Applying Rules of the Road Elsewhere

[abefroman329]

Seems to me you don't have much choice other than to push them out of the way in that situation.

I think that's fine.  It's also acceptable to push them out of the way when they take one step into a Metro car and then stop, blocking everyone behind them from getting into the car.

Why this only happens in DC, I'll never know.  I have never observed it in NYC or Chicago.

[1995hoo]

Seems to me you don't have much choice other than to push them out of the way in that situation.

I think that's fine.  It's also acceptable to push them out of the way when they take one step into a Metro car and then stop, blocking everyone behind them from getting into the car.

Why this only happens in DC, I'll never know.  I have never observed it in NYC or Chicago.

I had to shove a guy out of the way once when he refused to move out of the way to let me off the train even after I said "excuse me"  and "please let me out."  He wasn't getting off at that stop and I guess he was afraid to step off the train to let people out.

[inkyatari]

Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs.  I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.

It's illegal for a cyclist to just go right through a stop sign in Illinois, as far as I am aware.  I always stop.  In Illinois, it's legal for a bicycle to go through a traffic control signal if they've been waiting for 3 minutes, and it is safe to proceed.

As for the escalator..  My opinion on the subject is probably unpopular, so I'm not going to say it here.

I'm sure it's illegal, but if bicyclists were actually getting ticketed for it, they wouldn't be doing it. It's only an issue when the car doesn't see the cyclist and turns the cyclist into Hamburger Helper.

The superiority that drivers have over cyclists really angers me, but then I see cyclists doing very stupid shit, and then I can't help get even more angry at them.  I always obey the rules of the road, except when obeying puts my life in danger.

[abefroman329]

Seems to me you don't have much choice other than to push them out of the way in that situation.

I think that's fine.  It's also acceptable to push them out of the way when they take one step into a Metro car and then stop, blocking everyone behind them from getting into the car.

Why this only happens in DC, I'll never know.  I have never observed it in NYC or Chicago.

I had to shove a guy out of the way once when he refused to move out of the way to let me off the train even after I said "excuse me"  and "please let me out."  He wasn't getting off at that stop and I guess he was afraid to step off the train to let people out.

If you step off the train to let people off, you have to be really aggressive with ensuring a new passenger doesn't take your spot.  That is also something I haven't encountered elsewhere.

[abefroman329]

Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs.  I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.

It's illegal for a cyclist to just go right through a stop sign in Illinois, as far as I am aware.  I always stop.  In Illinois, it's legal for a bicycle to go through a traffic control signal if they've been waiting for 3 minutes, and it is safe to proceed.

As for the escalator..  My opinion on the subject is probably unpopular, so I'm not going to say it here.

I'm sure it's illegal, but if bicyclists were actually getting ticketed for it, they wouldn't be doing it. It's only an issue when the car doesn't see the cyclist and turns the cyclist into Hamburger Helper.

The superiority that drivers have over cyclists really angers me, but then I see cyclists doing very stupid shit, and then I can't help get even more angry at them.  I always obey the rules of the road, except when obeying puts my life in danger.

Right.  I don't advocate for drivers running cyclists off the road or otherwise endangering their health, and I don't advocate for cyclists who carry their bike locks on their bikes to use as weapons against cars.

[jeffandnicole]

Seems to me you don’t have much choice other than to push them out of the way in that situation.

I think that's fine.  It's also acceptable to push them out of the way when they take one step into a Metro car and then stop, blocking everyone behind them from getting into the car.

Why this only happens in DC, I'll never know.  I have never observed it in NYC or Chicago.

I had to shove a guy out of the way once when he refused to move out of the way to let me off the train even after I said “excuse me” and “please let me out.” He wasn’t getting off at that stop and I guess he was afraid to step off the train to let people out.

If you step off the train to let people off, you have to be really aggressive with ensuring a new passenger doesn't take your spot.  That is also something I haven't encountered elsewhere.

Unless it's a specifically reserved seat, it's not "your spot". 

And if you're standing in an area where you have to get off the train to let people off, chances are you aren't supposed to be standing in that spot to begin with. 

And if the train was that crowded that it was the only spot available, and you had to move to let people off, then that means you can re-enter the train and move further in to a spot that's not by the door, in the way of others.

