Pittsburgh - August 10th, 2019

Started by noelbotevera, August 30, 2018, 02:13:08 PM

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Postmeet Activities

Kennywood Amusement Park
1 (16.7%)
Bridge tour (Three Sisters, West End)
4 (66.7%)
Tunnel tour (Wabash, Armstrong, Liberty)
4 (66.7%)
Nike missile sites
2 (33.3%)
Monroeville Mall
4 (66.7%)
Bigelow Mosaic (in case I choose not to have it on the tour)
3 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 6

noelbotevera

#50
Okay, so far I might have an idea of a route.

-Tour the ramps of the interchange; then take pictures of the interchange - there's some businesses near Baldwin Road (here) that should give a good view.

-Drive to Primantis in Homestead via PA 837

-Lunch; park our cars here

-After lunch, drive to PA 28, via I-376/I-579 - I think there's still old signs, and there's some rotatable signs on I-376

-Tour PA 28 reconstruction; u-turn at the 40th Street Bridge by exit 3A

-Drive PA 28 south back to I-376 via I-279

-Take I-376 west to PA 576; clinch it

-If time permits, maybe take a second look at the abandoned ramps in Pittsburgh International, or at the very least clinch Business I-376

-If PA 576 isn't open, tour construction along Candor Road - if it is, clinch PA 576 to I-79

-Break off. For those who still have cars, post meet dinner somewhere along I-79, or if time permits, check out the Duquesne Incline and dinner in Pittsburgh - for those who don't, drive back to Homestead


A.J. Bertin

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 15, 2018, 04:09:45 PM
Okay, so far I might have an idea of a route.

-Tour the ramps of the interchange; then take pictures of the interchange - there's some businesses near Baldwin Road (here) that should give a good view.

-Drive to Primantis in Homestead via PA 837

-Lunch; park our cars here

-After lunch, drive to PA 28, via I-376/I-579 - I think there's still old signs, and there's some rotatable signs on I-376

-Tour PA 28 reconstruction; u-turn at the 40th Street Bridge by exit 3A

-Drive PA 28 south back to I-376 via I-279

-Take I-376 west to PA 576; clinch it

-If time permits, maybe take a second look at the abandoned ramps in Pittsburgh International, or at the very least clinch Business I-376

-If PA 576 isn't open, tour construction along Candor Road - if it is, clinch PA 576 to I-79

-Break off. For those who still have cars, post meet dinner somewhere along I-79, or if time permits, check out the Duquesne Incline and dinner in Pittsburgh - for those who don't, drive back to Homestead

All of this sounds great!!
-A.J. from Michigan

Roadsguy

The most recent news of the Southern Beltway seems to indicate it won't open until late 2020.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

Alps

Quote from: Roadsguy on September 15, 2018, 05:37:11 PM
The most recent news of the Southern Beltway seems to indicate it won't open until late 2020.
Good. Open roads are boring. Construction is cool.

74/171FAN

Quote from: A.J. Bertin on September 15, 2018, 02:04:14 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 15, 2018, 01:51:50 PM
In regards to winter, there were a lot of attendees at Alex's Delaware meet last December despite snow the day before.

If I were to make a guess, I'd say that most of the attendees probably didn't have to drive too far to get there. In other words, Alex was probably only intending it to be for locals (or semi-locals).

Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 15, 2018, 01:51:50 PM
As long as the weather is fine, a meet in PA may be doable in cold weather.

The kicker is... "as long as the weather is fine". But the problem is, for attendees driving from long distance, it takes longer time to plan, make hotel reservations, request time off work, etc. All those plans can be made, but if the weather is not fine and it's not advisable to drive long distance, all those plans have to be cancelled which is a pain.

None of this is really the point. The guy who is intending to host this meet is looking at July/August... not December.

I understand that.  I just wanted to note that it has been done successfully as of recent.  Oddly enough, I believe HB and cl94 were there so it was more than just locals.

Having stated that, it is definitely outside the norm.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

PAHighways

Quote from: A.J. Bertin on September 15, 2018, 02:04:14 PMIf I were to make a guess, I'd say that most of the attendees probably didn't have to drive too far to get there. In other words, Alex was probably only intending it to be for locals (or semi-locals).

