer.

Thinking wishfully, ODOT might come up with a statewide exit numbering plan that makes sense in the big picture before they haphazardly slap exit numbers on 16, 37, 79, and 161 in Licking County.

How hard would it be to give the entire corridor a single number? It couldn't all be 16, since that belongs on Broad St, but they could extend 161 out to Newcomerstown and truncate 16 in Granville. Or give it a completely new number.
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vtk

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2015, 12:53:25 AM »

They could do the sensible thing, and treat the Columbus– Newcomerstown Macro-Corridor as the main route, and number the exits consistently, starting with 1A–D at 270 / Sunbury / Little Turtle. But they won't do that.

I noticed the other day that the New Albany Bypass has its original button copy signage from circa 2000. That will probably be replaced in a few years, and gain exit numbers based on the state mileage of OH 161. This work will likely include only the Hamilton Rd, New Albany Rd, and US 62 exits, because signage east and west of there is newer.

Thinking wishfully, ODOT might come up with a statewide exit numbering plan that makes sense in the big picture before they haphazardly slap exit numbers on 16, 37, 79, and 161 in Licking County.

How hard would it be to give the entire corridor a single number? It couldn't all be 16, since that belongs on Broad St, but they could extend 161 out to Newcomerstown and truncate 16 in Granville. Or give it a completely new number.

There's no reason 16 has to run down Broad St. From Granville, the best connection to Columbus is now via New Albany, and I would be completely in favor of rerouting 16 accordingly.

The question of "how hard is it" depends on perspective.  I think it would be very hard for a few roadgeeks to convince multiple ODOT districts to persue the change. From ODOT's perspective, it might not be too hard to ram the change through the public information process, but there's a question of motivation.  There's almost no recent history of changing state routes just to make the system more logical and/or consistent, so I'm not optimistic this corridor will see any numbering changes in the forseeable future.
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Look, over by the restrooms! It's a girl! It's a boy! No, it's Captain Enby!

…Do you think they're trying to decide which one to use?

sandwalk

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2015, 05:21:36 PM »

There's almost no recent history of changing state routes just to make the system more logical and/or consistent

Very true.  There are a handful of corridors I can think of off the top of my head where this is the case.

*  US-23 / SR-15 expressway set-up in northwest Ohio
    https://goo.gl/eDyrIt

*  US-20 / SR-10 freeway west of I-480 in northeast Ohio
    https://goo.gl/wOYUhf

*  SR-5 / SR-82 / Warren Outer Belt , to a lesser extent
    https://goo.gl/5xWuJJ

Can these corridors have a unifying number? Sure. Do they really need a unifying number? Who knows, but probably not....
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silverback1065

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2015, 04:50:33 PM »

What are the highway configurations at Cleveland's public square? I heard they removed some streets recently.
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GCrites80s

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2015, 10:23:58 PM »

They just demo'ed the pedestrian walkway over the freeway section of OH-104 between US-23 and Lockbourne Rd. in Columbus. I wasn't expecting it. Does anybody know what this walkway served, such as a school? Far as I can tell it was built in 1987 when 104 was extended from US-23 to US-33 to replace Refugee Rd.
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vtk

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2015, 04:03:24 AM »

They just demo'ed the pedestrian walkway over the freeway section of OH-104 between US-23 and Lockbourne Rd. in Columbus. I wasn't expecting it. Does anybody know what this walkway served, such as a school? Far as I can tell it was built in 1987 when 104 was extended from US-23 to US-33 to replace Refugee Rd.

Yeah, apparently that's why 104 was closed Saturday night into Sunday between those exits.

Given the mix of industrial and low-income residential landuses in the area, I would guess walking to work was common in that neighborhood when the freeway was built, so the pedestrian bridge was included so as not to disrupt that.  Just a year or two ago I recall some work was done on that bridge; I think they were rehabilitating the concrete on the stair structures, or something.
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Look, over by the restrooms! It's a girl! It's a boy! No, it's Captain Enby!

…Do you think they're trying to decide which one to use?

westerninterloper

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2015, 08:06:55 PM »

There's almost no recent history of changing state routes just to make the system more logical and/or consistent

Very true.  There are a handful of corridors I can think of off the top of my head where this is the case.

*  US-23 / SR-15 expressway set-up in northwest Ohio
    https://goo.gl/eDyrIt

*  US-20 / SR-10 freeway west of I-480 in northeast Ohio
    https://goo.gl/wOYUhf

*  SR-5 / SR-82 / Warren Outer Belt , to a lesser extent
    https://goo.gl/5xWuJJ

Can these corridors have a unifying number? Sure. Do they really need a unifying number? Who knows, but probably not....

I don't think anyone is confused by the OH15-US23 configuration between Upper Sandusky and Findlay, and the BGSs make it clear that 15 will take you to I-75, but the routing of US23 is a bit strange there. I'm pretty sure it's because of Fostoria, which has really suffered not having connections to an interstate, wanting to maintain a connection to a national highway, but eventually I think US 23 should just continue to I-75 in Findlay up to Perrysburg.
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GCrites80s

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2015, 10:08:01 PM »

Hey, it's you!
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westerninterloper

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2015, 10:28:58 AM »

Hey, it's you!