[briantroutman]

Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs.  I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.

As one member of what seems to be a sorrowfully small minority of law-abiding bicyclists, I agree with you. But I'd argue that made a rather revealing mistake by posting that item to this thread (Applying Rules of the Road Elsewhere). Cyclists aren't elsewhere–they're on the same road as motorists and bound by the same laws. So of course, every STOP, every DO NOT ENTER, every SPEED LIMIT 15 applies every bit as much to a bicyclist as it does to someone behind the wheel of a car. And in my opinion, as long as Americans keep thinking of cyclists as something other than what they are–operators of vehicles–we won't be in a position to take cycling seriously as a mode of functional transportation. Cyclists are condemned to being "kids playing with their toys" –simultaneously above the law and beneath the respect of motorists and transportation officials.

[inkyatari]

As one member of what seems to be a sorrowfully small minority of law-abiding bicyclists, I agree with you. But I'd argue that made a rather revealing mistake by posting that item to this thread (Applying Rules of the Road Elsewhere). Cyclists aren't elsewhere–they're on the same road as motorists and bound by the same laws. So of course, every STOP, every DO NOT ENTER, every SPEED LIMIT 15 applies every bit as much to a bicyclist as it does to someone behind the wheel of a car. And in my opinion, as long as Americans keep thinking of cyclists as something other than what they are–operators of vehicles–we won't be in a position to take cycling seriously as a mode of functional transportation. Cyclists are condemned to being "kids playing with their toys" –simultaneously above the law and beneath the respect of motorists and transportation officials.

[abefroman329]

And if you're standing in an area where you have to get off the train to let people off, chances are you aren't supposed to be standing in that spot to begin with.

Nonsense - there is no rule against standing in the doorway or the vestibule.

And if the train was that crowded that it was the only spot available, and you had to move to let people off, then that means you can re-enter the train and move further in to a spot that's not by the door, in the way of others.

What I'm talking about specifically is:

(1) I step off to let people out
(2) Everyone getting off at that stop gets off
(3) A new rider steps on the train before I do

Sadly, it's a sterling example of the me-first mentality many Washingtonians have.

[webny99]

Supermarkets and wherever you would find shopping carts.  In what insane universe do people think it's ok to just park the shopping cart in the middle of the aisle.  And not just once, but multiple times during the grocery trip, and each and every time they shop?

I hadn't even thought of grocery stores when I started this thread. But yeah, that really bothers me as well. Wegmans can get really busy, so even with a lot of shoppers using the smaller carts, I think some of the main aisle junctions need to be stoplight-controlled (as opposed to "crash-prone modern roundabouts")

Walmart often sets up their main aisles with a "median" of pallets in the center of them. It stresses me out when people don't keep right of them.

Wegmans does this too, primarily on the main aisle perpendicular to the checkouts. I'm sure the same people that do this are the ones I saw left-lane camping on the freeway ten minutes prior. Whenever someone's slow or stopped (or coming towards me) on my side, I have to switch sides and start weaving with the cross traffic, which is annoying as heck 

[webny99]

I'm pretty much the opposite in hallways: get to my destination as fast as I can without slowing down anyone else, even if it means weaving between people.

This is my exact strategy; in the hall at school, in the airport, and when I'm out for a walk or jog.

[jeffandnicole]

And if you're standing in an area where you have to get off the train to let people off, chances are you aren't supposed to be standing in that spot to begin with.

Nonsense - there is no rule against standing in the doorway or the vestibule.

And if the train was that crowded that it was the only spot available, and you had to move to let people off, then that means you can re-enter the train and move further in to a spot that's not by the door, in the way of others.

What I'm talking about specifically is:

(1) I step off to let people out
(2) Everyone getting off at that stop gets off
(3) A new rider steps on the train before I do

Sadly, it's a sterling example of the me-first mentality many Washingtonians have.

And standing in the vestibule because there's no rule against it ISN'T an example of me-first mentality?

I'm still not understanding how you can manage to let "everyone off" (as in, plural), then "a new rider" gets on before you do (as in, singular), and you can't get to a seat or away from the doors.  How does the other rider get on first anyway if you're standing by the door?

Sounds like an issue one causes to oneself.