The holiday time, or XMAS SWPA, meets were mainly for locals to take a break and get together.  They were never a big production like a Spring or Summer meet; however, if people outside of Pennsylvania wanted to come, and they have, great, more the merrier.

Quote from: A.J. Bertin on September 15, 2018, 02:04:14 PMThe kicker is... "as long as the weather is fine". But the problem is, for attendees driving from long distance, it takes longer time to plan, make hotel reservations, request time off work, etc. All those plans can be made, but if the weather is not fine and it's not advisable to drive long distance, all those plans have to be cancelled which is a pain.

The nasty winter weather doesn't hit Pennsylvania until after the first of the year, case in point, the January 22, 2016 storm that stranded people on the Turnpike.  The only meet that was almost affected was the 2010 XMAS SWPA, but fortunately the storm didn't hit that day.  Weather can affect meets any time of the year, such as the 2004 Mid-State Meet which took place the day after the remnants of Hurricane Ivan plowed through Pennsylvania.

Quote from: A.J. Bertin on September 15, 2018, 02:04:14 PMNone of this is really the point. The guy who is intending to host this meet is looking at July/August... not December.

And that is why I will not be at the meet.  For me, December is great because we don't have any holiday event at my park, but July and August are our "bread and butter" months.

rickmastfan67

#56
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 15, 2018, 04:09:45 PM
Okay, so far I might have an idea of a route.

-Tour the ramps of the interchange; then take pictures of the interchange - there's some businesses near Baldwin Road (here) that should give a good view.

-Drive to Primantis in Homestead via PA 837

-Lunch; park our cars here

-After lunch, drive to PA 28, via I-376/I-579 - I think there's still old signs, and there's some rotatable signs on I-376

-Tour PA 28 reconstruction; u-turn at the 40th Street Bridge by exit 3A

-Drive PA 28 south back to I-376 via I-279

-Take I-376 west to PA 576; clinch it

-If time permits, maybe take a second look at the abandoned ramps in Pittsburgh International, or at the very least clinch Business I-376

-If PA 576 isn't open, tour construction along Candor Road - if it is, clinch PA 576 to I-79

-Break off. For those who still have cars, post meet dinner somewhere along I-79, or if time permits, check out the Duquesne Incline and dinner in Pittsburgh - for those who don't, drive back to Homestead

The problem here is that most of the stuff you want to visit is well away from the lunch place.  Traffic can be a major issue here in Pittsburgh, especially when you have to factor in the tunnels.  That can be the biggest nightmare, especially trying to get from I-279 onto I-376 to access the Fort Pitt Tunnel.  If you aren't careful, most of the time, you'll be forced off onto West Carson Street.  4 lanes into 2 mainline lanes in an insanely short distance has never been good there.  Can count on only 1 hand how many times the family has never been forced to fight our way over to keep on the Parkway.

Also, with that 'tour' of PA-28, you can't easily 'U-Turn' @ 3A unless you cross the 40th Street Bridge completely.  Best thing there is to go to 3B and U-Turn there, as that allows the left turn @ a traffic light to go back towards SB PA-28, and a lot less trouble as the 40th Street/Butler Street intersection backs up BAD during the day.

Also, PA Turnpike 576 is now cashless.  So, you need to remember to have either an EZ-Pass or you'll be billed in the mail at a higher rate.  At least now there's 2 'free' segments along it do to a brand new 'mainline' toll location.

1 last thing, leaving the cars @ Homestead might not be a great idea, been hearing of a lot of break-ins in that area recently.  Don't want the meet to end on a sour note if somebody's windows are smashed in and have stuff stolen.

A.J. Bertin

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 16, 2018, 03:37:18 AM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 15, 2018, 04:09:45 PM
Okay, so far I might have an idea of a route.

-Tour the ramps of the interchange; then take pictures of the interchange - there's some businesses near Baldwin Road (here) that should give a good view.