Yes, they finally let me in. I think I'm just about the only NW Ohio resident on any of these boards.
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JCinSummerfield

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2015, 01:23:02 PM »

Hey, it's you!

Yes, they finally let me in. I think I'm just about the only NW Ohio resident on any of these boards.

You're not the only one.  There's someone from Toledo here, but I can't recall his handle right now.
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vtk

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2015, 03:31:47 AM »

Since we don't have a thread for I-70 in the M/GL region that I'm aware of, and I don't feel like starting one at the moment, I'll note this here.

Construction has started on I-70 to add a lane in each direction between Hilliard–Rome Rd and I-270 on the west side of Columbus. ODOT hasn't made any renderings or schematics conveniently available to the public, so I'm not sure exactly what the final configuration will look like.
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Look, over by the restrooms! It's a girl! It's a boy! No, it's Captain Enby!

…Do you think they're trying to decide which one to use?

thenetwork

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2015, 10:40:04 AM »

There's almost no recent history of changing state routes just to make the system more logical and/or consistent

Very true.  There are a handful of corridors I can think of off the top of my head where this is the case.

*  US-23 / SR-15 expressway set-up in northwest Ohio
    https://goo.gl/eDyrIt

*  US-20 / SR-10 freeway west of I-480 in northeast Ohio
    https://goo.gl/wOYUhf

*  SR-5 / SR-82 / Warren Outer Belt , to a lesser extent
    https://goo.gl/5xWuJJ

Can these corridors have a unifying number? Sure. Do they really need a unifying number? Who knows, but probably not....

I don't think anyone is confused by the OH15-US23 configuration between Upper Sandusky and Findlay, and the BGSs make it clear that 15 will take you to I-75, but the routing of US23 is a bit strange there. I'm pretty sure it's because of Fostoria, which has really suffered not having connections to an interstate, wanting to maintain a connection to a national highway, but eventually I think US 23 should just continue to I-75 in Findlay up to Perrysburg.

Or at least revert US-23 back to it's original alignment along modern-day OH-199 to Perrysburg.
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Buck87

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2015, 08:19:24 PM »

Update on the Ironton-Russell bridge:

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6a

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Ohio
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2015, 06:40:19 PM »

Since we don't have a thread for I-70 in the M/GL region that I'm aware of, and I don't feel like starting one at the moment, I'll note this here.

Construction has started on I-70 to add a lane in each direction between Hilliard–Rome Rd and I-270 on the west side of Columbus. ODOT hasn't made any renderings or schematics conveniently available to the public, so I'm not sure exactly what the final configuration will look like.

I'm not going through 900 pages of PDFs to get specifics, but here are the plans: ftp://ftp.dot.state.oh.us/pub/Districts/D06/download/FRA-70-3.41%20(PID%2025594)/FRA-70-0341%20PDF_8-4-2015.pdf
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 06:42:27 PM by 6a »
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vtk

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2015, 12:05:37 AM »

I'm not going through 900 pages of PDFs to get specifics, but here are the plans: ftp://ftp.dot.state.oh.us/pub/Districts/D06/download/FRA-70-3.41%20(PID%2025594)/FRA-70-0341%20PDF_8-4-2015.pdf

Okay, I skimmed the whole thing. Thanks for the link.

Some specifics:
  • The project includes some resurfacing for a couple of miles west of the Hilliard–Rome Rd interchange where no widening will occur.
  • The loop ramp from southbound Hilliard–Rome Rd will form a new lane on I-70 eastbound; the ramp from northbound Hilliard–Rome Rd will merge with that.
  • The right two lanes of eastbound I-70 will split from the mainline (leaving two through lanes), then split from each other, one lane each going north and south on I-270.
  • Where the ramp from I-270 north and south join I-70 eastbound, there will be no merge, making a total of five lanes towards the Wilson Rd interchange.
  • The eastbound exit to Wilson Rd will be exit-only.
  • I didn't seem to retain much information about westbound lane counts in the final configuration. It's late. But I'm pretty sure it will be essentially unchanged from the east end of the project all the way until the ramp from southbound I-270 joins. (During one of the construction phases, things will be a little goofy between Wilson Rd and the I-270 mainline.)
  • During one phase of construction, there will be three lanes each eastbound and westbound, all on the westbound side of the I-70 centerline, from west of the railroad yard overpass to the east edge of the I-270 interchange. This means I-70's westbound bridges will have to be made wider than what would be necessary to accommodate the final traffic configuration.
  • On one of the pages about utilities, the text forms a plural with an apostrophe: WELL'S, as one item in a list of three; the other two plural list items were correctly written without apostrophes.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 01:20:57 AM by vtk »
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Look, over by the restrooms! It's a girl! It's a boy! No, it's Captain Enby!

…Do you think they're trying to decide which one to use?

GCrites80s

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2015, 11:56:59 AM »

So you won't be able to get on eastbound 70 from Wilson rd. at all? Or is it one of those deals where if you screw up and accidentally exit 70 onto Wilson you will have to turn around at a McDonald's or something?
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6a

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2015, 04:28:13 PM »

I think he means the right lane between 270 and Wilson will be exit only, dropping from five lanes to four after that.
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GCrites80s

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2015, 10:28:28 AM »

ah, 10-4
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