[abefroman329]

I'm still not understanding how you can manage to let "everyone off" (as in, plural), then "a new rider" gets on before you do (as in, singular), and you can't get to a seat or away from the doors.  How does the other rider get on first anyway if you're standing by the door?

Because they walk on immediately after the last rider exits the train, blowing past all the people who had to get off the train to let others off and are waiting to get back on.

[index]

I'm pretty much the opposite in hallways: get to my destination as fast as I can without slowing down anyone else, even if it means weaving between people.

Very much the same for me, in most circumstances. Yesterday, just as my school had let out, a massive downpour initiated. Rather than getting to their cars and buses, everyone was crowded around the covered walkways, not bothering to step an inch out into the rain, as if it was a passing train or red light. Wanting to actually get home, (the bus isn't waiting on me) I had to part the red sea and pretty much squeeze between everybody, which took ages just to get through like five feet of people. To me, getting to where I need to go, ASAP, regardless of how urgent or non-urgent, is a priority for me. Any slower and I'll blow my top off.


In another semi-relevant situation, when I was in seventh grade, the same group of people every single day would hold up the lunch line. They'd gather up in a circle and just talk, paying absolutely no attention to the mass of people behind them and the massive void of empty line space in front of them, despite several people's requests for them to get out of the way. Eventually, people, including me, got fed up with this and simply cut in line. Then, the group of people started to complain that people were cutting them. What do you expect?

[kalvado]

Regarding grocery stores, I sometimes joke that Wegmans needs roundabouts at the aisle intersections. I slow down and crane my neck to ensure it's clear when I'm coming out of the end of an aisle. Lots of people (seems like most of them women) don't–they just barrel around the corner. I guess it's inconceivable to them that anyone might be going in a different direction. I suppose this is hardly unique to grocery stores, though–same thing happens with people who plant themselves directly in front of elevator doors or subway car doors to wait to board because obviously nobody could possibly want to get off.

One thing that surprises me is that most of those in local grocery store have to drive to get to the store - and have to have a basic idea of how traffic control works. SOmehow everyone keeps forgetting that once inside the building.

[20160805]

I would love to send people to county jail for a few days for having no spatial awareness. /s, because someone here will probably take that literally


Seriously though, people who have no spatial awareness make my blood boil. Stop in hallways, on sidewalks, or in doorways to have a conversation? Don't do it. Walking with friends and blocking an entire sidewalk or hallway? Don't do it. Sudden stopping is annoying, keep it up people, I don't want to slam into you because you felt the need to have some public display of affection out of nowhere in the middle of the hallway.


What takes the cake for the world's worst spatial awareness is when someone's doing all of this and listening to music. There's someone at my school who stands in the doorway every single morning, waiting for her friend, funneling musical garbage into her ears and staring down at her phone, blissfully unaware of her surroundings. She makes no attempt to check if her friend is there or not, so she'll spend a while standing in the door, unable to hear people yelling at her to please move, over and over. This makes me wonder, if she drives, and if so, how much does she text and drive? If she has spatial awareness that bad, she must be bad at that too.

Exactly why I was prone to frequent bursts of hallway rage in high school.  That place was a bloody zoo.

[US 89]

In my high school, everyone kept right when walking in the halls and on the stairs. Otherwise, you would get run over or at least bumped into every time you changed classes. Everyone who didn’t keep right was either a brand-new freshman, an idiot, or had some sort of mental disability.
Sometimes if there were a lot of people coming towards me causing difficulty for me to make a left turn, I’d do a CFI-type left. I’d cross oncoming traffic about 20 feet before my turn and briefly walk on the far left side next to the wall.

The worst was big groups of girls stopped talking in the middle of the hallway (or worse, going somewhere but taking up so much space I couldn’t pass them). I cringe just thinking about it...

[Scott5114]

Seriously though, people who have no spatial awareness make my blood boil. Stop in hallways, on sidewalks, or in doorways to have a conversation? Don't do it. Walking with friends and blocking an entire sidewalk or hallway? Don't do it. Sudden stopping is annoying, keep it up people, I don't want to slam into you because you felt the need to have some public display of affection out of nowhere in the middle of the hallway.

You would hate a casino.