-Drive to Primantis in Homestead via PA 837

-Lunch; park our cars here

-After lunch, drive to PA 28, via I-376/I-579 - I think there's still old signs, and there's some rotatable signs on I-376

-Tour PA 28 reconstruction; u-turn at the 40th Street Bridge by exit 3A

-Drive PA 28 south back to I-376 via I-279

-Take I-376 west to PA 576; clinch it

-If time permits, maybe take a second look at the abandoned ramps in Pittsburgh International, or at the very least clinch Business I-376

-If PA 576 isn't open, tour construction along Candor Road - if it is, clinch PA 576 to I-79

-Break off. For those who still have cars, post meet dinner somewhere along I-79, or if time permits, check out the Duquesne Incline and dinner in Pittsburgh - for those who don't, drive back to Homestead

The problem here is that most of the stuff you want to visit is well away from the lunch place.  Traffic can be a major issue here in Pittsburgh, especially when you have to factor in the tunnels.  That can be the biggest nightmare, especially trying to get from I-279 onto I-376 to access the Fort Pitt Tunnel.  If you aren't careful, most of the time, you'll be forced off onto West Carson Street.  4 lanes into 2 mainline lanes in an insanely short distance has never been good there.  Can count on only 1 hand how many times the family has never been forced to fight our way over to keep on the Parkway.

Also, with that 'tour' of PA-28, you can't easily 'U-Turn' @ 3A unless you cross the 40th Street Bridge completely.  Best thing there is to go to 3B and U-Turn there, as that allows the left turn @ a traffic light to go back towards SB PA-28, and a lot less trouble as the 40th Street/Butler Street intersection backs up BAD during the day.

Also, PA Turnpike 576 is now cashless.  So, you need to remember to have either an EZ-Pass or you'll be billed in the mail at a higher rate.  At least now there's 2 'free' segments along it do to a brand new 'mainline' toll location.

1 last thing, leaving the cars @ Homestead might not be a great idea, been hearing of a lot of break-ins in that area recently.  Don't want the meet to end on a sour note if somebody's windows are smashed in and have stuff stolen.

Would you be willing to help him host this meet?
-A.J. from Michigan

rickmastfan67

Quote from: A.J. Bertin on September 16, 2018, 07:55:47 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 16, 2018, 03:37:18 AM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 15, 2018, 04:09:45 PM
Okay, so far I might have an idea of a route.

-Tour the ramps of the interchange; then take pictures of the interchange - there's some businesses near Baldwin Road (here) that should give a good view.

-Drive to Primantis in Homestead via PA 837

-Lunch; park our cars here

-After lunch, drive to PA 28, via I-376/I-579 - I think there's still old signs, and there's some rotatable signs on I-376

-Tour PA 28 reconstruction; u-turn at the 40th Street Bridge by exit 3A

-Drive PA 28 south back to I-376 via I-279

-Take I-376 west to PA 576; clinch it

-If time permits, maybe take a second look at the abandoned ramps in Pittsburgh International, or at the very least clinch Business I-376

-If PA 576 isn't open, tour construction along Candor Road - if it is, clinch PA 576 to I-79

-Break off. For those who still have cars, post meet dinner somewhere along I-79, or if time permits, check out the Duquesne Incline and dinner in Pittsburgh - for those who don't, drive back to Homestead

The problem here is that most of the stuff you want to visit is well away from the lunch place.  Traffic can be a major issue here in Pittsburgh, especially when you have to factor in the tunnels.  That can be the biggest nightmare, especially trying to get from I-279 onto I-376 to access the Fort Pitt Tunnel.  If you aren't careful, most of the time, you'll be forced off onto West Carson Street.  4 lanes into 2 mainline lanes in an insanely short distance has never been good there.  Can count on only 1 hand how many times the family has never been forced to fight our way over to keep on the Parkway.

Also, with that 'tour' of PA-28, you can't easily 'U-Turn' @ 3A unless you cross the 40th Street Bridge completely.  Best thing there is to go to 3B and U-Turn there, as that allows the left turn @ a traffic light to go back towards SB PA-28, and a lot less trouble as the 40th Street/Butler Street intersection backs up BAD during the day.

Also, PA Turnpike 576 is now cashless.  So, you need to remember to have either an EZ-Pass or you'll be billed in the mail at a higher rate.  At least now there's 2 'free' segments along it do to a brand new 'mainline' toll location.