What takes the cake for the world's worst spatial awareness is when someone's doing all of this and listening to music. There's someone at my school who stands in the doorway every single morning, waiting for her friend, funneling musical garbage into her ears and staring down at her phone, blissfully unaware of her surroundings. She makes no attempt to check if her friend is there or not, so she'll spend a while standing in the door, unable to hear people yelling at her to please move, over and over. This makes me wonder, if she drives, and if so, how much does she text and drive? If she has spatial awareness that bad, she must be bad at that too.

Does anyone ever think to tap her on the shoulder?

[english si]

You know the "stand right, walk left" rules on escalators in subway systems people have been talking about.

It's rather funny because on the London Underground, despite traffic being on the other side of the road, to my knowledge it is "stand right, walk left" there.

Yep - it is.

We're meant to default to walking on the right on roads in the UK - because walking into oncoming traffic is safer than having traffic approach from behind you. Though I gather the London Underground escalator thing is actually because Yerkes was a Yank.


When I went to Disney World, the guidebook we had suggested that any time a line split to go left as Americans drive on the right and would take the right fork more often than not. Other than a couple of times, it didn't noticeably work - because the lines started behind the splits, and people aren't stupid enough to wait to go right, when they can go left and get to the same destination...

[1995hoo]

This thread, and especially Scott5114's comment about tapping someone on the shoulder, prompts me to think of how so many people no longer say "excuse me"  or the like–they'll stand and wait or contort themselves into weird positions to try to squeeze around people, but God forbid they talk to strangers. Sometimes makes me wonder if their parents taught them too well as kids regarding that issue.

[Scott5114]

This thread, and especially Scott5114's comment about tapping someone on the shoulder, prompts me to think of how so many people no longer say "excuse me"  or the like–they'll stand and wait or contort themselves into weird positions to try to squeeze around people, but God forbid they talk to strangers. Sometimes makes me wonder if their parents taught them too well as kids regarding that issue.

Now, I don't really do the "excuse me" thing anymore because people don't move out of the way when you say it. Of course, my experience is tainted because I work in a casino, which has a lovely confluence of clientele skewing toward the hard-of-hearing, noisiness, and alcohol use. By the time I can get "excuse me" through to a customer (and the next one after that, and...), I could have just gone 4 aisles out of the way and be at my destination.

Then again, I understand people are there as a leisure activity and that while I may have somewhere to be, they do not, and they're the ones paying the bills, so trying to communicate "get out of the damn way" in any sort of fashion, polite or no, is awkward at best.

Happy birthday!

[kalvado]

Does anyone ever think to tap her on the shoulder?

Wouldn't that be considered a sexual harassment these days?

[abefroman329]

This thread, and especially Scott5114's comment about tapping someone on the shoulder, prompts me to think of how so many people no longer say "excuse me"  or the like–they'll stand and wait or contort themselves into weird positions to try to squeeze around people, but God forbid they talk to strangers. Sometimes makes me wonder if their parents taught them too well as kids regarding that issue.

I dunno, I was taught not to talk to strangers and I'll still yell "excuse me" when I'm trying to get off a train and no one is moving.  But I'm rapidly losing patience as I get older.

[index]

This thread, and especially Scott5114's comment about tapping someone on the shoulder, prompts me to think of how so many people no longer say "excuse me"  or the like–they'll stand and wait or contort themselves into weird positions to try to squeeze around people, but God forbid they talk to strangers. Sometimes makes me wonder if their parents taught them too well as kids regarding that issue.

Definitely use that, most of the time I have to contort myself into a weird position anyway though.


As for tapping people on the shoulder I really, really do not like touching people or getting touched (it makes me anxious and shivery and I do not know why) so a lot of the time I'll just wait.

[kalvado]

This thread, and especially Scott5114's comment about tapping someone on the shoulder, prompts me to think of how so many people no longer say "excuse me"  or the like–they'll stand and wait or contort themselves into weird positions to try to squeeze around people, but God forbid they talk to strangers. Sometimes makes me wonder if their parents taught them too well as kids regarding that issue.

I dunno, I was taught not to talk to strangers and I'll still yell "excuse me" when I'm trying to get off a train and no one is moving.  But I'm rapidly losing patience as I get older.

You need to stay polite. Think about "excuse me" being an apology for shoving them against the wall. < /cynical>