1 last thing, leaving the cars @ Homestead might not be a great idea, been hearing of a lot of break-ins in that area recently.  Don't want the meet to end on a sour note if somebody's windows are smashed in and have stuff stolen.

Would you be willing to help him host this meet?

I could give some suggestions, but that is all.  I've never hosted a meet before (or even attended one), so I wouldn't be the best guy for that job to be honest.

noelbotevera

#59
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 16, 2018, 03:37:18 AM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 15, 2018, 04:09:45 PM
Okay, so far I might have an idea of a route.

-Tour the ramps of the interchange; then take pictures of the interchange - there's some businesses near Baldwin Road (here) that should give a good view.

-Drive to Primantis in Homestead via PA 837

-Lunch; park our cars here

-After lunch, drive to PA 28, via I-376/I-579 - I think there's still old signs, and there's some rotatable signs on I-376

-Tour PA 28 reconstruction; u-turn at the 40th Street Bridge by exit 3A

-Drive PA 28 south back to I-376 via I-279

-Take I-376 west to PA 576; clinch it

-If time permits, maybe take a second look at the abandoned ramps in Pittsburgh International, or at the very least clinch Business I-376

-If PA 576 isn't open, tour construction along Candor Road - if it is, clinch PA 576 to I-79

-Break off. For those who still have cars, post meet dinner somewhere along I-79, or if time permits, check out the Duquesne Incline and dinner in Pittsburgh - for those who don't, drive back to Homestead

The problem here is that most of the stuff you want to visit is well away from the lunch place.  Traffic can be a major issue here in Pittsburgh, especially when you have to factor in the tunnels.  That can be the biggest nightmare, especially trying to get from I-279 onto I-376 to access the Fort Pitt Tunnel.  If you aren't careful, most of the time, you'll be forced off onto West Carson Street.  4 lanes into 2 mainline lanes in an insanely short distance has never been good there.  Can count on only 1 hand how many times the family has never been forced to fight our way over to keep on the Parkway.

Also, with that 'tour' of PA-28, you can't easily 'U-Turn' @ 3A unless you cross the 40th Street Bridge completely.  Best thing there is to go to 3B and U-Turn there, as that allows the left turn @ a traffic light to go back towards SB PA-28, and a lot less trouble as the 40th Street/Butler Street intersection backs up BAD during the day.

Also, PA Turnpike 576 is now cashless.  So, you need to remember to have either an EZ-Pass or you'll be billed in the mail at a higher rate.  At least now there's 2 'free' segments along it do to a brand new 'mainline' toll location.

1 last thing, leaving the cars @ Homestead might not be a great idea, been hearing of a lot of break-ins in that area recently.  Don't want the meet to end on a sour note if somebody's windows are smashed in and have stuff stolen.
Tunnels - I was kind of expecting traffic, but to be honest, I've never been in Pittsburgh at a bad time. Perhaps I could detour onto other bridges, but crossing the Monongahela River seems to be a bit of a tall order (there's only 5 bridges between Fort Duquesne and Oakland). I know that the Liberty Bridge can be a problem, but what about 10th Street or Smithfield Street Bridge to the Wabash Tunnel, then get back to I-376 @ Saw Mill Run Boulevard?

PA 28 - Honestly, I wasn't really thinking too well there. I looked at the area on Google Maps and saw a road called "Riverfront Drive"; thought we could turn off there.

Homestead - Eh, the Primantis was under a bridge. To be honest, GSV doesn't show anything particularly wrong in the area. If it comes to it, I'll probably change the lunch place to somewhere near Etna. It looks more convenient (drive from PA 837/885 up to lunch via back roads).

Lunch ideas (anybody can chime in):
Cop Out Pierogies
Restaurants along Canal Street in Sharpsburg (my idea is that anyone can pick a restaurant, and when we finish lunch, we just find somewhere to meet up and drive out)
Silky Crow's Nest
Eat 'N Park

CanesFan27

honestly, why don't you table the idea until around january and february...it'll give you time to clearly think out an agenda - maybe talk to the right people behind the scenes to plan this out and then come back with a definite idea for a meet. 

I really think you need to go with your family to Pittsburgh and get an idea of what each of your ideas work and don't work -it may look ok or cool on a map but there may not be any real access.  (for example, the 837/885 Glenwood bridge area can be confusing and if you are not familiar how to get there it's not easy to turn around and go back if you take the wrong turn.)

I would seriously focus on one area - because Pittsburgh is a place you can't easily get there from here - and not try to showcase everything.  That's why we had anywhere from 2-3 Pittsburgh meets a year from 1999-2008 or so.


A.J. Bertin

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 18, 2018, 06:30:00 PM
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on September 16, 2018, 07:55:47 AM
Would you be willing to help him host this meet?

I could give some suggestions, but that is all.  I've never hosted a meet before (or even attended one), so I wouldn't be the best guy for that job to be honest.

But you know the area. Even if you've never attended a meet, it sounds like you have a bit of an idea of how road meets work.
-A.J. from Michigan

A.J. Bertin

Quote from: CanesFan27 on September 18, 2018, 08:10:37 PM
honestly, why don't you table the idea until around january and february...it'll give you time to clearly think out an agenda - maybe talk to the right people behind the scenes to plan this out and then come back with a definite idea for a meet. 

I really think you need to go with your family to Pittsburgh and get an idea of what each of your ideas work and don't work -it may look ok or cool on a map but there may not be any real access.  (for example, the 837/885 Glenwood bridge area can be confusing and if you are not familiar how to get there it's not easy to turn around and go back if you take the wrong turn.)

I would seriously focus on one area - because Pittsburgh is a place you can't easily get there from here - and not try to showcase everything.  That's why we had anywhere from 2-3 Pittsburgh meets a year from 1999-2008 or so.

It sounds like you're trying too hard to tell him what to do. It's his meet! I still think you should try and help him host it or something. :)
-A.J. from Michigan

CanesFan27

AJ,

It's because I grew up there and know what does and does not work logistically and otherwise.  Jeff and/or I did meets for years there and didn't worry about the traveling circus of meet attendees planning things nearly 12 months out. 

Take a step back and look at the logistical issues myself, jeff, and PHLBOS pointed out.  They are valid and from experience. This is going to sound harsher than it is, but If this meet was presented as is I wouldn't go out of my way to go back home to PA and attend it.  Let's be realistic versus being blinded by the idea of just wanting any excuse to have or go to a Pittsburgh area meet. 

This is why I suggest doing homework and having something solid vs. 30+ changes out in the open between now and next summer.  If the agenda keeps changing - people aren't going to know what to expect or where to go and most likely it'll fall apart mid tour.

I dont think you or anyone would want that to happen.


noelbotevera

Quote from: CanesFan27 on September 18, 2018, 08:10:37 PM
honestly, why don't you table the idea until around january and february...it'll give you time to clearly think out an agenda - maybe talk to the right people behind the scenes to plan this out and then come back with a definite idea for a meet. 

I really think you need to go with your family to Pittsburgh and get an idea of what each of your ideas work and don't work -it may look ok or cool on a map but there may not be any real access.  (for example, the 837/885 Glenwood bridge area can be confusing and if you are not familiar how to get there it's not easy to turn around and go back if you take the wrong turn.)

I would seriously focus on one area - because Pittsburgh is a place you can't easily get there from here - and not try to showcase everything.  That's why we had anywhere from 2-3 Pittsburgh meets a year from 1999-2008 or so.
I think planning it out this far out was a good call. At the very least, I'd get more responses by announcing it earlier, and people who plan to attend can check their calendars and plan for days off ASAP, so higher attendance.

Scouting I can get help with. I can speak to locals about typical traffic patterns, or what might be good ideas. Besides, my family personally doesn't have the time to go to Pittsburgh. This is the best way I can scout, and there's meets out there that have been scouted this way.

Okay, you have a point there. I'm aware of traffic, and I should be aware of sports games going on around this time, but aside from major holidays like Independence Day, I'd say I could be able to cover everything within a reasonable amount of time and with reasonable traffic.

Honestly, I'm expecting things to go wrong. It's my first meet, but I'm going to do my best with organizing this. If things don't go to plan - oh well! I could just improvise something.

rickmastfan67

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 18, 2018, 07:48:17 PM
Tunnels - I was kind of expecting traffic, but to be honest, I've never been in Pittsburgh at a bad time. Perhaps I could detour onto other bridges, but crossing the Monongahela River seems to be a bit of a tall order (there's only 5 bridges between Fort Duquesne and Oakland). I know that the Liberty Bridge can be a problem, but what about 10th Street or Smithfield Street Bridge to the Wabash Tunnel, then get back to I-376 @ Saw Mill Run Boulevard?

Listen to KDKA-1020 during the morning rush/evening rush for their traffic reports.  9/10 times the tunnels with be front and center in the reports about backups.  That will give you a general idea of traffic issues around here (would have suggested listening to KQV-1410 instead, but they are no more, but maybe coming back this fall).

As for possibly using the Wabash Tunnel, it depends on the time of day as to then know which direction it's open for.  Not knowing what time the group might be going thru will hurt on trying to predict which route might be the best and have the least amount of issues due to how finicky the traffic around here can be.

jpi

Here is my take on this, Noel I think its great you want to host a meet especially at your age but I really think you should hold of until you get your DL this way you can take a day and venture out to the area and scout the area a little better. When I got my DL I was 17 and had a 71 Maverick that hardly left York County and within 2 weeks I was driving that car to places in PA I had never been to in my life. I personally travel to the Monroeville area of Pittsburgh at least 3 times a year but its for my other hobby and I usually don't have time to do any exploring or scouting in the area for any type of meet and  in the past I always figured this is Adam and Jeff's primary area of PA and I would start doing more south central PA area meets like I did in 2016 and 2018.

Again you are a bright and ambitious kid but the Pittsburgh area is not going away anytime soon  ;-)
Jason Ilyes
JPI
Lebanon, TN
Home Of The Barrel

hbelkins

Re: Some comment upstream.

Don't rely on a map for route planning. Go and drive it yourself and double-check that the route works.

I can take any number of maps of Kentucky locations, find a marked route, and then when I get there, discover that it's a one-lane gravel road on the side of a mountain, or somewhere that turns in certain directions aren't permitted, and so on. That's why I tend to prefer events that are planned by people with great familiarity with the area, or can easily scout the locations. I've been doing meets for a few years, but would not think of hosting one in Knoxville because I don't know the turf.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

vdeane

Regarding the Wabash Tunnel, I wouldn't think it would be too unpredictable, since it's open outbound weekends during the day, and aside from the recent Golden Spike meet, I've never heard of a roadmeet happening at a time that wasn't during the day on a Saturday or sometimes Sunday.

Although, now that I've looked this up... why does the Wabash Tunnel flip directions anyways?  I can understand during rush hour if you wanted to have two lanes going through, but looking at the area, that doesn't appear to be what happens at all.  If only one lane is going to be used, why not let both directions go?  It's even striped with a double yellow.

Regarding tour itinerary, things being to far, etc., part of me wonders if this conflict might be the difference between the roadmeets of old and the roadmeets of new.  In the roadmeets of old, it was typically a group of 5-10 people (most of them in day trip range), lunch was at noon, and the tour wrapped up around 4 or 5.  In modern meets, on the other hand, group sizes of 20+ are not uncommon, many of them traveling long distances to attend (the majority, at many meets, perhaps most), lunch is often at 11, and the tour tends to go until 6 or 7, sometimes with a post-meet dinner.  Modern meets also tend to have typed up directions given to all attendees, with a separate navigator in each car, and shared phone numbers, rather than the caravan of 2-3 cars playing "follow the leader" in the meets of old.  You still don't want to have too much/too far away (the Salamanca meet didn't wrap until after 8, and that was AFTER cutting out a decent chunk of the tour - ironic, given that the directions said it would be a short meet; granted, that meet started at noon, not 11).  I've found that Google Maps live times tend to be reasonably accurate, so if you check those on a day similar to the meet, it will probably be fine, though in person is always better than Google Maps when possible (though I scouted Corning/Elmira over street view, and made revisions to Burlington over street view and it worked (although both meets were done with at least some consultation with people who knew the area more)).  I wouldn't worry about having the agenda 100% nailed down before the meet is even announced, though it's good to have at least a good idea of what you'd see so people can gauge if they're interested and make preliminary travel plans; in the era of printed directions, if you have the route nailed down and posted at least a week before the meet with clear, printed directions for everyone available at the meet, things should be fine on that front.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

A.J. Bertin

Quote from: CanesFan27 on September 18, 2018, 09:04:36 PM
AJ,

It's because I grew up there and know what does and does not work logistically and otherwise.  Jeff and/or I did meets for years there and didn't worry about the traveling circus of meet attendees planning things nearly 12 months out. 

Take a step back and look at the logistical issues myself, jeff, and PHLBOS pointed out.  They are valid and from experience. This is going to sound harsher than it is, but If this meet was presented as is I wouldn't go out of my way to go back home to PA and attend it.  Let's be realistic versus being blinded by the idea of just wanting any excuse to have or go to a Pittsburgh area meet. 

This is why I suggest doing homework and having something solid vs. 30+ changes out in the open between now and next summer.  If the agenda keeps changing - people aren't going to know what to expect or where to go and most likely it'll fall apart mid tour.

I dont think you or anyone would want that to happen.

I guess I'd rather see that happen than have there be no meet at all. The kid should be allowed to host his meet how he wants to, and he should be allowed to make his own mistakes and learn from those mistakes. If people don't trust him because he's young and because this is his first meet, no one is forcing them to attend. This situation is definitely unconventional because he's too young to even have a driver's license, but if this is something he's wanting to do, none of us should get in the way of him doing this.
-A.J. from Michigan

noelbotevera

#70
I suppose I should state my opinion about the matter.

I don't want to attack anyone here - I respect everyone's view here, and I appreciate your opinions everyone has given here.

I can see why people think I'm not the best fit. I'm much too young, I can't even scout the area, and I've rarely been to Pittsburgh. There's other meets that people have done in the area before, and those meets will undoubtedly be better than mine in terms of execution or ideas. I will respect that - if anyone feels like they don't want to go, then I will allow them. Perhaps the whole meet was a fault on my part - I was simply too ambitious to try and host a meet this young and this far in advance. Perhaps waiting a while might be a good idea. Perhaps I should've researched more about hosting.

However, I will admit I was encouraged to try hosting thanks to Alps. Some have mixed feelings about him, but that's not the point. I simply saw that Pittsburgh was an area nobody had done in a while, and I was not aware of any meets centered around the Pittsburgh area. I decided to try my hand at it, and decided to try my first meet. Everyone's gotta start somewhere - whether it ends up being a total disaster or a runaway hit, then fine. Mistakes to learn from next time. Things I can improve on.

Honestly, I couldn't think of any other areas. Philadelphia has been done to death, so has cities like Baltimore, areas like Southern PA, and roads like Corridor H. This was the best I can do. I'm aware that I've neglected things like route planning - and that's my fault. I'm aware that I could improve in different areas. Even if everybody here has been to Pittsburgh or have done previous meets in the past, and all I'm doing is retreading old ground, well here's my take on it. It won't be a perfect take, but there's no such thing as the perfect road meet.

As for me, I'll call it an experiment. And I like to experiment.

TheHighwayMan3561

#71
I'm gonna say something harsh myself, which is I feel some of the whining in this thread is just another instance of old-guard roadgeeks feeling miffed that other people are treading on their territory looking to try something new or different, believing they already did it best and no one else need bother.

It's nothing personal. It's something that occurs regularly on this board.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Brandon

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 19, 2018, 03:47:42 PM
As for me, I'll call it an experiment. And I like to experiment.

Please, by all means, experiment.  At this stage, it's a thought exercise until you can make it come to fruition.  If you feel you can host one, host one (and this is coming from a very old guard roadgeek from the 1990s mtr days).  I usually go through a few iterations of the route and things to see/do before I finally get a workable meet with a workable route.  They're not easy to put together, and can be a bit exhausting for the host (like herding cats), but can be very rewarding when the go off well.  A few things that might help as you go through the planning process (based on my own experience):

1. Pick a concise area to hold the route with a restaurant and parking near the start of said route.  Some roadgeeks have been known to have people cross and entire metro area to see different sights (St. Louis comes to mind), having people spend a lot of time in a vehicle.  I prefer to keep vehicle time to a minimum, no more than 10-15 minutes between stops if I can (the more rural they are, the further the stops will be).

2. Choose a variety of sights to see.  Some of us are into old stuff, some into new construction, some into odd signage, and others into bridges.  You can even pick an interesting non-road-related item to see (good vantage point, historical marker, etc.).

3. Pick a restaurant that can serve a decent number of people quickly.  Many pick sit-down type restaurants, but they need to be careful to have reservations ahead of time for some of them.  My last one was a BBQ joint that has counter service.  It made it much easier to order and find seats without the need for a reservation.

4. Make sure you are the lead vehicle, or are in the lead vehicle giving instructions to the driver.  Along those lines, publish an itinerary of the route and the stops being made.

5. If you do a Facebook invite, make it "Public" and not "Private".  I made that mistake once.  A "Public" invite allows those you invite to invite others.

6. I would suggest keeping the meet down to 6-7 hours total, with no more than 5 hours for the tour.  People tend to get restless at that point.

7. Have a means to herd the roadgeek back to their vehicles at each stop so you can continue in a timely manner.  A cattle prod works well. /sarc.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

A.J. Bertin

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 19, 2018, 03:47:42 PM
Perhaps the whole meet was a fault on my part - I was simply too ambitious to try and host a meet this young and this far in advance. Perhaps waiting a while might be a good idea. Perhaps I should've researched more about hosting.

But this is something you want to do. You have nothing to fault yourself about. Too ambitious? Maybe but don't let that stop you.

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 19, 2018, 03:47:42 PM
However, I will admit I was encouraged to try hosting thanks to Alps. Some have mixed feelings about him, but that's not the point.

Steve is a good guy. In a way, he's kind of inspired/encouraged me to host my first do-it-yourself "city meet" in Providence next spring. I'm experimenting with something new myself and have gotten a lot of support for my idea.

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 19, 2018, 03:47:42 PM
I simply saw that Pittsburgh was an area nobody had done in a while, and I was not aware of any meets centered around the Pittsburgh area.

That's good enough of a reason.

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 19, 2018, 03:47:42 PM
I decided to try my hand at it, and decided to try my first meet. Everyone's gotta start somewhere - whether it ends up being a total disaster or a runaway hit, then fine. Mistakes to learn from next time. Things I can improve on.

Absolutely.

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 19, 2018, 03:47:42 PM
I'm aware that I've neglected things like route planning - and that's my fault. I'm aware that I could improve in different areas.

But that's okay. It's only your first meet!

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 19, 2018, 03:47:42 PM
It won't be a perfect take, but there's no such thing as the perfect road meet.

That's right.

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 19, 2018, 03:47:42 PM
As for me, I'll call it an experiment. And I like to experiment.

And you shouldn't allow the naysayers in this thread to stop you from experimenting. They don't have to participate in your experiment if they don't want to. I definitely want to be there as long as I have no scheduling conflicts. (By the way, I haven't voted in the date poll because, at this point, I can't think of any reason why any of the weekends won't work.)
-A.J. from Michigan

A.J. Bertin

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 19, 2018, 04:26:00 PM
I'm gonna say something harsh myself, which is I feel some of the whining in this thread is just another instance of old-guard roadgeeks feeling miffed that other people are treading on their territory looking to try something new or different, believing they already did it best and no one else need bother.

I agree with you, Patrick.

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 19, 2018, 04:26:00 PM
It's something that occurs regularly on this board.

That's unfortunate. We all share a common interest and I consider us all to be one community. We should be welcoming newer (and younger, in this case) members into our community and encouraging them to pursue their interests. We shouldn't be discouraging them. If I were in his shoes and I felt my ideas weren't welcome, it would turn me off from wanting to be part of the community. We need to be positive and encouraging.
-A.J. from Michigan



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